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Just wanted to share some thoughts and experience with the most ruthless killers in the dark eldar world... the Incubi...

Incubi are one of those units who have a reputation.

The first time someone faces incubi there is always that same face of shock and awe as you outline their obscene stats. Weapon skill 5 typically means 3’s to hit. 3 attacks each. Strength 4 and power weapons at initiative 5. Backed up with fleet and a 3+ save. Scary stuff.

They do have weaknesses though. They can be pricey and lack grenades to attack with their cool initiative if you need to go for enemy in cover.

Most of the thoughts behind incubi on the net suggest 4-6 models with 7 being the max and 5 the norm (or 4 plus archon but we will get to that). The main theory is that you charge your 5 men into the enemy kill half, stay locked in combat and then break/wipe them the following phase.

Thing is – its my opinion that the internet has it all wrong.

First, lets look at the stats. Statistically, Incubi will kill 1 MEQ per incubi on the charge (3 attacks hitting on 3’s = 2 hits. S4 vs T4 is 4’s to wound = 1 wound with a power weapon). Excellent stuff. That said, what happens when they get hit back?

In a real scenario we know the 5 incubi will kill 5 marines on average rolls so taking the ‘stay in combat’ route we would charge 8-10 model squads. Given MEQ units typically don’t get their cool toys until 10 models, this is the target. 10 tactical marines with power fist sarge, melta gun & missile launcher. The all rounder of marines.

5 Incubi Charge, 15 attacks, 10 hits, 5 wounds, 5 kills thanks to power weapons.
4 marines fight back, 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, 0.44 kills
Power fist sarge fights, 2 attacks, 1 hit, 0.83 wounds, 0.83 kills thanks to the power fist.

So the incubi win combat by around 4 (loosing one of their number in the process). The marines may choose to fail their LD test thanks to combat tactics but lets assume they choose to roll it. They have effective LD 5 at this stage so odds are in favour they will fail and then you will sweep them triggering ATSKNF which turns the sweep into no retreat. They lost by 4 models so its 4 more saves which will net another 1.33 dead marines. If they choose to fall back, ATSKNF still triggers no retreat the same way.

Round 2 of combat now and its 4 incubi vs 4 marines. Incubi strike for 8 attacks bagging 2.6 kills. Even rounding this up to 3 dead marines the fist sarge will more than likely take another incubi with him. Odds on now he will go down to no retreat and we pick up a pain token.

So 110pts of incubi have bagged 200pts of tactical marines! Hazzah! But let’s look at the incubi unit that we have left. 3 models is really no threat to any but the most weakened of enemy units and is likely to be wiped out if they charge a full strength one. So its either dive for cover at which point they contribute nothing or thrown them into a combat they cannot win and take some of the enemy with you. So we got one effective charge and they are done.

Now what happens if we went with a 10 man squad. On the charge we will now wipe the tactical marines for no losses on average rolls (30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds) and pick up that all important pain token. At this stage we have our 220point having taken out a 200pt enemy unit so it’s a good win for us but of course now we are going to get shot at.

A lot.

We have assault troops on crack and the enemy has just seen them mince a unit without trying. He needs them dead now. Thing is, even if he half kills the squad, they still have the ability to take out another MEQ squad before becoming combat ineffective. With a good consolidate and position you may also get cover with some luck. Even without it, the FNP incubi are durable as heck. It takes around 14 bolter shots to get 1 FNP incubi. So a 10 man squad in rapid fire range lights the incubi up with a melta gun, frag missile (4 hits) and 15 bolter shots. That volley will manage just under 3 kills. 7 incubi will be more than enough to take them out and still have 5-6 left over after the inevitable fist sarge kills one. Thing is now I have furious charge. My 220 point unit has soaked fire and is now just as dangerous as a larger unit as I am S5 now. If the enemy points more guns at them prior to the charge (say 10 more marines) I will still more than likely have a combat effective unit of 4-6 models. Plus I have taken 600 points of the enemy out of the game for a turn at minimum.

Now what about a unit of grey hunters – 9 GH, melta gun, mark of the wulfen, power weapon, wolf standard, wolfguard with power fist and combi melta. A pretty standard unit for me to see.

5 Incubi charge this and kill 5 normal grey hunters exactly like a tactical squad. Then the hunters attack back. They will most likely have counter attack (LD9) active and the banner popped.

2 normal GH, 6 attacks will result in around 0.4 wounds after FNP & saves.
1 GH with PW, 3 attacks is around 1.1 kills
1 GH with MotW, average of 5 attacks is just over 1 kill thanks to rending
1 WG with fist is 3 attacks and just over 1 kill from the fist.
So we kill 5 grey hunters but loose between 3 and 4 incubi in return. Sure we win but they wipe us next turn with maybe 1-2 more losses and no real impact on the combat ability as they have their fist and melta.

10 Incubi wipe this unit for no losses again.
What about getting charged? No one is dumb enough to charge incubi unless they have to or have a unit guaranteed to win (purifier halberds spling to mind). 10 incubi will manage 6-7 kills while the 5 is only 3-4. I guarantee the 10 man squad is effective when it walks out of the combat. The 5 man may not get out at all.

Even cover becomes less of an issue with 10 models.

Its generally agreed that you need an archon with phantasm grenade launcher so that the incubi have assault grenades. A basic archon with PGL, SF & agoniser is 135 points. Assuming he goes with 4 incubi we now have a 223 point unit. 10 Incubi is 220.
Charging cover with 10 marines defending.
Archon, 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 kills
4 Incubi, 12 attacks, 8 hits, 4 kills
3 marines plus fist attack back and will generally get 1 kill. They lose another to no retreat.
Round 2, Archon manages 1.5 kills while the 3 incubi manage 2. With some luck you wipe the unit. Otherwise you lose another incubi and beat him with no retreat. So we now have 2 incubi plus an archon.
With the 10 man unit…
9 marines manage 1 kill after saves and the fist accounts for another. So 2 losses. My 8 remaining incubi will kill 8 marines on average so I win by 6. I will probably win through no retreat wounds and wipe them out. I am in cover with FNP for the enemy shooting phase.
As you can see, the losses have been the same on both sides but the 10 incubi do it much more efficiently and give the least amount of chances for the enemy to bail the embattled unit out of combat as it’s all said and done in 1 turn.

It also frees up the all important HQ choice to be elsewhere in the army bolstering another unit.

One thing that should be noted - always add the klaivex. The LD boost is invaluable especially against pinning.

I hope this has made you have a second look at a larger unit of incubi rather than just going to the 4 plus archon route that I see so often. Trust me when I say they first time you deploy this unit and charge something, the opponents face makes it all worth it! If you have any suggestions or comments feel free! Incubi are one of my favorite units and i think seeing more on the table is only a good thing!

Happy hunting!

The point of 5 charging is that they will not get shot at. It really is that simple. 110 taking out 200 is fantastic. The problem with the way you did it was that you used only one enemy type as the victims, and that you gave your guys the charge every time. Also, you fail to realize that 1/5 of the marine you fight will be the blood angels cheese that also have FNP, without having to kill and entire unit first. 7 is ideal IMHO because it is enough to put so much hurt on the marines that they won't do too much damage to your incubi, but you still get that all important shooting immunity. FNP is only mildly helpful against 90 lasgun shots. Also, for 10 points you can just go the MSU road. If you really want a unit dead than charge it, and charge whatever nasty surprise your opponent has for the first unit.

im2randomghgh wrote:The point of 5 charging is that they will not get shot at.

Great - they are still useless with only 2-3 models left.

im2randomghgh wrote:110 taking out 200 is fantastic.

Agreed!

im2randomghgh wrote:The problem with the way you did it was that you used only one enemy type as the victims, and that you gave your guys the charge every time. Also, you fail to realize that 1/5 of the marine you fight will be the blood angels cheese that also have FNP, without having to kill and entire unit first.

Now you have lost me - i compared to a normal Tac squad and a typical grey hunter pack so thats 2 different sqauds for starters. Second, Incubi should be getting the charge almost every time thanks to fleet and a fast open topped transport. If you read the whole article you will see i do mention what happens if they get charged. In regards to FNP blood angels - what has that got to do with it - incubi have power weapons so FNP is useless. Sure the normal attacks come at initiative 5 if they charge but like i just said - they should not be.

im2randomghgh wrote: 7 is ideal IMHO because it is enough to put so much hurt on the marines that they won't do too much damage to your incubi, but you still get that all important shooting immunity.

You will still loose 1-2 incubi and potentially still then be out in the open thanks to no retreat. This is the crux of the arguement I make. 5 is not killy enough as the unit is ineffective post combat from the inevitable power fist sarge. With 10 on the charge i should take almost no losses and be left in the open - which is what would happen to 7 since they would probably still wipe the enemy thanks to no retreat but have taken losses intot he bargin.

im2randomghgh wrote:FNP is only mildly helpful against 90 lasgun shots.

Lets see then huh? 90 shots, 45 hits, 23 wounds (rounding up)

Without FNP i take 7-8 deaths.
Win FNP i take 3-4. Seems pretty valuable to me and more than midly helpful since my 10 man squad is still combat effective.

im2randomghgh wrote:Also, for 10 points you can just go the MSU road.

Not even sure what this means...

im2randomghgh wrote:If you really want a unit dead than charge it, and charge whatever nasty surprise your opponent has for the first unit.

I agree - its what incubi do - they are shock troops. Thing is, 10 ensures the result and means the incubi will be in a position to aid in the coming turn or soak so much fire that the rest of your force is intact.

Might want to re-think the Archon with Phantasms, especially when charging squads with PWs (i.e. Grey Knights, other Incubi, Terminators or a number of other squads). The archon allowing them to attack first is usually the only thing that allows them to make points against these squads, and in some armies these are the only viable targets for the Incubi to attack. Don'w forget that the phantasms also give them defensive grenades, prolonging their life if they are the victims. Finally don't neglect the fact that the Archon has a 2++ if the enemy decides to put attacks on him (and they typically do because of how dangerous he is) and if they don't then let them cut down the Incubi as he goes to town on them.

Also something to keep in mind, when you do attack you want to keep your squad locked in combat most of the time (typically you're assaulting a MSU of MEQs for your example) so you kill between 3-4 leave 1-2 up to retaliate and they might kill one of you. Next round you finish them off then you're set up to charge another squad or hop back into your venom. If you had a 10m squad making this assault you would be mulched by dakka (typically double what other squads would have had to deal with due to your close proximity and rapid fire weapons of many armies). The point of the Incubi is not to wreck a board on their own, they are much better suited at engaging a few MSUs of enemies and making their points back by the end. Use them in conjunction with Wyches tar pitting a painful unit (such as halberd Gks) and you can charge into them and avenge the fallen gladiator girls.

Don't forget...if a SM player uses combat tactics they still have to pass an Int test...and if they fail (you have the higher Int) they will take a few more no retreat save and hurt themselves even more.

@Massaen. Nothing personal but your post is very hard to follow because of the excessive use of new lines. It might just be my widescreen, but it seems like every second sentence is on a new line so its hard to follow your line of thought or identify your conclusions.

Provided that the Incubi are not the only combat unit in your army I think the best way to run them is 7-8 strong with a Haemonculi attached (initially). For me the key really is letting them eat through more than one squad of MEQ, its ok for a 5 man unit to delete a combat squad then die (which is ok for its cost) but for larger units you want to ensure they kill more than one unit. FNP to start with maximises their chances of hitting combat intact and makes them an absolute priority after they kill a squad (with Furious Charge they scare everything and will roll up an enemy army if they get another charge off).

The Archon with PGL lets them assault into cover, but the issue is that then the unit is either a) large, expensive, fairly fragile and a massive target (not a good plan when your transports have zero durability) or b) sub optimal to the point the PGL isn't really that helpful (if you have 4 + Archon for example). The thing is that without him you can still easily assault into cover against the vast majority of units if you start a Haemonculi with them thanks to FNP, and the few units you can't take you can usually deal with with a good supporting charge.
If the unit you are charging has less than 4 power weapon/ 3 Fist attacks (Fists are same time so its 50/50 whether you count them, depends on how much more work the Incubi have to do) then even striking last you should still be smashing units apart. You lose maybe 1 Incubi to power weapons and 1 max to normal attacks (3+/4+++ is tough to get through) and then hit back with a heap of power weapon attacks. If the unit you are assaulting is heavy on power weapons (Terminators etc) then all you do is throw another assault unit in at the same time (Wyches, Beasts with Khymerae), the other unit moves in first and gets into BtB with as many models as possible, while the Incubi concentrate on 1-2 guys (which is easy to do with good positioning) which limits the return strikes.

In a dark eldar army, it's my philosophy that you need to make sure that you aren't giving your enemy any obvious targets. You want all of your units to be roughly equally threatening to your opponent to make target priority a difficult task for them. The problem with taking 10 Incubi in a single unit is that it provides the enemy with an obvious target. You have roughly 300 points tied up in a unit of 10 incubi when you give them a raider to ride in, but it's still an armor 10 transport that any decent army should be able to take out in a single turn if they focus fire into it. You're then left with 10 footslogging T3 models with only a 3+ save to keep them alive and no ranged weapons. I can see a large unit doing well on foot in a WWP list, but not in a mechanized list due to the fragility of dark eldar transports.

I guess i like to take risks as I am more than willing to fly 24" turn 1 and let the paper plane go down... i will have cover and be on the enmy lines turn 2.

@powerguy - yeah the formatting is garbage as i wrote on a lap top and not my 23" monitor - sorry! :-)

Running 10 in a game less than a ocuple of hours ago cost me 2 raiders (they embarked into an empty one after the first got wrecked) but managed to take out 20 tac marines and 7 sternguard with 3 models still alive at the end of the game - not shabby!

Massaen wrote:I guess i like to take risks as I am more than willing to fly 24" turn 1 and let the paper plane go down... i will have cover and be on the enmy lines turn 2.

@powerguy - yeah the formatting is garbage as i wrote on a lap top and not my 23" monitor - sorry! :-)

Running 10 in a game less than a ocuple of hours ago cost me 2 raiders (they embarked into an empty one after the first got wrecked) but managed to take out 20 tac marines and 7 sternguard with 3 models still alive at the end of the game - not shabby!

I'm with you Massaen, I love the big Incubi blobs. I use mine in a triple WWP with Drazhar and a fully geeked Klaivex (minus Onslaught of course). I find the never taken by most bloodstone to be a good fill in for nades, you generally can knock a unit down a peg or two so that the effects of striking last are minimized.


I almost always double assault with them. 11 Models can fan out to 33" wide, not incredibly difficult to pull that off. Actually, when the opportunity presents itself, I triple assault with them. Try to grab two units with the Incubi and send Drazhar and the Klaivex at a vehicle. Either way, you knock out two units the turn you arrive and then you've got a Fearless (because of Draz), FNP, furious charging power house for the rest of the game. It's good times.

This just seems to confirm is that sweet-spot of 7 models.
It should kill 6-8 men on the charge, leaving 2-4 alive, you'll lose maybe 1-2 incubi, then you'll have 5-6 left to slaughter the remaining 2-4 marines in the enemy squad.
Then you have your shiny 5-6 man squad of death with feel no pain left to move on to the next squad - killing 4-7 men on the charge, losing maybe 1.
This leaves 4-6 men to wipe out the remainder, rinse and repeat.

One good tactic i havent tested yet is to split my space wolves into two even parts amd have them on the left and right corner with long fangs in either side

I agree.... Incubi are great at CC.... Problem for me with incubi is,

- they compete for elite slot with trueborn
- they are pretty expensive, for a pure cc unit, when I. Prefer shooting and alot of smaller units.
- lack of an invun makes fighting the inevitable counter charge by anything with power weapons, or. A big blob of lots of attacks ( nobs etc) means they suffer.
- t3 getting shot by anything sucks. Getting hurt in the raider crash hurts, and with so much str6 guns out there, FNP is to reliable to back them.

Now, in a pure CC army, I may see a use.... But I would rather take my blaster born, or even a squad of trueborn with carbines and splinter cannons, so I can kill with impunity at range, and not have to worry about that counter charge. (wich often times can be a dread or something the incubi can't hurt )

Edit: just to further expand, blaster born (4 TB 4 blasters, venom, 2 splinter cannon) is 173 pts. It can effectively reduce. A marine or meq squad to rubble.

4 tb -3 hits, 3 dead marines, 12 splinter shots, 8 its, 4 wounds, another marine down.. That's 4 marine kills at 18" range. not as reliable as an incubi charge perhaps, BUT, the unit is effective against EVERYTHING, it's dirt cheap, and I have 3 of. Them, that can shoot at 6 targets or. Focus fire if I need to. Incubi can't say that.

Yeah - you like the shooting, personally I'm running my elites slots full of Grotesques, and my troops with wracks.

Depends on your personal preference in the end.
If you don't want to run razorspam there's a world of oppurtunities opens up for you

The whole thing with incubi is picking your fights, and you composition. You ignored not having an Archon...ok grazed it. Charging 5 guys with 5 you should kill them all, but the thing is where you attack. People will charge them if they can with something like BT termis. You swing simultaneously and they can put the wounds on the SS. It's Incubi are nasty, but like anything else in the DE book its all finesse. Would I hit longfangs with 'em? Yep. Combat squad, with PW or PF? Yep again, 30 man ork squad? After shooting a little yeah. Termis? No, Full tactical squad again no. You want marines to fall back, especial since you should catch them. Leaving 1-2 guys and having lost 1. So you kill them on their turn netting you the win having 3 guys with the archon which is still do able.

Ovion wrote:This just seems to confirm is that sweet-spot of 7 models.
It should kill 6-8 men on the charge, leaving 2-4 alive, you'll lose maybe 1-2 incubi, then you'll have 5-6 left to slaughter the remaining 2-4 marines in the enemy squad.
Then you have your shiny 5-6 man squad of death with feel no pain left to move on to the next squad - killing 4-7 men on the charge, losing maybe 1.
This leaves 4-6 men to wipe out the remainder, rinse and repeat.

This.

Also, In my original response when I wrote for 10 points you can go the MSU road, I meant those point, I have no idea how I confused "those" with 10 but I did.

I like to use 7, plus an Archon/SC and a haemonculi or two, usually from a WWP.

I also use small incubi units in venoms, accompanying SC's or HQ's.

I like the ideas coming out from this - great info guys!

On the topic of blasterborn - personally i dislike this unit intensely. Its fragile and seems almost suidical most of the time. I run lanceborn for support and they work for me - the incubi supply a nice divert in terms of enemy attention!

Some one earlier mentioned finess - thats 100% true. You need to pick your fights. No way would i charge THSS termies with them though LC or tactical termies i would consider. Even squads of 5 GK termies or paladins i would consider with 10 incubi.

Like i said - this is all health discussion! Keep the ideas coming!

yevinhc wrote:One good tactic i havent tested yet is to split my space wolves into two even parts amd have them on the left and right corner with long fangs in either side

Heh.

Against the DE, I wouldn't mind too much. Mission dependent fold a side.

Had 5 Incubi coming out of a double WWP list today vrs Night Scythe, Doom Scythe spam. They took out an Overlord which really was the only valid target due to the troops going back into reserve rule. Boo.

The problem with the Incubi is they only fill a sole function in the list, killing troops. They were a liability with all the flyers around, more points in them will be a waste sometimes. I had pain tokens well distributed, but the massed (8) tesla destructor and 3 death ray's with the 2 CC barge lords does some damage. Was 2 objectives, and lost 1-0 in the end. Have played vrs a similar version with the "cookie cut" DE list venom/raiders/ravagers/blasters/wyches etc, the tesla's are tough to counter. Weakness of the necron list is its footprint ,if using vendettas, takes up most of the deployment zone in pitched battle. Night shields and extreme flanking may work, just bought the tools today to play myself at home lol. Beer cans for scenery, will put a BR up with the game today at some point.

Back to the post, I don't believe we can analyse the usefulness of the unit in that "vacuum" without the rest of the list and a strategy. It will determine their role. Main thing for me is that the Incubi are an AI unit that fills a slot really required for AT, we can kill in fast with Hellions w Baron and 2 pain tokens/Beasts w Baron ,or probably better, in troops with our wyches.

Are the paragraphs I have written difficult to read? I had no problem reading the stuff in the earlier post.

An interesting topic. I have had some local players in my area tell me that they reckon Incubi are not really worth it in the new codex, but I love my incubi so I always use them in 1500 and above

Personally I run 4 incub in a venomi with an archon with a PGL, and since i'm a bit nuts a djinn blade lol. Since I use two squads of wyches I usually run those into larger marine squads (except purifiers for obvious reasons) and try to find smaller squads that are isolated for the archon/incubi to pick on and they do pretty well. Since my archon has combat drugs they have a 1 in 6 chance to start with FNP as well, but usually have no problem in picking up a pain token early on, as the wyches raiders normally attract more attention from my opponent.

Its a bitter pill to swallow to realise that each incubus only kills 1 MEQ on the charge with averages as their stats do have a tendency to make you think they're awesome, but they do have a place as a decent distraction unit. The SW unit that was mentioned above - I played a game recetnly where I ran with 6 incubi plus the archon in a raider instead of my usual 4 in a venom. They got the charge and finished the Wolves off in my opponent's turn taking no casualties. They then charged a second unit of GH, killed a few but were then charged by Ragnar plus some more GH and took a country style beating, but overall I felt that destroying 1 + 1/2 squads and diverting a combat beast character away from my squishy warrior and wych units was worth it

Caranthir987 wrote:
Its a bitter pill to swallow to realise that each incubus only kills 1 MEQ on the charge with averages as their stats do have a tendency to make you think they're awesome, but they do have a place as a decent distraction unit.

1MeQ/Model on the charge is actually really really really good for their price. By comparison, the ZOMG awesome Paladins only kill 1.33ish on the charge, depending on their load out, and they are more then twice as expensive.

With Furious it goes up to 1.33 MeQ/Model and with Murderous Assault it goes up to 1.5ish. Not bad at all.

I really think people need to experiment with taking them big more, but that strat really lends itself to WWP and most people have trouble properly manipulating that style of list.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Caranthir987 wrote:
Its a bitter pill to swallow to realise that each incubus only kills 1 MEQ on the charge with averages as their stats do have a tendency to make you think they're awesome, but they do have a place as a decent distraction unit.

1MeQ/Model on the charge is actually really really really good for their price. By comparison, the ZOMG awesome Paladins only kill 1.33ish on the charge, depending on their load out, and they are more then twice as expensive.

With Furious it goes up to 1.33 MeQ/Model and with Murderous Assault it goes up to 1.5ish. Not bad at all.

I really think people need to experiment with taking them big more, but that strat really lends itself to WWP and most people have trouble properly manipulating that style of list.

Except Paladins have force weapons and two wounds, plus higher T and S, Plus terminator armour, can also shoot stuff etc. etc.

Not a big fan of Incubi, for many of the reasons DarthSpader mentioned.

It really boils down to versatility. Incubi are a very one-dimensional unit, focused on a small niche of assaulting expensive, elite troops, but not other nasty melee units.

Unfortunately, they are fairly expensive, and pretty "meh" against the majority of armies that don't have units like those mentioned above. IG? They're weak against vehicles, and sure they can kill an infantry squad, but they'll get obliterated by shooting shortly after disembarking.

if only they could be taken as a retinue ala the old codex...... then they would be SO much better.... instead of that fething court BS....

HAHA! The court is my next thread as i am presently using one...

On the paladin front - remember 5 paladins are 275 points - more than twice the cost of the 5 incubi and only do about the same damage...

Massaen wrote:HAHA! The court is my next thread as i am presently using one...

On the paladin front - remember 5 paladins are 275 points - more than twice the cost of the 5 incubi and only do about the same damage...

Except they shoot, have psychic power, 2W, terminator armour, force weapons, +s, +T...

A problem i have noticed is that there are so many things that are good vs troops and not so mutch vs tanks. Last game I played I was afraid that his long range weaponds would wreck every means I had of taking out his big guns. (As it turned out, he suddenly had very few long ranged weapons left by the time I only had one raider, venom and ravager.)

Mind you I am run 2 packs of wytches, 2 venoms and some helions. I would like some Incuby (that will be at some point in the future) as they are neat and a good plan vs blood angel chaliche bubbels. However, I do feel that venoms would be better in moast cases, but vs 2+ or 3+(feel no pain) I do feel that incuby could be good.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Massaen wrote:HAHA! The court is my next thread as i am presently using one...

On the paladin front - remember 5 paladins are 275 points - more than twice the cost of the 5 incubi and only do about the same damage...

Except they shoot, have psychic power, 2W, terminator armour, force weapons, +s, +T...

But they don't have I5, ability to get FNP without spending 75 points on an upgrade, ability to get furious charge, the ability to get fearless, access to cheap delivery systems (WWP or open topped vehicles), secsier looking models, etc etc.

The point is, within the frame of point efficiently killing stuffs in assault, they grade out quite well. Naturally there are many other things to consider with both units, or any units for that matter, but my response in particular was to some one stating that they were disappointed in there offensive output in assault, which I found odd because on a killing ability/point spent basis they are amongst the upper tiers of the game, at least within the scope of the assault.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Massaen wrote:HAHA! The court is my next thread as i am presently using one...

On the paladin front - remember 5 paladins are 275 points - more than twice the cost of the 5 incubi and only do about the same damage...

Except they shoot, have psychic power, 2W, terminator armour, force weapons, +s, +T...

But they don't have I5

Pre sure that they have a thing that can give them I6?

Oh and the psychic power>pain tokens.

How is hammerhand better than pain tokens???

The +1S is nice but LD 9 means its a risk for little reward against T3...

By contrast, the incubi can get FNP for free (which when paladins face incubi is a waste for both sides) then get +1S and +1I from FC... then fearless, which the paladins can not get...

But thats OT.

I hope at least it has sparked some intrest in running a larger incubi squad - any other ideas or thoughts are more than welcome!

Massaen wrote:How is hammerhand better than pain tokens???

The +1S is nice but LD 9 means its a risk for little reward against T3...

By contrast, the incubi can get FNP for free (which when paladins face incubi is a waste for both sides) then get +1S and +1I from FC... then fearless, which the paladins can not get...

But thats OT.

I hope at least it has sparked some intrest in running a larger incubi squad - any other ideas or thoughts are more than welcome!

Incubi simply will never beat paladins.

A big squad can take 10 wounds without removing a model, plus even PWs have to deal with 5++

Point for point - incubi will do ok against paladins...

Assuming 10 incubi, klaivex, demi klaives, onslaught (270) vs 5 paladins hammerx1, sword x2, halberdx2 (275)

Incubi should get charge thanks to fleet... pallies should get hammerhand off

Halberds first @Int6 - 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.66 kill (round up to 2)
Klaivex simultaneous - 4 attacks, 2.66 hits, 0.88 wounds after 4++ saves. There is a rasonable change of onslaught going off which tips this up to around 1 wound post saves.

Int5 we have 7 incubi - 21 attacks, 11 (10.5) hits, 5 wounds (with 2 onslaughts) so after wound allocation we get 1 wound on the swords (he is dead) 1 on the halberds and rounding up 1 on the hammer. The 2 onslaughts net little thanks to the sword still in play.

Int 4 we have 1 sword, 2 attacks, 1 hit, 0.83 wounds so another dead incubi.

Int 1 we get another dead incubi thanks to the hammer....

So totals we have 4 wounds from the paladins and around 4 from the incubi though this is a little grey thanks to the wound allocation plus onslaught.

Generally - this combat will be a draw... without hammer hand it goes to the incubi slightly, without the charge, the pallies win.

Point for point they are quite even