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As of a few months ago, I don't think many people would argue that the top 5 armies consisted of anything other than (no particular order) Guard, Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and Dark Eldar. I know a lot of people (including me) are still thinking along those lines, but I'm starting to reconsider...

I know a lot of us have watched miniwargaming's Beat Matt Batreps, where his Necrons have won (correct me if I'm wrong) every game they've played. They've beaten IG, Grey Knights, Orks, Tyranids, CSM, and probably more that I can't remember.
There's also Reecius's scarab farm list, and jy2's MTO Necron list. Both of these have proven to be more than a match for the top lists/armies/players out there.

I know these are anecdotal examples and maybe they don't really mean anything, but that's what the discussion is for.

I personally think it's more than just the lists. Scarab Farm and Wraithwing might be akin to Dark Eldar Venom Spam or IG Meltavets, but the Necron codex is full of goodies. The troops choices are solid. Decent damage output, survivable enough to hold objectives, not too expensive. Some of the best anti-tank in the game in Scarabs and Command Barges. And some of the best tools to effectively deal with any threat (mindshackle scarabs, the various crypteks, etc).

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. What do other people think? Are Necrons a solid mid-tier army? Or do you think they've earned a place in the top 5 (maybe even top 3)?

The massive amounts of field control and what seam like super weapons out the wazoo, they have definably jumped up. I would like to see just a couple units toned down though, Imhotep is just way too powerful in my opinion.

They are up there with dark eldar.

The Necrons are very much a glass cannon army.

They're a bit more competitive but not quite top tier. Fortunately for the game, Ward doesn't' care about non-Space Marines very much.

"Behold the glass cannon!"

"It just broke."
" Cut them with the glass and run away!"
sorry, just my thought.
I say top mid tier.

I disagree, personally I think they are one of the worst books GW has made.

They have some serious issues and design flaws I feel like around having to rapid fier and applying enough force.

Darkwynn wrote:I disagree, personally I think they are one of the worst books GW has made.

They have some serious issues and design flaws I feel like around having to rapid fier and applying enough force.

I would be interested to hear more about this. Do you feel this is a product of being designed "with 6th Edition in mind"?

Mech needs to stop being king for them to be better than they are. Glances don't mean much in the game right now.

ivangterrace wrote:
The Necrons are very much a glass cannon army.

More resilient than Marines qualifies as glass cannon?

DarknessEternal wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:
The Necrons are very much a glass cannon army.

More resilient than Marines qualifies as glass cannon?

You don't get as many of them as you do marines since their transports cost so much. Without a res orb you got basically a 5+ invul. Color me not impressed. Once your vehicles get penetrated and quantum shielding goes down, your stuff won't live long.

The Mad Tanker wrote:The massive amounts of field control and what seam like super weapons out the wazoo, they have definably jumped up. I would like to see just a couple units toned down though, Imhotep is just way too powerful in my opinion.

Just curious, how is Imotekh overpowered? Aside from the nightfighting / lightning, after it wears off, how is he powerful?

ivangterrace wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:
The Necrons are very much a glass cannon army.

More resilient than Marines qualifies as glass cannon?

You don't get as many of them as you do marines since their transports cost so much. Without a res orb you got basically a 5+ invul. Color me not impressed. Once your vehicles get penetrated and quantum shielding goes down, your stuff won't live long.

Reanimation protocols is nothing like a 5+ invulnerable save. Because you still get a 4+ or sometimes 3+ armor save, than if they fall they have a chance of always getting up on a 5+ or 4+, it's more like FNP, except it can't be negated except by wiping out the whole unit. But no, Necrons are not a "Glass cannon" Their more like a solid metal cannon that has a chance of putting it's self back together.

I actually think they are since I'm not sure i've sene a battle report in a whiel where they haven't won. Think Matt has won all his matches with Necrons as well. Jy2's necrons recently beat that insane deathguard army with his necrons.
They look really strong to me.

They are glass cannons. Saying they are more resilient than marines is not correct. Necrons have a worse armour save, but they have RP. So Warriors are as resilient as Marines, but not more so. Immortals are slightly more so as they have the same armour save as Marines, and RP. However, Necrons buckle in CC much, much faster than Marines do. And RP is not that fantastic in CC, as the Necrons are almost always striking last, which means that not all of them actually get to hit back because RP takes place after combat is resolved.

Now, I play against Blood Angels a lot, and against DOA or a mech BA list, I'd found Necrons to struggle immensely. It's just a bad matchup because of the CC-oriented FNP troops. However, against armies like Vanilla Marines, Tau or even Space Wolves, the Necrons are excellent. And against IG, whoever goes first usually wins.

Gornall wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:I disagree, personally I think they are one of the worst books GW has made.

They have some serious issues and design flaws I feel like around having to rapid fier and applying enough force.

I would be interested to hear more about this. Do you feel this is a product of being designed "with 6th Edition in mind"?

Who knows for sure till 6th edition comes out. I would like to think so but if they change the phases and how rapid fire works I can see them becoming much better.

That being said they still don't fix the basic issues of Leadership for them and close Combat. Only time will tell but more and more even with people like JY and others playing I still feel them as a horrible expensive book. Have fun playing them but don't be surprised when you get destoryed by IG, Space Wolves, Grey knights and a lot of other list.

They still have no answer for Paladins.
Mass Grey Hunters Squads
a solid Leaf Blower type list played by a strong player.

Darkwynn wrote:

They still have no answer for Paladins.
Mass Grey Hunters Squads
a solid Leaf Blower type list played by a strong player.

Paladins - pretty sure lances from the cryptek's are str 8 ap 2... paladins only have a 5+ invul vs shooting so those are pretty much instagib shots.

Grey Hunters squads is a bit finicky... Grey hunters are probably some of the best troop choices in the game for their point cost and equipment. I'd say as many wounds as possible is the best best. They are just a 3+ afterall.

Leaf blower by a strong player can take on almost anything in the 40k universe so not sure what the argument is here. A strong player using the right crypteks , scarabs, and vehicles can deal with this... these games it seems whoever goes first wins.

I'll say that on paper, necrons don't look too appealing, but in practice, they're a very effective army.

I'm 11-2-0 with my wraith wing at the moment, and i've had a hard time losing with other necron builds. Jy2 has also posted a lot of Ws if you look at his batreps. In fact, I'm hard pressed to find batreps that don't have necron wins.

I think that they're a very strong army with a lot of options for style of play; they're hard to put down and keep down, Immortals are definitely more resilient than marines for 1 point more, and the entire fast attack category is just outstanding (excluding tomb blades, only because I haven't had first hand experience with them yet)

If the Leakhammer ruleset turns out to be accurate, than it's pretty clear that they were designed with 6 in mind, and under 6e rules they're even better.

While I wouldn't say that it's a codex on par with IG, SW, or GK (as far as spammable units FTW), it still gives you the tools to construct some very good lists.

Sorry to say but whoever thought Necron are glass Cannons are simply wrong, they are basically immune to da dakka you need to bring ht fight to them.

I also disagree with necrons as glass cannons as they are alot tougher than marines.

You can still blow up alot of marines with AP 2-3 plasmas but you rarely keep all the necrons down with similar weapons. Torrent of fire usually is AP5 or - so they usually will get their armor saves. Also, even with whiping out whole units, have you tried to shoot 20 man blobs to death in one round? Between range/missing/armor/cover usually, and RP with EL crypteks, it has taken me between 2 and 5 rounds of nearly the whole army shooting to down one such blob.

As to necrons sucking in assault? uh.. wraithwing and scarab farm has something to say to that.
Mind shackle scarabs, quake staffs, seismic crucible, just sheer volume of bodies has seen just regular necron blobs whipe out the very common 5-6 man terminator squads.

So far, tesla weapons in my opinion are just silly for volume of fire (+arcing!). I've had more effective shots come at me from one squad of immortals than from a full blob of IG with FRFSRF. AP means little when you force the other guy to take 15 armor saves fairly easily.