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This is a list that I am working on for some tournaments in the upcoming months:

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150

Elite:

Techmarine, nemesis warding stave, rad grenades, psycotroke grenades - 140

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband, 7x death cult assassin, 4x crusader - 165
Razorback, twin-linked assault cannon, psybolt ammunition - 85

Troops:

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Fast Attack

Stormraven Gunship, twin-linked multi-melta, twin-linked lascannons, extra armour - 220

HS:

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Crowe rides in the henchmens razorback. The henchmen and the techmarine ride in the stormraven. This list seems very competitive, and I am very interested in your thoughts. Please let me know what you think, and what I might can change to make the list better. Thanks.

You have to have an inquisitor in your army to take a henchman squad. I would drop the techmarine in this army for one. You can still get the grenades from an inquisitor but you will lose the bolster defenses.

Crowe can not ride with the henchmen he is not a independant character

Thanks for pointing out that I need an inquisitor. I don't know how I missed that. Here is the list affter trading an ordo xenos inquisitor for the techmarine:

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, power armour, rad grenades, psycotroke grenades, psyker (mastery level 1) hammerhand, force sword - 93

Elite:

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband, 7x death cult assassin, 4x crusader - 165
Razorback, twin-linked assault cannon, psybolt ammunition - 85

Troops:

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, nemesis daemon hammer - 145
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Fast Attack:

Stormraven Gunship, twin-linked multi-melta, twin-linked lascannons, extra armour - 220

HS:

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Total: 1703

Having made the change, I am left with 47 points. Does anyone have an effective way that I can use those points. When I looked through the book briefly, I couldn't find anything that stood out to me.

@Mikster - Crowe is riding in the razorback that was bought with the henchmen. The henchmen and the ordo xenos inquisitor are riding in the stormraven. I apologize if I didn't make that clear.

I appreciate the comments. Keep them coming.

how about hunter killer missiles on those razorbacks? Give you some additional first turn anti armor.

halberds on all the purifers that don't have a psycannon.

That is a must, 2 points for I6 attack

I second that you should buy the halberds, although I may be biased because of the way I kit out my purifiers.

Another point to consider is that although the DCA and Crusaders look good on paper, what is going to happen is that they will hit a unit hard, and then next turn be open to shooting.

If you are dead set on using them I say go for it, but as time goes on they will reveal that they aren't near as good as more purifiers would be.

Purifiers are the all arounders; they are great for horde, excellent shooters and can stand up to most dedicated assault units in the game, they can also stand up against fire much better than your henchman squad.

I think 2 HQ's is not really required, and if you're taking crowe you might as well get full use out of him, because crowe kind of sucks, "crowe tax" is an accurate representation of what he is.

Hear is what I would propose.

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150

Troops:

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2xhalberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2xhalberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, HK missile - 60

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2x halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 7x halberd, 1x Daemonhammer 279
Razorback, twin-link assault cannon, psybolt 85

Fast Attack:

Stormraven Gunship, twin-linked multi-melta, twin-linked lascannons, extra armour - 220

HS:

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Total: 1746

This would increase the number of resilient bodies and shooting. It would also allow for crowe to still take the razorback from the 10 man purifier squad and then you put them in the stormraven.

This is all just a suggestion, if you want to keep the henchmen go ahead, this is just an alternative list I think would be more effective in a tournament setting.

I really appreciate all of the responses.

@Marthike - I agree that halberds on the purifiers is a good call. I can't believe I missed it. .

If I gave them the halberds then I would then be left with 35 points. I could use that to upgrade one of the razorbacks to have a twin-linked assault cannon.

@Countdeath - It was my understanding that death cult assassins and crusaders were the competitive choice. Are you saying that they will just kill whatever it is that they are charging. If so, isn't that what we want them to do in the first place. It is not that I am against taking them out, but that I thought that they are the unit that is used to beat things like thunderwolves or bloodcrushers. Without them, the deathstar units seem very difficult to deal with. This may not actually be the case, as I have not played without the assassins yet.

I am very interested in the all purifiers list. If I were to do it, it would probably look something like this:

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150

Troops:

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2xhalberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2xhalberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition - 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2x halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2x halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2x halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, 50

Purifier Squad, 2x psycannon, 2x halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - 149
Razorback, psybolt ammunition, 50

HS:

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Dreadnought, 2x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammunition - 135

Total: 1749

One of the six purifier squads would have to give their transport to Crowe. They could just hold your home objective or stand in cover and shoot. Whatever the mission called for. Let me know what you think about this and about the other list.

Overall, it's really up to you sephiroth. Like I stated before, the DCA are hard to use effectively. There stats look better on paper then they are in game from my experience and other GK players I know.

In a vacuum, DCA have the potential to be extremely devastating, but if you were to have a deathstar made out of them, most competent generals will see that they never make it into combat.

You are worried about Thunderwolves and Bloodcrushers?

Bloodcrushers against most GK lists never have a good time from my experience, although I generally have a squad of interceptors or GKSS. They are never able to hit my lines before they are torn apart by the impressive 24" fire that GK has to offer. In your case, warpquake isn't a necessity if you plan to put them in vehicles. Daemons generally have a very hard time playing against an all mech list. First turn they have to take shooting regardless, IF they deepstrike well and are close enough second turn is spent popping open the vehicles, IF they are still alive after 3rd turn (after being massacred by psycannon, stormbolter fire) then they might get the charge). You do not need DCAs to deal with bloodcrushers; the few that manage to make it into combat, purifiers have the ability to destroy them with the proper equipment, i.e halberds and hammerhand.

Thunderwolves are, in my opinion, a juicy target for your force weapons. Although they are T5, you are likely to strike first with halberds. The tricky part in comparison to daemons is the high probablity that the SW player with have a rune priest. If you manage to get your force weapons off you will do fine against Thunderwolves with purifers. Again this is the few that manage to make it there. Thunderwolves aren't cheap and if you are to equip a Thunderwolf with just a SS I believe that is 80 points... a lot more to get that inv. save.

Your list with the 6 purifier squads is a basic cookie cutter competitive list for "Crowe spam". Not saying it's not good, it's just not original by any stretch. It would fair well against many lists.

If you want to include DCAs by all means do it, I just don't think they offer near as much flexibility as other troops; and they are by no means necessary to deal with hard units.

I see your point about the death cults versus the purifiers. It seems that the purifiers are very capable of dealing with death star units. (Through shooting and force weapons) I think that the list without the death cults is better. It does not rely on them and has a great deal of redundancy. I think that I will head in the Crowe/purifier spam direction. What might you suggest to make it less cookie cutter and/or better. I am building the list for tournament play, so I don't really mind the spam. I am more interested in making the list better.

This>> list just won conflict gt; razrspam
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Conflict-GT-2012-Over-Winner-Andrew-Gonyo-Grey-Knights.pdf

sephiroth00055 wrote:I see your point about the death cults versus the purifiers. It seems that the purifiers are very capable of dealing with death star units. (Through shooting and force weapons) I think that the list without the death cults is better. It does not rely on them and has a great deal of redundancy. I think that I will head in the Crowe/purifier spam direction. What might you suggest to make it less cookie cutter and/or better. I am building the list for tournament play, so I don't really mind the spam. I am more interested in making the list better.

If you want to use your assassin, its fine but you have to realise that everything is gonna shoot at them, or ignore them because you can kill 1 unit and 1 unit only before his whole army shoots at you.

They will be singled out depending on what your opponent have, say their orks, they probably fear your purifers more than the assassins. Also if your fighting an elite CC unit then they will fear them and will do anything to shoot them down.

If you look at that list that won the tournament.

Its a pretty cool, take on razorspam.

sephiroth00055 wrote:I see your point about the death cults versus the purifiers. It seems that the purifiers are very capable of dealing with death star units. (Through shooting and force weapons) I think that the list without the death cults is better. It does not rely on them and has a great deal of redundancy. I think that I will head in the Crowe/purifier spam direction. What might you suggest to make it less cookie cutter and/or better. I am building the list for tournament play, so I don't really mind the spam. I am more interested in making the list better.

While its true welcome to cookie cutter internet list, I would also point out it doesnt matter if a entire army turns round and shoots them, it simply means they are not shooting at the rest of the list, your talking about a 150pts unit, that could easily earn double its point back in a turn and then save your enemy concentrating on more important units, its not a scoring unit so why do you care?

It's quite easy to take out that 150 point unit. They have miserable saves and extremely low toughness.

I play with daemonettes quite frequently and I've played with DCA before as well but I don't anymore.

The humble lasgun is able to make a mockery of DCA. An "entire army" is never going to turn around and shoot them; because they will die long before that would be necessary. It will likely take a unit to destroy the transport and one unit to kill the henchmen with shooting.

I'm not saying that DCA are utter garbage, but they are really easy to kill and are not versatile at all. The best henchmen squads are the ones meant to shoot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess I should get back to the OP. Don't worry about making the list too original. If this is for anything slightly competitive, the best lists have essentially been discovered already for the current meta.

The list with a stormraven is essentially a small "twist" that separates it slightly from your usual razor/dread spam.

Personally, I have never played a complete spam list and tend to do fine even in tournaments. My usual lists contain termies, strikes, purifers, and if room allows it then I will field interceptors.

A diverse grey knight list is the best TAC list IMO. The purifiers/dread spam is great against most armies but it can suffer against a few; taking DCAs will not make it any better.

As you stated before you are mostly focused on making the list better. Stick with the purifier spam/dreads... that is tried and true; it has already been proven to be extremely competitive. There is no reason for you make it less cookie cutter if you don't want to. Go purifers,razor and dread spam. I guarantee you will be able to stand against most armies and dominate others. For example Dark Eldar is generally a tough match up for GK; paladins and terminators get eaten up by their dark lances and venoms. Since you are meched up and good range you will likely bury most DE lists with ease, you should also be able to crush almost all Eldar lists and most ork lists.

Keep it for competitive play, it will do well.

CountDeath wrote:It's quite easy to take out that 150 point unit. They have miserable saves and extremely low toughness.

I play with daemonettes quite frequently and I've played with DCA before as well but I don't anymore.

The humble lasgun is able to make a mockery of DCA. An "entire army" is never going to turn around and shoot them; because they will die long before that would be necessary. It will likely take a unit to destroy the transport and one unit to kill the henchmen with shooting.

I'm not saying that DCA are utter garbage, but they are really easy to kill and are not versatile at all. The best henchmen squads are the ones meant to shoot.

A unit to destroy the Raven? what unit? what army? I know its not the super death star machine of death but I think your down playing the cover save abit, anything strength 8 is still only a 50% chance to chance, 33% chance to pen and then you ignore half of those, if you opponent then he is going to need a 6 to take it out, it can go down to a single unit but I doubt it unless we are talking about something like longfangs, whats he need a extra shooting unit for anyways? he has 3 riflemen, 3 purifiers with razor backs and then the stormraven, personally I think he has the shooting covered nicely.

Personally not a massive fan of the stormraven unless you have psychic communion to get it on the table more reliably if you end up going 2nd.

If this is for a tournament then your 6 razor squad bore fest is probably going to work the best but if you wanted to keep some flavour with the DCA in a storm raven, then you could free up more points by dropping the razors to rhinos (so the psycannons can shoot out). Crowes Razor could just be a regular HB razor with psyammo. That would be 65 points right there - add that to your 47 and you have 112. Take out the inquisitor and take Coteaz (might as well for the 7 points difference) instead who is great if only for Sanctuary which your DCA squad may benefit from. You'll then still have 105 points left to spend, which is enough for another henchmen squad - drop Crowe from the Razor and change that to a Rhino to save an extra 10 points and gain two firing points for a couple of melta dudes or whatever you want. Then you'd have 5 scoring units and the list would have a bit more flavour.

I wasn't really talking about the Stormraven... I was talking about the DCA. The DCA as I stated before, and I talk from personal experience aren't required to make this list competitive. I have no idea what you are trying to defend.

He is running a Crowe list, he wants it to be competitive and I have stated to the OP what IS competitive for Crowe.

The extra purifiers are not JUST for shooting? How you figure that is their only role is beyond me. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that overall purifiers are much more versatile than DCA ever will be.

I also don't understand why, after the OP liked my suggestions, you run them down? I was not talking about the cover save of the raven after moving flat out either, I was talking about the DCA as a unit.

DCA have lots of glaring holes.
1. no shooting
2. no grenades
3. poor save
4. 1 wound
5. Need transport

What do they bring? Lots of cc attacks

Purifiers
weakness
1. Not exceptionaly durable vs other cc dedicated squads with only an armor save
2. tend to have small numbers
3. lose nfw if they take a psycanon
4. Perils due to always taking tests

In games vs nids now that SitW was changed small squads can be quickly overrun by the vast size of gaunt squads. They do not have extra wounds to absorb a lot of extra fire from stuff like lootas, Heavy weapons teams etc. Shooting is very important for their surival as they can be overwhelmed in cc due to low number of returned attacks. Also with the huge number of psy defense you can count on cf to be the saving day vs this. You are still a +3 marine so you cant assume you can run head long and take anything.

What you say is true for the most part Draigo, but I still believe that the purifiers "weakness" is saved by the fact that they are still able to do everything decently. They are comparable to grey hunters in that sense, but cost more; their increased cost is reflected in their ability to handle hordes better (cleansing flame), compete better with dedicated assualt troops (force weapons) and their ability to do what grey knights do best, and that is massacre things within 24". Point for point grey hunters may be slightly better, but thats because I still think that they are grossly undercosted. On paper DCA are clearly better in CC for their points cost against most dedicated assault units, but that is all they can really do. Like Draigo says, you can't expect to just charge in against anything you are a 3+ marine, well the same goes for DCA; you can't regularly expect them to always get into combat with their required target, or any target at all. For the OP's Crowe list, they function better and provide more synergy. Lastly, that 3+ is often taken for granted by marine players.

Im not saying purifiers are not good because I believe they are but I think to play them well you have to acknowledge their weaknesses. I have seen many times people at the store charge them head long into bad situation because the forums said they were great vs hordes but then their limited attacks and a bad showing of cf no their squad is dead. I play both crowe and draigo so Im not just doing a bashing but sayin yes theyre good but be mindful.

CountDeath wrote:I wasn't really talking about the Stormraven... I was talking about the DCA. The DCA as I stated before, and I talk from personal experience aren't required to make this list competitive. I have no idea what you are trying to defend.

He is running a Crowe list, he wants it to be competitive and I have stated to the OP what IS competitive for Crowe.

The extra purifiers are not JUST for shooting? How you figure that is their only role is beyond me. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that overall purifiers are much more versatile than DCA ever will be.

I also don't understand why, after the OP liked my suggestions, you run them down? I was not talking about the cover save of the raven after moving flat out either, I was talking about the DCA as a unit.

I am aware you are talking about DCA but your whole train of thought start at taking down the transport with a unit which then allows you to turn round and kill them with a single unit, turning round and shooting them with a unit is irrelevant if the transport being used is far harder to take out than you suggest in your post, thing is nothing in book is terrible in comparison to other books, you don't need to take the list you suggested to be competitive with Grey knights, yes some choices are obviously better but most of them are still good, Purifiers make things look worse than they are because of how underpriced the weapon upgrades are and CF.

Purifiers just extra shooting? what are you talking about? that is not what I said, I listed stuff that provided shooting and said he had plenty, I said nothing about combat abilities or lack off

Why run them down, go read one of the many GK lists posted over the internet, I play Grey Knights and I don't use Purifiers in my lists and I still win 90% of games, these kind of lists just make playing against Grey Knights even more unpleasant

Personally I would rather have list built around a Grandmaster rather than crowe, then again I like what grand strategy adds to the army.

I am thinking that there are now two potential lists that I am interested in. They both are fairly similar in models, but are two very different armies in play style. I am considering Crowe/Purifier spam or Coteaz/Henchmen spam. Of the two lists I like the purifier one better, but that is simply because purifiers are my favorite unit in the book. I am now interested in comparing the two lists and seeing which one is better on paper and on table. I will be looking into both styles of list. Let me know what you all think of the two lists.

I appreciate everyone's opinions and help. I am pretty sold on the purifier spam list. That is what I will likely be building for the next couple of months. Thanks, again for all the help.