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Upon hearing that Sixth Edition is coming out this year and that one of the early Codex books is going to be a new Space Marine codex, I wanted to chime in and hear others in the community chime in about what they'd like to see inside of said Codex. I'll get the ball rolling...

1) I'd like to see independent characters (generic ones, not Special/Named Characters) with more customization options. In comparison to other army commanders they seem pretty...basic and generic no matter what you take on them right now. Anything would spice them up, bringing back Relics would be great, maybe adding some more options (like bringing back Bionics that give maybe a 5+ FNP save), and maybe adding a small pool of special command abilities or something. Would love for Chapter Masters to actually start to feel badass.

2) More options for Venerable Dreadnoughts or simply just better Venerable Dreadnoughts, right now apart from a minor stat boost they really don't feel all that special over the regular brand of Dreadnought. Would like to be able to take them as a Headquarters choice as well.

3) Change Storm Shields. They're just too good right now to the point where it's kinda foolish not to take them. Think they'd work better by simply conferring a +1 to a units Invulnerable Save or, if the unit has no Invulnerable Save, conferring a 5+ Invulnerable Save to the unit. Still makes them pretty good, but more of an actual choice rather than a 3+ Invul Save no brainer choice. Hopefully this will make standard Terminator Squads more appealing in comparison again.

4) Some kind of Chapter Customization system. Traits, Perks, Chapter Tactics, it doesn't matter to me, just give us something. I'll agree that Chapter Tactics was somewhat easy to abuse, but that doesn't mean that this type of thing should just get thrown out the window because of it. I've shown (and will keep showing) that's its possible to create a balanced Chapter creation system and if GW wants my help in making such I'd be more than happy to offer my services. Seriously, I'll work for peanuts if it means getting some Chapter Customization back into the game.

5) Fix the Blessings of the Omnissiah rule. It just...isn't very good right now and really breaks the flow of gameplay. Needs to be more useful and flow better with the game. This should also make Techmarines and Masters of the Forge more appealing as well (I would hope).

6) Expand on the Mounted Assault special rule for Captains. Allow a Captain in Terminator Armour to take Terminator Squads numbering 5 models as Troops, a Captain with a Jump Pack to take Assault Squads as Troops, a Captain on a Bike to take Bike Squads numbering 5 models as Troops, and some sort of Captain that allows Devastator Squads to be taken as Elites choices. To prevent abuse, make it so only a single Captain can do this (so if you have two Captains with two different wargear traits, you have to pick which one you're going to use). Since Dark Angels have to be remade anyways, you could always make the Dark Angels have a better version or this (or simply make some kind of Deathwing Terminator Squad that always counts as Troops).

7) Do to Land Raiders what was done with Predators and just make a single Land Raider entry with multiple options for the front turret and sponsons. Not only will this provide players with more options and unclog the Codex with so many Land Raider options (not all of which are as good as others), but it will also reduce the number of kits out there from 3 to 1.

8) Make some kind of transport vehicle for Dreadnoughts. I miss the days when a Land Raider could carry one, maybe bring back the ability for a Land Raider to carry one (maybe as an option that, if you take it, the Land Raider can no longer carry regular infantry). If so, maybe offer Land Raiders as a Dedicated Transport for Dreadnoughts.

9) Incorporate more weapons into the standard Dreadnoughts second arm (more ranged weapon options so we can make Mortis Pattern-like Dreadnoughts). Maybe adding the ability to take a shoulder-mounted Cyclone Missile Launcher or two Hunter Killer Missiles.

10) If you're not going to make an Iron Hands Codex than at least add some Iron Hands characters to the generic Space Marine Codex. Would love to see Gdolkin.

11) Make Vanguard Veterans a bit better. They're not horribly underpowered, they just need a little nudge to make them a bit more appealing for their points and in comparison with the other Fast Attack choices. Right now they just feel like overpriced Assault Squads with a half-decent special rule. Maybe also give them the ability to take Jump Packs OR Bikes.

12) A better plastic Scout Squad kit, one with some enclosed armour options. I always found the look of never having any kind of helmet or anything rather awkward and would rather something a little more cool or stealthy-looking.

how about bring back conversion beamers for devastators

I agree with 4 and 6 however 6 is a little difficult to do. It is easy to say let's make it unique but how can you do it when you keep giving every unique things of DA to everyone. Here is a list of few of them which any DA player may help to expand:

Mortis Pattern Dreadnought supposed to be DA only, currently available to all but DA.

Tactical Squad plasma cannon used to be DA only.

Sergeant Naaman got removed then Ultramarines got Sergeant Telion.

Special character Chaplins, Librarians for DA got removed then every other major chapters got theirs.

Cyrax wrote:
Tactical Squad plasma cannon used to be DA only.[/list]

I really hope they don't go back to this. Mainly because I've spent ages painting Plasma Cannon marines and putting tactical markings on them!

I definitely agree on chapter specific traits.

More chapter specific characters. (Not just loads of Ultramarines characters and a couple of other chapter's characters thrown in as an afterthought)

Changing the special/heavy weapon selection for tac squads - a special weapon if the squad numbers 5 or more, heavy weapon if it numbers 10.

In the same vein as the mounted assault rule for captains, I would hope that a chapter master can take a single squad of veterans or Terminators as a troop choice.

Or failing that, for x amount of points, a tac or assault squad can be upgraded to a first company veteran squad.

To the OP and point number 8, the Stormraven can transport Dreads iirc

How about this:

Devastators and assault marines as troop choices. Troop devastators 5+ models, with 5 models 0-2 can swap their bolter for a heavy bolter, at ten models 0-4 can swap their bolters for heavy bolters or missile launchers (max 2 missile launchers).

Troop assault marines are same as now, however may not take jump packs, rhino as unit upgrade.

Costs for these would be adjusted, obviously they would be cheaper. Devs with full choice of heavy weapons and jump pack assault marines would be still available in HS and FA as normal.

The_Happy_Pig wrote:

Cyrax wrote:
Tactical Squad plasma cannon used to be DA only.[/list]

I really hope they don't go back to this. Mainly because I've spent ages painting Plasma Cannon marines and putting tactical markings on them!

I don't mean they should go back just that: if GW wants to make something unique then GW shouldn't give it to everyone else or at least try not to rob it from the DA and give someone else.

Everyone gets Stormravens, but with a different name for the Skies of Blood and different Missiles.

Vanilla (Ultramarine, IF, CF, Blood Raven, the like) could be "Angels of Death" and their Missiles could be StraightStrike Missiles-200pts

Rg 72"
Str 5
AP4
Heavy 1, Blast, One shot.

Sallies could have skies of Fire and Firestrikes-200pts
Rg 72"
Str 4
AP 5
Heavy 1, Blast, one shot, ignores cover.

Mechanicus Chapters such as the Iron Hands and Praetors or Orpheus could have Skies of Steel and Cyberstrikes.-205pts

Rg 72"
S 6
AP 4
Heavy 1 blast, one shot

SW could have Wolven Skies and Froststrike missiles-205pts
Rg 72"
S 5
AP 5
Heavy 1, Lg Blast, One shot

Raven Guard could have Stealthstrike missiles and Skies of Vengeance-200pts
Rg 72"
S 6
AP 4
Heavy 1 blast

A Stealthstrike missile gives the stealth special rule to any unit hit by it, but it is unaffected by the Night Fight Special Rules

DA could have Lion strike Missiles and Unforgiven Skies-220pts
Rg 72"
S 7
AP 2
Heavy 1, Blast, One shot

BT wouldn't have them just yet. Let's wait till they get their udate.

Stormravens will be mostly BA & GK only. For other chapters a new fast skimmer transport is rumored.

Caetus Assault Ram????

Hm???



No?

:(

Deadshot wrote:Caetus Assault Ram????

One can dream.

Remove Telion and Chronus. MOAR CHARACTARZ
LotD don't need to be in the book, but they do have some beautiful models...

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Remove Telion and Chronus. MOAR CHARACTARZ
LotD don't need to be in the book, but they do have some beautiful models...

Yeah, there's way too many Ultramarines special characters (more than are needed) and not enough from other chapters. If GW is going to continue doing this "lets clump every other chapter into Codex Space Marines" stuff than they need a wider array of heroes from other chapters and not just a ton from Ultramarines.

LotD just felt out of place in the book. Felt like GW was forcefully trying to create a new, interesting, unique for the Codex when it really wasn't needed. They need to start "pulling a Tau" and just make it so they development some new tech now and again. Like maybe a fully trained Marine squad that still uses scout armour and counts as Elites choices with some nifty rules and upgrades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cyrax wrote:I agree with 4 and 6 however 6 is a little difficult to do. It is easy to say let's make it unique but how can you do it when you keep giving every unique things of DA to everyone. Here is a list of few of them which any DA player may help to expand:

Mortis Pattern Dreadnought supposed to be DA only, currently available to all but DA.

Tactical Squad plasma cannon used to be DA only.

Sergeant Naaman got removed then Ultramarines got Sergeant Telion.

Special character Chaplins, Librarians for DA got removed then every other major chapters got theirs.

I don't think this is so much a problem with vanilla "stealing" all of the Dark Angels stuff as it is the Dark Angels just needing to become a bit more unique and interesting on a whole. Have some ideas for making Dark Angels cooler too.

1) Give them two different Terminator Squads. One being a bare bones, 5-man squad that can be taken as Troops choices regardless of who your HQ unit is, and another more customizable squad that still acts as Elites choices and maybe has some cool special rules to represent that their Terminators are basically special over other chapters. Maybe some kind of rule where they get Preferred Enemy against any Chaos Space Marine and maybe give them some unique customization options too. Maybe have the Sergeant be able to upgrade to a 1-wound Chaplain or something, that would be cool (or just have a 1-2 Wound Chaplain lead the squad to begin with).

2) Have some kind of Ravenwing squad as a Troops choice regardless of the army's Headquarters choices and another, more customizable or potent type as a Fast Attack choice.

3) More unique wargear and units to make up for Vanilla always taking some of their stuff. Give them a Mortis Dreadnought as a Heavy Support choice and give it some kind of special rules to make it more appealing over the Vanilla Dreadnought that can take two that doesn't have any special rules. There's lots that GW can do to make Dark Angels more unique and interesting without simply having "take X HQ choice, get X unit as Troops." Would love to see some kind of Redeemer unit or something, some kind of specialized crusader-esque squad who strives to try to redeem the name of the Dark Angels.

Keep current special characters like Telion and Chronus... They dont have to be Ultramarines... remember special characters can be used for other characters... For example I can make my own Chapter and say that is my own special character with those stats as long as pay for them... It gives a uniqueness to vanilla...

Also I agree with the Storm Raven but would not want it due to it giving the GK and BA their own uniqueness... Like someone said maybe a different skimmer type transport...

Showing my age here, but i'd like to go back to lod school, and have the following put back for Space Marines

1. Flight Packs

2. Hover Boards

3. Shuriken weaponary

Was cool to use these in the 80's

More named characters for other chapters.

Give Jump Pack Assault Marines more abilities so they become worth taking over a regular squad in a transport. Of course, I realize that we don't yet know the fate of transports in 6th edition. Jump Packs could get a boost by transport vehicles getting a nerf but I digress to a few ideas...

-Give them the ability to fly off the table and then come back on via Deep Strike once per game. Maybe make that an upgrade that you pay extra points for and combine it with an ability similar to what swooping hawks used to do. They could fly high and drop grenades on enemy units (wait, can they still do that? Nobody uses Swooping Hawks.)

-Give them the Scouts USR

-Let them carry more special weapons or more power weapons or whatever.

-Give them a robust cover save on the turn they Deep Strike

-Give them an ability where they can choose to not move in the movement phase but charge 12" in the assault phase, striking at Initiative 10 in the turn they do that (representing a death-from-above type of attack.) Marines that fail an initiative check before blows are struck have to strike at I1 (they failed to stick their landing.)


Some of that is obviously over-the-top but anyone will agree that Jump Infantry Assault Marines need to be able to do more than just Deep Strike and move 12."

I wanna see more focus on different chapters of the marines. Maybe a few pages dedicated to if you want to play them as this chapter then you get these special rules. Something like what the first codex did except not as arbitrary and maybe a special unit, special upgrade for a unit, or new statline for a unit when you pick a certain chapter. For instance, if i wanted to play ravenguard, the whole army gets hit and run or something or if i want to play white scars bikes get a bonus to a statline maybe. Anything to make the codex more diverse as I knew most of what would be in the codex before even reading it just from playing others and reading around forums.

i wanna see them get rid of the LoTD and bring in a new elite squad. i had the idea for "Suppression" squads. basically the same idea behind the lotd. the deepstrike, slow and purposeful and get the heavy weapon option without some of the other bs. Definitely need more customizable characters with the captains and chapter master.

If you remove the storm shield then no one will use assualt terminators or normal terminators because both will be rubbish. Even now the assualt termis are not the best unit you can get otherwise everyone will be using the.

Example: deathwing is all assualt termis but when do you see them comming out on top? All the competitive armies, GK BA and SW none of them use large amounts of assualt termis or none.

Marthike wrote:If you remove the storm shield then no one will use assualt terminators or normal terminators because both will be rubbish. Even now the assualt termis are not the best unit you can get otherwise everyone will be using the.

Example: deathwing is all assualt termis but when do you see them comming out on top? All the competitive armies, GK BA and SW none of them use large amounts of assualt termis or none.

SW don't use them because they're super-expensive, GK don't use them because they don't even have them. Meanwhile, Templars, DA and Vanilla all use Assault Terminators (and Tactical Terminators in the case of Templars and DA) to great effect. TH/SS Terminators are still among the most resilient units in the game and will pretty much smash any other elite CC unit's face in, bar stuff like Paladin Deathstars or Death Company blobs with power weapons.

Marthike wrote:If you remove the storm shield then no one will use assualt terminators or normal terminators because both will be rubbish. Even now the assualt termis are not the best unit you can get otherwise everyone will be using the.

Example: deathwing is all assualt termis but when do you see them comming out on top? All the competitive armies, GK BA and SW none of them use large amounts of assualt termis or none.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Marthike wrote:If you remove the storm shield then no one will use assualt terminators or normal terminators because both will be rubbish. Even now the assualt termis are not the best unit you can get otherwise everyone will be using the.

Example: deathwing is all assualt termis but when do you see them comming out on top? All the competitive armies, GK BA and SW none of them use large amounts of assualt termis or none.

SW don't use them because they're super-expensive, GK don't use them because they don't even have them. Meanwhile, Templars, DA and Vanilla all use Assault Terminators (and Tactical Terminators in the case of Templars and DA) to great effect. TH/SS Terminators are still among the most resilient units in the game and will pretty much smash any other elite CC unit's face in, bar stuff like Paladin Deathstars or Death Company blobs with power weapons.

Exactly, the problem is the Storm Shield is just too good. I always see them popping up in tournaments on both IC, Sergeants, and for Assault Terminators. Terminators not being taken more often is because of said survivability issues, which you make up for with the inherent lack of survivability for such a pricy unit. Perhaps Terminators should just be reworked entirely to make them more appealing again, either that or a very minor price drop.

Marik Law wrote:Like maybe a fully trained Marine squad that still uses scout armour and counts as Elites choices with some nifty rules and upgrades.

\

Already exist, SW Wolf Scouts

Titus from Space Marine!

showing my age yet again but, not only conversion beamers for devastators but also the saber tank hunter with a few new weapons

Tone down the Ultramarine theme.

Marik Law wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

SW don't use them because they're super-expensive, GK don't use them because they don't even have them. Meanwhile, Templars, DA and Vanilla all use Assault Terminators (and Tactical Terminators in the case of Templars and DA) to great effect. TH/SS Terminators are still among the most resilient units in the game and will pretty much smash any other elite CC unit's face in, bar stuff like Paladin Deathstars or Death Company blobs with power weapons.

Exactly, the problem is the Storm Shield is just too good. I always see them popping up in tournaments on both IC, Sergeants, and for Assault Terminators. Terminators not being taken more often is because of said survivability issues, which you make up for with the inherent lack of survivability for such a pricy unit. Perhaps Terminators should just be reworked entirely to make them more appealing again, either that or a very minor price drop.

Normal terminators are used, as I said in the bolded part of my post. Their problem isn't survivability per se, it's their survivability compared to what you get out of them. Vanilla Terminators only get one special weapon at 5 Termies, which makes the Tactical Terminator "weak". Meanwhile, both DA and Templars get two special weapons on 5-man squads. Templars also get tank hunters, while DA can mix Cylcones with Assault Terminator gear. Thus, I don't think that it's the relative lack of survivability that makes Tactical Terminators unloved, it's the fact that Storm Bolters are rather underwhelming.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Meanwhile, both DA and Templars get two special weapons on 5-man squads.

How can DA get two special weapons, am I missing something?

Cyrax wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Meanwhile, both DA and Templars get two special weapons on 5-man squads.

How can DA get two special weapons, am I missing something?

D'oh, I thought I deleted that part. I fail, I guess.

Well let's see, I agree with toning down storm shields. I think giving them a 4++ vs. shooting, and a 3++ in cc would actually tone them down nicely without becoming an iron halo on crack. I'd say we need more a price decrease for ven dreads than more options, maybe 20 points less. 50 points is a lot to pay for +1 WS, BS, and a reroll on damage.


On to a few things I would like to see now. Captain's that can be equipped with scout armor. I could certainly see a lot of scout company captains being equipped with scout armor to better teach them practical application. Make it something like:
May exchange their power armor for Scout Armor, Scouts USR and Infiltrate USR- Free.


The other thing I would like to see "Tactica" abilities (similar to number 1 on the list). What I mean by that is put a point cost on the Chapter tactics abilities, and allow the Captain/Chapter Master/ Chaplain/Librarian access. For example make Pedro's Chapter tactics +5 points, or Vulkan's Twin-linking chapter tactics +10 points. This allows us to field a chapter without paying a special character tax.

Lone Dragoon wrote:
The other thing I would like to see "Tactica" abilities (similar to number 1 on the list). What I mean by that is put a point cost on the Chapter tactics abilities, and allow the Captain/Chapter Master/ Chaplain/Librarian access. For example make Pedro's Chapter tactics +5 points, or Vulkan's Twin-linking chapter tactics +10 points. This allows us to field a chapter without paying a special character tax.

Agreed with the concept, but by the Emperor I hope you just pulled some random numbers for examples, because 10 points for Vulkan's CT is grossly undercosted.