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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILxjxfB4zNk&sns=fb

This is a new video that has come out in Britain by the British Heart Foundation advocating and showing the public hands only CPR. I know some people will already know but thought it would be good to put it out there.

Speaking as a nurse, it's great that the BHF has put a video out that shows the hands only CPR method.

Trust me, when vomit, blood and other delicious bodily fluids are flowing from the victims mouth, mouth to mouth is the last thing that you want too do....I know, I've been there....

Its just quite shocking that so many people don't know the diffence between the two and automatically go for the mouth to mouth that they need release an ad like this. I mean it was standard (as of two years ago at least) for this to be taught at the twice anual school "health days" that were required attendance in Scotland, as is it also part of similar staff training days throughout the public service. Just goes to show many people have either been misinformed, or ironically pulled a sicky on these days. =/

...Vinny Joans has gotten old though. -Sensible contribution.

I've seen that here in the US. I thought it was interesting that and it is the right way to do sign language.

It doesn't help that the sequence taught kept changing. When I did a first aid course in the army, I was taught a ratio of 14:2 IIRC, but apparently that was changed later. At least this way it is much easier to remember and carry out.

I saw this. The "Here's one I made earlier" bit cracked me up.

Now I can't get the picture of someone on Blue Peter saying "Always do this on a table that is ok to get messy, and get your parents permission first. Now first of, we check him over..."

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Speaking as a nurse, it's great that the BHF has put a video out that shows the hands only CPR method.

Trust me, when vomit, blood and other delicious bodily fluids are flowing from the victims mouth, mouth to mouth is the last thing that you want too do....I know, I've been there....

Thankfully I have not yet had to deal with one. But trying to get a job in the NHS and my 16 years in St John and now being ambulance crew for them, will mean much higher chance. I like being able to use BVM.

filbert wrote:It doesn't help that the sequence taught kept changing. When I did a first aid course in the army, I was taught a ratio of 14:2 IIRC, but apparently that was changed later. At least this way it is much easier to remember and carry out.

I’ve always known it as a ratio of 15:3.

Why, specifically, have they stopped the whole mouth–to–mouth resuscitation in the new ‘ads’?

Well...
Vinnie Jones should be on Blue Peter...

Kodanshi wrote:

filbert wrote:It doesn't help that the sequence taught kept changing. When I did a first aid course in the army, I was taught a ratio of 14:2 IIRC, but apparently that was changed later. At least this way it is much easier to remember and carry out.

I’ve always known it as a ratio of 15:3.

Why, specifically, have they stopped the whole mouth–to–mouth resuscitation in the new ‘ads’?

Well precisely for that reason; if you haven't been on a first aid course you are likely to screw it up (and even if you have been on a course you might panic and forget in the heat of the moment). Plus, as alluded to above, some people would be put off giving mouth to mouth in some circumstances as sad as that sounds.

At least this way, all people have to remember is to do chest compressions to the beat of 'Staying Alive'. And to be honest, it is probably a more productive thing to do to try and resuscitate someone this way given how low the success rate is for a bystander actually resuscitating someone.

Research shows that compressions are more effective than breaths. Each compression draws in some air anyway. Also consider most of the time you will be doing CPR on a fully grown adult therefore it most likely to be cardiac problem than respiratory, therefore compressions important. The new ratio is 30:2 at a rate of 100-120 min to reflect that.

They also say if your not happy to do it, don't give them. Compressions are more important and more likely to save a persons life. Breaths are more important on children, infants and those who have drowned.

Yeah, I'm taking Health in school this semester. We learned how to give CPR.

Breaths actually were found to do little that compressions couldn't.

A lot of people feel obliged to do the kiss of life, and are uncomfortable with it, so they remove themselves from the emergency altogether.

The Fray know.

^ That was actually what went to my head when I read the thread title, haha.

Gah as a lifeguard I have to say the tips in the video are horrible.

1) When someone collapses you dont automatically assume someone that stops breathing = heart stops. Making this whole video wrong already.
Maybe they just passed out, or choked or something, or some medical condition, or environmental trauma.

2) You dont lift someones head up by the throat, you lift it by under their chin tip, at the same time YOU CHECK FOR PULSE
see this is important time to know whether the victim needs CPR or m2m. The other good part about alternating cpr and m2m is if you are alone without bystanders
you are able to keep the air way open atleast sometimes instead of NEVER.

3) You dont make a random compressor out of your hand especially if you are adult. You need to take 1-2 seconds to make sure you are clear of the zyphoid process.
Or else you have a 9 in 10 chance of breaking it off and turning it into a knife that jabs the internal organs mainly lungs EVERY TIME you push down.
Which is more harm than good considering point 1, the guy might already have a pulse just not breathing and puncturing their lungs does not help LOL

And they really need to include a brief explanation on how to do CPR on children.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Speaking as a nurse, it's great that the BHF has put a video out that shows the hands only CPR method.

Trust me, when vomit, blood and other delicious bodily fluids are flowing from the victims mouth, mouth to mouth is the last thing that you want too do....I know, I've been there....

Assuming the victim didnt suffer neck or back injury, m2m is good well, breath in the victim deep -> prone position the victim
its a good way to get rid of the foreign liquid + improve A.R.D.S

The video wins because Vinnie Jones is in it....
Was pretty funny, and i'm sure gets its message across. I have done a first aid course fairly recently, its nice to know how to do things correct on the off chance you need to do them.

LunaHound wrote:And they really need to include a brief explanation on how to do CPR on children.

^ This. You definitely cannot press too hard, and you can’t blow into the mouths of tiny babies or else their lungs might burst

LunaHound wrote:Gah as a lifeguard I have to say the tips in the video are horrible.

1) When someone collapses you dont automatically assume someone that stops breathing = heart stops. Making this whole video wrong already.
Maybe they just passed out, or choked or something, or some medical condition, or environmental trauma.

2) You dont lift someones head up by the throat, you lift it by under their chin tip, at the same time YOU CHECK FOR PULSE
see this is important time to know whether the victim needs CPR or m2m. The other good part about alternating cpr and m2m is if you are alone without bystanders
you are able to keep the air way open atleast sometimes instead of NEVER.

3) You dont make a random compressor out of your hand especially if you are adult. You need to take 1-2 seconds to make sure you are clear of the zyphoid process.
Or else you have a 9 in 10 chance of breaking it off and turning it into a knife that jabs the internal organs mainly lungs EVERY TIME you push down.
Which is more harm than good considering point 1, the guy might already have a pulse just not breathing and puncturing their lungs does not help LOL

And they really need to include a brief explanation on how to do CPR on children.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Speaking as a nurse, it's great that the BHF has put a video out that shows the hands only CPR method.

Trust me, when vomit, blood and other delicious bodily fluids are flowing from the victims mouth, mouth to mouth is the last thing that you want too do....I know, I've been there....

Assuming the victim didnt suffer neck or back injury, m2m is good well, breath in the victim deep -> prone position the victim
its a good way to get rid of the foreign liquid + improve A.R.D.S

If your pressing down by the process you are doing something wrong, where they showed was exactly right place, marked it with the jewelry. Breaking ribs is a common part of the process, not unusual, The whole pulse checking isn't taught widely over here in this situation, mainly because in a panic people can detect their own pulse instead or not able to find it at all. Rescue Breaths are a part of CPR, with compressions air is drawn in and are more effective overall for the body and overall health. If you want to perform it effectively you ideally want 2 people, one holding BVM to face with airway open, the other performing compressions and 'bagging'. Also with AED. None of this nearby compressions alone can be enough till help arrives. Not many people I know would do mouth to mouth, unless a face shield is present, that is coming from a number of paramedics, nurses and doctors I know. Would you really want to put your mouth onto another strangers?

Azza007 wrote:If your pressing down by the process you are doing something wrong, where they showed was exactly right place, marked it with the jewelry. Breaking ribs is a common part of the process, not unusual, The whole pulse checking isn't taught widely over here in this situation, mainly because in a panic people can detect their own pulse instead or not able to find it at all. Rescue Breaths are a part of CPR, with compressions air is drawn in and are more effective overall for the body and overall health. If you want to perform it effectively you ideally want 2 people, one holding BVM to face with airway open, the other performing compressions and 'bagging'. Also with AED. None of this nearby compressions alone can be enough till help arrives. Not many people I know would do mouth to mouth, unless a face shield is present, that is coming from a number of paramedics, nurses and doctors I know. Would you really want to put your mouth onto another strangers?

1) Considering the size of that guy's hand? It can easily be on the process if the victim isnt similar in size stature.

2) Breaking zyphoid is way worse than breaking ribs

3) It doesnt matter if breath is part of CPR are or not, im responding to the VIDEO

4) The essential difference between the "until help arrive" method is different than ours. Because where life guards are, there are often NO HELP around till its too late.

5) Will i do m2m to strangers? Well that depends how badly i want to save the life lol xD

1) I'm roughly same size as Vinnie, and child Annie's I have had no problem with size.

3) The video says to perform compressions only, which can still help save someones life, yes breaths are good, but that is what scares people most, or seems to at least. If I had no face shield I would only perform breaths on a young child or infant, not on an adult unless drowning suspected.

4) I class until help arrives as someone in an ambulance arrives to take over with Advanced Life Support and can take them to hospital. Just because I'm crew with St John doesn't mean I will always have kit with me. More often than not all I have is a basic first aid kit that will do nothing beyond provide face shield. So I have to wait for help as long as anyone else.

5) The point of the video is that just compressions can save the life on its own, or keep them alive till help arrives.

The biggest problem could be that people would assume they get up just like that, also they will be given instructions over the phone as to what to do by the EOC.

Azza007 wrote:1) I'm roughly same size as Vinnie, and child Annie's I have had no problem with size.

3) The video says to perform compressions only, which can still help save someones life, yes breaths are good, but that is what scares people most, or seems to at least. If I had no face shield I would only perform breaths on a young child or infant, not on an adult unless drowning suspected.

4) I class until help arrives as someone in an ambulance arrives to take over with Advanced Life Support and can take them to hospital. Just because I'm crew with St John doesn't mean I will always have kit with me. More often than not all I have is a basic first aid kit that will do nothing beyond provide face shield. So I have to wait for help as long as anyone else.

5) The point of the video is that just compressions can save the life on its own, or keep them alive till help arrives.

The biggest problem could be that people would assume they get up just like that, also they will be given instructions over the phone as to what to do by the EOC.

1) Thats because in theory i assume you already have knowledge where to place your hand. In the video, he just SLAPS HIS HANDS ON.
Which is the concern about pressing on the zyphoid.
3) Like i said, depends whether you want to save a life or not or you want to "save a life Butttttttttt this that this that etc etc"
4) Im assuming you are paramedic? like i already said, you guys have back up and only have few options to tackle before back up arrives.
Lifeguard often have none, they'll live or die in our hands. So for you guys a few messing steps are ok, but not for us and our situations.

5) Perhaps it can, but why not take 2 easier steps to ensure the success rate? That is my point.

LunaHound wrote:

Azza007 wrote:If your pressing down by the process you are doing something wrong, where they showed was exactly right place, marked it with the jewelry. Breaking ribs is a common part of the process, not unusual, The whole pulse checking isn't taught widely over here in this situation, mainly because in a panic people can detect their own pulse instead or not able to find it at all. Rescue Breaths are a part of CPR, with compressions air is drawn in and are more effective overall for the body and overall health. If you want to perform it effectively you ideally want 2 people, one holding BVM to face with airway open, the other performing compressions and 'bagging'. Also with AED. None of this nearby compressions alone can be enough till help arrives. Not many people I know would do mouth to mouth, unless a face shield is present, that is coming from a number of paramedics, nurses and doctors I know. Would you really want to put your mouth onto another strangers?

1) Considering the size of that guy's hand? It can easily be on the process if the victim isnt similar in size stature.

2) Breaking zyphoid is way worse than breaking ribs

3) It doesnt matter if breath is part of CPR are or not, im responding to the VIDEO

4) The essential difference between the "until help arrive" method is different than ours. Because where life guards are, there are often NO HELP around till its too late.

5) Will i do m2m to strangers? Well that depends how badly i want to save the life lol xD

As I've actually done assisted CPR to save a life, I feel I can comment a bit better. First of all, The Sternum is actually immensely stronger than it looks. Its an ossified cartilegenous fragment after all, quite a bit stronger than ribs. CPR doesn't actually save lives, but sets people up for defribulation, rather than just waking em up. And those who do survive have massive complications as a result. Essentially, breaking the ribs on an adult can actually save a life.

3. Well, m2m is actually additional, most CPR needy do not require M2M simply because they need circulation to get the air round the system and thats where CPR comes in.

I liked the video, but it left out the ratio of 100 pushes a minute. It is very hard work to administer CPR. I have seen an ambulance actually rock with someone doing CPR on a heart attack victim (actually slightly wrong action).

Love the context, and love the awesomeness of vinny.

Read my post before the one you quoted so you dont miss the context of my response.

I am a volunteer in St John Ambulance, we are mostly people who are not health care professionals. If we have to perform CPR we still need to call for an ambulance, even if We have one of ours there as we do not carry drugs beyond oxygen and entonox, or advanced techniques such as intubation. Most of the stuff I can do are things a member of the public can also do when it comes to it.

Any member of the public can use an AED, I can only give oxygen with some airway assists and a bag.

He points out where to place your hands. Watch it again and listen to what he says, right on the medallion or whatever its called. also shows how the hands should be.

The odds for surviving the out of hospital arrest are slim even if witnessed, immediate CPR with AED commenced and ambulance there straight away still not great odds. If I remember correctly it is less than 15% chance of survival with all of that. Rescue Breaths will have almost 0 impact on the chances of success, hence the huge phase out and focus on compressions, it is internationally recognised.

When I was regularly being retrained on CPR, I think I went through at least 4 different ratios.

I'm glad it's so simple now.

Do you know how to save a life?

Yes. Tourniquet to the neck. Works every time.

Okay Luna, the actual location I have been taught (by practising ER workers) is a hand and a half down from the throat.

And yes, again CPR is an emergency decision, it will feth you right up, but better than being dead. You can repair holes to the lungs rather than death.

And actually, Paramedics can't afford to skip steps either. I've seen paramedics perform CPR for approx ten minutes while trying to revive someone and get them to hospital whilst on my observation shift.

AustonT wrote:Do you know how to save a life?

Yes. Tourniquet to the neck. Works every time.

Like on the TV show drawn together, my semen posesses healing properties.

Therefore, I need ejaculate on the sick and wounded.

Thus, I save lives.

Doctadeth wrote:Okay Luna, the actual location I have been taught (by practising ER workers) is a hand and a half down from the throat.

For? thats highly impractical depending on the size of your hand compared to your victim.

Doctadeth wrote:And yes, again CPR is an emergency decision, it will feth you right up, but better than being dead. You can repair holes to the lungs rather than death.

The point is? have i anywhere in this thread said not to perform CPR?

My work gives us annual CPR, First Aid, and defibrillator training that I feel very fortunate to get.

I also have red cross CPR, life guard, and swim instructor training.