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A re-match between my budding Daemons and JM's Necrons.


1500 points
Capture & Control
Dawn of War

JM's Necrons

Zanhdrek
Obyron
x10 Immortals (Gauss)
x10 Immortals (Tesla) Cryptek HoDestruction+Solar Pulse
x9 Warriors - Cryptek HoDestruction
Ghost Arc
x5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion shields Cryptek HoEternity+Cloak and Chronmetron
x2 Annihilation Barge
Total= 1482


Chaos Daemons, 1497 points. Preferred Wave:
FateWeaver
Skulltaker + Chariot (he'll look like a BloodCrusher model)
x2 BloodCrushers, icon, instrument
x7 Blood Letters, icon, instrument
DP - MoT, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of T, Breath of Chaos, D-Flight, Daemonic Gaze

Second Wave:
x7 Blood Letters, icon, instrument
x5 Blood Letters, instrument
x5 Fleshhounds
DP - MoK, Iron Hide, D-Flight

He wins the toss to go first. To speed things up, this is a shot at the end of his Turn 1. He started with the GhostArk on the hill, walked a few units on from the edge and GhostWalked Obyron and crew to mid table. He is slightly threatening my C&C objective, the two oil, err, promethium barrels in the lower R-corner.



Daemons Turn 1
I roll a '2' for the Second Wave, just like last time.

The fist BLs do okay near his C&C. Then this disaster: Khorne daemon scatters straight to the barge. I forgot that I paid for D-Flight and could have easily padded more distance for my DeepStrike spot. Result? a '2'. Dead. JM was disappointed too, and being very cool said we ought to do it over and I said cool and just put the Khorne DP back into Reserve.


... Moving On. Just to the lower left, I put the Fleshhounds into the terrain and Dangerous Terrain Tests were passed. In all cases I got good Runs to spread for Cover or charging ... if they last.



Necron Turn 2:

Some shuffling about and then loads of shooting. He's got it easy as I have 3 small units on the board.

BloodLetters near the objective totally snuffed out. Fleshhounds will actually survive a and only lose one dog, being far enough away from the core of the necron army. The BLs behind the boxes will get reduced to 2, having born the brunt of the GhostArk and warriors inside.



Daemons Turn 2 - BloodCrushers, Bloodletters and FateWeaver. Here you can see the BLs scattering just within an inch of Obyron's unit.


After they go, FateWeaver is within range for a few spells, but only one lycheguard will truly die.



The mishap result was "placement by the enemy", so JM put them here, so he can shoot them with up to four units, one Anni-Barge, the GhostArk and two Immortal crews. I passed D-terrain tests. Just inside the ruins to the left are two BLs heading for quieter ground, my C&C objective. I'm already likely to be playing for a Draw here. Oy.


Not shown - the four fleshhounds will get the assault into the Immortals and do horribly. They get killed having little impact on the immortals they assaulted.

Good start of report thks

And congratulation to play a very weak (IMO) codex against a hard one !

I would not qualify the Daemon codex as weak. It takes a lot of finesse to play it correctly and you need to understand the strengths/weaknesses of your army. It is not as straight forward as some armies and its unique deployment style is what makes or breaks the army.

Right off the bat I see a few problems. You have way too many icons in this list and it makes 0 sense to equip a 2 man unit of Crushers with an Instrument and Icon.

You should have your DP's all in the same wave to benefit from Fate and to saturate T5 on the board. For the DP as well, even if he had stuck, he was dead where you put him. There is no way he could survive that fire power and the 'letters were pretty much dead as well. Unless I had some rock hard units, I wouldn't go anywhere near that firebase (especially within 18" which is a 6" move and 12" rapid fire).

Since this mission is C and C I would have dropped at least one troop choice on my objective at the start of the game out of LoS and gone to ground. Also, there is a prime LoS blocking building right in his deployment zone.

Further, he has really overextended with his Lychguard, he will pull them back after you DS if a pair of 'letter units are close enough. Otherwise he has no real good way to win.

Getting your secondary wave is all about surviving with most of your army intact. A single icon can trigger a massive force buildup at a pinpoint location and force him to go after that unit.

Khorne is actually a very tough army to play. IMO the lack of mobility makes them somewhat weak. You've also got too much "fat" on your units (i.e. instruments and icons). I understand if you want to play a mainly khorne force, but you really should consider other gods in your army to make it more balanced (fiends for mobility, tzeentch heralds and some plaguebearers for objectives).

Not looking too good for daemons so far, but at least whatever you hit in combat, you should be able to win.

@Jy2: atm he is building up his force. I agree that's a good direction to go and I told him so the other night.

Zanhdrek-185
Obyron-160
x10 Immortals (Gauss)-170
x10 Immortals (Tesla) 170+Cryptek HoDestruction+Solar Pulse-55=225
x9 Warriors-117+Cryptek HoDestruction-35pts = 152
Ghost Arc-115
x5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion shields-225+Cryptek HoEternity+Cloak and Chronmetron-70pts=295
x2 Annihilation Barge-90 pts
Total= 1482

This should be the actual list for the Necron force

jy2 wrote: You've also got too much "fat" on your units (i.e. instruments and icons).

Absolutely, the list is "pushed" and needs Weight Watchers. Once the BCs get larger it makes sense to include an Instrument for WoundAllocationShenanigans. Although I had an Icon on the 'Crushers hoping for them to be in the first wave, allowing the MoK DP a soft landing.

I still need to work that aspect out.

When I get them, there will be more troop units and less bling, more 'Crushers, a larger flesh hound unit. And I like mounted girls (no pun intended) for another Fast Attack choice. For now, I may simply trim back points and play 'em as a 1k army, sans FateWeaver. I'll proxy a Skulltaker for an HQ instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jmartin wrote:Zanhdrek-185
Obyron-160
x10 Immortals (Gauss)-170
x10 Immortals (Tesla) 170+Cryptek HoDestruction+Solar Pulse-55=225
x9 Warriors-117+Cryptek HoDestruction-35pts = 152
Ghost Arc-115
x5 Lychguard w/ Dispersion shields-225+Cryptek HoEternity+Cloak and Chronmetron-70pts=295
x2 Annihilation Barge-90 pts
Total= 1482

This should be the actual list for the Necron force

Thanks, although I edited in the correct list in the Original Post.

Was truly rooting for the Daemons. It's nice your buddy let you put the Daemon prince back in reserve.

Last game I played against eldar, turn two I had icons in place and failed all 6 4+ reserve rolls. Daemons are surely dependent on luck more than any other army, that's what we get for playing daemons!

Necron Turn 3

The shooting goes predictably enough for the Bloodletters. What *I* didn't tumble was damned Obyron GhostWalking away. And my Bloodcrusher crew is in the middle of nowehere. I have a flat learning curve, I tell ya.






Daemon Turn 3

Both DPs do not come in from Reserve.

Moving and Running. There are Immortals to eat ... eventually. FateW does shoot at the Anni-Barge that is hiding to my right, and I'm pretty sure I popped it this Turn. This is an amazing feat, given a Bolt of T's STR. 2 BLs are far enough away from any shooting and head for open and faster ground.





Necrons Turn 4

Obyron GhostWalks *back* into the path of my BCs. I don't complain. Zahndrekh is with the unit of Immortals that the BCs and Skulltaker were heading for. I'm guessing JM wants the lycheguard to be the speed bump for Zahndrekh.
The BloodCrushers get a green light bath. Thanks to FateW's bubble, they'll survive the GhostArk, and Immortal tesla guns with a wound each and two on Skulltaker (he's the forward BC model).






Daemons Turn 4

Finally, nom nom, time. I have the Skulltaker model (who has lost his IC status due to the Chariot upgrade) put all his smacks on Obyron. Kills 'em handily. The other two BCs smack down a few lycheguard, but it was a tough combat. I lose the Icon Bearer. And damnit, Obyron Ever Livings his way back up! Hindsight: Give Obyron only two or three attacks, given Skulltaker's special Rending ID rule, and then spread other ID love out to the unit to lower the Morale roll.







Necrons Turn 5

Obyron and the lycheguard pop over here to greet my two BLs.






Daemons Turn 5


Both DPs arrive safely. The MoK DP gets a 1 for his Run. The Sorcerer also manages to pull another vehicle kill out of the Chaos Daemon Hat and Exploded! the Ghost Ark. The Warriors fail a Pinning check.





Necrons Turn 6
Skipped pic. I honestly cannot recall what happened. He might've shot FateW and the DP. If so, they survived.



Daemons Turn 6

Lots of daemonic flight and I finally cover the ground that has been hurting this whole game.

The MoK DP gets to combat with Obyron's crew, but ....






FateWeaver started an assault too, drawing Obyron away to help Zahndrekh. So now I'm hoping the MoK DP will finally do some good. But the lyches have 4++ and power toys. And he will lose Combat and take a few wounds.

After my Sorcerer DP does the usual Breath and Daemonic Gaze, he assaulted the Warriors. He will *lose* combat and then fail an No Retreat armor save.


Both DPs just failing.


Necrons Turn 7
Picture is of end of Necron Turn 7. Obyron Ghostwalked Zahndrekh and the Immortals out from under FateW and off toward my objective. The shooters finished off the two bloodletters. You can also see the green DP didn't last this round of combat either. IIRC, the purple DP smacks a several in his h2h, but combat holds.






Severe fracking fail, man. Bob is gonna have to stick to doing comedy (see Quitting DPs, below).




The Anni-Barge pokes at FateW, but he's fine.


JM risks a Veil of Darkness to bring Immortals to my objective. It goes off without a hitch as the lycheguard pull back a bit.
IIRC, the scatter was close, but enough.





Daemons Turn 7

FateW flies over, Bolt of Ts, Breathes and Gazes before assaulting in. He'll get the contest.





But it won't be enough. As there's a troop unit on my C&C objective.



Necrons win!

And my daemons are 0-2. Some bad luck, but mostly nooBishness on my part.

Alright, tutorial time, professors. I'd like some advice on tactics. Wave selection? C&C objective splitting. Necron teleport goofery. Ignoring Obyron since my mobility is so limited. Etc.

Big blobs of dudes are one of Daemons strengths imo. You need a lot of dudes piled around fateweaver to maximize his bonus.

Ok Bro-K, heres my comments on the list:

FateWeaver
Skulltaker + Chariot (he'll look like a BloodCrusher model)
x2 BloodCrushers, icon, instrument
x7 Blood Letters, icon, instrument
DP - MoT, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of T, Breath of Chaos, D-Flight, Daemonic Gaze
x7 Blood Letters, icon, instrument
x5 Blood Letters, instrument
x5 Fleshhounds
DP - MoK, Iron Hide, D-Flight

Ok, so your trying to do Fatecrusher (I run Fiendweaver myself), so if your going that route, then you gotta do it right.

- Min sized Horrors or Plaguebearer's is where its at. As well, LESS ICONS. At most in 2k you'll have 2 icons... MAX.
- If your going to do letters, one big blob will work better than several small blobs. They need to live to see combat!
- Fleshhounds are OK, but you need to flesh out the rest of your list first (Max elites, troops, heavies, HQ) before you even touch FA. Daemon FA choices are meh
- Skulltaker should be mounted on a Juggernaught so he can hide in your Crushers
- You need at least 4 Crushers before they become effective... 2 will die just too quickly.
- Your DP is FAR too kitted out. Keep DP's simple, they can shoot 3 weapons, doesn't mean that they should. If they could split fire then more shooting would be better, but they can't.
- I hate MoK princes as MoN princes are more survivable, AND more killy.

As for your tactics, you spread out too much. Daemons need to focus fire and stay together to conquer. Weaver should never be very far from your princes or your crushers. Weaver should also never charge in unless its dire need, or hes guarenteed to get back out again, hes a very effective shooter.

That said, heres how I'd change your list assuming those are the only models you have:

HQ
-----
Fateweaver - 333 pts
Skulltaker - Jugg - 175 pts

Elites
--------
4x Bloodcrushers - Icon, Fury, Banner - 240 pts

Troops
----------
10x Bloodletters - 160 pts
10x Bloodletters - 160 pts
5x Plaguebearers - 75 pts
5x Plaguebearers - 75 pts

Heavies
------------
DP - MoT, BoT - 140 pts
DP - MoT, BoT - 140 pts

Total: 1498 pts

I'd say proxy a lil and see how it works for you, but its more balanced. I'd prefer a ton of horrors, but Fiendweaver doesn't play like Fatecrusher in a lot of ways.... thats how I'd recommend tryin em. As for waves, do this:

Wave 1
Fateweaver
Crusherblock
DP
Letters

Wave 2
DP
Letters
PB
PB

You always want a little kick in both waves, that way if your preferred doesn't come in, your not completely gimpped (just on the backfoot!)

Zid wrote:
Wave 1
Fateweaver
Crusherblock
DP
Letters

Wave 2
DP
Letters
PB
PB

You always want a little kick in both waves, that way if your preferred doesn't come in, your not completely gimpped (just on the backfoot!)

This is the only thing I do not agree with. With a single DP and 10 'letters are not survivable enough to DS close to the enemy. Also, the DP is just asking to get slaughtered by Missile Launchers and without another credible threat to pound in (or Fateweaver) after him he is going to be wasted. If you go with all infantry (2x 'letters and 2x PB) you can hide in buildings, out of LoS and go to ground for a 3+ cover save. This 'wastes' the anti tank fire opponents have and if they are silly enough to hop out of their vehicles to lay down anti infantry fire then that is even better for you. I always saturate each wave based on what weapons my opponent has that are good against them and how effectively I can eliminate threats to the models.

For example, against Dark Eldar with Ravagers I tend to put SG in the secondary wave, knowing I can reduce the amount of Lance fire coming at me with a turn or two of Bolts.

Zid wrote:- Skulltaker should be mounted on a Juggernaught so he can hide in your Crushers

Do you mean Chariot? As that blends him in, losing his IC status.

But otherwise, as I can afford it, I'll look into expansion as you've outlined things.

Zid wrote: Skulltaker - Jugg - 175 pts

Chariot or Jug?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:This is the only thing I do not agree with. With a single DP and 10 'letters are not survivable enough to DS close to the enemy. Also, the DP is just asking to get slaughtered by Missile Launchers and without another credible threat to pound in (or Fateweaver) after him he is going to be wasted. If you go with all infantry (2x 'letters and 2x PB) you can hide in buildings, out of LoS and go to ground for a 3+ cover save. This 'wastes' the anti tank fire opponents have and if they are silly enough to hop out of their vehicles to lay down anti infantry fire then that is even better for you. I always saturate each wave based on what weapons my opponent has that are good against them and how effectively I can eliminate threats to the models.

For example, against Dark Eldar with Ravagers I tend to put SG in the secondary wave, knowing I can reduce the amount of Lance fire coming at me with a turn or two of Bolts.

I've been noting and considering your advice to, Cal. Thanks.

Brothererekose wrote:

Zid wrote:- Skulltaker should be mounted on a Juggernaught so he can hide in your Crushers

Do you mean Chariot? As that blends him in, losing his IC status.

But otherwise, as I can afford it, I'll look into expansion as you've outlined things.

Zid wrote: Skulltaker - Jugg - 175 pts

Chariot or Jug?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:This is the only thing I do not agree with. With a single DP and 10 'letters are not survivable enough to DS close to the enemy. Also, the DP is just asking to get slaughtered by Missile Launchers and without another credible threat to pound in (or Fateweaver) after him he is going to be wasted. If you go with all infantry (2x 'letters and 2x PB) you can hide in buildings, out of LoS and go to ground for a 3+ cover save. This 'wastes' the anti tank fire opponents have and if they are silly enough to hop out of their vehicles to lay down anti infantry fire then that is even better for you. I always saturate each wave based on what weapons my opponent has that are good against them and how effectively I can eliminate threats to the models.

For example, against Dark Eldar with Ravagers I tend to put SG in the secondary wave, knowing I can reduce the amount of Lance fire coming at me with a turn or two of Bolts.

I've been noting and considering your advice to, Cal. Thanks.

Jugg, on a Chariot hes not an IC, so he has to ride solo around the field


Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:

Zid wrote:
Wave 1
Fateweaver
Crusherblock
DP
Letters

Wave 2
DP
Letters
PB
PB

You always want a little kick in both waves, that way if your preferred doesn't come in, your not completely gimpped (just on the backfoot!)

I can agree there; I just like having another CC threat hitting early. Normally if my secondary wave comes in I play defensively anyway until my heavy hitters come in. Against Necrons, either way, BoT is kinda moot as you will need several (rolls pending) to penetrate that damn AV 13!

This is the only thing I do not agree with. With a single DP and 10 'letters are not survivable enough to DS close to the enemy. Also, the DP is just asking to get slaughtered by Missile Launchers and without another credible threat to pound in (or Fateweaver) after him he is going to be wasted. If you go with all infantry (2x 'letters and 2x PB) you can hide in buildings, out of LoS and go to ground for a 3+ cover save. This 'wastes' the anti tank fire opponents have and if they are silly enough to hop out of their vehicles to lay down anti infantry fire then that is even better for you. I always saturate each wave based on what weapons my opponent has that are good against them and how effectively I can eliminate threats to the models.

For example, against Dark Eldar with Ravagers I tend to put SG in the secondary wave, knowing I can reduce the amount of Lance fire coming at me with a turn or two of Bolts.

Zid wrote:- Skulltaker should be mounted on a Juggernaught so he can hide in your Crushers

Do you mean Chariot? As that blends him in, losing his IC status.

But otherwise, as I can afford it, I'll look into expansion as you've outlined things.

Zid wrote:Jugg, on a Chariot hes not an IC, so he has to ride solo around the field

Double check that, Zid. I'm lookin' at the page 76's "Chariot" entry. Last sentence.

Jug keeps his IC status. Chariot loses it. But, that quibble aside, we both know that making him blend in is the point.

Brothererekose wrote:

Zid wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:

Zid wrote:- Skulltaker should be mounted on a Juggernaught so he can hide in your Crushers

Do you mean Chariot? As that blends him in, losing his IC status.

But otherwise, as I can afford it, I'll look into expansion as you've outlined things.

Zid wrote:Jugg, on a Chariot hes not an IC, so he has to ride solo around the field

Double check that, Zid. I'm lookin' at the page 76's "Chariot" entry. Last sentence.

Jug keeps his IC status. Chariot loses it. But, that quibble aside, we both know that making him blend in is the point.

No, if a model is NOT an IC (I.E. Mephioston) they cannot join a unit. So he would be solo on the field, as he cannot be joined to any unit.

Zid wrote:No, if a model is NOT an IC (I.E. Mephioston) they cannot join a unit. So he would be solo on the field, as he cannot be joined to any unit.

Ohh, now I get it. A single unit of *one* non-IC model, like Mephy. Jug, it is.