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I haven't played 40k since August and I'm going to a small local tournament Saturday to get back into things. With that said, I'm planning on taking my favorite army, my Dark Eldar.

This is the list I ran the last time I played:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Asdrubael Vect
Haemonculus - Shattershard
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
8 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 2000

Additionally, I own 2 more Haemonculi, 20 more Wyches, 1 Raider, 10 Wracks, and 12 Reaver Jetbikes.

Suggestions?

Wolf 11x wrote:
Asdrubael Vect

Hmm...Ok

Wolf 11x wrote:
Haemonculus - Shattershard

I'd go with a liquifier instead since you get multiple shots and can AP marines 50% of the time.

Wolf 11x wrote:
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons

Perfectly acceptable

Wolf 11x wrote:
8 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield

Please tell me this is 8 including the hekatrix and that the haemy and vect are joining them. The only other thing is that I would swap the shardnet for a razorflail and here's why: If you get charged by something scary such as say a dreadnaught it will be going after vect or the haemy, neither of which can hurt it, anything else vect will kill. Hydra gauntlets are not necessary against that which they excel, GEQs since that is what the venoms are for. Vect can cut more down by himself anyway. Now against marines Vect should score 3 or so wounds along with 1-2 more from the hekatrix. Throwing them into a 10 man squad can easily see a PF coming back at vect. Razorflails have the best odds of scorring unsaved wounds against MEQs.

Wolf 11x wrote:
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 2000

The rest of this is very standard venom spam which is frowned upon because it works. Since it's a tourney I wouldn't change a thing.

Wolf 11x wrote:
Additionally, I own 2 more Haemonculi, 20 more Wyches, 10 Wracks, and 12 Reaver Jetbikes.
Suggestions?

Scourges beat reavers unless they are in groups of 3, I much prefer wyches to wracks but the troops are great, and you have no more room to add haemys to squads so don't change anything.

I'd like a few more lances, but the list should do well. Fear the IG.

So Vect seems alright? No suggestions there? I like having a big glass cannon HQ.

Vect gives you a very good chance of getting the Alpha Strike, but I would be worried about running a unit of Wytches with no other melee support. Then again I haven't gotten in any test games with my Dark Eldar yet so I could be wrong. I'm relatively new to this army.

Vect does give that bonus to sieze which is good. Pricey as hell mind, but hey - I run Grotesques so who am I to bitch about points.

And I would also reccomend dropping the shattershard for a liquifier. A lot more reliable and can be used repeatedly.

Looks reasonable otherwise though.

I'm a fan of the shattershard. Don't have to roll to wound and is great vrs multi wound t4 stuff. Realistically I don't get that many rounds of template fun with the Haem anyway before they die or the stuff nearby gets locked in wychy combat. It's not a big issue really.

It does look like it could use a 2nd wych squad but without a spare raider the squad size will be too small.

If you need to free points and you don't plan on trying for the first turn charge, you could change a warrior squad out for some wracks, start them on the ground with vect and move him into the wyches raider first turn with the pain token. This would free up the Haem 65 pts and save 30 points on the warriors. This could buy you an extra wych and a squad of 3 reavers with a heat lance.

Really, the original list looks fine.

Using Hellions and the Baron in this list but with an extra wych squad and no Vect has been working quite well.

I do have an extra Raider. I believe I forgot to mention it in the original post.

I have considered dropping Vect and a Warrior squad and adding a 2nd squad of Wyches with a 2nd Haemonculus. However, that puts the list at about 1900 points. I'm not quite sure what I would do with the last 100.

The tournament is tomorrow. I'm still open to suggestions at this point.

I don't really think you need another CC unit to support the wyches. Use them as a counter charge to protect your warriors. Shoot I've seen DE lists that don't have any CC ability win so only having one isn't that big of a deal.

The big edge of the liquifier is to get multiple shots and it has a 50% chance of ignoring MEQs armor. The shardnet is ok for tarpiting but vect isn't one for tarpiting, hence the razorflail.

Well, if you had 2 more raiders;

Haem w liquefier x 3
Wyches x 8 w hek, ag, grenades, raider w ff x 2
Wyches x 7 w hek, ag, grenades, raider w ff
Warriors x 5, blaster, venom w sc x 3
Blasterborn x 4, blasters, venom w sc x 3
Ravager w ff x 3
5 points spare. It's got the tools for the job and keeps basically with what you have now.

If you don't have another raider, the 100 points could be night shields on most of your vehicles, however it depends on how you play your army as to whether this will be beneficial. If you pick a side to fly hard to and snipe before alpha striking it would be useful, if you go straight up the guts or similar, not much use. If you dropped a blasterborn from each squad or reduce the wyches down to 7 min you can free up points to get the 6 man squad of reavers with 2 heat lances.

Currently, I would probably go a version of the list at the top with a wych squad removed and the Baron and at least a dozen hellions put in using wracks to get double tokens on the squad. They give some nice options.

The first list you posted would still be a solid performer.

cmac wrote:Well, if you had 2 more raiders;

Haem w liquefier x 3
Wyches x 8 w hek, ag, grenades, raider w ff x 2
Wyches x 7 w hek, ag, grenades, raider w ff
Warriors x 5, blaster, venom w sc x 3
Blasterborn x 4, blasters, venom w sc x 3
Ravager w ff x 3
5 points spare. It's got the tools for the job and keeps basically with what you have now.

If you don't have another raider, the 100 points could be night shields on most of your vehicles, however it depends on how you play your army as to whether this will be beneficial. If you pick a side to fly hard to and snipe before alpha striking it would be useful, if you go straight up the guts or similar, not much use. If you dropped a blasterborn from each squad or reduce the wyches down to 7 min you can free up points to get the 6 man squad of reavers with 2 heat lances.

Currently, I would probably go a version of the list at the top with a wych squad removed and the Baron and at least a dozen hellions put in using wracks to get double tokens on the squad. They give some nice options.

The first list you posted would still be a solid performer.

I actually like the look of this list. Pretty solid melee potential and some excellent ranged firepower. I may give this a shot myself.

Unfortunately, I only have 2 Raiders.

How do you guys feel about Night Shields?

No. Absolutely no NS.

Basically if you are able to hit them with the DL or the SCs then you will be in range of things that can hurt your transport such as lascannons, and autocannons. If you are close enough to use blasters or hop out and charge then you are in range of shorter ranged weapons that can hurt you. Such as assault cannons and multi-meltas. All they do is slow rapid fire weapons and melta guns.

Akroma06 wrote:No. Absolutely no NS.

Basically if you are able to hit them with the DL or the SCs then you will be in range of things that can hurt your transport such as lascannons, and autocannons. If you are close enough to use blasters or hop out and charge then you are in range of shorter ranged weapons that can hurt you. Such as assault cannons and multi-meltas. All they do is slow rapid fire weapons and melta guns.

I can see them being useful to protect Ravagers against a rush from Space Marines, and against Necrons they might be relatively useful as well. Necrons are armed almost exclusively with 24" range rapid fire weapons, and many lists use large bricks of Warriors with a Phaeron to make them Relentless. Shortening their range to 6"/18" on their Gauss Rifles is a pretty big benefit, and it helps against Annihilation Barges as well. It won't help against Scarabs though.......

Yes it works against rapid fire. But most things that can shoot at you say a plasma gun will be in range of your venom if you can hit it with the blaster. The ravagers have to move into range of say a LR or a manticore, or a predator in order to be able to fire back at these nastier targets which the ravagers were designed to target. 6" won't help on any of them since their ranges go over 42".

This is what it'll be:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Asdrubael Vect
Haemonculus - Shattershard, Liquifier Gun
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
8 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 2000

I'm looking forward to letting you guys know how it goes!

Night shields are only for things you intend to leave far away anyway. With proper manuevering, you can get into position where if you take out your intended target, there is no counter-fire in range.

A lot of people are against them, I guess. I take the middle ground and only give them to my long range shooters. They've helped me out quite a bit. They are rarely ever a game changer, but if you're just putting it on 3 or 4 vehicles that are important (raiders are not important), it isn't so bad. You don't want to kick yourself for not taking them.

I am the sum of my experiences- your experience may vary.

Hmm, have to differ on the NS's. But don't want to do a big speel here as I intend to do up a tactica thread to counter the web belief about the if you can shoot it it can shoot you response that shoots down NS's on most forums. But basically

- its not the thing im shooting I want the protection from, hopefully that dies, its the other stuff that will return fire I am concerned about
- effectively it gives all my army a 6" bubble to play with. If I could take a character that granted that, I probably would.
- it can be offensive too if your range estimation is good. Ie, move to 43" of long fangs with your venoms subsequent turn you alpha, move to 48.5" of GK dreads with your raiders <turned to the side>, hence next turn rotate (gives 2.5"), move 12" and fire at the suckers (yes they can move).
- already good against hive guard, necrons, other DE, some GK weaponry. Use the movement tricks and you can get more bonuses, hope you are good at guessing ranges but this part is actually the coolest bit. You should have a good feeling for your ranges.
- if you deploy second, you may be able to avoid taking a lot of first turn damage but deploying hard in a far corner. I don't really like fully reserving.
- it makes your opponent think about their ranges a bit more, effectively they are 6" shorter than they are used to compared with any other list. Second guessing is good.
- recently I have been a fan of putting down a bit more long range fire before closing to take out the major threats first, this suits this style for any army.
- running 12 vehicles just gets very boggy, running 1 less but with higher surivivability and greater tactical benefits may be a solution to place shots better and have vehicles survive longer, effectively giving me more shots in a round about way.

Key is to know the opponent units, movements and ranges then read the board to minimise return fire and concentrate yours. Night shields have to help this.

But really, I'd like to do some mock setups and show the difference that the NS can make in the early return shots vrs various competitive builds. I'm still really playing with it. Do plan to write a tactica at some stage soon to try to rebuff the net think on this one.

cmac wrote:Hmm, have to differ on the NS's. But don't want to do a big speel here as I intend to do up a tactica thread to counter the web belief about the if you can shoot it it can shoot you response that shoots down NS's on most forums. But basically

- its not the thing im shooting I want the protection from, hopefully that dies, its the other stuff that will return fire I am concerned about
- effectively it gives all my army a 6" bubble to play with. If I could take a character that granted that, I probably would.
- it can be offensive too if your range estimation is good. Ie, move to 43" of long fangs with your venoms subsequent turn you alpha, move to 48.5" of GK dreads with your raiders <turned to the side>, hence next turn rotate (gives 2.5"), move 12" and fire at the suckers (yes they can move).
- already good against hive guard, necrons, other DE, some GK weaponry. Use the movement tricks and you can get more bonuses, hope you are good at guessing ranges but this part is actually the coolest bit. You should have a good feeling for your ranges.
- if you deploy second, you may be able to avoid taking a lot of first turn damage but deploying hard in a far corner. I don't really like fully reserving.
- it makes your opponent think about their ranges a bit more, effectively they are 6" shorter than they are used to compared with any other list. Second guessing is good.
- recently I have been a fan of putting down a bit more long range fire before closing to take out the major threats first, this suits this style for any army.
- running 12 vehicles just gets very boggy, running 1 less but with higher surivivability and greater tactical benefits may be a solution to place shots better and have vehicles survive longer, effectively giving me more shots in a round about way.

Key is to know the opponent units, movements and ranges then read the board to minimise return fire and concentrate yours. Night shields have to help this.

But really, I'd like to do some mock setups and show the difference that the NS can make in the early return shots vrs various competitive builds. I'm still really playing with it. Do plan to write a tactica at some stage soon to try to rebuff the net think on this one.

Well said.

Oh, and good luck with the tournament. I will be interested to see if you found you had enough long range dark light. Haven't quite discovered the right mix between between raiders and venoms yet, depends a bit on how mnay wyches are sharing the AI burdon.

Games went alright. I won against a mixed Dark Angel list, lost against the new Necrons (whose rules I did and do not know), and basically drew against Ultramarines.

My main thoughts are that my army can't handle pure mech well and Vect is nice but unnecessary, as I expected. I bought a third Raider in-store today and I am going to get a new list up soon.

Here is my revised list:

Dark Eldar - 2000
Haemonculus - Shattershard
Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun
Haemonculus - Liquifier Gun
3 Trueborn - 3 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn - 3 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn - 3 Blasters, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
9 Wyches - Hekatrix with Agoniser, 1 Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades, Raider with Flickerfield
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
5 Warriors - Blaster, Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Total - 1997

I just need to glue a Raider and 2 Haemonculi.

Yeah, I have found with that too many venoms spoils the anti tank broth. Its basically a 5 point switch out, so maybe try to fit a few more raiders in and find your meta balance of "enough" dark light. Warriors can have a mix of venoms or raiders for rides. The oppportunity cost of Vect is the killer, what else could we have.

W/D/L isn't bad, well done mate after a break.

I really like the list in my last post. The only other change I've considered are Night Shields, but they're simply too expensive and situational.

Personally I like Night Shields. When things like Bolters can glance then destroy me (go open topped), I like reducing their range, especially the rapid fire. Also helping my to not be in range of stuff on the otherside of the field, other eldar (both dark and light kin) and necrons is nice.

But ultimately it's one of those things that vary on personal preference and experience.

I've found they've helped me well enough, things being just out of range, things not being able to melta me etc. Several times people have gone to make shots at me and thanks to the NS being just out of range.

Any particular reason to go Shardnet and Impailer rather than Razorflails on the Wytches? Unless you can get that particular model in base contact with an enemy commander or someone with a nasty set of attacks, I would think the Razorflails would be better. I very much like the look of that last list you posted as well, and with a few extra purchases I'd be able to run it with what I'm buying. Might give it a try with some tweaks.

Primarily characters, Termies, and Dreads to be honest. Plus, a friend glued my army and that is what is on the models.

Wolf 11x wrote:Primarily characters, Termies, and Dreads to be honest. Plus, a friend glued my army and that is what is on the models.

Fair enough. I'm sitting here with a Wytch kit in front of me trying to decide which parts to put on the models and avoid having to magnetize. I don't ever plan on running a Wytch unit of larger than 9 models, so I can use the spare model for a different special weapon. Should I go Razorflail and Shardnet/Impaler, or Razorflail and Hydra Gauntlets.....bah! Decisions.

I actually like Hydra Gauntlets

@ Aldarionn
Shardnets work against PF and dreads, so you tarpit but are very unlikely to escape.
Gauntlets work great against GEQs with the opportunity for more swings and no less than what you would have started with, but then again you should kill them in CC anyway.
Razorflails give you the best edge against MEQs mathmatically. Last week played a game where 9 wyches charged 2 10 man marine squads and broke both of them off of the board. You are kinda vulnerable to dreads but picking where you are and dictating charges can make the difference.

My vote: Razorflails...or magnets.

I went with Razorflails on one and Hydra Gauntlets on the other because I like the look. I never intend to have more than 9 models in the squad because I always intend to have a Haemonculus with them in a Raider, so I'll almost always use the Razorflails. The Hydra Gauntlets are just a spare.