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A few of the current ork builds.

Kanwall: Sad times. Kans are nerfed badly with their low EV and only a 5+ to save them from those easy hits.

(Edit: though kans get a speed boost and are not wrecked when immobilised. Credits due, Lambmouse42.)

Green Tide: Seems pretty solid. The movement factor counters any dis-advantages that static gun line has, sech as, the threat of flankers, low EV, rubbish covers, etc.I'm sure the likes of gravity mines or the like are going to be a bit hard on us, but I suppose most of our enemies are going to be hit hard by strats, I.E., night raid.

Taking into consideration WAAAGH! rule with fleet. This might become the new kanwall.

(Edit: speed boost and fleet is making this list look actually rather scary. Plus with burnas, and with Lebiolizard2s point about the transports, things could get pretty hot, eh?)

Brigade: Might need some advice on that. AV12 side armour sounds a bit dodgy for flanking lascannons and with no defensive fire from sluggas, strikers could be getting in quite easily. Hmm. Overall they have a few similar problems to kanwall.

(Edit: Easier to hit. Orks can't fire out if moving at a fast speed. Though, Jidmahs point on tanks getting defensive buffs and MT does counter those. Also on the upside, meks can increase MT permanently with meks tools as noted by Kharrak. Though as noted by Lepuke, he can't do this while embarked.)

Nob Bikers: With the whole business with ID they are looking a lot scarier then before, as most multi-wound models.

(Edit: Though aren't a cheesed powerhouse anymore. No point in equipping them differently, wound allocation has been sorted out. But, as Luke_Primer wrote, bikers are going to be very hard to hit. With T5 cover (4+ with no nasty strats) and multiple wounds, they aren't a waste of points either.)

So, kommandos. People say that outflankers and people with move through cover are getting a big boost. Seeing this surprise attack and the boost on speed for fleeters, this looks like we might have a decent unit. At 10pts each, they look pricy. Are these boosts going to make up for this?

KFFs are of course getting a nerf, to much groaning from the good and green and cheers to those with beaks.

(Edit: Though on the upside. The enemy does not get anywhere near as many covers also.)

Then we get nob deathstars. They are getting a few nerfing from the fact it is now possible to negate a FNP with a ap3 weapon.

(Edit: Also same problems as bikers.)

Anything to add/criticise?

Thanks for all feedback.

Flamers are now powerful against transports with firepoints and open topped. Burna boyz flaming against another open topped transport, or a rhino like transport will Obliterate the units inside of it.

Shokk attack gun can be fired on the move from a trukk, which I find nice.

Blasts are more accurate for orks.

Squadrons have gotten stronger. Meks + kanwall might actually be an improvement over KFF with the ability to resist stuns/immobilze/shaken with a 3+ save, mekboys also have a nice 4+ repair save instead of 5+.

Outflanking kommandos are nicer.

Zagstruck has gotten better, he has Heroic Deepstrike, meaning he can deepstrike within the 12" range and not get defensive fired.

Flash gitz now hit most things on 3+

Oh, I forgot about gits, I'm not sure if they are yet worth it though. I mean for that point value you could get nobs, and it's not as though the HS FO section is not very well contested. They are going to become more common probably with fluffy armies.

The other stuff is nice, I had not noticed them before now.

I was wondering about that with the flash gitz, they might actually be playable now that they shoot like marines!

i think the biggest nerf though is that nobs can now be picked out.

We don't have a single normal power weapon unless burnas will count and then a whole unit parrying could be kind of funny if I understand that right.

vercingatorix wrote:I was wondering about that with the flash gitz, they might actually be playable now that they shoot like marines!

i think the biggest nerf though is that nobs can now be picked out.

We don't have a single normal power weapon unless burnas will count and then a whole unit parrying could be kind of funny if I understand that right.

Burna's do not count for parrying.

Nobz can be picked out of course by IC's, but of course we also have the grot screen for those ranged directed fire. Put those gits to work providing cover saves

Flash gitz do better now that they can assault, and than shoot after once something is destroyed. Plus they are one of the better chances to penetrate FNP. (sad as that is)

Burnas, if the leak is accurate, have gotten better in assault. If I haven't misunderstood the Flame Sweep rule, at least. . . d6 extra attacks at S4 AP5 per model? Yes, please!

There is one dis-advantage to gits: they can also be picked off. I know they all have the same wargear (unless you get badrukk) and all but losing a painboy would mean losing that 4+ rigid.

Then burnas sound pretty scary at taking down hordes. The template THEN another d6+3 str4 attacks in the adjacent assault.

Though putting them in wagons sounds a bit less wise then? Or more to the point, put them in wagons, but get them out pretty quick to assault. Yes, you don't get those awesome cheese template stacks like in the older editions, but with buffs in assault and the new rules for transport vehicles exploding, that is worth it I think?

Even more power to kommandos, eh? They have burnas as a cheap upgrade don't they?

So, overall more power to footslogging ork lists. I think Jidmha is right in saying that footsloggers are going to be better off than before. BWs are fun and all, trukks are even worse than before and trakks and gunwagons are decent, but with the new importance of fleet.

* Nobs on bikes are less powerful due to the lack of wound allocation magic. That 500 point deathstar still can die pretty quickly.

* Battlewagons are tougher as they move to -1 on the damage table instead of +1 they are today

* With the increase in unit speed, foot troops become more effective. Bringing that green tide army is more feasable.

* With the assault phase being before the shooting phase, there is a good reason to bring more sluggas over shootas.

* 'Eavy armor on nob leaders is mandatory to ensure they cannot be singled out by snipers.

* Grot squads more extremely effective as they are very cheap scoring units. If they get wiped out, who cares?

* Weirdboys now give psychic defense -- something the orks were sorely lacking in

* Squadren rules make kan walls more effective. The speed increase of walkers also helps this out as well. This also makes units of warbuggies more effective.

* Scattering is less of an issue now. This means that anything with a big blast template is more effective. Possibly even looted wagons? Now a 105 point boomgun is not such a total suck.

* Flash Gitz' are a bit better than before.

* If imperial armor units are allowed, there are some nice options open for grot lists with tons of grot vehicles becomes a viable option.

* Truuks are less fragile, as they no longer give +1 for being open topped.

* Burnas having a range on their flamers helps. Burnas can no longer shoot out of a wagon that moved, well...one burna boy can but that it. This lowers the value of the burna wagon a lot.

labmouse42 wrote:*
* Weirdboys now give psychic defense -- something the orks were sorely lacking in

Where did you see this? I was hoping for something like this, but I must have missed it in the leak.

p109

Psychic Counter
Model Type: Psychic, Disembarked
Psykers can try to counter enemy powers by
tapping into the warp and draining the energy
that charges the enemy psyker’s power or use a
direct psychic attack to distract him. Psykers
embarked on a transport cannot perform a
Psychic Counter.
If an enemy psyker is using one of his powers
within 24” of any psyker of your own, you can try
to cancel the power. Roll a D6. If the result is 5 or
higher, the psychic power is nullified and does not
take effect that turn. If you have several psykers
in range, or one of the psykers has a special rule
or wargear to nullify enemy powers, you can only
start one attempt to stop the power. If several
players in a multi-player game want to nullify the
power, choose one player randomly to attempt
the psychic counter.

Wouldn't burna wagon be even more effective?

As you can alpha strike after boyz (I10 fire sweep or power weapons) then if the enemy died/ran you shoot with burnas another unit and then consolidate back to battlewagon.

And if you can use IA books then you can buy a burna junka instead of bw for burnas.

At first this gets you excited about shooting out of transports!

Fire Points
Each transport may have a number of fire points
defined in its entry. A fire point is a hatch or gun
slit from which one or more passengers inside the
transport can fire (or use any other Shooting
action). The number of models that can fire from
each fire point is specified in the vehicle’s entry,
and the other transported models may not use
Shooting actions.

Models that fire from a transport can fire on a
different target than the vehicle, but the unit
must fire at a single unit as normal. The line of
sight is determined from each fire point. To
determine if the target unit is in cover, use a fire
point chosen by the shooting unit’s controlling
player. Ranges (including point blank ranges) are
measured from the transport’s hull, body or base.
Transports offer a stable firing platform and often
provide enhanced targeting systems and gun
mounts. Therefore, models embarked on a
transport have the relentless shooting special rule.
The field of vision of a soldier firing through a
narrow firing slit is greatly reduced. To represent
this, an embarked squad may only target units
within 18”. This doesn’t affect the range of a
weapon to resolve other situations like the
distance in which a Melta weapon gets an extra
Armour Penetration dice.

If a model uses the multi-targeting rule to
perform several Shooting actions, it needs an
equal number of fire points (and a line of sight
from each of them) to do so. For example, a
model needs two fire points to fire an ordnance
weapon from the passenger compartment of a
transport

Then the bomb drops and you realize, only 1 burna can shoot out.

Shooting from moving transports
If the transport is damaged or moves fast, this
affects also the shooting performance of any
embarked unit. If the transport cannot perform
Stationary actions or has lost its multi-targeting
rule (temporarily or permanently), each embarked
unit can only perform a single Shooting action.
For example, only a single model of an embarked
unit can fire a weapon if the transport is shaken
or has moved at combat speed (or in the case of a
fast transport, has moved at cruise speed). If the
transport cannot perform Shooting actions,
embarked units cannot perform Shooting actions
either - the passengers are shaken as well or the
fire points are destroyed.

What made the burna wagon so awesome was all the units using one template. If your disembarking all the boys, you don't get that advantage.

labmouse42 wrote: Squadren rules make kan walls more effective. The speed increase of walkers also helps this out as well. This also makes units of warbuggies more effective.

Now this I don't agree on. Most of these buff are balanced out by all the other bits, like becoming less durable with EV 2 and not giving your entire army that 4+ invuln (happy days).

Short of that, you speak a lot of sense. I might have to rethink what I said about burnas with another rule flick.

Looks like more points to footsloggers with the total obliteration of burnawagons.

I did not think of the whole wound allocation thing on nob bikers. They do still seem pretty scary to me though, with the whole T5 multiwound and the fact that ID has been played with. Even then they are far from being the piece of cheese they used to be. Though they also suffer the same problem that the painboy could get sniped mounting on that.

I forgot to mention about heavy armour on the nob leaders. Hmm. Maybe Grotznik is becoming slightly more valuable now to grant 5++s?

Good one on the sluggas over shootas thing. Though of course you will need something to give defensive fire if any strikers show up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote: What made the burna wagon so awesome was all the units using one template. If your disembarking all the boys, you don't get that advantage.

On the other hand you get a ten piece squad of boys with 10d6+30 str4 or 30 power attacks that can fit in a gunwagon or bigtrakk.

Not quite the 100 str4 auto hit unit that we know and love, but it's not as though it is the only unit shaken up.

Well actually pretty much all of them are shaken up I suppose.

Thats a good point with the sheer number of shots that burnas can put out.

You can put 3 rokkits or big shootas in each boy blob. That can be used for defensive fire. Also, you have a lot of sluggas that can fire.

I predict that more green tide armies will begin to emerge. The improvement of the infantry speed will help this army out a lot.
I also predict that you will see more truuks in kult of speed lists. Ramshackle is a huge boon compared to other vehicle destroyed rules. I'm debating getting 70 nobs cheap off ebay, and building a nob/flash gitz army.

Id really like to get my hands on this codex leek. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Grinak wrote:Id really like to get my hands on this codex leek. Can someone point me in the right direction?

What codex leak?!

There is the rules leak you can find in the news and rumors forum. Just look for the thread with 95+ pages

The directed hits doesn't worry me with the boys squads because it only works for a specific armor group. Put heavy armor on your nobz and as long as you don't allocate wounds to him he can't be targeted.

I think weirdboys just got a lot better. With the changes to fleet additional waaghs will mean 2 in extra movement or a 10 inch charge. The psychic defense is also very nice.

Outflanking kopters will be crazy good, if nothing else just to force the enemy to stay in potentially unfavorable positions at the center of the board.

the burna wagon still might be useful though as an actual assault vehicle. If you manage to lock up a unit with boys and then charge with I10 burnas now you've got a nasty combination. It would require completely outmaneuvering your opponent though, so not very reliable.

Hold on, all burnas can still fire if it's an open topped vehicle.

Models with the open-topped rule do not have
specific fire points. Instead, passengers in an open
topped transport may fire from any point of the
model’s body or hull. Check the line of sight and
cover saves of the target unit from any point on
the hull or body of the transport. This does not
need to be the spot that you used for measuring
distances (e.g. the nearest point to the target
unit). The number of models that can fire from an
open-topped transport is not limited by the
number of fire points.

Outside from that, it doesn't seem too different to how things are now.

As far as changes, Trukk delivery got a bit of a shake up. Trukks can only move 7" and deploy boyz - though the Open Topped rule does allow the boyz to execute a Charge move out of the trukk. So, Ork boyz now have a 19" assault range - 21" if you have waaagh'd. It's a notable decrease to what we are currently used to.

Also note, Red Paint now adds +1 to a vehicle's move profile, not to total distance traveled. So a Trukk with Red Paint moves 7"->14"->21"!

Waaagh also has an interesting effect. The changes to fleet means that Waaagh'ing now benifits units not looking to get into combat - providing a global 8" move, or 16" run for Boyz otherwise not charging.

Lootas will be hitting tanks on 4+. They will be hitting stationary tanks on 3+. The mind boggles.

And yes, due to Direct Hits, buying 'Eavy Armour for Nobs squad leaders will be essential.

In general, due to the vast decrease in cover: global 5+ save, have to be obscured to gain cover (being in terrain doesn't automatically grant cover), intervening units no longer grant cover, and the KFF, it's going to be a very different ball game, possibly a much, much more aggressive one. Slower trukk delivery in itself may result in a massive shift in Ork play, particularly when combined with the worsened KFF save.

Grinak wrote:Id really like to get my hands on this codex leek. Can someone point me in the right direction?

If the link in news thread wont work then pm me your email so that I can give you the "leaked" rules

zilegil wrote:

On the other hand you get a ten piece squad of boys with 10d6+30 str4 or 30 power attacks that can fit in a gunwagon or bigtrakk.

I'm not sure if you get d6+normal cc attacks but I know fire sweep attacks auto hit.

labmouse42 wrote:What made the burna wagon so awesome was all the units using one template. If your disembarking all the boys, you don't get that advantage.

Sure shooting everything from a wagon is awesome but fire sweep, alpha strike and 3" extra template range make up for it. And like I said junka (counts as fast on 2+ at start of movement, has free deffrolla, 3 free scorchas and str 6 ap 3 flamer all for 85pts). Also I never considered wagon's open topped shooting as the real bonus for burnas. Much more important is the added survivability of wagon.

Kharrak wrote:Hold on, all burnas can still fire if it's an open topped vehicle.[

Sure they can, if the wagon stands still.
Read the second rules snippet I posted earlier. I doubt many units will rush to get close to the wagon loaded with burnas.

As was mentioned earlier, the flamers in assault are darn good and I can see them being used as an assault unit, but the mobile wagon flame machine is gone. At best you can drop them all out and have em all flame a target

Edited the OP.

As much as I love the new firesweep, when will I ever use the power weapon option on my burnas?

Since warbikers have jink, units with BS3 hit on +5 when the bikes have move, on top of the 5 toughness against shooting and +4 cover save makes them dead 'ard. and since the toughness increase can't be ignored by instant death, you'd need a lascannon to take out a biker nob.

Luke_Prowler wrote:As much as I love the new firesweep, when will I ever use the power weapon option on my burnas?

On space marines, chaos marines, FNP units, sisters of battle, and terminators, maybe necrons too.

Note that all flamers can now fire their template 3" away from their base, hellhound-style. That way a disembarked unit of burnaz will most likely be able to shoot all its templates at their target, unlike now, where half the burnaz are blocked from shooting. In addition, both Zagstrukk and Warpheads can now deepstrike much more careless, as you can no longer lose your unit by mishapping.

Someone also said that boyz can charge 10", that's incorrect. Boyz move 6" and charge 12". During a Waagh, you move 8" or charge 16".

As collateral damage of making fleet better, Ghazghkull Thrakka became mostly useless though.

Battlewagons can no longer killed by glances, thus making them a lot more durable, even if KFF going down to 5+. Multi-targeting(3) also means no more points wasted on big shootaz, while making "weapon destroyed" completely harmless. So, instead of 3 dangerous results from glances, we went down to one, while penetrating hits went from five to three dangerous results. I wouldn't call battlewagons dead just yet.

I gave the leak a quick read, and horde lists are definately looking better (especially now that models within 3" of a model in b2b get to attack) and the changed movement gives most units a 12-18" threat range, stormboyz and tankbustas get a little love with regards to actually getting to do something. The main nerfs i see are to our KFFs and Cc potential, we are still demons in assault, but with all CC attacks being AP6 every sucessful wound is.going to hit us hard (unless we get faq'd to a 5+) I see grotsnik and his cybergrots lists being very effective in 6th, if only because they get that 5++

Leigen_Zero wrote:I gave the leak a quick read, and horde lists are definately looking better (especially now that models within 3" of a model in b2b get to attack) and the changed movement gives most units a 12-18" threat range, stormboyz and tankbustas get a little love with regards to actually getting to do something. The main nerfs i see are to our KFFs and Cc potential, we are still demons in assault, but with all CC attacks being AP6 every sucessful wound is.going to hit us hard (unless we get faq'd to a 5+) I see grotsnik and his cybergrots lists being very effective in 6th, if only because they get that 5++

Not all CC attacks, remember it has to be an actual CCW weapon, meaning things like space marines tactical squad will only be able to smack us back with their bolters, or shoot us with their pistols.

Also note that Kan walls themselves will no longer provide cover saves to units behind them.

Intervening models no longer provide cover saves. Well, they can if you declare them as cover, but then they will take a critical hit for every saved wound.

Combine that with Kans being easier to hit, and 5+ save, Kan Wall will likely lose it's purpouse completely.

Also, about the Burna Wagon, I see what you're saying. Pity that, but I do look forward to being forced to see what else I can field.

And a note on squadrons being able to negate damage - it's a very tricky scenario, since I've playtested with it. On one hand, with a full squadron, you get a 3+ to negate it, but if you fail it, all the members of the squadron take that damage. Having an entire squadron suffer wepaon damage (-1 multitargeting) or being immobilized is hilarious, but frustrating. Then again, a single immobilized squadron member anchors the whole unit anyway, so it's a arguable risk to take.

Also, also, check out the repair rules! A Big Mek can permanently INCREASE the multitargeting of a vehicle!

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Not all CC attacks, remember it has to be an actual CCW weapon, meaning things like space marines tactical squad will only be able to smack us back with their bolters, or shoot us with their pistols.

Yeah I missed that part (although I though all marines came with Bolter & Bolt Pistol + CCW as default)

Also looking at the new ID rules, it seems to have gotten a pretty big nerfing, especially as power weapons, lightning claws, etc no longer cause ID. But the main threats to our nobz as a result to the ID changes are still those things that we didn't want them to dice with in the first place (i.e. assault based heavy infantry such as assault termies).

Out of curiosity, why are kans reduced to a 5+ save now? (i understand KFF and other cover no longer works, but where did the 5+ come from?)

Leigen_Zero wrote:Out of curiosity, why are kans reduced to a 5+ save now? (i understand KFF and other cover no longer works, but where did the 5+ come from?)

The global cover save is 5+, instead of 4+, for everyone. Additionally, the Ork FAQ stated simply that the KFF grants all units within 6" get 5+, and left it at that. Thus, Kans only get a 5+ cover save.