SWTOR - Being clever gets you banned, and other fun stories.

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**Necroshea**

My friend recently dropped a couple images on me, and all I've got to say is...wow

Thoughts? I've not been keeping up with TOR outside of the other thread on this board.

**Necros**

the one that seems dumbest to me is getting a warning for opening a high level container? .. so, you're not allowed to explore? Shouldn't a high level zone be at your own risk, and you take the chance of getting swallowed in 1 bite by Ginormous_Dewback0003? In WOW, you could go to stranglethorn vale at level 1 if you wanted to, but a raptor would see you coming a mile away...

If they really don't want low level people in certain areas, why can't they just program it into the game to not allow them to enter at all?

**purplefood**

I heard of this...
Thought it was hyperbole...

**RatBot**

Thoughts?

I'm fairly dubious about the first two; people whip up fake emails when they get banned/warned for legitimate reasons all the time. I suppose that's unfortunate, since it means people who get banned for questionable reasons are often dismissed out of hand. If it is true, then that's... pretty stupid. If it's that big of a deal, they should just lock the zone to people below 50.

Also, as for the second one, I am especially dubious since I've seen people (the same people) using all kinds of foul language in /1, continually, for weeks, and none of them have been banned.

As for the third one... Perhaps that guy should find a new line of work.

**Necroshea**

Necros wrote:the one that seems dumbest to me is getting a warning for opening a high level container? .. so, you're not allowed to explore? Shouldn't a high level zone be at your own risk, and you take the chance of getting swallowed in 1 bite by Ginormous_Dewback0003? In WOW, you could go to stranglethorn vale at level 1 if you wanted to, but a raptor would see you coming a mile away...

If they really don't want low level people in certain areas, why can't they just program it into the game to not allow them to enter at all?

Yeah, that's the first thing that came to mind for me too. If people are exploiting your game, it's because you let them. After all they're still going by your game rules to do it all.

If anything a patch should be released to just fix it and leave at that. Warnings and bans are ridiculous.

**Nerivant**

The first two are fake. Wow, people are gullible.

**chaos0xomega**

Whats the third image about? I understand what they are discussing, but I don't understand the context (I.E. such and such tried to warn you of such and such and now the game is a wreck because of such and such)

**Necroshea**

Nerivant wrote:The first two are fake. Wow, people are gullible.

Well looks like the first one isn't, sorta.

Here's a 90 pg long thread about it.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109515

Here's what bioware finally got around to saying about it.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1060894

Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.

So yep, they handed out warnings and suspensions because people within the game we're going by the rules of the game and disrupting the economy.

Edit - Whoops, I derped. Meant to say second one, not first.

**epy346**

Need more context on the third one. The one about language seems to be fake to me, since I've been dropping F-bombs in /1 and /p and whispers all beta and since launch. So have the dudes I play with. In addition, we had quite the time trying to see what words the filters were catch (it's quite a damn lot) and have gotten no warnings, etc.

Someone had to report him for that, perhaps it was his friend in jest.

**Necroshea**

From what I understand on the third one, 4chan hijinks lead to a bunch of people mass dropping bad reviews for the game on metacritic, leading it to possess some terrible rating (which isn't the case anymore it seems, currently rated as 6.1). I imagine the conversation was about how Bioware stated that they would ignore the reviews that seemed poorly put together (ala 4chan spam), then some guy stated that even if they were put together well bioware still wouldn't read them (As they're bad reviews). They then told him to piss off or something to that effect.

It's rather confusing to me still, I'm going to continue to look into it.

**Nerivant**

Necroshea wrote:
Nerivant wrote:The first two are fake. Wow, people are gullible.

Well looks like the first one isn't, sorta.

Here's a 90 pg long thread about it.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109515

Here's what bioware finally got around to saying about it.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1060894

Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.

So yep, they handed out warnings and suspensions because people within the game we're going by the rules of the game and disrupting the economy.

The "proof," that is, the email from "Customer Service" is so obviously fake that it's painful. They couldn't even spell the name of the planet right.

The second bit sounds a bit off, but those who overzealously farmed the Ilum chests, including myself, were asked rather nicely to stop. I'll assume that the suspensions are a direct result of saying "hah! Take that BioWare! I won't listen to you" and continuing after the fact. Regardless of the ground you're arguing from, that never works. You accept the EULA, the TOS, and you play by their rules. That's it. You don't win those fights.

**Kanluwen**

The way I was seeing it happen on Ilium was that the low levels would "stalk" higher levels, and pounce on chests while the high levels were fighting to clear the area around them.

It'd be an easy fix if they just added that opening a chest locks you into combat until after the mobs are cleared.

**Necroshea**

I wonder why they didn't just make the chests leveled, or the mobs target you from some distance away. Just seems like a much better way of handling things.

**Kanluwen**

Probably because they might at some point add some kind of event using a "phase" on the planet or something.

Just an assumption.

**dogma**

Yeah, leveled, or level locked, chests seems like the easiest fix from the perspective of players. Of course, that means waiting for the next patch, at the earliest, to hit which would still require this type of temporary fix.

I wonder if this is one of those things that Bioware just didn't think of, being as it wouldn't be an issue in any of their other titles given their narrative structure.

**Nerivant**

dogma wrote:
I wonder if this is one of those things that Bioware just didn't think of, being as it wouldn't be an issue in any of their other titles given their narrative structure.

Probably; this is their first rodeo. With a single-player game, they could reward people for their cunning.

Now they're having to do a 180 and crack down on it.

**Kanluwen**

Well to be fair, the economies are pretty fethed up serverwise. There's quite a few people who are sitting at millions of credits from slicing(and still gaining, despite the nerf to slicing) while those who went for "productive" crew skills are barely breaking 100k when they first hit 50.

On Mind Trick for the Sith Empire, I'm seeing stupid prices on items.

**dogma**

So, its just like real life then?

**H.B.M.C.**

Step 1: Buy game in retail store.
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.
Step 3: Get banned for some minor incident with no chance of appeal.
Step 4: Wonder why in the feth anyone would ever want to play an MMO...

**Nerivant**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Step 1: Buy game in retail store.
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.
Step 3: Get banned for some minor incident with no chance of appeal.
Step 4: Wonder why in the feth anyone would ever want to play an MMO...

And what does that have to do with thread? The only people banned were those farming for credits with the intent to sell them to other players. Not a "minor" incident.

**Necroshea**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Step 1: Buy game in retail store.
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.
Step 3: Get banned for some minor incident with no chance of appeal.
Step 4: Wonder why in the feth anyone would ever want to play an MMO...

Yeah, step 3 not so likely as people would get warnings then suspensions. Bioware stressed that they didn't ban anyone for it (wonder why, that wouldn't be the best PR).

However, you can still just skip over step 3 and I'd still reach the same end.

**Ahtman**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Step 1: Buy game in retail store.
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.
Step 3: Get banned for some minor incident with no chance of appeal.
Step 4: Wonder why in the feth anyone would ever want to play an MMO...

So I am guessing from number 2 you have never paid for any DLC?

I wonder why in the feth people would buy a new soccer or football game year in and out but they do.

**dogma**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.

Don't you play the game Warhammer 40k? I hear you have to buy things in order to play that.

**Ahtman**

I think they are trying to keep the game from becoming someone else's money making enterprise (gold selling and the like) while keeping it fun for casual players who, essentially, will be punished becuase they are at the whims of those who play 10-18 hour day and want to control the system. They are overreaching at some points and there will be some bumps along the way, including lies such as some of the claims above as well as some overly dramatic reactions to what seem minor issues, but I am interested to see if they actually can make a dent in the way online business, vis-a-vis online auction houses/in game markets, are gamed by outside groups. It will be interesting to see what happens in the long run as they work out the kinks in their system, and if they actually have any impact on it.

I know several people who play the game, have read articles (IGN and such), and I have played it myself and never once run into any issues like the above and I would bet the overwhelming vast majority of players never will run into any of these issues either.

**epy346**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Step 1: Buy game in retail store.
Step 2: Continue to pay monthly for a game you've already paid for, just to keep playing it.
Step 3: Get banned for some minor incident with no chance of appeal.
Step 4: Wonder why in the feth anyone would ever want to play an MMO...

Step 1: Sign up for forums
Step 2: Continue to get on forums
Step 3: Be overzealous about a topic and make silly statements
Step 4: Troll harder.

**Ahtman**

Bioware has responded to the stories:

Our Terms of Service team recently took action against some accounts playing Star Wars: The Old Republic, and we wanted to give you some insight into what happened and why.

First, action was taken against a number of accounts for what's commonly known as 'gold farming' - or in our case, credit farming. These accounts were found to be exploiting the game in a variety of ways to maximize their credits in order to sell them to other players. Our Terms of Service team took action against these accounts and removed them permanently from the game.

Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.

None of these accounts were banned for their actions and no accounts have been banned for travelling to Ilum while still relatively low level. By comparison, the number of accounts that were warned or temporarily suspended was considerably lower than the number of accounts banned for 'credit farming'.

It's important to remember that our Terms of Service team is extremely careful and thorough in their investigation of any potential exploit or unusual activity in-game. Working closely with the development team and using extensive metrics based on player activity, they are able to determine what is normal player activity, what is unusual and what is exploiting. Our goal is always to ensure a fair game experience for all players while also protecting the rights of individuals, and if people are disrupting the play experience for others action will be taken.

While we will not discuss the details of any individual action, whenever we take action against an account we believe they have clearly broken our Terms of Service. Any action taken against an account can be appealed and in some cases actions have been rescinded.

While we understand people's concern about actions taken against accounts, please remember the Terms of Service team exists to help ensure a balanced and fair game experience for all. When you see reports of actions taken against someone's account, remember they are choosing to tell their version of the story - and there are two sides to every story.

In summary, our Terms of Service team took action against a number of accounts that were 'credit farming' to remove them permanently from the game. They also warned and temporarily suspended - but did not ban - a smaller number of accounts for activities on Ilum that were decided to be game exploits.

Some adjustments will be made to Ilum in the near future to discourage future exploits. However, the planet is still open to anyone who wishes to travel there.

The goal of the Star Wars: The Old Republic team is to maintain a service for our customers that is fun to play and equitable for everyone. Critical to this goal is making sure that gameplay is fair and reasonable and we are constantly on the lookout for anything that would prove to be a detriment to your gameplay experiences.

Thanks for reading, and we hope this gave you some insights.

**KingCracker**

Necros wrote:the one that seems dumbest to me is getting a warning for opening a high level container? .. so, you're not allowed to explore? Shouldn't a high level zone be at your own risk, and you take the chance of getting swallowed in 1 bite by Ginormous_Dewback0003? In WOW, you could go to stranglethorn vale at level 1 if you wanted to, but a raptor would see you coming a mile away...

If they really don't want low level people in certain areas, why can't they just program it into the game to not allow them to enter at all?

Thats pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well. Sooo......I cant actually DO SOMETHING about being poor? Really?! What a fething slowed reason to get banned in an MMO. Oops, you thought outside of the box, BANHAMMA!

**Ahtman**

KingCracker wrote:
Necros wrote:the one that seems dumbest to me is getting a warning for opening a high level container? .. so, you're not allowed to explore? Shouldn't a high level zone be at your own risk, and you take the chance of getting swallowed in 1 bite by Ginormous_Dewback0003? In WOW, you could go to stranglethorn vale at level 1 if you wanted to, but a raptor would see you coming a mile away...

If they really don't want low level people in certain areas, why can't they just program it into the game to not allow them to enter at all?

Thats pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well. Sooo......I cant actually DO SOMETHING about being poor? Really?! What a fething slowed reason to get banned in an MMO. Oops, you thought outside of the box, BANHAMMA!

Did you just skip over all the posts in between that addressed just this issue as well as the statement from Bioware on what happened? They even specifically said there isn't anything wrong with finding stuff in higher areas, and they aren't banning people simply for that. If anything the point of much of what they are doing is to prevent average players from being poor becuase they are competing with gold sellers for loot.

**Gitzbitah**

The real question is, are the bannings and warnings fully voiced?

**Ahtman**

Gitzbitah wrote:The real question is, are the bannings and warnings fully voiced?

Oprah does the voice and you can hear how disappointed in you she is in you. It is quite immerse.