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 vict0988 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

42 Models Sautekh Flyer-Wing + Sautekh Battalion 8 CP 1999

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) Relic (Veil of Darkness) 85

1 Destroyer Lord (warscythe + resurrection orb + phylactery) Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) Relic (Nanoscarab Casket) 171

8 Immortals (tesla carbines) 136

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

1 Heavy Destroyer (heavy gauss cannon) 57

That is a weird list. Three night scythes ? What a waste of points. No overlord to buff the tesla immortals ? No destroyer unit on the tombworld ? Get a DDA instead of 3 Hdestroyers, you get more firepower, more range, more durability.

One Night Scythe isn't useful for bringing in more than one unit, I wanted to be able to put my troops on the TW so I could grab objectives with them, hence 3 Night Scythes. An Overlord to buff 5 Immortals? What a waste of points. I had a 60% chance of going first, if I put a unit on the Tomb World it would be useless turn 1 guarenteed, I thought I'd be able to get in range with all 18 of them, but yeah, that turned out to be a mistake. Whether I had 12 or 18 on the board my opponent was going to pop a squad each turn (although he was unlucky and left one alive turn 2).

3 HDDs within 6" of a Lord have more anti-vehicle fire-power than a DDA does, they can also deploy on the TW, which is kind of the point of bringing 3 Night Scythes, to reliably get units out of the Tomb World, if I didn't make a list using that ability then 3 Night Scythes would indeed be a waste of points. I suppose I should say I'm trying to find the best Necron list with 3 or more Flyers.

It's always good to try things out.

Key is to bring in multiple units in forward positions for target saturation. Personally I find that throwing 6 wraiths up there with them helps a great deal with reducing fire on other units.

 vict0988 wrote:

One Night Scythe isn't useful for bringing in more than one unit, I wanted to be able to put my troops on the TW so I could grab objectives with them, hence 3 Night Scythes. An Overlord to buff 5 Immortals? What a waste of points. I had a 60% chance of going first, if I put a unit on the Tomb World it would be useless turn 1 guarenteed, I thought I'd be able to get in range with all 18 of them, but yeah, that turned out to be a mistake. Whether I had 12 or 18 on the board my opponent was going to pop a squad each turn (although he was unlucky and left one alive turn 2).

You can teleport in more than one unit with a stratagem. An overlord can buff up to 20 immortals, with a stratagem, your fault for only taking 2*5 and 1*8.

 vict0988 wrote:

3 HDDs within 6" of a Lord have more anti-vehicle fire-power than a DDA does, they can also deploy on the TW, which is kind of the point of bringing 3 Night Scythes, to reliably get units out of the Tomb World, if I didn't make a list using that ability then 3 Night Scythes would indeed be a waste of points. I suppose I should say I'm trying to find the best Necron list with 3 or more Flyers.

I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau, fielding a Mephrit silver tide and tomb blade outrider, and won a quite crushing victory. S4 AP -2 shooting was the main workhorse of my army, though depended on deceiver and Veil to get in range and wraiths for distraction.

List:


I got first turn and redeployed Deceiver, wraiths, 20 warriors, and veiled up another 20 warriors , moved up CCB and ghost ark carrying the last 10 warriors.

DLord and 12 tomb blades moved up the left flank but ended up in the traffic jam in the middle. Great that they flew so could jump around where there was space, getting their particle beamers in range for their S6 -1 shooting.

S4 AP -2 was pivotal in driving fire warriors out of cover. Riptide was 2+/3++ so -2 made no difference, only for blades which were now that critical -1 AP.

Wraiths advanced (could not charge first turn) to end up 1" from the gun line. Problem is though that most of his big suits and vehicles are fly, so it'd be a waste charging them without comiting the rest of the army to take them out, which I would not because out of yeh Mephrit half range. So wraiths took out Pathfinders and kept transport busy from charging my warriors (very important)

He spent first turn shooting 5 out of 6 wraiths, I reanimated 2, and shot 14 warriors, I got back ~10 with help of GArk.

I lost the deceiver to his Commander and the GArk to his Longstride or some such, big cannon tank character with Fly. It was the only viable target for his anti tank.

He soon was out gunned in the center.

He had stealth suits and ghost keel on my right, and soon his commander, which almost tipped the balance in his favour, but tomb blades could get there, GArk unloaded 10 warriors and soon hat situation was under control.

At turn 5 he had Ghost keel with 1 wound, Longstride with 1 wound, broadsides locked in CC, some drones here and there, I held all key markers for the Eternal War mission, and although the game would go on, we called it.

Picture after my turn 1 movement. His ghost keel and stealth suits are not seen to my right.

The list would struggle more against cc oriented lists. Might swap in Anrakyr to help with that.

torblind wrote:

S4 AP -2 was pivotal in driving fire warriors out of cover. Riptide was 2+/3++ so -2 made no difference, only for blades which were now that critical -1 AP.

Riptide can get 3++ by using nova reactor on his movement, and suffering MW.
Its 5++ on your first turn, have a talk.

Ah. Turn 1 I shot the fire warriors in front of him


I had planned to not worry too much about the Riptide but turn 2 warriors didn't have any better targets so shot at him anyway and brought him down 7-8 wounds or so. Which was awesome and I easily killed him off turn 3

torblind wrote:
I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau

Awesome, nice battlereport!

Got a couple of questions:

-No anti-tank?! Very brave! What was your plan behind this, ignore the enemy armour or rely on massive Gauss fire to deal with enemy tanks?

-No scarabs/units to hold back-field objectives. You felt like you missed that a lot?

-Interesting choice on the Tomb Blades /w Particle Beamers. Did you not feel like you were missing out on a lot of fire-power, considering how powerful Mephrit Tesla is?

-How useful was the Ghost Ark in general? Did he really help a lot with the RP?
I would personally have skipped the GA and put in more Warriors/Tesla Tomb Blades. Then Deceive those up and let the Wraiths just 'footslog' forward. If you get a decent roll on the advance, you might even be able to pull of a turn 1 charge with them.

-How useful was the Chronemetron on the Cryptek? I know it's only 15 points, but would a naked Cryptek have done the same job?
Or you can turn him into a Cloaktek and turn the CCB into an Overlord /w the Veil of Darkness. Saves a lot of points while keeping the mobility for both HQ's.

Doctoralex wrote:

torblind wrote:
I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau

Awesome, nice battlereport!

Got a couple of questions:

-No anti-tank?! Very brave! What was your plan behind this, ignore the enemy armour or rely on massive Gauss fire to deal with enemy tanks?

-No scarabs/units to hold back-field objectives. You felt like you missed that a lot?

-Interesting choice on the Tomb Blades /w Particle Beamers. Did you not feel like you were missing out on a lot of fire-power, considering how powerful Mephrit Tesla is?

-How useful was the Ghost Ark in general? Did he really help a lot with the RP?
I would personally have skipped the GA and put in more Warriors/Tesla Tomb Blades. Then Deceive those up and let the Wraiths just 'footslog' forward. If you get a decent roll on the advance, you might even be able to pull of a turn 1 charge with them.

-How useful was the Chronemetron on the Cryptek? I know it's only 15 points, but would a naked Cryptek have done the same job?
Or you can turn him into a Cloaktek and turn the CCB into an Overlord /w the Veil of Darkness. Saves a lot of points while keeping the mobility for both HQ's.

Thanks.

- About tanks: Anti-tank is definitely a weakness. My plan was to have wraiths harass tanks if need be, later helped by destroyer lord, and equally importantly have as much of my army in up close as soon as possible for target saturation and so that even if he picked one unit off, the rest of it would soon be brought to bare in half range. With only tanks left, it would still have been an up-hill battle for him. Things definitely need to be revised before going up against a 4-5 LRBT AM army.

- Ok with no Scarabs? Sort of.. we played Eternal War mission nr 1 from CA book, a mission where we only scored at end of game (agreed on Eternal war beforehand). But during-turn objective scoring could still have been a thing. My plan was to either cover enough ground with warriors to let one stray of to hold an objective, or let tomb blades run off to hold one. His deep striking Commander did get to harass my characters though, perhaps unnecessarily being allowed to gun down the Deceiver (after I sent the Deceiver off to help against stealth suits in cc with my warriors). But board control was managable against a gunline such as this.

- Did I miss Tesla tomb blades? Not really. Against T3 targets, the S6 makes up for some of it. There would also be -1 to hit to go around, which cancels out the tesla advantage almost all together. This was also meant to be a harassing skirmish force, cheap was key, the more models the merrier. If they drew fire from my warriors, then fine. Also except for stealth suits and Riptide and Longstrike, his army was T3, T5 and T6, all of which favor S6 to S5. So all in all, for what I got for the points, I think it was ok to go with beamers. I could have used more shield vanes though. Your suggested HQ swap could have fixed that. The CCB Gauss cannon did next to nothing, as it moved almost every turn, and was set to deal with the -1 to hit flank (stealth/ghost)

- Ghost Ark useful? It was shot dead bottom of turn 2, exploded, causing havoc in my ranks. It did get me back some 5-6 warriors the one time I got to do the extra RP roll. Tau Longstrike was unable to do much to it with its D6 damage, it was a S7 D2 weapon from the Riptide (perfectly suited to bring down ghost ark), that did it in. Taking that fire meant the Riptide didn't instead wipe a unit of tomb blades or 7 warriors, letting them march further to actually shoot dead the Riptide. He did clear a total of 10-12 enemy models with the gauss arrays too. For this list, the Ghost Ark could be potensially very vaulable. Enough so that it would be a focused target. The way I see it, if a unit of yours is considered valuable enough by your opponent that he kills it early, its most likely a very good choice for you to bring. He may be right or wrong, but you still force his choice. Also there wasnt really physical room for more warriors as I closed in on him. Not in RF range at least. Having a 10 warriors payload inside it also is a nice flexible asset to have available. Helped me adapt to his Ghostkeel/Stealth suit flank, getting 20 extra S4 AP-2 shots where they needed to be when I needed them.

- I don't think the warriors were hit with an AP-2 weapon once this battle. so the chronometron was likely never in effect. I brought it for that one occasion where he would near-wipe a untit of warriors and then brought his heavy AP weapon to bear just to finish it off. Keeping those warrior blobs alive to win by attrition the focus of my list. However the swap you suggest would be very interesting. The CCB didnt bring much to the table. He was never >6" from the unit he chose to MWBD, and the gauss cannon underperformed wildly, inflicting 4 damage total during 5 turns. The mephrit special staff would probably have been better. Still the movement of the CCB is nice to adapt to changing battle fields. Shouldnt underestimate speed. Still the extra points saved would be nice for extra wargear for the blades, and he could help a little bit keeping the GA alive.

 p5freak wrote:
Any necron flyer is a waste of points.

Probably, but you won't be the person to find any hidden gems in the codex with that attitude, I'm planning on playing at least 3 games with each unit before throwing it away entirely, but I understand if you can't afford to do this because you don't have the models and you aren't willing to proxy or if you're playing against tournament lists that will wipe the floor with you if you bring any non-optimal units. My opponent specifically requested a non-tournament list, it's not like it takes a genius to look up the Necron lists that do well in tournaments and see that none of them have flyers.

torblind wrote:

Spoiler:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [45 PL, 758pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 131pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 330pts]: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 150pts]
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 147pts]
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Why not make the Outrider Nephrekh? Split one of the TB units into 2x3 and put the remaining 6-man squad in the Mephrit Battalion, if not replace the second squad with Scarabs. 2 CP for 4+ RP vs 1 CP for 6" extra movement on the Wraiths I think the 6" move is better when you only have 8 CP. You also get to move 20" with your TBs and you don't have to waste your 24" range on getting within 12". Try taking Anrakyr, MWBD the unit you're going to Veil turn 1, stick him in the Ghost Ark, move it up. Miss one turn of MWBD, but you get +1 A on all your Warriors turn 2+.

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Here is a question not sure if it’s been covered yet there is a Knight weapon that does 10 damage is this an auto ignore for quantum shielding if it is that’s funny!!!

Curious79 wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Here is a question not sure if it’s been covered yet there is a Knight weapon that does 10 damage is this an auto ignore for quantum shielding if it is that’s funny!!!

Yes, you are correct. Which is why vehicle spam is hilarious in Apoc-level games.

Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

Yeah it has nothing to do with remaining wounds

torblind wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

Yeah it has nothing to do with remaining wounds

Thanks a lot it’s just alot of bat reps I have seen have taken as their wounds characteristic at that time and I was think fantastic!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Raven Guard up next please help thinking try and get the best Melee units it’s quick to hold up do some damage while the rest move up thinking Orikan with WSLG trying to think how to get around the -1 to hit for the DDA outwith M.D. i think they will really suffer what about HD? if there isn’t my anti tank will be the LG loads of MWBD Tesla any other thoughts would be much appreciated I will get a list up and let you guys pick it apart constructively or not

I played tournament last weekend. Between 4 games i had "luck" to play 3 of them against new knights codex. I can say you, its a real problem for us. Btw, 4th game was against imperial guard and i won it 20-0.

My list:


Opponent lists:
1. Bobby G, 3 Knights, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - lost 0-20 to that one
2. Biggest Knight, 2 knights smaller, 2 armigers, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - won 12-8, but only due to a VERY good table - lot of ruins and walls. Knights loose 8" movement passing over those.
3. 4 knights, some IG troops - played 2 turns, then my opponent told me he have to drop from tournament. I feel that it goes to draw - I lost 2 DDA and 3 destroyers, but was able to kill 1 knight and engage another one with 5 wounds left by wraiths, immortals were veiled at his deploy. Still, that would be something about 10-10 or even worse - 2 knights kill DDA and my army, immortals kill his home units.

How games went: Opponent usually goes first. He walks knights, and with 3 gatling cannons (38 shots at s6 -2 2) and some other shooting kills 2 DDA. Then i do about 20 wounds to 1 knight. He ignores lower profile and keep killing my antitank till its over.

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You can also use one strategem to make him character with warlord and/or another strategem to make him character and give him relic. Note that the relic strategem alone makes the knight character so you don't need to use BOTH strategems to get relic. So basically:

1CP: Either warlord trait or relic.
2CP: Both warlord trait and relic.

Or both strategems have 3 CP version for 2 knights.

-Sentinel- wrote:
I played tournament last weekend. Between 4 games i had "luck" to play 3 of them against new knights codex. I can say you, its a real problem for us. Btw, 4th game was against imperial guard and i won it 20-0.

My list:

Spoiler:

Nephrekh +5 CP
HQ: Overlord (84) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [87] Warlord: Immortal Pride
HQ: Overlord (84) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [87] Artefact: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 9x Canoptek Scarabs [107]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Canoptek Wraith [330]

Total: 2000
CP: 8

Opponent lists:
1. Bobby G, 3 Knights, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - lost 0-20 to that one
2. Biggest Knight, 2 knights smaller, 2 armigers, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - won 12-8, but only due to a VERY good table - lot of ruins and walls. Knights loose 8" movement passing over those.
3. 4 knights, some IG troops - played 2 turns, then my opponent told me he have to drop from tournament. I feel that it goes to draw - I lost 2 DDA and 3 destroyers, but was able to kill 1 knight and engage another one with 5 wounds left by wraiths, immortals were veiled at his deploy. Still, that would be something about 10-10 or even worse - 2 knights kill DDA and my army, immortals kill his home units.

How games went: Opponent usually goes first. He walks knights, and with 3 gatling cannons (38 shots at s6 -2 2) and some other shooting kills 2 DDA. Then i do about 20 wounds to 1 knight. He ignores lower profile and keep killing my antitank till its over.

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

That was a disheartening read

tneva82 wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You can also use one strategem to make him character with warlord and/or another strategem to make him character and give him relic. Note that the relic strategem alone makes the knight character so you don't need to use BOTH strategems to get relic. So basically:

1CP: Either warlord trait or relic.
2CP: Both warlord trait and relic.

Or both strategems have 3 CP version for 2 knights.

I know it’s a huge financial investment I think ForgeWorld tech is our only answer Arks Pylons and the new Titan anybody seen the rules for it yet? Do any of these knights have Titan keyword though?

-Sentinel- wrote:

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

Good news: Only 24 wounds. 28 is on the biggest chassis only which costs ~600 pts(compared to 350-450 for basic knight chassises) and pays 3CP for extra invulnerable strategem(the strategem you mentioned last. Though mind you it's not shooting but invulnerable save period. Usually means shooting as usually knight save is inv only but there's relic that gives 5++ also in h2h).

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

9 scarabs wont survive one turn against a knight. A shooty knight will kill them before they get to him, and finish the rest in melee. A CC knight will need 1-2 turns to kill them, more like 1 turn. Knights can still shoot and/or charge when they fall back. He doesnt even have to bother with them, when you charge him he can choose to ignore them and walk over them. There is a CC knight which can advance 2D6+2 discarding lowest dice, and charge 3D6+2 discarding lowest dice. His basic movement is 12". With a stratagem he can charge after advancing. Thats a threat range of ~30".

 p5freak wrote:
9 scarabs wont survive one turn against a knight. A shooty knight will kill them before they get to him, and finish the rest in melee. A CC knight will need 1-2 turns to kill them, more like 1 turn. Knights can still shoot and/or charge when they fall back. He doesnt even have to bother with them, when you charge him he can choose to ignore them and walk over them. There is a CC knight which can advance 2D6+2 discarding lowest dice, and charge 3D6+2 discarding lowest dice. His basic movement is 12". With a stratagem he can charge after advancing. Thats a threat range of ~30".

Well yes point wouldn't be to lock them forever but delay them. 10 gretchins won't survive long either. But it will keep h2h knight for 1 turn from charging anything valuable. And you don't charge but go front of him. If he goes sideways good. Takes more time. If not he's stuck as he can't go over them.

Albeit I don't know how expensive scarabs are per area covered. With grots it's cheap to surround knight so that it either shoots(useless with gallant for example) only or charges the chaff you put front as it cannot bypass.

knight

screen

your big unit

As long as screen is wide enough he can't go sideways long(or screen completely surrounds knight) your big unit is 100% safe from the charge.

30 grots gives me screen of 60"(more if they are in separate units as big base of knight means I don't need to have very small gaps only between models) that he cannot get past without killing them. And sure he kills them. But they are dirt cheap unit I don't expect to survive. It will be enough they keep more valuable targets safe from charges. Still leaves shooting to worry but at least it's something. They cannot willy nilly ignore infantry and swarm as that applies only for fall back move.

Even 27 scarabs, which is the max we can have with the rule of 3, will not stop a knight from going whereever he wants to go. A 2k knight list has 3-4 big knights (~400 pts. each), and the rest is filled by armigers (~180 pts each). One or two knights and some armigers will easily kill a 9 scarab unit during shooting. If you put all 27 in front of them you will probably delay them 1 turn, thats it. We cant have 90 scarabs like orks do with gretchin.

Well true that I'm not that familiar with necrons. How wide area 9 scarabs fill? Should block at least one knight from moving around a bit and shooting is after movement so at least some delay.

Also worth keeping in mind with just basic warriors protecting more valuable targets from being charged. Do you want to lose DDA to charge or 10 necron warriors? If you can't kill the knight(and you aren't killing all knights in 1 round ever anyway) next best thing is delay it from doing anything worthwhile. Feeding gallant some necron warriors should(at least to my logic though I'm not familiar with necrons) be preferable to having gallant rampaging across your DDA's and other anti tank units giving you time to deal with shooty knights before they shoot you to death.

9 scarabs can fill 30". DDAs arent effective against knights, because they can get a 3+ invuln sv with a stratagem. Lots of buffed tesla immortals with MWBD and MD are more effective because of volume of fire, unless the knight has a 2+ sv. What is "effective" to stop a knight are nihilakh wraith and their reclaim a lost empire stratagem. When the wraith are within 3" of an objective marker, or didnt move this turn, they get +1 to their saves, giving them a 2+ invuln sv and +1 attack. Wraith are neither INFANTRY nor SWARM. If they surround him he cant fallback. Problem is the wraith need to survive two turns, because they must surround him, the stratagem is played at the end of the turn and lasts for the opponents turn.

They get 3++ for one knight. Potential which you know(who has the 4++ warlord trait). If you shoot at other knights he gets 4++ at best with strategem(at whopping cost of 3CP if it's the big chassis and knights are generally struggling with CP's. They have 11 generally at best if they have IG ally minus bunch for relics and warlord traits). And if he pops strategem you can switch target and hit at 5++ knights instead.

tneva82 wrote:


Good news: Only 24 wounds.

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

1. Yep, my mistake. Played games correctly, i just typed different number.

2. Well, if thats how things goes, then i got cheated in last game. Cause i screened by 2 scarabs between table edge and impassable terrain, and opponent was willing to walk over them.

If i were the knight player i would wait until the necron player uses any of his stratagems before i use my 3+ invuln sv stratagem. Then that strat cant be used against my other 4+ or 5+ invuln knights.

-Sentinel- wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Good news: Only 24 wounds.

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

1. Yep, my mistake. Played games correctly, i just typed different number.

2. Well, if thats how things goes, then i got cheated in last game. Cause i screened by 2 scarabs between table edge and impassable terrain, and opponent was willing to walk over them.

"When this model Falls Back, it can move over enemy INFANTRY and SWARM models,"

If he moved over your infantry/swarm without having started within 1" of your units(ie be in combat) then yes he played incorrectly(whether intentional cheat or not I don't judge). Easy to make as it sounds illogical at first that when you fall back you ignore but when not suddenly tiny grot might just as well be mount everest so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
If i were the knight player i would wait until the necron player uses any of his stratagems before i use my 3+ invuln sv stratagem. Then that strat cant be used against my other 4+ or 5+ invuln knights.

What strategem would that be and is there anything necrons have shooting wise that doesn't really benefit from that but hurts knight? If yes start those. If he pops then switch target, if not you will shoot at will for a while without boosted shield.

And of course if it's not 100% essential don't start with the 4++ knight so he can't get the 3++. Keep that 4++ knight busy meanwhile and concentrate on easier targets.

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

tneva82 wrote:

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

Problem is that they easily ignored degrade for only 1 CP everytime they faced it.

-Sentinel- wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

Problem is that they easily ignored degrade for only 1 CP everytime they faced it.

True that's annoying if they are mechanicum house(iirc it was mechanicum only strategem so if it's imperial house like hawkshround that's out). Way to combat that would be then get multiple ones. Also at least they then burn through their small amount of CP's(I struggle to come up with list that has more than ~5 to begin with. Knights are really starved for CP and only way to get decent amount adds soft bodies to kill)