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Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
ryzouken wrote:
I could see canticles getting similar treatment to command protocols from the cron dex.

On the subject of arc rifles being good: breachers have heavier versions of them as their basic gun, so you might look at them to spam. Even meshes with the army of renown, I guess.

Hmmm. Those are HEAVY Arc Rifles. Arc Rifles went from D1 Dd3 against vehicles to Dd3 D3 against vehicles. The Heavy Arc Rifles are currently Dd3 Dd6 against vehicles. Could they possibly go to Dd6 D6 against vehicles?
flat 6 seems a bit much? d3+3 would probably be my guess.
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Ordana wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
ryzouken wrote:
I could see canticles getting similar treatment to command protocols from the cron dex.

On the subject of arc rifles being good: breachers have heavier versions of them as their basic gun, so you might look at them to spam. Even meshes with the army of renown, I guess.

Hmmm. Those are HEAVY Arc Rifles. Arc Rifles went from D1 Dd3 against vehicles to Dd3 D3 against vehicles. The Heavy Arc Rifles are currently Dd3 Dd6 against vehicles. Could they possibly go to Dd6 D6 against vehicles?
flat 6 seems a bit much? d3+3 would probably be my guess.

Yeah, possibly. If they stay BS4 I don't think that would be too much.
   
Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Has there been any more leaks yet? Instruction stats or anything?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Not yet unfortunately.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Shame we got nocked back until May, though I understand.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't think anybody really understands, since they didn't tell us. Aside from people with inside info I guess.
   
Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






They mentioned it’s to do with shipping issues, so I’m just guessing it’s covid problems.
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





1.Giving skitarii some resilience thats not just a 6++ would be great to symbolize that they are cyborgs.

2. GW also likes giving armies rules that change per turn. This would be great to symbolize the Admech analyzing data. (this mechanic is actually great imo, as that reduces power early in favor to later turns)

3. Infiltrator weapons are mostly fine model and fluff to ruleswise ( not much to do with stubbers and magnetic nailguns), they need a much stronger aura though ( maybe regain the give enemy units -1 to hit and more than 3" range), maybe make it count only for 1 or 2 rounds to keep them cheaper and because it uses a lot of energy.

4. Im sad to see ( on serberys leaked datasheet) that they didnt regain a ld of 9, 8 would have been fine too.)

5. Torsion cannons getting a buff is much needed( although in comparison to the other changes, they didnt give it a defined and fitting role [which imo would have been a short range melta with disruption capabilitys, eg. reduce movement]) Their main problem was that its competing with a better, more consistent arc rifle that gets buffs too AND is cheaper currently.

6. Our Hqs model and lorewise are terrifying, not so much on the tabletop. They arent worth to consider for any opponent. (engineseers are fine, lorewise they arent much, but modelwise he looks more intimidating than he is) He wasnt even part of the admech roster in 7th ( basically just low level priests that are gifted to the AM) and went from elite to the HQ slot in admech in 8th, as they only had one HQ: the dominus at the time, in an edition were HQ spam was favourable.

7. They fixed a lot with so few changes (most importantly giving defined roles and not have 6 of all possible 12 units do the same thing). That leaves the datasmith and servitors, who dont do anything sadly.

8. Many rules which are part of kits got sadly removed, as well as not having machinespirit rules. Grenades on ruststalkers, Dominus doesnt have mechadendrites, Dunecrawler has a servoarm+ drill.

9. Given Skitarii buffs, the elite Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts hopefully see appropriate buffs as well.

Honorable mention: the Dragoons jezzail that got lifted from joke to trash tier. When giving a light vehicle a D1 2shot sniper as its main weapon is a great idea. Im also wondering about the Transvector, which is mostly a giant flying brick.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Admech HQs suffer from what I like to call "The Necron/GSC/AM HQ Problem" where they're one of the four factions whose lore isn't that theyre the BEST MELEE DUELLISTS EVARRRR NOBODY CAN EVER DEFEAT THEIR MIGHTY CHARACTERS IN A DUELLL but all their characters are mostly still equipped with melee gear so the question is how to make them useful without creating the possibility that at some point some Admech HQ will get into a fight with a marine captain equipped with a dull butterknife and win.

So far, the answer GW seems to have come up with is "welp, you can charge them into basic, no special rules shooting-focused marine units, and they WILL, you have our assurances, deal enough wounds to kill at least one space marine.

Other than that, noooooooooo promises. Anything with CHARACTER in that keyword line, you wanna avoid. Once you get down to a space marine...doctor, then MAYBE, MAYBE in three or four uninterrupted rounds of combat you'll get to kill him. But a space marine third-in-command lieutenant, fugeddaboudit."

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 the_scotsman wrote:
Admech HQs suffer from what I like to call "The Necron/GSC/AM HQ Problem" where they're one of the four factions whose lore isn't that theyre the BEST MELEE DUELLISTS EVARRRR NOBODY CAN EVER DEFEAT THEIR MIGHTY CHARACTERS IN A DUELLL but all their characters are mostly still equipped with melee gear so the question is how to make them useful without creating the possibility that at some point some Admech HQ will get into a fight with a marine captain equipped with a dull butterknife and win.

So far, the answer GW seems to have come up with is "welp, you can charge them into basic, no special rules shooting-focused marine units, and they WILL, you have our assurances, deal enough wounds to kill at least one space marine.

Other than that, noooooooooo promises. Anything with CHARACTER in that keyword line, you wanna avoid. Once you get down to a space marine...doctor, then MAYBE, MAYBE in three or four uninterrupted rounds of combat you'll get to kill him. But a space marine third-in-command lieutenant, fugeddaboudit."



The Overlord / CCB is a ball buster with FNP / invuln ignore scythe even with only 4A and no rerolls. He can be built to absolutely crush any marine in a round. I'd like to see GSC keep the assassination angle in glass cannon territory.

I'm hoping the Marshall is really hard to put down or has some other funky tricks. I don't think they need to be murder machines like the succubus, but enough to have an impact if they get there at the right time and right place.


   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd




 the_scotsman wrote:
Admech HQs suffer from what I like to call "The Necron/GSC/AM HQ Problem" where they're one of the four factions whose lore isn't that theyre the BEST MELEE DUELLISTS EVARRRR NOBODY CAN EVER DEFEAT THEIR MIGHTY CHARACTERS IN A DUELLL but all their characters are mostly still equipped with melee gear so the question is how to make them useful without creating the possibility that at some point some Admech HQ will get into a fight with a marine captain equipped with a dull butterknife and win.

So far, the answer GW seems to have come up with is "welp, you can charge them into basic, no special rules shooting-focused marine units, and they WILL, you have our assurances, deal enough wounds to kill at least one space marine.

Other than that, noooooooooo promises. Anything with CHARACTER in that keyword line, you wanna avoid. Once you get down to a space marine...doctor, then MAYBE, MAYBE in three or four uninterrupted rounds of combat you'll get to kill him. But a space marine third-in-command lieutenant, fugeddaboudit."


I genuinely have no idea why Necron HQs don't dice up Marines with War scythes or whatever they're packing, the majority of Necrons I have read about in the fluff are more along the lines of they show up and bad things happen. I recall in the Word Bearer's novels the Necron Lord or Overlord simply bisecting Jarulek a Word Bearer's Dank Apostle and his traitorous First Acolyte not even bothering to fight and just ran for it.

But on Admech, I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of hulked out Techpriest who could take on a Carnifex with sheer brute force, or has some serious firepower hiding within those robes, ready to be brought forth. They should have some of the most customizable HQs in game.

A Necron Overlord should with just a War scythe be able on his Space Marine counter part with good odds of winning. Hell Make him cost a little more and I could understand him thematically cutting them to ribbons. If it would create balance issues for Lychguard just attach Royal in front of Warscythe and move on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 14:49:35


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:

The Overlord / CCB is a ball buster with FNP / invuln ignore scythe even with only 4A and no rerolls. He can be built to absolutely crush any marine in a round.


Unfortunately it isn't possible to create an Overlord that ignores invuls; only C'tan have that option. The Overlord can take a 3-damage scythe that ignores FNPs. Without further buffs he averages just 1.1 unsaved wounds against a T4 4++ Marine, translating to 3.3 damage. There are a few WTs that push him up to 4-5 wounds.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Twilight Pathways wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

The Overlord / CCB is a ball buster with FNP / invuln ignore scythe even with only 4A and no rerolls. He can be built to absolutely crush any marine in a round.


Unfortunately it isn't possible to create an Overlord that ignores invuls; only C'tan have that option. The Overlord can take a 3-damage scythe that ignores FNPs. Without further buffs he averages just 1.1 unsaved wounds against a T4 4++ Marine, translating to 3.3 damage. There are a few WTs that push him up to 4-5 wounds.


You're right, sorry. The +2A vs characters has been in consideration, but I tend to lean on -1D. With the former the average is 5, but that means a high chance to pass 6 wounds though, which is enough to kill all but the names characters, iirc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 15:07:25


   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Tiberius501 wrote:
They mentioned it’s to do with shipping issues, so I’m just guessing it’s covid problems.

It's most likely not COVID related.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ghaz wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
They mentioned it’s to do with shipping issues, so I’m just guessing it’s covid problems.

It's most likely not COVID related.


Oh my god. ERP...

We work with DXC. Thankfully on a very limited basis.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




The article won't load for me. Someone mind giving a TLDR?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




Bath

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The article won't load for me. Someone mind giving a TLDR?


Game Workshop is changing the ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) programs they are using. So, the stock database, the parts control programs, the ordering system etc. They have (like many companies have before, and many will in the future) kept a creaking outdated system (form 2005 ) in use for many years past when they should have changed it because of the problems of migrating to a new system. They've finally decided to swallow that bitter pill and are changing to a new suite that, when its working, will make them work "better", but they need to ride out the bumps and mishaps of the transition period. it was supposed to be finished by christmas, but it appears that its not working properly, and they've had to hire external experts to come in and help sort out the mess.

so, basically their replacing thier software with something younger than the Eldar range, and the new system is having teething troubles that is slowing everything down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 16:58:37


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
500pts
1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The article won't load for me. Someone mind giving a TLDR?


ERP is basically a big umbrella of software - warehouse management, financial, manufacturing, supply chain, etc. It's what makes everything tick. GW has been working on the project for a long time and they were due to implement last year, but it went south. Now they're changing ( changed ) their contractor and it's a huge mess.

This down time is likely to bring the systems online without the old one running and give it all a thorough test.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 17:02:04


   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






As dev of an ERP System for one and a half decades.... Changing your ERP is one of the most expensive, disruptive and scariest things you can do.
Especially if you feth it up, switch over to the new system before it works correctly and you somehow already designed your processes around the new one and cannot easily keep working with the old.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The article won't load for me. Someone mind giving a TLDR?


ERP is basically a big umbrella of software - warehouse management, financial, manufacturing, supply chain, etc. It's what makes everything tick. GW has been working on the project for a long time and they were due to implement last year, but it went south. Now they're changing ( changed ) their contractor and it's a huge mess.

This down time is likely to bring the systems online without the old one running and give it all a thorough test.


I'm aware of what it is but had no clue they were doing anything about changing, well, anything.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Thairne wrote:
As dev of an ERP System for one and a half decades.... Changing your ERP is one of the most expensive, disruptive and scariest things you can do.
Especially if you feth it up, switch over to the new system before it works correctly and you somehow already designed your processes around the new one and cannot easily keep working with the old.
Ive experienced the horror of a botched ERP change. It is an experience to avoid.
   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Kataphron box leaks! breachers have a 2+ and destroyers a 3+

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/n7ufy0/kataphron_boxed_rules/

Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
2500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm holding my breath. The buffs plus how DE popped out makes me concerned for their debut.

   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





I'm nervously excited. If points don't go up too much and we get some good fluffy and useful rules like all others are getting I think it could be great.

For me it all comes down to the points and what we lose (engine war was amazing for us, anything we lose will be a loss).

Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
2500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Any Admech players want to give us a rundown of what changed and how? Didn't they have a 3+ save before?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/08 20:40:56


 
   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Both had their save improved by 1

(some of this if from the community article)
plasma destroyers now only do a mortal wound on a roll of 1. not kill the model.

heavy arc rilfe went to flat 2 damage rather than d3 (likely to wound any vehicle on a 4+)
torion canon doubled range
arc claw went from ap-1 to ap-3
hydrolic claw went from ap-1 to ap-2 and d3 damage to flat 3


Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
2500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Chaos Terminator




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Dd3+3 is an improvement for the Torsion Canon too isn't it? Aren't they currently Dd6?
   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





You're right, I missed that one, cheers.

Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
2500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
 
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





On one hand its nice that breachers didnt get buffs to shooting as they are meant to be resilient and a buff to melee helps them to be frontliners. Didnt expect the ap3 on arc claws though. On the other hand its weird that the heavy version of the arc rifle only gives 6" more range, and more consistency to damage and shots.
   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Heav arc may do more damage vs vehicles, maybe 2+d3 opposed to the flat 3 of the regular?

Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
2500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
 
   
 
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