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People always seem to love to talk about how Battlefoam bags are the best in the business and their quality justifies their price. I've held the bags before in hand and I agree that they're not bad. However, I already have Sabol trays of my own, and they've been great to me over the years. The same can't be said of Sabol's bags.

Ultimately, as someone who has invested a lot of money into Sabol and Portable Warfare and even Battlefoam trays of the standard 13"x7.5" size, I'm not in the market for more trays. However, it shocks me that the self-heralded industry leader in trays and bags doesn't produce a bag that holds the most common size of foam. Why is this the case?

From a more personal perspective, I enjoy the 13"x7.5" size. It's a de facto standard, many companies make it, and it allows me to switch the trays between bags when needed. It's nice when everything is modular. Plus, I find that Portable Warfare's "Blue" foam is the best tray I've ever had.


As a small aside, does KR Multicase make bags or cases or boxes or whatever that hold 'standard' sized foam? I hear a lot of good things about their stuff too.

Not that I'm aware of. They make their own sized trays, and make their cases fit those.

I see absolutely no reason for Battlefoam to do this. If you have already had the Sabol trays, you can buy more foams from Battlefoam. If you don't like the Battlefoam size, just don't buy those bags and instead buy something else.

Nobody complains about Apple coming up with their own standard.

Besides, business-wise, it is a very bad idea to create a product that is very similar in size and shape to a competitor's product. It doesn't set your product apart AND it gives the other guys a case for a lawsuit.

The only reason I'm not converting over to Battlefoam is that their product is an odd size and incompatible with what I've already invested my time and money into. It makes good business sense depending on your perspective.

Battlefoam seems to have a huge variety of bags of arbitrary sizes and foam to fit them all. They even make standard-sized foam trays, it's simply good business sense to produce the one missing product: the bag.

And actually, everyone complains that Apple doesn't follow de facto standards.

Well, another thing is, Battlefoam trays are more expensive than other trays. if they made their cases and trays the same size as the 'standard', people would likely just buy their case and a competitors cheaper trays.

However, it's pretty moot. They make trays and cases to their own size. You'll either need to start over, or have both brands of case and foam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Absolutionis wrote:Battlefoam seems to have a huge variety of bags of arbitrary sizes and foam to fit them all. They even make standard-sized foam trays, it's simply good business sense to produce the one missing product: the bag.

The only different sizes they do is height, and there's a reason. It saves space and allows flexibility. Like, I can fit my Vampire Counts infantry in 1" trays, but my Tyranid infantry needs 1.5" trays. Instead of either needing to force my Tyranids into 1" trays, or put my Vampire Counts infantry in a tray too large for them, I can have my VC infantry in a tray that fits them perfectly, save .5" from each of those, and have my Tyranids in 1.5" trays, and comfortably fit them. This also lets them make trays for models other cases would'nt hold. The new Zombie Dragon is a whopping 8" tall, and they have a tray that fits it, and the Terrorgeist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something I'd like to add to the thread - in another Battlefoam thread, I was saying how I was waiting over 3 months for some trays from Battlefoam. I spoke to my FLGS manager the other week, and while I was told by other staff my trays were ordered, he told me they hadn't been.

Apologies to the Battlefoam guys for that. Huge mixup on my end with my FLGS, not with their service.

Not at all, actually. Their Infinity Bags seemed interesting to me until I realized they're a unique size with inexplicably unique trays. The Mantic Bag, the Spartan Games bag, and even the Malifaux bag are all different sizes from one another.

I understand the necessity of different thicknesses of trays.

EDIT: I understand why they do it from a business perspective. It forces people that have their bags to buy much more foam. It's just not at all attractive as an outsider looking in.

Heh, that's something I hadn't noticed, probably because I never really looked at their game specific bags.

Those are probably unique sizes, well, because they can.

It doesn't force people who have their bags to buy more foam, it forces them to buy their foam. However, it forces someone coming from another product to buy more foam.

Battlefoam does make foam trays that will fit your Sabol bag. I realize this isn't what the OP was after, but I thought it worth mentioning.

The infinity bags are smaller because, simply put, you just don't need to have that many minis to make a playable army.

Also, the main aim of the infinity bag is safe storage and transport of your minis to and from A-B.

Not that I'd ever get one. I put all of mine into padded compartments in a fishing tackle organiser.

-Loki- wrote:It doesn't force people who have their bags to buy more foam, it forces them to buy their foam. However, it forces someone coming from another product to buy more foam.

Fair enough. I guess I'm not the target market after all.

I want their bags and not their foam. Considering the foam trays are the important factor here, it's hardly a loss from the customer's perspective when there are other alternatives out there.

chromedog wrote:The infinity bags are smaller because, simply put, you just don't need to have that many minis to make a playable army.

I don't mind them being smaller. I actually prefer (and use) a rather small bag to carry my Infinity models.

It's the fact that the bag is inexplicably sized for foam that is incompatible with anything else out there including their own main line of foam trays

Absolutionis wrote:It's the fact that the bag is inexplicably sized for foam that is incompatible with anything else out there including their own main line of foam trays

That could actually be a contractual obligation. Remember, they're selling these as official infinity/Warmachine/Hordes/Malifaux bags. The companies who own the games could be specifying the size, rather than Battlefoam.

why on earth would those companies care? I mean, I can see why battlefoam does it from Absolutionis's post but I can't see why would mantic/infinity/privateer would care. There has to be a monetary reason behind it.

With regards to the TS, about KR, you can always just email the guy on their webpage or their facebook page. IIRC, I think they're the same size.

Sining wrote:With regards to the TS, about KR, you can always just email the guy on their webpage or their facebook page. IIRC, I think they're the same size.

Good idea; will do. I keep forgetting that most smaller companies are rather comfortable with answering questions via Facebook.

Sining wrote:why on earth would those companies care? I mean, I can see why battlefoam does it from Absolutionis's post but I can't see why would mantic/infinity/privateer would care. There has to be a monetary reason behind it..

To control branding?

Could be possible that they do not want you to carry around your Warmachine army in an Infinity bag. Keep the models and the game consistent and branded the same to avoid having you advertise a competitors game system?

So you think the companies go "Hmm, we want a bag that is a diff. size from all the other bags you have currently. What sizes are left?" I'd hate to be one of the last companies to work with battlefoam then. They'd either have to make a really big bag, or a really small one. Or may be a hexagonal one -_- Cause that would really stand out.

I find that them doing it simply to sell more foam makes more sense than 'PP/Mantic/CorvusBelli are making them do it', although i suppose you could email the companies to ask them.

Sining wrote:So you think the companies go "Hmm, we want a bag that is a diff. size from all the other bags you have currently. What sizes are left?" I'd hate to be one of the last companies to work with battlefoam then. They'd either have to make a really big bag, or a really small one. Or may be a hexagonal one -_- Cause that would really stand out.

I find that them doing it simply to sell more foam makes more sense than 'PP/Mantic/CorvusBelli are making them do it', although i suppose you could email the companies to ask them.

Or you could try to stay away from hyperbole and realize that in order to get a different back you can simply be talking about an inch or two difference in one dimmension.

If you want one bag for all your armies, then get the one without branding, which is the standard battlefoam size.

Do you think that PP/Mantic/CorvusBelli are giving their IP away to Battlefoam to make a profit of? Is it really that hard to imagine a scenario of "You want to use PP branding on your bag, so that people who play PP games will buy your bag instead of another bag? We have a deal, but make sure that only PP trays fit in PP bags."

Brand idendity is a pretty bag deal, and companies spend alot of money on establishing and maintaining it. They don't want their brand to become diluted by people carrying a PP/Mantic/CorvusBelli bag. They would rather a customer carry a generic transport bag instead of having all their branding mixed together.

An inch or 2 difference in bag size pretty much means that it's not going to be able to carry foam meant for other bag sizes unless you're going to squeeze that extra 1" foam of you tray into the bag or your tray is now loose by 1".

And just for comparison, these are the bag sizes I found on battlefoams website
16W x 12L x 6H"
11W x 7.5L x 13H
13W x 6.5L x 2H
12.5W x 10.5L x 4H
12W x 8.5L x 11H
17W x 11L x 14H

So you think PP/Corvus Belli/Mantic etc, all miniature companies, at the ones indicating to Battlefoam; the bag company, what size to make their bags instead of the other way around? Especially when making sure PP trays fit only into PP bags will benefit battlefoam a lot more than it will benefit PP. Right...

Sining wrote:An inch or 2 difference in bag size pretty much means that it's not going to be able to carry foam meant for other bag sizes unless you're going to squeeze that extra 1" foam of you tray into the bag or your tray is now loose by 1".

Which is exactly my point. Keeps PP minatures from being carried around in a bag that advertises Corvus Belli, etc..

Sining wrote:So you think PP/Corvus Belli/Mantic etc, all miniature companies, at the ones indicating to Battlefoam; the bag company, what size to make their bags instead of the other way around? Especially when making sure PP trays fit only into PP bags will benefit battlefoam a lot more than it will benefit PP. Right...

You have your interpretation, I have mine, and we could possibly both be wrong.

Battlefoam does offer Sobal sized trays as a standard offering. If you look under products the next to the last listing say SD size.

I think the problem was that he had Sobal size trays that are holding up fine, but his bag is getting worn out. Battlefoam makes trays to fit Sobal bags, but no bags to fit Sobal trays.

I think...

My Warriors of Chaos, Malifaux, and 2 Warmachine/Hordes armies all fit into the 154 USD Black Warmachine bag. I bought it from my flgs, and it came with a couple of different sized trays, so I'm not quite sure about the tray sizes being different to keep me from advertising a different company's game.

Instead, I'm sure it's more along the lines of what Chromedog said. You have a different size because you need less minis. If you have a warmachine army that can fit into those trays, I don't think Romeo is going to come to your house and force you to pull all of those minis out to prevent him from losing a contract (though that would be funny).

Granted I don't have custom foam for my army, I just have the "Standard loadout" which is a range of like 3 trays of 1.5 inch foam, 1 tray of 2 inch foam (though as a trollbloods player, a second tray of this would have been nice) and then like 2 trays of the 2.5 inch foam...

I'd heavily invested in GW cases, K&M and Figures in Comfort cases for my several armies. For my latest army I decided to go with a BattleFoam bag as it allowed the entire army to fit into one bag rather than several cases.

Best decision I've ever done. I've since bought Battlefoam bags for my other 4 armies, selling the old cases on Ebay (which paid for half the cost of the new bags) which should go some way to showing how much I like BF's products.

I can't see any reasons to produce bags for GW size trays when their own trays are soo good.

Absolutionis wrote:People always seem to love to talk about how Battlefoam bags are the best in the business and their quality justifies their price. I've held the bags before in hand and I agree that they're not bad. However, I already have Sabol trays of my own, and they've been great to me over the years. The same can't be said of Sabol's bags.

Ultimately, as someone who has invested a lot of money into Sabol and Portable Warfare and even Battlefoam trays of the standard 13"x7.5" size, I'm not in the market for more trays. However, it shocks me that the self-heralded industry leader in trays and bags doesn't produce a bag that holds the most common size of foam. Why is this the case?

From a more personal perspective, I enjoy the 13"x7.5" size. It's a de facto standard, many companies make it, and it allows me to switch the trays between bags when needed. It's nice when everything is modular. Plus, I find that Portable Warfare's "Blue" foam is the best tray I've ever had.


As a small aside, does KR Multicase make bags or cases or boxes or whatever that hold 'standard' sized foam? I hear a lot of good things about their stuff too.

Absolutionis,

We make trays of all sizes. If you want "Sabol" size foam we have the SD line. If you want "Games Workshop" size we have the GW line, that fits in our Shield bag. We have options to fit all your gaming needs. To be very honest we do not get many requests to make a bag at 13" x 7.5". Generally gamers switch for the quality and the fact that you can hold twice as many troops. Some gamers hold on to their bags due to their investment and they buy SD or GW foam to fill their bag.

Kyle

I can't see BF ever making bags to fit "non-BF specific" trays. Their bags are high quality. There's no denying that. They don't make the lion's share of their money on the bags, I'd wager, though.
My money says that they make far more profit on selling trays than bags. In my experience, gamers tend to buy a bag or 3, then invest in a ton of trays to swap out as needed. They don't invest in a few trays, then a ton of bags, depending on how few trays they want to bring (in general).

Eric

Absolutionis wrote:People always seem to love to talk about how Battlefoam bags are the best in the business and their quality justifies their price. I've held the bags before in hand and I agree that they're not bad. However, I already have Sabol trays of my own, and they've been great to me over the years. The same can't be said of Sabol's bags.

Ultimately, as someone who has invested a lot of money into Sabol and Portable Warfare and even Battlefoam trays of the standard 13"x7.5" size, I'm not in the market for more trays. However, it shocks me that the self-heralded industry leader in trays and bags doesn't produce a bag that holds the most common size of foam. Why is this the case?

From a more personal perspective, I enjoy the 13"x7.5" size. It's a de facto standard, many companies make it, and it allows me to switch the trays between bags when needed. It's nice when everything is modular. Plus, I find that Portable Warfare's "Blue" foam is the best tray I've ever had.


As a small aside, does KR Multicase make bags or cases or boxes or whatever that hold 'standard' sized foam? I hear a lot of good things about their stuff too.

Shocks you?) Really? Saying "I wish they did this, it would be convenient for me" is one thing, but to say that because they don't make bags to hold other peoples trays 'shocks you' is a tad dramatic.

There are costs to making a run of bags, especially a sideline like making bags to fit sabol trays, which isn't going to be really flying out of their warehouse. You don't want to incur the costs of switching to battlefoam, and that's fair. But you should be able to see the point of a manufacturer not making every single thing that customers ask for, and incurring their own costs.

While i'm not a huge fan of the owner... I would see it as his right to decide what his company actually offers. What strategic or economical value does it offer a business own to specifically change his product line or offer and alternate line to "fit" a competitors case?

You basically saying "I want my Toyota's Corrolla's tires to fit on my Pickup Truck." If you want to use Sabol trays, they will fit in their back. If you want to use Battlefoam trays, you use their back. If you are lucky enough to find a provider who uses / fits both, good for you. But what your asking is a custom order... you could always call them and put in such an order if that's what you want. Nothing is stopping you as a consumer from doing that. I'm sure if you want a custom case, they'd make one for you for a fee.

Actually, they probably wouldn't. BF doesn't make the cases themselves, and they buy in bulk from whomever they have make them.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Actually, they probably wouldn't. BF doesn't make the cases themselves, and they buy in bulk from whomever they have make them.

Eric

No they will, I discussed with Romeo 2 gencons ago about doing a Brushfire bag, but we have no where near the budget for the price he quoted to get that done.

I gave all of my old Sabol bags (and foam) to my roommate when I got my BF 1520, so I'm kind of indifferent. Maybe you could find someone to buy the old foam? I'm sure second-hand foam wouldn't go for much, but if you plucked it optimally for whatever your army is, there could be an interested buyer out there.

Cyporiean wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Actually, they probably wouldn't. BF doesn't make the cases themselves, and they buy in bulk from whomever they have make them.

Eric

No they will, I discussed with Romeo 2 gencons ago about doing a Brushfire bag, but we have no where near the budget for the price he quoted to get that done.

You talked with him about doing a single bag, or a bunch that you (or he) could sell?
There's a difference. I'm talking about getting him to create one, single bag.

Eric