Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i came across this statement in a different forum:

"The Deffrolla works in an odd way. It also gets the d6 hits on a skimmer that dodged it, because of the FAQ. When in doubt, assume the deffrolla hits you. When you think it should stop the deffrolla, the deffrolla hits you."

Is this correct? and can someone please explain how it works?

No, if you've dodged the deffrolla you've dodged it.

The deffrolla gets +d6 extra attacks if you death or glory it, dodging is not a death or glory.

No it is not correct. If a skimmer dodges, no TS ever happened

You must succeed a tank shock/ram to get the deff roller hits. A skimmer has a special dodge rule against such moves, meaning the ram never connected, and the deff roller didn't activate. Follow the sequence of events.

That depends on whether the Deffrolla hits are 'part of the Ram' or not.

The FAQ doesn't say anything specifically about this. It does say that vehicles Rammed by a Deff Rolla-equipped Battlewagon take d6 S10 hits. So the question is, if you try to Ram a Skimmer and it rolls a 3 or higher, has it ACTUALLY been Rammed?

Logically, I am inclined to say no. RAW, I suspect it might be yes. It depends on the exact wording of the Skimmer rules, which I can't recall right now, and I don't have my BGB so I can't look it up. If Skimmers are described as getting a SAVE against the Ram, then I think the Deff Rolla does still hit them; they must have been Rammed in order to save against it, after all, and the Deff Rolla hits aren't the same thing as the normal Ram hit. However, if the Skimmer rules use some other descriptor ('nothing happens' or the like) then no, the Deff Rolla would not hit them.

RAW it has not been Rammed

juraigamer wrote:You must succeed a tank shock/ram to get the deff roller hits. A skimmer has a special dodge rule against such moves, meaning the ram never connected, and the deff roller didn't activate. Follow the sequence of events.

Does this same rule apply to infantry? The deff rolla hits only occur if the unit fails the dodge morale test? I only ask because that doesn't seem likely.

I think that if the situation I asked above were the case then the extra attacks would occur if the dodge failed as well. I think it would be specifically written in there. So, I agree that if the skimmer dodges the tank shock it dodges it all, but I think that in the case of infantry they take D6 hits and then see if the fail the morale section of the attack. Otherwise the rolla is a neat novelty, but is hardly that effective against anything other than tanks that can't get out of the way.

MakersHitstheMark wrote:

Does this same rule apply to infantry? The deff rolla hits only occur if the unit fails the dodge morale test? I only ask because that doesn't seem likely.

I think that if the situation I asked above were the case then the extra attacks would occur if the dodge failed as well. I think it would be specifically written in there. So, I agree that if the skimmer dodges the tank shock it dodges it all, but I think that in the case of infantry they take D6 hits and then see if the fail the morale section of the attack. Otherwise the rolla is a neat novelty, but is hardly that effective against anything other than tanks that can't get out of the way.

Infantry don't ever get a dodge. It's a special rule that applies only to Skimmers. Anything else hit with a Deff Rolla is guaranteed 1d6 S10 hits; if they try to DoG, then succeed or not they're guaranteed ANOTHER d6, for a total of 2d6 S10 hits.

nosferatu1001 wrote:RAW it has not been Rammed

Would you mind quoting the rule?

Page 71: "On a 3+ the skimmer avoids the tank, neither vehicle suffers any damage. . ."

Thanks, kirsanth.

In that case, sirlynchmob, whatever forum you read that on is wrong; a skimmer who dodges a Ram attempt also dodges the Deff Rolla, and will not take any hits at all.

Thats what I was thinking, but I wanted to double check. Thanks for all the inputs. The person who posted it never replyed to me as to why

I have seen people argue that the Deff Rolla still does hit, as the skimmer just dodges the ram damage, but the ram itself still takes place.

I think that explanation is really stretching the rules and don't agree with it. But, you may see some people playing that way.

As with many issues involving the Deff Rolla (is it hull?), it's best to quickly go over them with your opponent pre-game.

in addition to what kirsanth pointed out, the rules also state that if the skimmer does dodge a ram, then that vehicle that is ramming stops in it's tracks, as the crew is basically trying to figure out wtf happened

Grakmar wrote:I have seen people argue that the Deff Rolla still does hit, as the skimmer just dodges the ram damage, but the ram itself still takes place.

I think that explanation is really stretching the rules and don't agree with it. But, you may see some people playing that way.

As with many issues involving the Deff Rolla (is it hull?), it's best to quickly go over them with your opponent pre-game.

Not sure how it can even be argued...I'm an Ork player and I'm all for it working that way, but it's pretty darn clear that it doesn't.

As Nos said, the hits only occur if the Ram is successful. If the Skimmer dodges it, the ram doesn't happen, and therefore the hits never take place.

I agree with the current view, if the ram never happened then the skimmer was never hit thus meaning the deff rolla didn't get any use.

Even if the tank shock/ram still happened neither vehicle would suffer any damage from it - deff rolla causes the the tank shock to deal damage, it doesn't activate and deal damage by itself.

I'd also like to point out that the wording in the German ork codex is a bit off, resulting in the skimmer still taking damage from the deff rolla.

Jidmah wrote:Even if the tank shock/ram still happened neither vehicle would suffer any damage from it - deff rolla causes the the tank shock to deal damage, it doesn't activate and deal damage by itself.

I'd also like to point out that the wording in the German ork codex is a bit off, resulting in the skimmer still taking damage from the deff rolla.

well that's interesting, I'm going to have to learn German and get their codex

So if I show up with a German codex in America, can I always do damage to skimmers, or would I have to move to Germany for that to work? Its just odd that the way something works is different for different areas.

Our trukks also always explode the full 6"

In return, you don't get to put heavy weapons on nob squad leaders. They always get you somehow.

The names of german ork units are also pretty funky:
"Deff Kopta" to "Killakopta"
"Nob" to "Boss"
"Meganob" to "Gargboss"
"Warboss" to "Waaaghboss"
"Warbikers" to "Waaaghbikaz"
"Wierdboy" to "Wyrdboy"
"Killa kan" to "Killabot".
"Trukk" to "Pikk-up"
Bigmek, Stormboyz, Kommandoz, Buggies, etc stayed the same.

So they didn't even translate them. They just picked other English names for them. Pretty interesting way of localizing

Seriously, it's just a terrible translation. I usually have both copies on me. Comming from magic (even more terrible German translation) I keep with the motto that only the original language counts.

i thought the wording of the deffrolla was the hits happen as soon as you declare the ram/TS. so even a dodging skimmer takes the hits. wich tbh dosent make sense.... but i thought this was hashed out a while ago and people argued it blue in the face the hits still happened untill the thread was locked?

If the hits were to happen when you declare the ram/tank shock, you could declare 1", not come close to hitting anything but still get the deffroller hits. The hits only happen on a successful ram or tank shock.

DarthSpader wrote:i thought the wording of the deffrolla was the hits happen as soon as you declare the ram/TS. so even a dodging skimmer takes the hits. wich tbh dosent make sense.... but i thought this was hashed out a while ago and people argued it blue in the face the hits still happened untill the thread was locked?

You are mistaken.

"Any Tank Shock made by battlewagon with a deff rolla causes d6 S10 hits on the victim unit."

The ram causes damage, dodge prevents all damage done by the ram.

Jidmah wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:i thought the wording of the deffrolla was the hits happen as soon as you declare the ram/TS. so even a dodging skimmer takes the hits. wich tbh dosent make sense.... but i thought this was hashed out a while ago and people argued it blue in the face the hits still happened untill the thread was locked?

You are mistaken.

"Any Tank Shock made by battlewagon with a deff rolla causes d6 S10 hits on the victim unit."

The ram causes damage, dodge prevents all damage done by the ram.

I've always played as per common sense. If the battlewagon attempts to ram the skimmer, and the ram attack is dodged, how has the deffrolla made contact? As per my interpretation, the deffrolla only makes contact if the ram attack is successful.

Game rules have very little in common with common sense