Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been reading as many posts and articles around the web as I can, concerning transport for my DC, and everywhere there are a whole bunch of people who comes out raving and ranting in the comment fields or in replies about just how stupid you are if you take Death company in your army. I've even experienced it here on dakka myself to some extent. A very small amount of the criticism is toward the points cost, which I get. Yes they're expensive. However, 97% (yes, I made that number up ) of the people point towards the rage rule. Just to give an example, here's the line which made me write this post: "I don't mean any disrespect, but have you actually used Death Company before? As soon as you let them out of the transport, they pretty much get one charge and then they're chasing skimmers for the rest of the game."

Now, I have used a small unit of DC, and I'm beginning to wonder if everyone (especially the guy I quoted) has just heard one cool guy say that once, and then they want to be like him so they repeat this over and over like some cult chant.

My point is this: I used 5 DC with JP and Chaplain (just to boost points so I could join a game with my tiny army), and playing against a friend who had almost never played before I told him about the kiting tactic against DC's. Now, what actually happened was that he couldn't move his speeder far enough to get out of charge range of my DC, without going so far away that his more valuable units wasn't closer. This was the case all game. Well, I thought that just happened because there was some trick to the kiting tactic that I didn't know about and thus couldn't tell my friend about, but just a couple days later I played against a different friend who is 100 times (yes, I made that up too) more experienced with 40K than I am. He tried the kiting tactic on the same squad, and EXACTLY the same thing happened. If he moved more than 18 inches away from the DC, one or more of his troops or tanks were closer, and if he didn't move 18 inches away from them, his speeder got wrecked. Plus, whenever I didn't want my DC to get too far away from whatever I wanted to destroy, I just threatened the speeder with a different JP unit.

Sure, two datapoints does not a statistic make, I realize this, but when listening to those shouty, raving lunatics who come out of the woodwork every time DC's are mentioned, you'd think that the guy I quoted above was correct 100% of the time. If that were the case, I should have experienced it in the game against the experienced player -at least-. And it's not like my table is small either (240cm x 120cm.)

Anyone else have an opinion on this? Was I just playing stupid opponents, or is it (as I suspect) just a fanboy thing to hate DC?

The Death Company being kited can be a serious issue, but I don't see it as a huge problem. If I were a BA player I would continue to run DC, as they are great, IMHO they are definitely worth taking, just make sure that they can kill whatever they come up against.

Thanks for your input, Lord Magnus.

Have you actually ever seen a DC unit with JP be successfully kited? If so, how?

No, but I have only played against Death Company twice, and this was a 1000+ point 30 man squad against my less than mobile Orks. JP DC are seen as lesser than Rhino mounted, because within a Rhino rage has no effect (If you move more than 6 you cannot charge) but really, after Rhino mounted DC are in the open, then they get kited. I think the best anti kiting tactic that DC can have would be a 5 man DC Squad, with a Sang priest or Reclusiarch, all with JPs in a Stormraven, they can get where they need without worrying about rage, and get what the need too do done.

I've played against DC plenty of times. They only disembark when they're right in front of your gunline, or if you blow their transport up they'll just run across to you anyway.
Rage might be an issue if they had to charge the nearest squad, but they only have to move so they can usually charge who they want.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Before actually trying the DC's myself, I believed that I had to use a transport to get them anywhere without being instantly kited. But after trying the 5 man DC JP Chaplain squad twice, I'm thinking about just keeping them that way, and supporting with an assault squad or something to take out kiters if they should succeed in kiting the DC.

I want a Land Raider or a Storm Raven in the army, but if it's not to transport DC, I don't know if I can justify it. Rather just take two baal's or another couple of furiosos w/drop pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:I've played against DC plenty of times. They only disembark when they're right in front of your gunline, or if you blow their transport up they'll just run across to you anyway.
Rage might be an issue if they had to charge the nearest squad, but they only have to move so they can usually charge who they want.

Really? I didn't know that. I thought they had to charge if they were in range. Got to look up that rule again. Thanks for mentioning it.

EDIT: Riiight. That's also an argument against the Rage rage. Thanks again for making me aware of that.

Biggest drawback of the Black Rage rule seems to be the 'no holding objective' part of it to me.

DC are expensive and are a troop choice... often, this mean that the BA player who takes DC is going to be skimpy on other troop choice because he's already struggling with points and well, he's already got 1 out of 2 troops, right?

I've lost count of how many time a DC using BA has lost a game due to lack of scoring units...

This is even worse in special mission or scenario (Cites of Death, Planetstrike, Apocalypse, etc) where quite often more than just troop (or hell, everything) is scoring... but the DC still aren't because of Black Rage. Nothing like seeing 20 tricked out DC totally murderize the units holding an objective in Apo only to have the BA player realise they still aren't scoring a point...

Agreed with Tarkand, Death Company aren't terrible, but they have 3 big flaws (in descending order):

3. Rage (easily remedied by getting them a transport)
2. They're expensive (even more so with jump packs)
1. Can't capture objectives!

Rage IS a huge disadvantage. Perhaps they won't always be chasing skimmers, but there will be plenty of times that they will be two inches closer to that rhino or terminator squad than to that Long Fang squad you really want to assault so that they will stop shooting those missiles at you. Or there will be a trukk or boyz squad closer than those lootas, etc. It's basically that you have little to no control over the unit in a game where target priority can be a very big deal.

All that being said, my number one gripe with them is definitely that they don't count as a scoring unit despite being troops. Above all else this, to me, disqualifies them as an include in most lists.

Panzerboy26 wrote:Rage IS a huge disadvantage. Perhaps they won't always be chasing skimmers, but there will be plenty of times that they will be two inches closer to that rhino or terminator squad than to that Long Fang squad you really want to assault so that they will stop shooting those missiles at you. Or there will be a trukk or boyz squad closer than those lootas, etc. It's basically that you have little to no control over the unit in a game where target priority can be a very big deal.

Chances are, though, that you'll want to take out those squads anyway. Plus, it puts pressure on the opponent to put something in front of the DC, and from the (admittedly few) games I've played with them, they'll take out pretty much anything if equipped with a selection of different weapons. In the game against the experienced player I was talking about earlier, that five man squad (plus chaplain) took out 10 termies, some tacs and a land speeder, which more than weighed up for the high points cost.

My experience so far has been that the enemy is trying so hard to neutralize the DC that it leaves huge room for the other elements in the army. And even though the DC are less than controllable, you can move other elements in your army in support of the DC. You don't have to play stupid just because one squad in your army behaves stupidly.

Panzerboy26 wrote:All that being said, my number one gripe with them is definitely that they don't count as a scoring unit despite being troops. Above all else this, to me, disqualifies them as an include in most lists.

I agree that the biggest problem with DC is that they aren't scoring, but neither are, say, terminators. I ditched Terminators in favor of DC, because if the termies are given weapon upgrades and a sanguinary priest in terminator armor, they become at least 40 points more expensive than a DC with upgraded weapons (3 PW, 2 PF), and the Termies still haven't got 5 WS. Adding a chaplain to that will make the DC more expensive, but to re-roll both to-hit and to-wound is amazing value in my opinion.

Both games I played with the BA army I won by annihilation, and it was the DC that won the games for me, just because I played to their strengths and used other units to minimize their weaknesses. And this was with an army I only put together from the squads I'd so far been able to afford to buy.

Sure, my experiences may be colored by luck or whatever, but so far I haven't experienced any of the major drawbacks that people keep warning me about. I guess I'll just have to play some more to discover them.

Has anyone had hands-on experience which backs up their negative opinions of the DC, or is it all a matter of repeating something someone else has said? Given my own experiences to date, my money is on the latter. But if the criticism is founded, I'm sure I'll see it soon, as I'll be playing the BA army several times this weekend.

If it turns out that the Black Rage really is such a giant disadvantage, what unit should I switch them out with? Termies? Sanguinary Guard? Assault Squads? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I play against a BA player all the time and he doesnt care about objectives at all. He play lots of death company 2 death company dreds with twin blood talons (they are sweet you should look into them) and his goal everygame is to wipe you of the board. And he does it well. I have only been playing about 2 yrs. But this is what Ive have learned. Play what you want. play often. and try everything you can and you ll find what works for you and your style

Lord Magnus wrote: I think the best anti kiting tactic that DC can have would be a 5 man DC Squad, with a Sang priest or Reclusiarch, all with JPs in a Stormraven, they can get where they need without worrying about rage, and get what the need too do done.

This is exactly what I do. The only problem is that 200pts is a lot to spend on a transport that is more likely to get blown to smithereens, leaving the DC on the ground and easily kited.

I've been running a pair of Stormravens with 5DC, DC dread, 5 TH/SS termies, Furiouso & Gabriel Seth with great success. While I only have two other troops choices, they get completely ignored because I am swamping opponents with 7 other high priority targets. Sometimes I'll squeeze in a Librarian or priest at 2000 points and it gets even meaner.

I also put JPs on my DC just in case their SR gets shot down, but after 10+ games I've never needed them.

Good to see the other side of the coin here too.

But now I see two of you saying you stick sang priests in the DC. For what purpose? DC already has FNP and FC.

buchan55 wrote:I play against a BA player all the time and he doesnt care about objectives at all. He play lots of death company 2 death company dreds with twin blood talons (they are sweet you should look into them) and his goal everygame is to wipe you of the board.

This is what I imagine my own tactic will be. Screw objectives, I want blood.

SgtSixkilla wrote:
Has anyone had hands-on experience which backs up their negative opinions of the DC, or is it all a matter of repeating something someone else has said? Given my own experiences to date, my money is on the latter. But if the criticism is founded, I'm sure I'll see it soon, as I'll be playing the BA army several times this weekend.

There was that time in an Apocalypse game (I mentionned this one earlier) where on turn 5, a huge units of 20 DC cleared out an objective... and didn't score a VP because of black rage.

I had occassion where Death Company where .5 inches closer to a fleeing unit of 2-3 guys than the actual squad they wanted to attack. By moving close to the fleeing squad, they didn't get to assault at all in the end - Here's the thing, even if they aren't 'kited the whole game', losing one phase of movement/assault in a game can really cost you.

In Planetstrike games (or any game with bunkers), DC often end up humping a bunker with someone in it, with no access to melta bomb and usually only 1 TC/PF in a squad, they are usually pretty inneffective at cracking those (and in PS, don't even count as holding the damn thing when they are in there).

I mean, if you want to keep thinking that I'm just repeating what other people say, knock yourself out... but you might want to play more than 2 (or is it 3?) games with your DC because you make sweeping statement like that.

I'm also a bit puzzled as to what/who you're playing against if a squad of 5 DC is that incredibly deadly...

I play BA and the first point I feel inclined to make is that DC can only be considered expensive with jump packs. Think about it- veteran stats, WS5, Fnp, Furious Charge and a better buff from chaplains. all for 2 points more than a schmoe assault marine or the same cost as a vanguard vet.
With that said, I can say I only used DC with JPs on two occasions directly after the codex came out. both times they beat up an inexpensive unit and then spent an inordinate time punching drop pods. not good for a unit that cost me over 400 points. Any unit of mine that can move that fast and cost 35 points a model better be controlled by me not beating up empty rhinos or drop pods. With a transport they can be aimed away from targets that are a waste of their time.

SgtSixkilla wrote:
I agree that the biggest problem with DC is that they aren't scoring, but neither are, say, terminators. I ditched Terminators in favor of DC, because if the termies are given weapon upgrades and a sanguinary priest in terminator armor, they become at least 40 points more expensive than a DC with upgraded weapons (3 PW, 2 PF), and the Termies still haven't got 5 WS. Adding a chaplain to that will make the DC more expensive, but to re-roll both to-hit and to-wound is amazing value in my opinion.

Both games I played with the BA army I won by annihilation, and it was the DC that won the games for me, just because I played to their strengths and used other units to minimize their weaknesses. And this was with an army I only put together from the squads I'd so far been able to afford to buy.

Sure, my experiences may be colored by luck or whatever, but so far I haven't experienced any of the major drawbacks that people keep warning me about. I guess I'll just have to play some more to discover them.

Has anyone had hands-on experience which backs up their negative opinions of the DC, or is it all a matter of repeating something someone else has said? Given my own experiences to date, my money is on the latter. But if the criticism is founded, I'm sure I'll see it soon, as I'll be playing the BA army several times this weekend.

If it turns out that the Black Rage really is such a giant disadvantage, what unit should I switch them out with? Termies? Sanguinary Guard? Assault Squads? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Well, for my personal experience with them, I play Eldar most regularly, skimmer heavy Eldar. I've never have any serious issue in dealing with them, mostly because I make sure to obliterate their transport, and then have them chase a Skimmer from 19" away. It's generally worth it, as in my experience if people field Death Company, it's rarely a small unit, generally at least 8-9 man with a character of some sort, and worth making sure it does nothing.

Against my Imperial Guard they are really no more threatening than anything else in the BA army, as it doesn't take much to wipe out 10 dudes in flak armor, or the tank they are riding in in CC. The FNP also often matters little, as the shots I am slinging at them are generally high str/low AP enough to ignore it.

And generally I think that normal BA assault squads are good enough most of the time, especially when there are Priests about.

Both the storm raven and death company suffer from negative press. I used both together with a dc dread with talons. Basically drop off whatever needs to go where. I run astorath and a priest and 3 assault squads plus vvs. The vets can tie something up or take out something that may kite the dc around. The dread has fleet but you can shoot something if your close enough or need a vehicle opened to remove its contents from the board. Just avoid mc and you'll be fine.

Overall I have no problem except against high initiative power weapons. That is where the weakness is.

Tarkand wrote:

There was that time in an Apocalypse game (I mentionned this one earlier) where on turn 5, a huge units of 20 DC cleared out an objective... and didn't score a VP because of black rage.

But surely you knew this going into the battle, right? You need to take the non-scoring element into account. The same thing would have happened if you'd gone in with Termies. Knowing they're not scoring, why didn't you follow up with a scoring unit? If you couldn't, then you couldn't have taken that objective anyway. It stands to reason that you don't take DC instead of another troop choice, you take them instead of an elite choice. It's self-defeating to replace a scoring unit with a non-scoring unit, especially when the rules doesn't say you have to take elite choices.

Tarkand wrote:
I had occassion where Death Company where .5 inches closer to a fleeing unit of 2-3 guys than the actual squad they wanted to attack. By moving close to the fleeing squad, they didn't get to assault at all in the end - Here's the thing, even if they aren't 'kited the whole game', losing one phase of movement/assault in a game can really cost you.

This is true, but I can't imagine this specific incident has happened more than once. It's incredibly specific. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tarkand wrote:
In Planetstrike games (or any game with bunkers), DC often end up humping a bunker with someone in it, with no access to melta bomb and usually only 1 TC/PF in a squad, they are usually pretty inneffective at cracking those (and in PS, don't even count as holding the damn thing when they are in there).

I've never played planetstrike, and I doubt I ever will, but based on what you say, if I ever happen to play PS, I probably won't take DC. You have to consider what you are playing, and what you are playing against. But since that is the case for every single game, I thought it was self evident, and I didn't bother to say it before. Of course not -all- units are equally good -all- the time. I'm certain that there are games where a vanilla marine player wouldn't take devastators, for example. Or I may be wrong. As I've said throughout this thread.

Tarkand wrote:
I mean, if you want to keep thinking that I'm just repeating what other people say, knock yourself out... but you might want to play more than 2 (or is it 3?) games with your DC because you make sweeping statement like that.

I'm not making sweeping statements, buddy. I said it -seems- like that's the case -based on my experience-, and I also stated -clearly- that I knew that my experience wasn't extensive and that I could be wrong. Trouble is that before this post that I'm quoting now, the only specific example anyone gave me was the one you repeated in the post that I'm quoting, which quite frankly, I thought was a pretty bad example for the very reason that I gave earlier in this post. Previous to your post which I'm quoting here, everything I heard was the obvious reasons why Rage was a drawback, which is the EXACT thing I made this thread about. I wanted to hear other people's experiences with DC squads, and why my experiences were so different from the rants I'd read around the web.

Tarkand wrote:
I'm also a bit puzzled as to what/who you're playing against if a squad of 5 DC is that incredibly deadly...

I told you what, and who is inconsequential. The fact remains that the DC won me the two games I've played with my BA army, an army which, to be honest, is way below par because of the reasons I've already mentioned in an earlier post. It's not necessarily that the DC with Chaplain was so very deadly, but that I played the rest of the army to minimize the drawbacks of the DC squad, which made them account for a lot more points than I paid for them.

Listen, I'm not -trying- to be rude to you, and when I talk about people repeating what others have said, I'm not talking specifically about you personally. You'll notice that I said that the first time before you even replied in this thread. I apologize for what I said that made you feel provoked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Panzerboy26 wrote:

Well, for my personal experience with them, I play Eldar most regularly, skimmer heavy Eldar. I've never have any serious issue in dealing with them, mostly because I make sure to obliterate their transport, and then have them chase a Skimmer from 19" away.

That was my point. In both the games I used DC, the opponent couldn't do that, because either the skimmer was within 18", or there was another unit that was. The only time the skimmer managed to get outside range of the DC and still be the closest unit to them, it was so close to one of my assault squads that they took it out. This was the reason I raised the topic. My table is bigger than the standard 6' by 4', and the opponent still couldn't do it.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

That was my point. In both the games I used DC, the opponent couldn't do that, because either the skimmer was within 18", or there was another unit that was. The only time the skimmer managed to get outside range of the DC and still be the closest unit to them, it was so close to one of my assault squads that they took it out. This was the reason I raised the topic. My table is bigger than the standard 6' by 4', and the opponent still couldn't do it.

I don't know what army your friend runs, or what terrain you were using, but I can assure you that 'I' would be able to do it

The key is to make sure that the rest of your army is away from him, moving away if they have to. It's very easy to do if your army is full mech. If he has the first turn and a fast skimmer? It would be very easy for him to pull your JP unit well out of position at an odd angle away from the rest of his force. Even if it's only a turn or two he buys by making you jump back across the table, that's pressure he doesn't have to deal with until he has the firepower to spare for it.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

Tarkand wrote:

There was that time in an Apocalypse game (I mentionned this one earlier) where on turn 5, a huge units of 20 DC cleared out an objective... and didn't score a VP because of black rage.

But surely you knew this going into the battle, right? You need to take the non-scoring element into account. The same thing would have happened if you'd gone in with Termies. Knowing they're not scoring, why didn't you follow up with a scoring unit? If you couldn't, then you couldn't have taken that objective anyway. It stands to reason that you don't take DC instead of another troop choice, you take them instead of an elite choice. It's self-defeating to replace a scoring unit with a non-scoring unit, especially when the rules doesn't say you have to take elite choices.

In Apocalypse, everything is scoring. Except stuff that specifically said to never be scoring - i.e. DC. So yes, a bunch of Terminators doing the same thing would have been scoring.

Even in normal game tho, DC don't really fill any role that Assault Marines within 6'' of priest don't do equally well, for less points and while being scoring and while remaining under your control at all time. While it's easy to say 'I'll take them instead of elites' - they also don't really fill the same role the BA elites do. If you start to kite them up with power weapons and stormshield and what not, they quickly become incredibly expensive.

You're getting Assault Marin+1 over which you have little control... in a strategy game.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
I had occassion where Death Company where .5 inches closer to a fleeing unit of 2-3 guys than the actual squad they wanted to attack. By moving close to the fleeing squad, they didn't get to assault at all in the end - Here's the thing, even if they aren't 'kited the whole game', losing one phase of movement/assault in a game can really cost you.

This is true, but I can't imagine this specific incident has happened more than once. It's incredibly specific. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This specific situation? Yeah, it only happened once.

However, it illustrate how easy DC are to control and manipulate. Flat out, your opponent is playing them, not you.

You're perfectly right in thinking the whole 'running after a skimmer the whole game' is an exaggeration. But they don't need to be kitted an entire game for it to do a difference. Even losing 1 or 2 turn because you're running after a turbo-boosting deffkopta can cost you a game. Yeah, you'll grab the kopta and eat it. But if that Kopta means you can't charge my nobz squad and they then multi-assault 2 of your units and slaughter them, the damage is done.

Not being able to control your DC is a huge disadvantage, and not only because they may get kitted around for a turn or 2 every other game.

Try them out against a Dark Eldar and his entire fast army with Incubi (who will, point for point, destroy your DC, while barely scratching Hammernator for example) and a dozen lances. Try them out against a IG, and see how well having to move in a straight line and not hug cover works against a Leman Russ Battle tanks S8 AP3 tempates works out for you.

There's dozens of match up out there (and I'm not talking really weird obscure list here, but pretty standard all comer stuff) where your jump pack DC won't do much of anything but die in the first or 2nd phase of shooting. And you'd realize that if you had played them more than 2 times >_>.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
In Planetstrike games (or any game with bunkers), DC often end up humping a bunker with someone in it, with no access to melta bomb and usually only 1 TC/PF in a squad, they are usually pretty inneffective at cracking those (and in PS, don't even count as holding the damn thing when they are in there).

I've never played planetstrike, and I doubt I ever will, but based on what you say, if I ever happen to play PS, I probably won't take DC. You have to consider what you are playing, and what you are playing against. But since that is the case for every single game, I thought it was self evident, and I didn't bother to say it before. Of course not -all- units are equally good -all- the time. I'm certain that there are games where a vanilla marine player wouldn't take devastators, for example. Or I may be wrong. As I've said throughout this thread.

True, but you wanted weaknesses of Rage, I gave you one. PS isn't the only scenario with bunkers (in fact, you can technically have some in normal games if you so wish it) and is only one example of how they can be controlled. Having them chase off a Monolith while taking shooting casualties every turn is equally hilarious.

SgtSixkilla wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
'm also a bit puzzled as to what/who you're playing against if a squad of 5 DC is that incredibly deadly...

I told you what, and who is inconsequential. The fact remains that the DC won me the two games I've played with my BA army, an army which, to be honest, is way below par because of the reasons I've already mentioned in an earlier post. It's not necessarily that the DC with Chaplain was so very deadly, but that I played the rest of the army to minimize the drawbacks of the DC squad, which made them account for a lot more points than I paid for them.

Listen, I'm not -trying- to be rude to you, and when I talk about people repeating what others have said, I'm not talking specifically about you personally. You'll notice that I said that the first time before you even replied in this thread. I apologize for what I said that made you feel provoked.

If you're able to outplay your opponents attempts to control your jump pack DC (an extremely easy feat), you are a far better player than they are and would most likely win without them... you're in fact handicapping yourself here .

I field 8-10 DC in a Land Raider. Usually with a reclusiarch or Chappy. I love them!

Never ran them with packs as it's way overcosted.

You could always do what one cheesy guy does at my LGS. He runs an all DC list and turns them all around backwards so they can't see and don't have to Rage.

Yes, groan inducing I know.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:You could always do what one cheesy guy does at my LGS. He runs an all DC list and turns them all around backwards so they can't see and don't have to Rage.

Yes, groan inducing I know.

Great, now I've got the image of an army of 2m-tall berserkers covering their eyes and shouting "LALALALAAA I CAN'T SEE YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU YOU'RE NOT HERE LALALAAA".

Interesting bit about the Land Raider, I was wondering if that could work. Hard to destroy outright (if it arrives in melta range, it's basically done its job), assault vehicle, and with its bulk you could try to maneuver to block the DC's line of sight.

I love my Death company.

I run 5 men with lemartes, all jump pack, all power weapon. what I wish I have done is to swap 1 or 2 to power fist.

I have played them like 6 to 9 games; generally there are 2 type of response. your opponent either ignore them, or they are well scare of them.

there were couple of games that my opponent ignored them and try to kill off other troop choice, then they will pay because on charge death company is very deadly.

since those couple of games, people know about death company and will do everything to shoot them / kill them off. that means that the rest of your army can do what they like. i.e. use death company as decoy.

which ever way it goes, the problem that I find is that Death company will have serious trouble when faceing dreadnoughts; 6 to hit and av 13, the dread will grind them down.

apart from that when ever death company charge it is usually overkill. I wiped out 5 termi once, but I sure I could have kill about 10 to 12, just that multi charge opportunity can be rare.

so althought I love my DC, these days I dont take them, in their place I take assault squad 2 melta, pw, add libby, add chaplain and add priest. it is a unit that have much more wounds, can re-roll, although cannot reroll wounds, but usually it is sufficient to clear out what ever it is trying to kill.

I think Death Companies are pretty good. You get furius charge, rerentles and feel no pain, WS 5 2 attacks for 20 points.

Not Scoring: Up until the point where you actualy need all 6 troop slots for scoring (unlikly since you can combat squad) you are esentialy trading a troop slot for an elite slot.

Rage: Keep them in transports, or just be shure to spread them out (remember you measure closest from your squad, not on a model basis. (If you disagree there are some old threads disgussing this.)) In short, if you just move corectly you can often negate rage. (Long range suport also helps.)

Deliverance: Some people take a land raider/storm raven death star, others use Jump Packs. A rhino also works since 5 people with a power weapon or more with a fist is sutch a huge threath.

As for killing them you need AP 2 blast templates or power weaponds. Numbers of attacks can also do it but killing 3+ 4+ feel no pain is just as hard as killing terminators.

However, in my local meta they often take a lott of priests, rendering the death company obsolete. (With 2 / 3 priests in the army I do not think the WS5/Rage/2 attacks are worth it. Usualy a 2/3 priest army has many asoult marines from before.)

As plenty of people on dakkadakka say the 2 downsides to DC are rage and cost, so let's look at those 2 issues.

Rage as an issue becomes a larger issue as the price tag of a DC unit goes up. If an empty rhino tank shocks a 600 point deathstar of DC and forces them to move away from where they want to go it's a big deal. If the same thing happens to a 100 point unit of DC it's not the end of the world. Therefor as long as the cost isn't to high the rage issue isn't much of an issue.

Cost can quickly become an issue as a single unit of DC can cost anywhere from 60 to 2850 points. That being said DC don't have to cost an arm and a leg.

5 Nakid DC = same cost as 5 assault marines with jump packs

4 nakid DC +1 with power fist in a razorback costs 7 points more than 5 assault marines + melta + powerfist in the same razorback.

In an army with razorback spam 5 DC + reclusiarch is inexpensive enough that rage should not be a big issue. I would just keep DC cheap by keeping them nakid or with a single power fist. All power weapons make them about as expensive as terminators, and mixing power weapons with regular attacks results in the loss of power weapon wounds due to would allocation shenanigans.

I'm definitely going to include at least 5 DC in my army if only to have access to the Dread. Equipping them with JPs, adding a Chappy/Reclusiarch/LEMARTES!!!! and propping them in a Storm Raven seem like the next logical steps.

I love the 6X5 DC list with enough lemartes chappies and reclusiarchs for each one. It's not the most competitive build in the world but it is smashing good fun.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:I field 8-10 DC in a Land Raider. Usually with a reclusiarch or Chappy. I love them!

Never ran them with packs as it's way overcosted.

You could always do what one cheesy guy does at my LGS. He runs an all DC list and turns them all around backwards so they can't see and don't have to Rage.

Yes, groan inducing I know.

And no one ever informed him that infantry have 360 degree line of sight? Weird.

Yeah, that's not exactly represented in the rules. try and find it.