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So, I've got a friend who's new to 40k - even newer than I - and we've been playing games as he builds his force: 350 points, 600 points, and now 900 points. He plays a classic Wall of Tanks Imperial Guard force, I do Descent of Angels Blood Angels. Despite the fact that I've been at this game for almost a year longer than him, I cannot seem to beat him. I can't even seem to do more than bloody his nose - I think I've ended every game so far being tabled, having wiped out a unit or two of veterans.

The games seem to go like this:

Turn 1: he deploys. I wait.

Turn 2: I drop out of the sky and maneuver a little, maybe take out one of his tanks. My goal is to get close enough that I can pop his transports and engage him in close combat to keep my assault squads from being shot at. I usually lose a fair number of troops to his plasma. His enormous amounts of plasma.

Turn 3: I attempt my plan. What happens next is usually that I either A) fail to pop his transports or B) pop the transport and wipe out the troops inside, losing the protection of close combat and... He begins to blow me out of the water. It's downhill from there.

I've tried dropping further away and trying to make my way towards his wall of tanks, hugging cover - it doesn't help. I've hybridized my list so it includes landspeeders and - when we reach 1500 points - a stormraven. So far it doesn't help.

Here are my questions:

1) Is this just a bad matchup? Is there nothing I can do except play a different army or a different kind of Blood Angels army?

2) If this isn't a bad matchup, what can I do to make these games feel more even? I don't ned to win all the time, but I'd like to win some of the time.

It is actually a pretty good match-up. How does your list look like?

Pin-point melta should blow up his tanks easily, and the contents should fold to exploding chimeras and charging marines.

If the problem is that he deploys in an anti-DS way, then catch him off-guard sometime by deploying normally.

It sounds like your problem is that when you assault, you kill what you're assaulting and are left with your ass out in the breeze. Next time you wreck a transport, try this:

You say that he deploys a "wall" of armor, so that leads me to believe that his units are close together. Multiassault the unit of now-disembarked Guardsmen with ONE model, and move the rest (if possible) into base with adjacent tanks or other units. This way, you're only putting 3 attacks into the squad so you have less of a chance of killing enough of them to force them to break or wiping them out. Then when you consolidate, move more units into H2H with the Guardsmen, ensuring that you'll wipe them in HIS assault phase and be free to move.

I'll try that assault trick sometime.

My list is (roughly):

Jump pack librarian
Sanguinary guard
2 jump pack sanguinary priests
Furioso dreadnought
2 10-man assault squads w/2 meltaguns and 1 powerfist each
2 typhoon-pattern land speeders
Stormraven

(bold = we haven't played a game large enough to include these elements yet)

If you use Vanguards instead of Sanguinary Guards, you can just drop them into assault with those vehicles.

In my opinion, you do not need to hybridize the DoA list in order to be successful against this Guard army. NuggzTheNinja hit the nail on the head. You must multi-assault so that you are still in H2H during his shooting phase. Sometimes it is easier said than done, but it is your goal.

Disclaimer: I am not one of those who is going to tell you that you must change your list to find success. If these are the models and the list that you want to play, then play them.

Depending on the guard list, it may be a very bad match up for a DoA list. If your facing 3 PG per tank, you can expect to see your dropping angles become pairs of smoldering boots.
As such, you have one of two options open to you.

First, if your going to decend, drop down so half his force cannot target you. If he forms the standard parking lot, deploy on one side so he cant shoot you with everything. Your goal is to bring your entire force to bear on half his.
If you can get side shots on a chimera, thats gravy as they have AV 10 on their sides.

The other option is to throw a wrench in his works. Switch your army to razorspam or AV13 spam and watch is PG become much less effective. I know thats a considerable investment of $$$, but its something to consider if he has bought his army to counter yours. Either way, remember that your MUCH better at assaulting, and take advantage of that when you can. BA can't stand and outshoot IG, you need to use a combo of shooting and assulting to win.

Theme armies have built in weaknesses. Its just the nature of the beast, and I find the same when playing a all-biker army. Going hybrid is the best thing you can do to help.

labmouse42 wrote:Going hybrid is the best thing you can do to help.

I am not trying to offend here, but I disagree. If you want to play Mech, then Razor up the whole force and get Preds for support. Mech out the entire list (which will reduce the effectiveness of the plasma guns). If you want to play DoA, then play DoA. In my experience, hybrid is a weaker build.

This is just the opinion of one Blood Angels player. Take it with a grain of salt.

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:I am not trying to offend here, but I disagree. If you want to play Mech, then Razor up the whole force and get Preds for support. Mech out the entire list (which will reduce the effectiveness of the plasma guns). If you want to play DoA, then play DoA. In my experience, hybrid is a weaker build..

I play a marine biker list. Its a theme list, and very fun to play. However, without proper support the list gets crushed. By going hybrid and taking tanks as support units the list works very well.

That is what I am suggesting as a hybrid. Keep your DoA as your troops, but support them with long range fire to crack transports at range. If you want to keep the "all infantry" army theme going, devestators in BA are great. Attack bikes can also fill this role as well.

The goal is to have some holes punched in the chimeras before your DoA lands, or to give your DoA support as they are coming down.

That is what I am suggesting as hybrid.

Major Motoko Kusanagi: If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death. --- Ghost in the Shell 1995

Well, you have a couple of different opinions presented here. There is some wisdom in labmouse's position. However, you should consider the following issues.

If you take a couple of tanks, they will become the targets of all your enemy's anti-tank weaponry. Chances of surviving long enough to do something are increased by target saturation. Thus, razorspam instead of hybrid.

If you take the devastators in a list where most of the army is reserving for deepstrike, the following problem will present itself: Do you start your devastators on the board? If so, then they will be the target of the entire enemy force in the first 2 turns. They usually get blasted off the table quickly. An alternative is to reserve and walk them on in order to avoid enemy firepower. If you do this, it sort of defeats the purpose. The earliest they could possibly fire is turn 3, because they have to walk on the table.

Its your army, so the choice is yours to make. I am just throwing my opinion in for consideration.

I am not sure what to say about the fictional Japanese animated character quote.

labmouse42 wrote:Depending on the guard list, it may be a very bad match up for a DoA list. If your facing 3 PG per tank, you can expect to see your dropping angles become pairs of smoldering boots.
As such, you have one of two options open to you.

First, if your going to decend, drop down so half his force cannot target you. If he forms the standard parking lot, deploy on one side so he cant shoot you with everything. Your goal is to bring your entire force to bear on half his.
If you can get side shots on a chimera, thats gravy as they have AV 10 on their sides.

The other option is to throw a wrench in his works. Switch your army to razorspam or AV13 spam and watch is PG become much less effective. I know thats a considerable investment of $$$, but its something to consider if he has bought his army to counter yours. Either way, remember that your MUCH better at assaulting, and take advantage of that when you can. BA can't stand and outshoot IG, you need to use a combo of shooting and assulting to win.

Theme armies have built in weaknesses. Its just the nature of the beast, and I find the same when playing a all-biker army. Going hybrid is the best thing you can do to help.

The Imperial Guard army is a plasma CCS, two meltavets in chimeras, a Leman Russ Executioner and a Manticore. So it's an all comers list, a lot of the problems come when landing since if you fire melta guns and don't blow up the Executioner it's 3 plasma cannon templates can really mess up a squad that doesn't run on its first move, and if they do run they have to take 8 plasma and 6 melta shots plus the plasma cannon blasts before they can even fire. That's showing up right next to the guard tanks, dunno how it works landing farther out.

Personally, I find DC dreads with Blood Talons a lot scarier than Furisios.

Also, what is your dread armed with?

ElectricPaladin wrote:I'll try that assault trick sometime.

My list is (roughly):

Jump pack librarian
Sanguinary guard
2 jump pack sanguinary priests
Furioso dreadnought
2 10-man assault squads w/2 meltaguns and 1 powerfist each
2 typhoon-pattern land speeders
Stormraven

(bold = we haven't played a game large enough to include these elements yet)

Infernus pistols, multi assault, combat squadded assault squads, multi assault, drop the power fists, add melta bombs, multi assault, use deep strike dual multi melta land speedersx3, krak grenade vehicle multi assault, drop the furioso, drop the stormraven, drop the S. guard, multi assault, add maximum assault squads outfitted as above, make IG player cry. Did I forget to mention multi assault?

Byte wrote:

ElectricPaladin wrote:I'll try that assault trick sometime.

My list is (roughly):

Jump pack librarian
Sanguinary guard
2 jump pack sanguinary priests
Furioso dreadnought
2 10-man assault squads w/2 meltaguns and 1 powerfist each
2 typhoon-pattern land speeders
Stormraven

(bold = we haven't played a game large enough to include these elements yet)

Infernus pistols, multi assault, combat squadded assault squads, multi assault, drop the power fists, add melta bombs, multi assault, use deep strike dual multi melta land speedersx3, krak grenade vehicle multi assault, drop the furioso, drop the stormraven, drop the S. guard, multi assault, add maximum assault squads outfitted as above, make IG player cry. Did I forget to mention multi assault?

No, but you may have forgotten to mention melta.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Byte wrote:

ElectricPaladin wrote:I'll try that assault trick sometime.

My list is (roughly):

Jump pack librarian
Sanguinary guard
2 jump pack sanguinary priests
Furioso dreadnought
2 10-man assault squads w/2 meltaguns and 1 powerfist each
2 typhoon-pattern land speeders
Stormraven

(bold = we haven't played a game large enough to include these elements yet)

Infernus pistols, multi assault, combat squadded assault squads, multi assault, drop the power fists, add melta bombs, multi assault, use deep strike dual multi melta land speedersx3, krak grenade vehicle multi assault, drop the furioso, drop the stormraven, drop the S. guard, multi assault, add maximum assault squads outfitted as above, make IG player cry. Did I forget to mention multi assault?

No, but you may have forgotten to mention melta.

Nice...

ElectricPaladin wrote:I'll try that assault trick sometime.

My list is (roughly):

Jump pack librarian
Sanguinary guard
2 jump pack sanguinary priests
Furioso dreadnought
2 10-man assault squads w/2 meltaguns and 1 powerfist each
2 typhoon-pattern land speeders
Stormraven

(bold = we haven't played a game large enough to include these elements yet)

Combi-meltas on those priests will help. Blood lance on libby will help. Meltapistols on sergeants/sanguinary guard will help. IMO, the typhoons look out of place in this list, so that might be a good place to get some points.

Always combat squad. Always make sure that every squad can take down tanks.

The assault trick has a huge flaw: pens/glances on vehicles count for combat res. So if you send 4 furious charging guys into the chimera and one in the squad, you are still likely to rack up a huge combat res, which means the guys will run, and you will not be stuck in combat. Of course, you should always multi-assault to drag down as much as possible all the time, but don't expect to be able to stay in combat often.

What if you try drop pods whit sternguard whit meltas and combi meltas

Any follow up?

Byte wrote:Any follow up?

Haven't played again since then. I'll post when I have.

This should be a good matchup for you. IG don't really like hordes of FnP/FC MEQ's who fly at them 12" a turn.

At 1500pts you can fit in:

Librarian, jumppack, Shield, Blood lance 125

Priest, jumppack 75
Priest, jumppack 75

(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235

= 1450

50pts left over, 3 infernus pistols or whatever.

Plonk that down, and just rush him. Not many IG lists can kill that many assault marines before they multicharge their parking lot and rip it to pieces.

So, here's a battle report. Basically, this is more or less a typical game:

My Force: 1k
HQ
* Librarian (Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius) w/Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack
Elites
* Sanguinary Guard w/Chapter Banner, 1 Powerfist
* 2 Sanguinary Priests w/Bolt Pistols, Jump Packs
Troops
* 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Powerfist
* 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Powerfist

His Force: 1k
HQ
* CCS w/4 plasma in a Chimera ML/HF
Troops
* Veterans w/3 meltaguns in a Chimera ML/HF, Autocannon
* Veterans w/3 meltaguns in a Chimera ML/HF, Autocannon
Fast Attack
* Vendetta
Heavy Support
* Leman Russ Executioner w/lascannon
* Manticore w/HB

Deployment Style: Spearpoint
Mission: Seize Ground

Terrain

We finally got a good mix of terrain and open space. One short edge had a row of bunkers, the other had some ruins. There was a river running along the bunkers, crossed by a road and a bridge

Deployment

Jon won initiative and put his objective at the edge of his quarter, in the open, at the edge of the road. I placed mine in a ruin in the back of my quarter.

Of course, Jon deployed turtled up in his quarter. Equally of course, I didn’t deploy anything. Then I seized the initiative.

Round One

My…

I didn’t do anything.

Jon’s Movement

Jon moved his vendetta flat out towards my objective.

Round Two

My Movement

I rolled well and everything dropped out of the sky. I placed one full assault squad right up in the vendetta’s nose and scattered, but only a little. The sanguinary guard dropped a little behind the assault squad, scattering so that one landed in a ruin and died of dangerous terrain. I divided the other assault squad and deployed them behind some bunkers and behind the bridge nearby. The assault squad nearer to Jon’s tanks took both meltaguns, the power fist, and the sanguinary priest while the other one took just ordinary marines.

My Shooting

The assault squad near the vendetta slammed two melta shots into its side armor and… after cover saves, blew off one of its guns. The librarian opted to remove himself from the sanguinary guard squad and used the Blood Lance, which failed thanks to cover saves.

The rest of my troops ran. The assault marines all attempted to situate themselves to better hide from the tanks they were trying to sneak up one, while the sanguinary guard ran into the same terrain that had claimed the life of one of their buddies.

Jon’s Movement

Tanks all rolled up on my assault marines. The vendetta rotated to bring its remaining guns around to point at my marines.

Jon’s Shooting

Between plasma cannons, lascannons, and a flamer (actually, I don’t think the flamer did anything), Jon killed the nearby marines. The vendetta blew away my librarian.

And then, the manticore rolled three direct hits in a row, dealing eight wounds to the large assault squad on the far side of the table.

Round Three

My Movement

The sanguinary guard moved through cover. The remaining half an assault squad near Jon’s tanks ran for it to hide in the nearest bunker, with the hope of later jumping out to claim – or at least contest – the nearby objective.

My Shooting

The two remaining melta marines of what was once an enormous undivided assault squad took down the vendetta.

That’s about it.

Jon’s Movement

Jon repositioned his tanks slightly, beginning the long process of rolling some towards my objective, some towards the marines hiding in a bunker near his own objective.

Jon’s Shooting

The chimera’s weaponry managed to kill one sanguinary guardsman, while the manticore’s shots all scattered wide or failed to penetrate their artificer armor.

Round Four

My Movement

What remained of my once-proud individed assault squad jump-packed over the ruin that held my objective so that they could hide behind it and still claim that objective.

My Shooting and Assault

Nothing

Jon’s…

At this point, we ran out of time and decided to call the game. With my forces in tatters and Jon only one vendetta down, it didn’t seem very likely that I would be able to manage even a tie.

And here's a battle report for the second game of the night.

My Force: 1k
HQ
* Librarian (Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius) w/Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack
Elites
* Sanguinary Guard w/Chapter Banner, 1 Powerfist
* 2 Sanguinary Priests w/Bolt Pistols, Jump Packs
Troops
* 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Powerfist
* 10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Powerfist

His Force: 1k

HQ
* CCS w/4 plasma in a Chimera ML/HF
Troops
* Veterans w/3 meltaguns in a Chimera ML/HF, Autocannon
* Veterans w/3 meltaguns in a Chimera ML/HF, Autocannon
Heavy Support
* Leman Russ Executioner w/lascannon
* Manticore w/HB
* Vendetta

Deployment Style: Spearpoint
Mission: Seize Ground

Terrain

The board was largely open, with some scattered ruins, a hill with rocks on either end, and a forested hill. One third of the board was full of more dense terrain, separated from the rest of the board by a fence.

Deployment

John won the roll-off and opted to go second. As usual, he deployed turtled up in a corner of the heavily covered area, while I didn’t deploy anything.

Round One

None of my dudes are on the table, so nothing happens.

Round Two

My Movement

My sanguinary guard and one of my assault squads arrive. I deploy them into the shadow of a ruin on the open end of the table. During my shooting phase, I run everything into the cover of one of the ruins.

John’s Movement

John adjusts his position slightly, purely in order to prevent me from getting auto-hits when (if) I assault. John does this every turn, and I won’t bother to mention it from here on out.

John’s Shooting

The Manticore shoots, killing two assault marines. The veterans in their chimera shoot at the sanguinary guard, but the artificer armor saves the day.

Round Three

My Movement

My final squad drops, with minimal scatter, behind a forest on a hill. The rest of my forces begin attempting to leap-frog through terrain to reach John’s forces. I continue on to run everything in my shooting phase. Unfortunately, the table setup leaves about two thirds of my forces fully exposed…

John’s Shooting

John has a fairly successful round of shooting: the vendetta fires its lascannons at my sanguinary guard and kills two, the leman russ fires a plasma cannon at one of the assault squads and kills five, and the manticore shoots at the same assault squad killing two.

Further shooting happens, but is ineffective.

Round Four

My Movement

My marines continue to close, running in the shooting phase (except for the squad moving through the hilltop forest, who I don’t want to close too fast). Everyone is in cover, or behind something and hanging out with a librarian who grants cover.

John’s Movement

This time, John’s tanks move substantively. They close in ominously.

John’s Shooting

John’s flamers do nothing, the meltas kill three, and the manticore only manages to kill one of the assault marines in cover. The plasma cannons are the winner of this round and kill many, many marines, nearly wiping out the squad poised to assault next round.

Round Five

My Movement

Two of my squads move into position. The third flubs its roll to move through cover and hangs back.

My Shooting

After an entire game of leapfrogging through terrain, my librarian is finally in position. He powers up his psychic self, glares at the tanks, and calls upon the Blood Lance. Then he rolls 4 1 1 1. Seven inches. Not enough to hit even a single tank.

Suck.

My meltagun immobilizes the nearest tank.

My Assault

My marines assault the nearest tank. The sergeant misses, but the melta marine manages to shake the tank with his chainsword.

John’s Movement

John’s tanks close in more.

John’s Shooting

The vendetta kills one of the two marines who failed to assault the tank. The last remaining marine fails his morale check and falls back halfway across the freaking board. One tank’s plasmaguns out of the tank put a wound on the librarian, and the other’s wipes him and the guard off the board.

Round Six

My Movement

All I’ve got left now is one sergeant and most of an assault squad. I charge forward.

My Shooting

Meltaguns immobilize the nearest tank.

My Assault

The sergeant’s power fist cracks the chimera, earning me my first and only kill point of the evening. Unfortunately, there’s no way for me to get into an assault with the soldiers inside, leaving my marines in the open for shooting.

John’s Shooting

The surviving tanks and soldiers shoot up my marines, wiping them off the board.

And then the game ends.

Conclusions

In this game, I tried a new strategy – dropping further away from John’s tanks and attempting to close by leaping through terrain. This strategy seems to have failed. Since the alternative strategy of dropping up John’s nose also failed to produce a competitive game, I find myself totally stumped. As far as I can tell IG Tanks > BA Descent of Angels. No matter how I play it, John can field an enormous amount of plasma and melta, completely ignoring all of my defensive advantages (3+ armor saves and feel no pain).

I’ll post another battle report later with the results of the alternate strategy, but as I wrote, I’ve tried it before, and I didn’t find it any more effective.

Right now, I’m pretty stumped – and honestly pretty frustrated and at the point of wanting to drop either Blood Angels as an army (yeah right, and do what? Go back to my Tau?) or Descent of Angels as a strategy and do something more conventional and more boring, like assault squads and sanguinary priests in razorbacks. I guess I could still

Im sorry that your opponent has set his army up like this. am I correct in assuming that e is your primary opponnent and that you rarely play against other people? This may not be true, but I'm concerned that your opponent had the benefit of building his army based on what he knew was in your army.
For one thing, you dont have armor to protect you, this is a disadvantage any way you ook at it, but particularly if he is going to be using a ton of plasma guns against you. and you having so few bodies. His army is actualy pretty well rounded, but definetly favors marine killing over hordes or tanks.

here is a question, with all the plasma he has, are you getting much use out of your sanguinary gaurd? they dont have an invulnerable save, and I imagine he is perfectly happy for you to bring a hugely expensive squad which dies just as easily to his primary weapon as a normal 5 man tactical squad.
Also, again considering his plasma, are you really getting much use from the priests? their furious charge is awesome, but I bet you rarely get to make feel no pain saves.

why hasnt anyone suggested a baal predator? you need to hit his side armor, and fitting one with an assault cannon would be a great way to flank him, and hit his weak side armor. Stay away from his melta guns, but plasma will have a tough time hurting you. I'd also consider 2 multi-melta attack bikes for a total of 100 points (seperatee squads). They will get a 3+ cover save for turbo boosting, could take advantage of line of sight cover, and would have a decent chance of taking out those three vehicles causing you all the trouble.

Target priority is crucial for you (im sure you know). seperating into squads of five with 1 melta each might increase your chances of landing next to his leman russ and getting a successful shot off. The manticore can be scary, but doesnt pierce your armor. and while the manticore and the vendetta are around, don't detach your librarian.

I wish it were not so, but an all marine army (even moving fast with jetpacks) is still pretty weak without protection from transports. but Id raher you keep trying than give into buying vehicles.

Always try to keep Independent characters in a unit, so they are harder to kill outright. I think his mech list with what you have will be hard to beat with what you have, if he is not moving toward your objective, consider devestator squads and starting guys on the board or investing in vehicles and drop those, Landraider with some assault termies would help. Cheers

Two words: scout bikes

Scout bikes have the homers yes, but they also have infiltrate and scout. If you go first, infiltrate, turboboost. Then on your first turn, move 12 and mutlicharge a bunch of static vehicles. If he puts all his stuff in reserve, even better, since he now comes on piecemeal.

If you go 2nd, outflank or just plain turboboost.

Buy your sergeants meltabombs. You can buy the combi-melta, but I don't like it on scout bikes (i want them to multicharge, not drive up and take a potshot at a tank)

Note: Pure Doa can't hang..if we're talking tournament level craziness, you need to add more long range support.

I just really wouldn't deepstrike anything.

Take this list, for example:

Librarian, jumppack, Shield, Lance 125

Priest, jumppack, combimelta 85
Priest, jumppack, combimelta 85

(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235

= 1000

Just deploy at max coherency range so that blasts won't hit many of your guys (small blasts will hit 1 max and large blasts 3, with scatters they can possibly get 1 more). Rush him as fast as you can, and just tear him to pieces. He's got nothing that will be able to kill 30 FnP marines in the 2, max 3 turns it takes for you to reach him.

Jabbdo wrote:I just really wouldn't deepstrike anything.

Take this list, for example:

Librarian, jumppack, Shield, Lance 125

Priest, jumppack, combimelta 85
Priest, jumppack, combimelta 85

(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235
(10) Assault squad, 2x melta, PF 235

= 1000

Just deploy at max coherency range so that blasts won't hit many of your guys (small blasts will hit 1 max and large blasts 3, with scatters they can possibly get 1 more). Rush him as fast as you can, and just tear him to pieces. He's got nothing that will be able to kill 30 FnP marines in the 2, max 3 turns it takes for you to reach him.

Somehow I feel adding 5 more bodies and 2 more meltaguns won't vastly change the outcome. If the guard can kill 23 3+ saves and 5 2+ saves then 33 3+ saves and two more meltaguns seem unlikely to vastly improve the armies chances.

No surprise that they're able to kill the BA army if he's DSing them. They're in perfect formation to get templated to death if they shoot their meltas, and if they run they don't do jack gak to the IG player on the turn they drop, meaning they just get shot up. Deploying means everything arrives at the same time, and you're usually already in assault range on t2 anyways.

Manticore can't move than shoot. LRE can only fire one sponson with the turret after moving. Artificer armour doesn't allow for a save vs AP1.

Powergloves vs IG are useless(wasted points). Save the points and use melta bombs.

Why are you chainswording vehicles? Use krak grenades.

You haven't heeded any of the advice yet in this thread. You still have essentially the same list that you first posted.

1000 pts is a little low points value for S. guard. This had been mentioned a few times already.

I suggest you take one dual multi melta speeder that dedicates to taking out the LRE. You have saves vs the manticore and can be secondary. Deep strike it and dual blast it.

Shoot your melta guns, even at 6-10" its 8+d6 vs chimeras 12 front armor. Why are you running for one PF per squad?

Try the list someone posted earlier with 5x10 assault marines.

Right now, I’m pretty stumped – and honestly pretty frustrated and at the point of wanting to drop either Blood Angels as an army (yeah right, and do what? Go back to my Tau?) or Descent of Angels as a strategy and do something more conventional and more boring, like assault squads and sanguinary priests in razorbacks. I guess I could still

And broadsides will make a mockery of a parking lot.