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I didn't think this belonged in any other section, so apologies if I misplaced.

This isn't a complaining thread, before anyone gets me wrong. More or less an actual discussion thread. Being a 40k newbie, I actually found it surprising how fast I found myself against a player who tried to make it so the entire game tipped to his favor. First, he demanded we used te Short table edges, which lead to me asking other Dakka members if there is a legal ruling or not on the table edges. I showed him the replies, found the exact page in te rule book, yada yada. And the player still said, an I quote; "Well, I still say player preference. So you just lost the vote." If that wasn't enough, said player has decided to switch which rulebook we use. I have recently purchased the current edition rules (For cheap as I know 6th is on the way) and he refuses to use them, making us use the 4th edition rules. As he is using Tau, the board edge, and the edition are more in his favor me feels. Especially the fact im being forced back 2 extra feet from his units.

Recently, after my last debate with him, I began to wonder how the more veteran players handle someone like this. I know most would simply say not to game with him, but it's not as easy a choice when there are not that many 40k players in the city. Especially not one I can get ahold of easily.

So the point of the thread: How do you deal with a player who tries to turn the game in his favor unfairly? Such as pulling some kind of age/Gaming shop rank on you, or trying to get people to agree with their side to overrule things/force a house rule? Basically tossing the main rules aside.

I began to wonder how the more veteran players handle someone like this. I know most would simply say not to game with him,

Well, yea. I know the pain, but frankly not gaming at all, or gaming against myself was a lot less frustrating than biting the bullet and trying to get one or more donkey-caves to acknowledge things like "Rules" "Logic" or "Any opinion but their own"

If this guy wants to stack the deck in his favor though, and you really don't want to take the above option, well, OK. He wants to play short edges? Fine, you set up the terrain stack the board with LOS blocking terrain in such a way that his gunline is utterly nulled. Or demand deployment zones that you wind up that same 24 inches away you would normally anyway. He wants to use 4e? Fine, go dig up a codex for 4E space marines, get some drop pods and librarians, and drop Fear of the Darkness bombs on his tau and watch his armies run right off the board.

Player preference says the game should be fair, and if he doesn't like it he can lose a couple votes. If he doesn't want to play with YOU at that point, well...wasn't worth the time and effort to begin with, in my opinion.

Is he your friend, if not, just threaten to nock his lights out if he keeps acting like a gakker.

If you don't like violence and he is your mate, just tell him, stop acting like an idiot and play the game properly, and tell him player preference is just bull crap. Also add "I know your army is crap and you need an rule set to make them any good but get over it and play the proper rules" This might upset him, so just tell him to drink some cement and harden up.

ut naturally when it comes to people you don't know, just pack up your models and tell him "This game is meant to fun, and its not fun anymore so I do not wish to play with you any more until you change your attitude.

One, laugh at him, and.berate him for being so insecure he has to cheat at toy soldiers to feel better about hisself. But do it tastefully.

Two, after that, find someone else. I m positive their is more then one other gamer where you are. If you ignore him, and other people ignore him, he either has to quit or change his ways.

I find this guy to be a scumbag frankly. Since your new he should play by the book, 5th ed. Not some crap house rule. Honestly dont play him is the best advise.

Ah, I know who you are talking about Sei. (I live in the same area).

I had problems with him myself, did the same crap. I ended up just asking people for a good list that would give me the advantage. But because most of the time he was my only opponent, I got tired of the unfairness and stopped playing for a little while.

And unfortunately, there's maybe 10 players total at the local shops, and that's usually only for local tournaments. Maybe 2-3 for random pick up games >_>

Check out the article in UK white dwarf magazine by Jervis Johnson last year. He talks there about people who behave like this.
My answer is to remind the player that this is a hobby and a game which both players should enjoy. If all players don't walk away at the end of a game with a smile on their face and a story to tell then something is wrong. Refusal to negotiate or discuss shows a lack of maturity usually found with players who have no confidence in their own abilities or who were spoilt as children and have not learned how to lose. Frequently the same kids who cannot share either !!.
It also shows a lack of respect for other players.
Your opponent is fortunate that they are not in the club I run as this is not tolerated. Poor gamesmanship leads to D6 S10 apocalypse template orbital bombardment with no armour or cover saves !
It may be helpful to remind them that were they to play like that in a tournament they would find themselves disqualified.
Your last ditch option is to pack up your stuff and walk away.
This is not the best choice but I find that players such as your opponent do the hobby no favours at all and frequently new players give up the hobby shortly after this kind of negative experience.
Sadly, I find players like this rarely change so if you cannot move forward I suggest you find someone else to play.
This is a great hobby. Please don't be put of by this player.

People like this are called TFG, they are dealt with by simply not playing with them. They feed on the tears and frustration of their opponents, deny them opponents and they move on; unfortunately this means a new place has to deal with them.

However if they move on from enough places they will eventually give up or sort themselves out (may need a sort of intervention, it may be unintentional and they simply don't realise).

If they don't they usually seem to move to xbox/ps3/pc online games, likely a FPS.

I fully take on board what you said about not having a large player base but from the brief post, I simply dont think you can learn anything from this guy either good or bad in the game. Hence there is little point in continuing to endure his nonsense.
Using the 4th ed rulebook is quite pointless. Whilst 6th is coming out, the current rules and armies are built for the most part around the 5th ed ruleset.
Again using short table edges is quite simply agains the rules and his comment about player choice is simply childish. You also have a choice and per the rulebook you choose long table edges.

tl;dr You wont learn any tactics, ideas or skill from playing this guy and in the long run he will stunt your experience of 40k. Dump him and try to find other players, hard as that may be. For simple tactical tryouts play a solo game.

SOck em in the mouth.

PS ignore those advocating actual violence against him. Bulldog antics rarely lead to anything useful espeically in relation to wargaming.

I agree. While likely fun, orky and quick it'd probably lead to at least you being banned from the store/club.

Just don't play him. He's never going to be fun to play against. Even if you get him to play by the rules, he's going to bitch about distances, demand re-rolls when it suits him, use incorrect lists, incorrectly remember his stats to his advantage, etc.

Just don't play him. And if he asks why, just say you want to play the current rules againts someone who plays for fun. Don't back down.

Ok, I'd be lieing if I didn't admit allot of the replies made me laugh xD

While I didn't mean for this to just be aimed at my guy in general, I did get allot of useful advice, and I thank everyone do far I've decided next time I see him (Tommorow most likely, As I work across the street from the shop I game at.) I'm just going to be blunt. He's being uncouth, I'll play him if he will be fair. If not, fine, I'll just finish painting my army and wait for someone who is there for fun to play a game with. I didn't spend 300$ on 2000 points of CSM To have some one ruin the hobby for me.

Also, no worries on me quitting the hobby. I'll drive all the way to Loiusville if I have to for a good game xD

Good decision Sei.

A member of my old group was like that. We all started playing at the same time and over the years he developed a habit of disputing every rule that hindered him, mis-reading rules in his favour and even the classic 'cocked dice' re-rolls.

It eventually caused the break up of our group and we all left the game for years.

Stick with the game and you'll find a worthwhile opponent soon enough.

I know exactly how this feels dude, my sympathies to you.

About 2 years ago, I came back to the hobby after a long sabbatical. The "friend" who got me back into it had really fired me up and got me excited about wargaming again - but as it turned out, he just wanted a new opponent to cheat against.

I'd bought a rather crappy & non-competitive necrons army from eBay (not that any 'crons army could be called competitive at the time). He calls 2000 points for our first game (which I barely had enough to make a list for) and when I show up on the day, he's like "I've only got apocalypse lists made for 2000 points. It'll take me too long to make a normal one from scratch."

I knew then that I'd probably be at a disadvantage, but he was a mate (allegedly) & I was so keen to play that I'm like "whatever."

He played Chaos Marines. All of his lists included a hellhammer. As in the IG super heavy tank. Needless to say, I recieved a sound thrashing as my transportless warriors and scarab swarms were pie-plated into oblivion.

And all the way through the game, his demeanour changed completely from friendly to demeaning and belittling. I was amazed at how childish and petty this 30-year-old man was being.

Looking back on it now, I don't know how I maintained any interest in the hobby after a reintroduction like that. I played a couple more games with him and it was the same excuse and behaviour repeated each time.

I ignored him after the third time and haven't played against him since. Unfortunately there are some straight-up losers who wargame to boost their tiny egos.

Tolerating them will only validate their pathetic self-esteem leeching. They're better off shunned in the hope they might either change their ways or do us all a favour and quit.

Dreadsock. To the face and the groin.

Coolyo294 wrote:Dreadsock. To the face and the groin.

With the Chaos one.

It's more spikey.

Hey, Sei.

As you expected, the reaction from most people here to "Well, I still say player preference. So you just lost the vote." is to not play the guy.

Mine included. I'd rather not play at all than put up with this.

Good for you on sticking to your guns and driving to Louisville for your gaming. I hope you find better gamers there!

Sei wrote:making us use the 4th edition rules.

How is he 'making' you do anything you don't want to?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sei wrote:making us use the 4th edition rules.

How is he 'making' you do anything you don't want to?

Possibly under threat of dreadsock?

Want to play me and try out your models/tactics?
Yes.
4th ed rules only so.

Better than nothing in the most horrible sense of the situation I guess.

"Well, I still say player preference. So you just lost the vote."

While I feel it should be legally permissible to strike someone across the face as if they were a back-talking member of your late night working girl crew were they to say something like this, I feel your only recourse is to tell him to politely go insert objects of random dimensions into one of his exit-only orifices, and go play someone else.

Sei wrote: ..., making us use the 4th edition rules. As he is using Tau, the board edge, and the edition are more in his favor me feels. Especially the fact im being forced back 2 extra feet from his units.

Exactly so, as tau rocked in 4e, and by cheating with the short edge deployment, he's *royally* gaining an advantage in range.

Many others have said so, and I will reinforce it too: Don't play him. Even if it's just you two standing in the store and there's no one else there, *don't* play him. Resist the temptation.

Here's a quote, and I've thought it out carefully for you: "Bob, (his name?) you're cheating on the deployment, yes, in 4th edition, which gives your ranged army an unfair advantage. Short Edge deployment doesn't exist in 4th edition. I'm not playing you until you agree to play by the rules."

Not until the 5e RB is on the table and he's playing according to it, an his 4e RB, of which he's not obeying those rules either, is completely absent from the store. No Short Edge baloney.

*If* you cannot resist and will play him by his rules anyway, then make two full units of Chosen CSM. They can have Infiltrate, which will allow you to deploy them with 18" sighted or as close as 12" to him if none of his units can see them at Deployment. It is a 4e rule, on pages 74 and 84, of the 4e RB. He'll have a hard time wrecking them completely, as you will only need 3 CSM to beat any of his suit units in h2h. I don't favor this advice, but there ya go.

What's your list and what's his?

Sarcastically:

You can make a list and count up the number of derogatory terms this thread has generated. And then show it to him. So here's some other terms to add to it:
'Douche-bag' or just 'douche' either varient
'Cheater'
a fresh one - 'namby-pamby'
For the UK players, 'git'
Say UK guys, would "chav" apply?
Also, see George Carlin's list of the "7 words you can't say on radio or television"



Sincerely, I wish you Good Luck in the form of finding another player who is a pleasure to have a game with.

Brothererekose wrote:Here's a quote, and I've thought it out carefully for you: "Bob, (his name?) you're cheating on the deployment, yes, in 4th edition, which gives your ranged army an unfair advantage. Short Edge deployment doesn't exist in 4th edition. I'm not playing you until you agree to play by the rules."

Not until the 5e RB is on the table and he's playing according to it, an his 4e RB, of which he's not obeying those rules either, is completely absent from the store. No Short Edge baloney.

This would be the diplomatic way to handle it, try this first.

Brothererekose wrote:*If* you cannot resist and will play him by his rules anyway, then make two full units of Chosen CSM. They can have Infiltrate, which will allow you to deploy them with 18" sighted or as close as 12" to him if none of his units can see them at Deployment. It is a 4e rule, on pages 74 and 84, of the 4e RB. He'll have a hard time wrecking them completely, as you will only need 3 CSM to beat any of his suit units in h2h. I don't favor this advice, but there ya go.

If the first one does not work, build an all Deep strike/ Infiltrate list and make range a non-factor.

3 units of chosen in rhinos outflanking and 3 units of deep striking Obliterators should do the trick.

I wouldn't play with this guy at all. He just explicitly sets the game up to be in his favor and not yours because he can't stand the idea of losing. He's being a manipulative jackass and you shouldn't waste your time playing him.

Of course, the correct answer of "dont' pay with him" has been well-presented.

The slightly lesser proper answer is to just start making up rules of your own. If you're not tied to the rulebook, then it's a matter of who can get more creative than the other. Once you start abusing made up rules harder than he does, eventually he'll get the point and start wanting to actually use the rulebook.

Don't limit yourself to sane things, really, go all out. Pretend like the frag grenades on your models are the same as frag rounds in imperial guard grenade launchers. Declare all terrain dangerous terrain, and make it so that your opponent loses D6 models per turn that unit stays in terrain. Give all your weapons - ALL your weapons the "melta" special rule, and all your units relentless.

If he complains, tell him to show you in the rulebook where you're wrong. Odds are, it will be the first time he's actually read it...

Another vote for the "Don't play him" crowd.

Also, I approve of this 'dreadsock'.

Furthermore, do as Ailaros posted above.

Sei wrote:"Well, I still say player preference. So you just lost the vote."

There's two of you, how do you lose the vote?

"I don't want to play 4th edition rules, no one else uses them. Either we use 5th edition or you can find someone else to play."

Sei wrote:
So the point of the thread: How do you deal with a player who tries to turn the game in his favor unfairly?

Stop playing him? Tell him that he's using non-standard rules and an outdated edition and that's not what you are looking to play.

Black list them pure and simple, after the word goes out they won't have anyone to play with. These are the same guys that hide in the rule book when you want to try a new unit or a scenario found outside of the holy tomes of GW.

I actually watched a guy grab a blister pack, "borrow" my super glue and put an unpainted model on the table in order to beat my, as he put it, "weak Imperial Guard". If I was that weak, why the new figure? Oh yeah he was given the choice remove the unpainted model or forfeit, he threw a fit and I just played against another player.

I retired from gaming a few years back, it stopped being fun for me and my friends, too many new players that had to do everything to win and no one willing to just game for the fun of it.