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So i am rather new to 40k and am trying to find an army that i really like. So far i have about 1k points worth of IG, and while I love my flashlights i do want to try something with a little more bite.

here is my idea:

HQ:
Sorcerer
Warp Time

Troops:
3: 9 man Chaos Marines
Lascannon
Plasma Gun
Aspiring Champion
Chaos Glory

Lessor Daemons

Heavy Support:
Predator Tank
Twin-linked Lascannon
Lascannon Sponsons
Demonic Possession

as i said rather new to all this so any help would be greatly appreciated

Disclaimer: I run mono-Nurgle and am pretty partial.

It's just my opinion, but what a Daemon Prince with Wings and Warptime gives me for 180ish points is too good to pass up.

I would be inclined to field either Plague Marines or Thousand Sons in rhinos as opposed to plain Jane CSM's.

Obliterators are awesome.

I was think of running one of them, but after some research i found both rather expensive (both points and cash)

disturedspider wrote:I was think of running one of them, but after some research i found both rather expensive (both points and cash)

You need Obliterators. They are the best Heavy Support choice in the CSM codex. If you are serious about CSM, get at least 6, and preferably 9.

Chaos Vindicator with Daemonic Possession is also really solid for a Heavy Support choice. It ignores stunned & shaken, and fires a 24" ST10 AP2 pie plate. You combine
this with Lash of Submission, which I will touch upon next.

2x Daemon Princes with Mark of Slaaneesh and Lash of Submission. The Lash of submission has a range of 24", and allows you to move & clump
the targeted unit 2d6" any way you want. Lash + Obliterators or Lash + Vindicator or Lash + Move enemy to tactical position; see where I am going with this?
Since you have 2 Daemon Princes, you can Lash of Submission the same unit twice in a row if needed.

I believe 5 man strong Plague Marines with 2x Melta Guns in a Rhino are the best infantry choice in the book. Run 4 of these for MSU board control.

Warptime was nerfed really bad in the latest FAQ. It's not even really worth taking anymore. Lash Princes are THE competitive choice now. The only other HQ I would consider for CSM at this point is a Khorne lord with lightning claws. Even Lash got nerfed, but not that bad. With CSM, you need to be awake that 80% of the units in our codex suck. I don't just mean they're "ok, and have their uses". I mean they suck.

Let me give a full unit rundown for you, so you can decide for yourself what you want to run.
Daemon Princes are the best HQ choice we have. They're one of two reasons people choose to play CSM over normal marines (other than fluff). If you're all about being competitive, bring two. Gear them up to your liking, but always take wings.
Chaos Lords are "ok." They don't completely suck, but they're nowhere near as useful as a DP. DPs help win games. This guy helps win a combat.
Chaos Sorcerers are about the same as lords. Their only good value is using Lash while hiding in a unit, something a DP can't do.
Possessed suck. Don't even think about it. Moving on.
Chaos Dreads are kinda risky, but now that the FAQ has cleared up the LOS issue, they're slightly better. They still have a chance to do something you don't want them to 1/3 of the time though. They can be good, if you're lucky.
Chaos Terminators are the bomb. Best elites choice we have by far. Can do just about everything effectively.
Chaos Chosen have their uses, but aren't really hardcore competitive. Outflanking in a Rhino with 5 meltaguns is their best ploy. Can work if you're lucky.
Chaos Space Marines are just that. Marines. They know fear, though, which doesn't have to be a bad thing. About average on the whole scale of things. But we're not looking for average, are we?
Khorne Berzerkers are really, really good on the charge. You have to get them there though. And if you get assaulted or shot, they die just as easily as regular marines. And since they're kinda expensive, that really sucks.
Thousand Sons have one purpose only. To kill basic MEQ. Anything else will destroy them. Not for an all comers list.
Noise Marines are kinda silly. Loading them up with sonic blasters makes a very good all around unit, good at shooting and assault. The downside is that they're not the best at either, and they're expensive as crap, and die just like regular marines.
Plague Marines are the obvious competitive choice in troops for CSM. Feel no pain, T5, and 2 special weapons with just 5 of them. Makes other armies jealous.
Ignore CSM's fast attack section. They're not for serious gaming. I've heard large squads of Raptors with mark of Nurgle can make a decent assault unit though, but that would be expensive, and probably not worth it.
In your Heavy Support Slots, you really can't make any bad choices. Anything you take here will be effective. However, Obliterators are the best unit in our codex, by far. 2 Daemon Princes and 9 Obliterators is the best start to any competitive CSM army.

So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

UberhAxTHC wrote:Warptime was nerfed really bad in the latest FAQ. It's not even really worth taking anymore. Lash Princes are THE competitive choice now. The only other HQ I would consider for CSM at this point is a Khorne lord with lightning claws. Even Lash got nerfed, but not that bad. With CSM, you need to be awake that 80% of the units in our codex suck. I don't just mean they're "ok, and have their uses". I mean they suck.

Let me give a full unit rundown for you, so you can decide for yourself what you want to run.
Daemon Princes are the best HQ choice we have. They're one of two reasons people choose to play CSM over normal marines (other than fluff). If you're all about being competitive, bring two. Gear them up to your liking, but always take wings.
Chaos Lords are "ok." They don't completely suck, but they're nowhere near as useful as a DP. DPs help win games. This guy helps win a combat.
Chaos Sorcerers are about the same as lords. Their only good value is using Lash while hiding in a unit, something a DP can't do.
Possessed suck. Don't even think about it. Moving on.
Chaos Dreads are kinda risky, but now that the FAQ has cleared up the LOS issue, they're slightly better. They still have a chance to do something you don't want them to 1/3 of the time though. They can be good, if you're lucky.
Chaos Terminators are the bomb. Best elites choice we have by far. Can do just about everything effectively.
Chaos Chosen have their uses, but aren't really hardcore competitive. Outflanking in a Rhino with 5 meltaguns is their best ploy. Can work if you're lucky.
Chaos Space Marines are just that. Marines. They know fear, though, which doesn't have to be a bad thing. About average on the whole scale of things. But we're not looking for average, are we?
Khorne Berzerkers are really, really good on the charge. You have to get them there though. And if you get assaulted or shot, they die just as easily as regular marines. And since they're kinda expensive, that really sucks.
Thousand Sons have one purpose only. To kill basic MEQ. Anything else will destroy them. Not for an all comers list.
Noise Marines are kinda silly. Loading them up with sonic blasters makes a very good all around unit, good at shooting and assault. The downside is that they're not the best at either, and they're expensive as crap, and die just like regular marines.
Plague Marines are the obvious competitive choice in troops for CSM. Feel no pain, T5, and 2 special weapons with just 5 of them. Makes other armies jealous.
Ignore CSM's fast attack section. They're not for serious gaming. I've heard large squads of Raptors with mark of Nurgle can make a decent assault unit though, but that would be expensive, and probably not worth it.
In your Heavy Support Slots, you really can't make any bad choices. Anything you take here will be effective. However, Obliterators are the best unit in our codex, by far. 2 Daemon Princes and 9 Obliterators is the best start to any competitive CSM army.

So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

I would agree with most of your analysis, but I would encourage you to check out Nurgle Blight Drones from Forge World. They are just Uber.
If you are allowed to play with Forge World Rules, they are a must have and absolutely help win games (especially with Lash).

UberhAxTHC wrote: So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

so if i want an army that is worth a damn this is my only real option?

Sadly enough, yeah...

Going Khorne with 2 DPs, Berzerkers in Rhinos and Terminators in Land Raiders isn't that bad either.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
PLAGUE FOR THE PLAGUE GOD!
LIES FOR THE LIES GOD!
INAPPROPRIATE STUFF FOR THE INAPPROPRIATE STUFF GOD!

It's unfortunate right now that CSM can't hang with a lot of the top lists out there, but I've found CSM to be rewarding and fun if you're willing to play hard and smart.

Personally, I love the crap out of khorne berserkers. I usually field 2 decently sized units of them and 2 small units of plague marines. I'll also run a minimum of 4 obliterators because they're fantastic.

If I do run terminators, I run them in small squads, usually 4 man squads, as clean up and heat sinks.

Daemon Princes are great, I use Lash Princes in tandem with my berserkers to make sure I get the charge, as opposed to the normal strategy of grouping units to blast with obliterators.

I also like throwing in greater daemons on occasion because they're relatively cheap for how brutal they are, and if you can coordinate your movement right, they appear where you need them.

CSM is still a good assault army, despite how outdated the codex is; but in order to really compete with them it's still just nurgle and oblits.

Chaos terminators are cheap enough to be fielded in large numbers and weather a lot of shooting, once you start dropping marks on them and upgrading their wargear, the price can go up pretty fast. I prefer MoT on terminators for the inv boost, but as CSM is pretty much my 'fun' army, I'll pull them out in games where it's not so frowned upon to say 'These Tzeench themed terminators actually have the MoS (or the MoN)'.

CSM was the first army I really got behind, and I love big fluffy undivided lists led by abbadon and a daemon prince, with all 4 marked troops, and a handful of oblits and terminators. Even though it doesn't win as often as my other armies, It's still a fun game because no matter what the mission objectives are, I pretend its a KP game and just try to demoralize my opponent with reckless aggression.

If I were taking CSM to a tournament though, it would probably be all plague marines and obliterators.

Starting CSM is probably a bad idea right now, as both lash and Warptime got hit with the nerf bat. If I had to build a list, it would be just like everyone's been saying all along.

I'd save your money and wait for the new Legions book.

Gah, I was going to start CSM soon =[ now it seems that's a terrible idea. I need some variety! My ba are getting old =[

So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

Not very ingenuine, but the truth these days.

Ya know what...I think I'm gonna do chaos anyway! I'm playing them for funzeez anyway =)
It sounds like nurgle and khorne are the only gods worth bowing down to nowadays though =[

DO NOT DISS ZE MIGHTY DEFILER!

junk wrote:It's unfortunate right now that CSM can't hang with a lot of the top lists out there, but I've found CSM to be rewarding and fun if you're willing to play hard and smart.

Personally, I love the crap out of khorne berserkers. I usually field 2 decently sized units of them and 2 small units of plague marines. I'll also run a minimum of 4 obliterators because they're fantastic.

If I do run terminators, I run them in small squads, usually 4 man squads, as clean up and heat sinks.

Daemon Princes are great, I use Lash Princes in tandem with my berserkers to make sure I get the charge, as opposed to the normal strategy of grouping units to blast with obliterators.

I also like throwing in greater daemons on occasion because they're relatively cheap for how brutal they are, and if you can coordinate your movement right, they appear where you need them.

CSM is still a good assault army, despite how outdated the codex is; but in order to really compete with them it's still just nurgle and oblits.

Chaos terminators are cheap enough to be fielded in large numbers and weather a lot of shooting, once you start dropping marks on them and upgrading their wargear, the price can go up pretty fast. I prefer MoT on terminators for the inv boost, but as CSM is pretty much my 'fun' army, I'll pull them out in games where it's not so frowned upon to say 'These Tzeench themed terminators actually have the MoS (or the MoN)'.

CSM was the first army I really got behind, and I love big fluffy undivided lists led by abbadon and a daemon prince, with all 4 marked troops, and a handful of oblits and terminators. Even though it doesn't win as often as my other armies, It's still a fun game because no matter what the mission objectives are, I pretend its a KP game and just try to demoralize my opponent with reckless aggression.

If I were taking CSM to a tournament though, it would probably be all plague marines and obliterators.

" can't hang with a lot of the top lists out there"

Actually, they do surprisingly well. I have a 50% win rate against Grey Knights; and have beaten both Draigo Wing and Purifier Spam.

Granted, I have to use Lash, Obliterators, and Plague Marines to do it; but they are still strong when you take that build. And Blight Drones make a huge difference.