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I have a particular predator in mind. In one of the AvP comics, "Smiley" (a nickname given by the humans) supervises several unblooded Yautja on a training hunt.
He easily beats multiple aliens. In the end, he even makes a trophy of the xenomorph queen: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Could he take on 40K genestealers? How many could he face at once and hope to beat?
If you think genestealers far outclass even a xenomorph queen, how many predators of his skill would it take to beat one genestealer?

b1soul wrote:I have a particular predator in mind. In one of the AvP comics, "Smiley" (a nickname given by the humans) supervises several unblooded Yautja on a training hunt.
He easily beats multiple aliens. In the end, he even makes a trophy of the xenomorph queen: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Could he take on 40K genestealers? How many could he face at once and hope to beat?
If you think genestealers far outclass even a xenomorph queen, how many predators of his skill would it take to beat one genestealer?

I'm of the opinion that genestealers are the equivalent to Xenomorph drones, predators outclass genestealers easily. It's a question of how many genestealers it takes to beat a Predator...

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
I'm of the opinion that genestealers are the equivalent to Xenomorph drones, predators outclass genestealers easily. It's a question of how many genestealers it takes to beat a Predator...

I share that opinion
However, genestealers in sufficient numbers do manage to give terminators some trouble. I'm jut not sure how many genestealers it takes to beat a terminator in the fluff. I'm pretty sure the answer is "quite a few"

It depends who gets the drop on the other. Even a lowly drone can blindside a Predator and plunge it's tail through it's gut.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:It depends who gets the drop on the other. Even a lowly drone can blindside a Predator and plunge it's tail through it's gut.

I'm talking about a face to face confrontation, not shouldercannon sniping or ambushing etc.

b1soul wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:It depends who gets the drop on the other. Even a lowly drone can blindside a Predator and plunge it's tail through it's gut.

I'm talking about a face to face confrontation, not shouldercannon sniping or ambushing etc.

Just wristblades then? Or are we allowing the full arsenal but up-close?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Just wristblades then? Or are we allowing the full arsenal but up-close?

Well, I was actually wondering how many genestealers would it take to bring down an unsurprised terminator (say, the termie is backed up against a wall and making a last stand)

For the predator, let's say the Yautja (full arsenal) is hunting half a dozen genestealers in a spacehulk (with nothing else on it)

b1soul wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Just wristblades then? Or are we allowing the full arsenal but up-close?

Well, I was actually wondering how many genestealers would it take to bring down an unsurprised terminator (say, the termie is backed up against a wall and making a last stand)

For the predator, let's say the Yautja (full arsenal) is hunting half a dozen genestealers in a spacehulk (with nothing else on it)

Predator succeeds in the hunt and brings honour to his name.

If the story of the Deathwing uncovering a genestealer cult is anything to go by, it takes a lot of 'stealers to kill them.

Q. How hard can a Predator be?
A. Very. Very. Hard. Very Hard Indeed

My money's on the Predator. And I think somewhat more highly of stealers too, methinks more in line with Alien warriors.

The Crusader wrote:Q. How hard can a Predator be?
A. Very. Very. Hard. Very Hard Indeed
My money's on the Predator. And I think somewhat more highly of stealers too, methinks more in line with Alien warriors.

I think the distinction between drones and warriors is mainly found in the video games, correct me if I'm wrong. In the novels and comics, the terms "drone" and "warrior" are used interchangeably

I believe the difference is that Warriors have a tougher carapace slightly larger and more aggressive than drones as I recall

b1soul wrote:

The Crusader wrote:Q. How hard can a Predator be?
A. Very. Very. Hard. Very Hard Indeed
My money's on the Predator. And I think somewhat more highly of stealers too, methinks more in line with Alien warriors.

I think the distinction between drones and warriors is mainly found in the video games, correct me if I'm wrong. In the novels and comics, the terms "drone" and "warrior" are used interchangeably

You are correct. In the films they mean the same thing. Unless Warriors used a different host, like the dog-born Xeno in Alien 3.

what BL stories feature a lot of genestealer action (other than Deathwing)?

It’s a big mistake to assume any correlation between the predator’s performance between aliens and their ability to compete against genestealers.

Nearly every Aliens story:

A small group of AVP marines; who make 40K PDF look like space marines with their incompetence and comparatively inferior equipment; go against hundreds of aliens (half the time its civilians instead). Think about how many aliens Ripley killed in the movie Aliens, this was the first time she ever fired a gun.

In the AVP universe it is actually common procedure for a few squads of AVP marines to enter a hive, kill 200 - 500 aliens including the queen, take the royal jelly which is sold as a high end commodity, and leave completely intact; it is when something goes wrong that the humans are actually fighting for their lives as depicted in the novels. Most of the alien stories involve some other situations that acts against the humans which makes the aliens a more exaggerated threat; evil corporations are typically the perpetrators of this situation - the aliens are even farmed by humans. Genestealer senses mean that the predator just can not hide from it. The genestealer will know where the predator is at all time just due to the predator’s powerful musk alone.

Genestealers are initiative 6, fleet, move through cover, rendering, 5+ armored, infiltrating tyrand constructs. In the fluff they almost always get first blood even against super human targets and they take a tremendous amount of firepower to drop. Whereas mobs of xenomorphs are cut down by autogun fire. All this pales next to the fact that genestealer possess a human, perhaps a super human tactical planning ability and can lower its body temperature to room temp.

Simple Comparison:
Ripley, a civilian, in a power loader an exosuit, a machine that is notably inferior in combat to standard power armor or an IG sentinel; fights an extended combat with an Alien Queen. A single genestealer in that situation would have murder Ripley before she could even hope to react tearing apart the loader as if it was nothing.

Humans kill aliens by the hundreds. In Aliens; poorly situated, (by 40K IG standards) inferiorly equipped, weak disciplined, incompetent space exterminators manage to compete with a large amount of aliens with additional threats acting against them. This is a heavily repeated story line in the Alien mythos. An imperial guard squad firing together kill about one or two genestealer as seen in the Cain series IIRC. A single AVP marine firing his rifle kills a dozen aliens. Even Pvt. “Its Game Over Man” Hudson kills a bunch in the movie Aliens.

In hand to hand, no contest genestealer. Simple biology comes to play here. Initiative 3 the speed in which a well trained human fights and reacts and likely the same speed of both the alien and predator (humans have displayed superior reaction to both in the their media movies/novels/comics); Initiative 4 is super human marine/eldar reaction time; initiative 5, Dark Eldar speed, means moving faster than human perception can process; initiative 6 likely means we only see the genestealer strike in bullet time. The predator can’t possibly react to the genestealer’s attacks. Predators that are cut down in hand to hand combat with human using swords, pipes, knives, makeshift weapons, etc don’t posses the reactive speed of the genestealer who are are able to punch through tanks.

Predator Hunters who are engaged aliens in canned hunts at a rough equality, will get murdered by the vastly superior genestealer. How a conflict would occur is predator starts its hunt against genestealer. Predator sees nothing at all, no trails, no heat signature, nothing. Suddenly he is laid out by a force moving faster then anything he could even perceive momently causing a flash of unconsciousness. Predator regains itself and finds and obvious trail which he tracks. Predator finds genestealer standing in the open and blasts at it with shoulder caster scoring several hits against the stationary target crippling an arm and charring its exoskeleton (humans have survived shoulder caster hits, and modern body armor/ primitive armor has protected target from damage). Genestealer hisses and limps towards predator receiving more hits when it closes predator thrust spear into wounded creatures neck bypassing its flak/mesh level hide causing a near decapitation. Genestealer flops over and dies, predator returns to its community with a heavily priced kill which gives him preferential mating assignment producing numerous offspring. Four generations later the predator community is overrun by a genestealer cult. The genestealer sacrificed itself to the predator once it implanted it with its taint knowing it was dooming the predator’s planet with its death.

b1soul wrote:what BL stories feature a lot of genestealer action (other than Deathwing)?

Ciaphas Cain has a few fights with Genestealers, and there are several times in the book when cain talks about how he was once attached to a terminator squad trying to clear out a space hulk, and how genestealers tore through the terminator with ease,

Genestealers seem to be a lot more lethal than Xenomorphs when they get within arms reach - their limbs are designed for tearing through tough metal.

Xenomorphs, while lethal at the same range, don't quite have the same power as Genestealers have behind their rending claws, and Genestealers are unnaturally fast, faster than a Xenomorph drone has been shown to be.

If a Genestealer got within arms reach of a Predator, I'd give the odds to the Genestealer handily. However, it takes serious numbers to get close to a Predator due to its plasma caster and plethora of other ranged weapons, so it would still take a lot to finally get one close enough.

b1soul wrote:Well, I was actually wondering how many genestealers would it take to bring down an unsurprised terminator (say, the termie is backed up against a wall and making a last stand)

It depends on how much ammo the Terminator has.

Let me start by saying I love Predator but i don't think the odds are all that good for them against Genestealers mostly due to the fact they don't come off to me as resilient or impressive when compared against 40k.

To me a pretty true spiritual equal to the predator is the Kroot, they are stronger than any man, faster than almost any able to hide in any terrain and adapt to the environment no matter what. Heck the heal fast, they have plasma technology and they are a tribal culture.... The main difference between kroot and genestealers is speed, morale and lethality.

A Kroot would be a decent fight perhaps against the genestealer till it worked itself up into a frenzy and starting drawn and quartering it's prey. It is roughly as tough as a human which is about right despite the move it didn't come off to me as tough as a space marine or ork persay.

At this point it just comes down to did the Kroot get the ability to sneak up on something that has developed the ability to hide even from people looking for it, all and all it's very unlikely that if Predator killed one he would be able to claim his trophy.

According to how the cults work, and thus I assume the brood they think of each other as family and will start to swarm the moment one of their sisters is killed. All and all I think Predator COULD do it but not without an escape route planned and a desire not to even claim his trophy. If it was a hunting pack it might be a little better but i think this would just draw more attention which isn't good against the Genestealers in the first place.

Grunt13 wrote:Nearly every Aliens story:
A small group of AVP marines; who make 40K PDF look like space marines with their incompetence and comparatively inferior equipment; go against hundreds of aliens (half the time its civilians instead). Think about how many aliens Ripley killed in the movie Aliens, this was the first time she ever fired a gun.
In the AVP universe it is actually common procedure for a few squads of AVP marines to enter a hive, kill 200 - 500 aliens including the queen, take the royal jelly which is sold as a high end commodity, and leave completely intact; it is when something goes wrong that the humans are actually fighting for their lives as depicted in the novels. Most of the alien stories involve some other situations that acts against the humans which makes the aliens a more exaggerated threat; evil corporations are typically the perpetrators of this situation - the aliens are even farmed by humans.

You're telling half-truths without citing any sources. I'd appreciate more honesty in a debate.

In Aliens, most of the alien deaths were caused by the thermonuclear explosion in the end...
The Colonial Marines did not gun down hundreds of aliens. Neither were they incompetent compared to IG. They had a young Lieutenant with no combat experience directing them. Everyone else was competent (though Hudson was prone to panic).

In the EU (mainly Genocide), royal jelly is collected, but the cost in human life is high. The most efficient way of doing so is to bombard the aliens from a spaceship. Once a certain area is clear, the ship sets down and sets up a large energy field that keeps the xenomorphs walled out. This "safe area" is expanded by artillery shelling. While the ship's big guns bombard the aliens, squads of marines equipped with full body armor (coated with acid-resistant gel) and armed with heavy weapons push the aliens back.
It's not standard procedure. Standard procedure is sending in unarmored, regularly armed marines who get massacred.

A single genestealer in that situation would have murder Ripley.

Your argument is a mess and doesn't make sense on multiple levels
1) Fighting a powerloader exosuit is nothing like fighting a predator.
You say we shouldn't use performance against xenomorphs to determine performance against genestealers...but you're trying to use performance against a power loader to determine performance against a predator???
2) A Genestealer would benefit from its much smaller size in that situation. A Genestealer would be much harder to grab than the huge queen.
3) The EU queens are nothing like the queen in Aliens. The queen in the first AvP film is a more accurate representation. Thanks to CGI, that queen was much more agile and quick than the queen in Aliens.

Humans kill aliens by the hundreds.

Again, the marines in the movie did not gun down "hundreds" of aliens

A single AVP marine firing his rifle kills a dozen aliens.

More made up numbers you fail to cite

In Aliens; poorly situated, (by 40K IG standards) inferiorly equipped, weak disciplined, incompetent space exterminators manage to compete with a large amount of aliens with additional threats acting against them.

No...they have motion trackers, smart guns, automated sentry guns, flamethrowers, grenades, APCs, and pulse rifles. Pulse rifles fire 10mm explosive-tipped standard light-armor piercing caseless rounds...

Predator sees nothing at all, no trails, no heat signature, nothing.

Weird, aliens have no heat signature but predators see them just fine...

Suddenly he is laid out by a force moving faster then anything he could even perceive

I don't think you have any grasp of how fast the predators are in the EU. You should probably also read the OP. The predator in this thread is a specific predator in the EU. His skill level is above average to say the least...

(humans have survived shoulder caster hits, and modern body armor/ primitive armor has protected target from damage).

LOL...really? You know that a shoulder cannon's power setting can be adjusted, right?
This is what a shoulder cannon is able to do when the predator doesn't want to mess around...
1
2, 3
4, 5, 6
Yes a human would survive that...NOT

b1soul wrote:

Grunt13 wrote:Nearly every Aliens story:
A small group of AVP marines; who make 40K PDF look like space marines with their incompetence and comparatively inferior equipment; go against hundreds of aliens (half the time its civilians instead). Think about how many aliens Ripley killed in the movie Aliens, this was the first time she ever fired a gun.
In the AVP universe it is actually common procedure for a few squads of AVP marines to enter a hive, kill 200 - 500 aliens including the queen, take the royal jelly which is sold as a high end commodity, and leave completely intact; it is when something goes wrong that the humans are actually fighting for their lives as depicted in the novels. Most of the alien stories involve some other situations that acts against the humans which makes the aliens a more exaggerated threat; evil corporations are typically the perpetrators of this situation - the aliens are even farmed by humans.

You're telling half-truths without citing any sources. I'd appreciate more honesty in a debate.

In Aliens, most of the alien deaths were caused by the thermonuclear explosion in the end...
The Colonial Marines did not gun down hundreds of aliens. Neither were they incompetent compared to IG. They had a young Lieutenant with no combat experience directing them. Everyone else was competent (though Hudson was prone to panic).

In the EU (mainly Genocide), royal jelly is collected, but the cost in human life is high. The most efficient way of doing so is to bombard the aliens from a spaceship. Once a certain area is clear, the ship sets down and sets up a large energy field that keeps the xenomorphs walled out. This "safe area" is expanded by artillery shelling. While the ship's big guns bombard the aliens, squads of marines equipped with full body armor (coated with acid-resistant gel) and armed with heavy weapons push the aliens back.
It's not standard procedure. Standard procedure is sending in unarmored, regularly armed marines who get massacred.

A single genestealer in that situation would have murder Ripley.

Your argument is a mess and doesn't make sense on multiple levels
1) Fighting a powerloader exosuit is nothing like fighting a predator.
You say we shouldn't use performance against xenomorphs to determine performance against genestealers...but you're trying to use performance against a power loader to determine performance against a predator???
2) A Genestealer would benefit from its much smaller size in that situation. A Genestealer would be much harder to grab than the huge queen.
3) The EU queens are nothing like the queen in Aliens. The queen in the first AvP film is a more accurate representation. Thanks to CGI, that queen was much more agile and quick than the queen in Aliens.

Humans kill aliens by the hundreds.

Again, the marines in the movie did not gun down "hundreds" of aliens

A single AVP marine firing his rifle kills a dozen aliens.

More made up numbers you fail to cite

In Aliens; poorly situated, (by 40K IG standards) inferiorly equipped, weak disciplined, incompetent space exterminators manage to compete with a large amount of aliens with additional threats acting against them.

No...they have motion trackers, smart guns, automated sentry guns, flamethrowers, grenades, APCs, and pulse rifles. Pulse rifles fire 10mm explosive-tipped standard light-armor piercing caseless rounds...

Predator sees nothing at all, no trails, no heat signature, nothing.

Weird, aliens have no heat signature but predators see them just fine...

Suddenly he is laid out by a force moving faster then anything he could even perceive

I don't think you have any grasp of how fast the predators are in the EU. You should probably also read the OP. The predator in this thread is a specific predator in the EU. His skill level is above average to say the least...

(humans have survived shoulder caster hits, and modern body armor/ primitive armor has protected target from damage).

LOL...really? You know that a shoulder cannon's power setting can be adjusted, right?
This is what a shoulder cannon is able to do when the predator doesn't want to mess around...
1
2, 3
4, 5, 6
Yes a human would survive that...NOT

agreed on all points, I think tech is the predators largest and perhaps only saving grace however.

Also to the poster who said faster than anything they would perceive? Not likely the human eye can track jets going super sonic and i would give testament to the predator's ability to track them that is more or less his thing... you aren't going to be able to hide from the predator unless you happen to find a small oversight in his vision like the original Predator... if you see the sequel they tried that and ... well it didn't work he swapped out to a vibration vision mode and detected his heart beat. All it would take is the predator knowing his prey to having tracking skills... now if his prey were to lead him into a trap because genestealers are by no means stupid... that is a different story.

Try to make your points more coherent like B1soul is please, all you are doing is simply trying to make the genestealer seem amazing without evidence to support your claim.

For me personally I have always put your Aliens warrior on par with gaunts. Weak, heavy in number, unintelligent. Now keep in mind I hated the AVP comics because I love aliens and thought that entire series came across as a predator fans fan fiction.

There is nothing in the aliens universe that in my mind compares to that of a genestealer. But I think the real question that needs to be asked is this.

Is the predator in cover? If so I pity that grenade-less stealer.

We really need to come up with Hunter rules

IcedAnimals, what about the Predalien? they seem Uber-hard. And in the game it was a real F**ker to kill

hmm I guess a predalien would be about what I put a genestealer as. They skipped my mind completely.

In answer of the OP. I would put a single pred vs a single genestealer to be slightly in the preds favor. Add a second one and it allows the genestealer to create more elaborate traps.

I picture a "clever girl" moment here.

Genestealers and Xenomorphs are the same thing. One is a complete rip off of the other. The 80's were awesome.

Predators would call the Genestealers "Hard Flesh" and laugh at the 5 tiny armor plates protecting a Genestealers skull.

The question isn't who would win.

The question is what weapons a Predator would be restricted from using against Genestealers to make it a worthwhile challenge.

Predators hunt and kill things. Genestealers steal genes.

First weaponry:
Pulse Rifle Evidence:
http://www.planetavp.com/features/articles/kupari-1.shtml
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/M41_Pulse_Rifle
see first image

b1soul is attempting to imply the pulse rifle is an upper level firearm with its exploding ammo trumping the humble 40K lasgun. The lasgun is depicted as significantly superior to 40K’s solid shot autogun which much better represents the AVP pulse rifle. This is likely to give the impression that when the pulse rifle achieves the same results as predator firearms it is because they are both very powerful guns well over the norm. The image shows Big Mamma the super predator from Deadliest of Species taking a pulse round to the shoulder, the path of the round shows a clear entrance and exit wound, no explosion. Big Mamma is shot in the other shoulder with a pistol with similar effect and nearly dies from her injuries. Also in the same series humans take fire from the pulse rifle; one round hits a Marine square in the torso, but the armor completely stops the round from inflicting lasting injury. Same series shows aliens getting cut down by pulse rifle. Another account has the a human hit in the arm with a pulse round causing a flesh wound, not an amputation. And in the Duel and War AVP series armored predators are shredder by the same pulse rifle fire, in predator cold war they are cut down by M16 fire. There are dozen of pictures across multiple comics of pulse rifle having clear entrance and exit paths on the aliens. The links compare the weapon to the AK 47s and M16 of modern warfare not bolters or other 40K super weapons that reduce human targets to a red mist. Deadliest of Species shows mix weaponry used in combat situations; pulse and predator shoulder caster being using on the aliens with similar almost indistinguishable results. Because it disrupts the circular argument of predators are super tough because they can kill aliens and aliens are super tough because they are killing predators. When a human weapon with modern day comparison is introduced and functions with the same lethality as predator weaponry it drags the predators and aliens to a grounded level well away from the shuriken catapults, bolters, and tau pulse rifles found in 40K.

Some Sources:
AVP DUEL
AVP WAR
Aliens Labyrinth
Aliens Book 2
Aliens Rouge
Aliens Music of the Spears
Alien Berserker
Aliens Stronghold
Aliens Genocide Novel
AVP War
AVP Duel

In book 2, Music of the spears, rouge, stronghold plus a bunch more novels and comics capture aliens are experimented on, modified, even controlled to some degree by humans - aliens are lab rats in cages as I stated. The are farmed animals producing an output of eggs in Stronghold, and they would have stayed that way if they were not intentionally released by the human villain. In music of the spears ninjas go up against aliens with swords suffering causalities due to their blood which they rectify by focusing on limb removal instead of head strikes. The ninjas manage to steal an egg from the aliens killing those aliens guarding it.

In Aliens Genocide the novel; the crew recruited are experienced alien killers. The female commander is plagued by guilt over a crewman who died under her last mission to exterminate a hive. The aliens concealed a warrior in a flesh pod who killed the trooper when he started poking it - this was an exception to normal procedure where hives were exterminated without lost. These crew had no problem wiping out hives the old fashion way proven by their repeated successful actions. Labyrinth and Berserker also establish characters who are experienced at killing aliens to the point it becomes basic pest removal - this is revealed through dialog ‘I couldn’t even begin to estimate how many bugs I killed over the years’ - to paraphrase a bug veteran. In berserker, an exo-suit is used to wipe out alien infestations by itself. A small crew goes from outbreak to outbreak wiping out whole hives with what is basically a single crisis suit (picture 2). Numerous other media suggests outright that alien killing is routine for these crews. The majority of the books revolve around a major snag that upsets the status quo which cause the otherwise managed aliens to be a severe problem like I stated before. We don’t see these typical encounters because they are relatively boring but many alien books have an established notion that these vets oversaw numerous conflicts with aliens with out major issue.

Combat Speed Examples:
There are numerous mentions in the fluff where high initiative is stated as being perform faster then human perception. WD dark eldar article, stated that the foot troops covered ground faster than IG could react to them, that they dodge gunfire, and kicked tossed grenades back at troops. WD article, Saim-Hann Autarch tells humans to leave planet, human war chief says no, Autarch draws sword, beheads chief, re-sheaths sword; action occurs faster than human perception, human warriors don’t see strike (Initiative 6 Autarch). This “I move faster than you can see” ability is also given to space marines in some fluff; it is repetitively displayed in Blood Gorgons; one occasion had a marine whip out his bolter and kill five enemy targets before his human companions could register him drawing his firearm. The human eye is unable to process the movement of a humming birds wings as a series of movements just a blur, just like the fluff says certain high initiative attacks are beyond human ability to perceive them (death cultist assassins, high end tyranids, eldar).

Genestealers are regard as a match for space marines in much of the fluff. Space wolves 2nd Codex IIRC; character bests a genestealer in hand to hand combat which was portrayed as a major accomplishment - also the premiss behind Space Hulk is that that Space Marine Terminators are necessary to clear a genestealer hulk. Plus the severe losses suffered by the Salamanders in wiping out the genestealer moon are a pretty big indicator of the threat level they possess in 40K. Genestealer abilities are fairly known in this community - destroying heavy targets, killing marines in combat, tearing apart tanks and walkers, using tactics against opponents, etc - their stats and abilities are another major indicated of their prowess. Where is the evidence that predators or aliens even come close to them? Why is the examples that contradicts unsupported claims being examined with severe scrutiny while the claims themselves are accepted without evidence? Human solid ammo autoguns destroy aliens just as well as predator weapons - if anything they are more powerful.

I gave sources for my statements, now how about some justification on the predator advocates’ part. Note that it can’t be rational accepted that predators and aliens are capable of matching the feats displayed in 40K without some form of evidence. Instead of going through what others have stated saying that does count, that is only half true, and so on - where is the evidence that a predator can last two seconds against one of the most capable assassin in 40K when Danny Glover (plus a dozen known humans) are able to go toe to toe with one of them an walk away the victor? The burden of proof is on you to explain the reasons why a predator could have any reasonably hope of surviving a 40K scale opponent when they are commonly depicted as being killed by normal humans; Predator 1 and 2, Predators, all show normal humans killing predators in straight up fights. Duel shows the fore mention AVP marines killing predators on an outright war setting. Are we then to conclude the the marines in the AVP universe are super warriors because of their ability to kill both predators and aliens?

Shoulder Cannon: Where is it stated that the predators are able to adjust their cannon strength to deal with tougher targets? There are numerous examples of the cannon operating around the ability of M16s in terms of damage (humans taking hits and living, body armor stopping the hit). Where in the media does the predator flip a switch and start blowing up tanks or battle suits? Bare in mind that pulse rifles and M16s are completely capable of cutting a living target in half, destroying light vehicles, as well as mowing down predators (Cold War, Duel, War). This may also cause a concern about predator intelligence as they are often using the low setting against formable targets which leads to their demise. Also on the subject of other predator weaponry where do predators show that their blades are more damaging than a chain sword or an eldar wych weapon with a molecule sharp edge, where is it that the predator disk is better at multiple kills than a lasgun on full auto?
Predator and Aliens stats and abilities: Where is it demonstrated that Aliens and Predators are notable superior to humans that would justify them being given stats above 3? There are numerous sources suggesting that they are only marginally superior to humans in direct confrontation and much of of that is due to their increase mass. At what time does one of them pick up a car, absorb direct rifle fire like an ork would, or demonstrate a characteristic that is beyond human ability? (Picture 3) Note that Catachans are death world augmented humans who are given the same stats as IG despite their superior strength and toughness compared to normal humans.
To clarify the two above points, at what time do predators or aliens do something that a fit, well armed, human combatant is completely incapable of doing. Kroot and orks are 7 foot tall, 400 plus pound monsters. Kroot are toughness 3 with a very thought out fluff explanation for their strength of 4 due to unique muscle systems and wargear, and orks are strength 3 with a very good explanation for their toughness of 4. Based on what we know about kroot and orks, how can it be said predators merit an inflated assessment in a combat situation?
4) Predator Honor Contradiction: Predator honor demands that they hunt worthy prey. Numerous times throughout human history in the AVP universe predators have selected a human to fight in honorably battle. If these humans were not reasonably capable of defeating the predator the predator would be unable to select them as a target. Predators have singled out samurai, pirates, zulu warriors, army men, etc as a worthy opponents meaning these individuals have to have a somewhat decent chance of defeating the predator by their own code. If humans were not suitably opponents for the predator then predators would not be able to hunt them honorably - the predators are setting their own gauge at human levels. How can predators be charted as a genestealer level combatant and honorably hunt humans?

I-am-a-spoon wrote these rules with a general consensus that they are being given unmerited stats and equipment for competitive game play:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421245.page

Please don't attach non wargaming images to Dakka.

Reds8n

Grunt13

In reference to the Plasma Caster, think about story lines. Predator 2 would have been a considerably shorter film had the Crew shown Its full potential now wouldn't it? Also Space Hulk would also be pretty OP'd if we use the standard game mechanics as well. And as a general rule, Fluff stated 3ed's ago and has been bypassed by now I would consider less than canon.

Also note that this thread is about a Predator that has cut his way through a Xenomorph hive, then having the strength and skill to kill the Queen. Methinks that he can take a couple of stealers.

The Crusader wrote:Grunt13

In reference to the Plasma Caster, think about story lines. Predator 2 would have been a considerably shorter film had the Crew shown Its full potential now wouldn't it? Also Space Hulk would also be pretty OP'd if we use the standard game mechanics as well. And as a general rule, Fluff stated 3ed's ago and has been bypassed by now I would consider less than canon.

Also note that this thread is about a Predator that has cut his way through a Xenomorph hive, then having the strength and skill to kill the Queen. Methinks that he can take a couple of stealers.

Hmmm sorry, i still think the nids are a far worst threat than you are giving them credit. I mean an ork can survive decapitation, has skin thick and concrete and stronger than an 8 foot tall giant in close combat surrounded in power armor.... and he is only 6 points the genestealers wipe out entire mobz of boyz like they are nothing unless the boyz are clever (i've seriously had 3 genestealers kill 12 orks like they were nothing and don't get me started on the RPG)

Predator is cool but in my mind he just doesn't have the fire power in any incarnation to do the job correctly to take on a few genestealers without serious injury or death (most likely) though i could imagaine the self destruct getting them

Predator is cool but in my mind he just doesn't have the fire power in any incarnation to do the job correctly to take on a few genestealers without serious injury or death (most likely) though i could imagaine the self destruct getting them

The Aliens VS Predator novels had Predators who wore a cannon on each sholder and carried massive cannons in their hands that destroyed city blocks in a single shot.

I haven't read any comics or played any games. I have seen all the films and read a few books.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Predators just hunters? I thought that they restricted themselves to specific gear depending on what they intend to hunt.

The books made it seem as if the Xenomorphs were petty. All that mattered was finding the queen because her head was the prize.

The drones numbered in the thousands and there were only 3 or 5 predators. The preds were doing fine, blasting hundreds of drones with each shot.

It wasn't until distractions like humans and hybrids got involved that they lost control of the situation.

A pred is barely stronger and tougher then a human. Has no armor worth mentioning. And his plasma gun isnt all that impresive. A guardsman would be a match for him. Seeing as how in the fluff flak armor can stop a .50 cal round with ease. And autogun rounds. Something that slices through preds. Guardsman have auspexes which are sensors that can detect hidden enemies. Not to mention pred active camo sucks. It doesnt hide movement, and leaves a blurry outline.

Seeing as how stealers are more then a match for a guardsmen. Stealers win. So its game over for the pred.

The burden of proof falls upon those making unsupported claims not the ones pointing out that predators fall way below their stated portrayal. If someone claims predators can perform unassisted flight and shoot lasers out of their eyes, it not necessary for the opposition to prove they can’t, its the claimers job to prove predators can.

Predators have a basic equilibrium with the AVP human marines in warfare situations (Deadliest of Species, Duel, World War 3) - predator communities have even been exterminated by humans in the AVP universe. Humans with autoguns are able to engage the predator clans in open warfare and give a fair account of themselves. There even exist a number of humans with multiple predator kills up to the point were they are predator hunters killing the predators in honorable combat again and again and again. Also a single human IIRC Mondo was credited with wiping out a whole hive single handedly. There can be a story about a single ratling wiping out an entire predator society this doesn’t tell us how directly capably a ratling is in a combat situation. This is more about actually ability, how much can a predator bench press? Can they survive a point blank bolt round to the face, can they punch the head off a grizzly bear, when you stick a sword through their gut or a lead pipe through their throat do they laugh at you or fall over and die? What happens when their plasma caster hits a rock wall, does in blast through it or deflect like a 9mm round; does it shoot through body armor or does mesh armor protect against the shot? If a human hits a predator with a baseball bat does it keel over or shrug it off?