Feel no pain and Rage rules...

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**usmcmidn**

How does feel no pain work on a model that does not get an armor save? Do they get to roll a 4+ still or... ?

If a unit has rage and I place them behind a building out of sight with enemies do they still have to rush forward? The rules say enemy in sight... What if there is no enemy in sight? Can I just have them chill there?

**Lordhat**

usmcmidn wrote:How does feel no pain work on a model that does not get an armor save? Do they get to roll a 4+ still or... ?

FNP works as long as the wound would have allowed a save to be taken; that the model in question doesn't have an armor save to begin with is irrelevant.

If a unit has rage and I place them behind a building out of sight with enemies do they still have to rush forward? The rules say enemy in sight... What if there is no enemy in sight? Can I just have them chill there?

Here, you have answered your own question. (Yes it really is that simple

)

**usmcmidn**

Ok well what about an AP5 weapon...

Lets say a bolter were to hit my model... Would I get a FNP save?

What about an AP3? AP2? AP1?

Or does this only rly work against weapons that are AP- and regular close combat attacks?

**somerandomdude**

Can any model take an armor save? If yes, then every model with FNP can use FNP against the wound.

The rulebook entry for FNP specifies what does not allow FNP. Note that everything in that list would bypass every armor save in the game. AP5 is not in that list, as there are models in the game that can make an armor save versus a wound caused by an AP5 weapon.

**usmcmidn**

IC... So just to clarify...

I have models that have FNP with no armor save at all but i have one model with 3+ armor... I get lit up by bolters... I get my 4+ FNP save...

Now I get shot AP 3, 2 or 1 weapons I do not get it?

Im sry its late and I feel that the rule is extremely vague and confusing. At least it is for me.

Just re read it...

So AP 1 or 2 weapons no... Or double strength... basically there are more rules regarding perils and dreads but for another day...

**Lordhat**

To be clear:

FNP is negated by:
1. Wounds with a strength equal to double the unmodified toughness of the model.
2. Wounds that never allow an armor save under ANY circumstance. I.E. Power Weapons, Ap1, AP2, wounds from MCs, failed dangerous terrain tests, etc. If at any conceivable time, under any conceivable circumstance, a model could take an armor save against a given wound, that wound does not negate FNP (unless it's S is equal to the model's toughness x2, as in #1 above).

**DeathReaper**

usmcmidn wrote:Ok well what about an AP5 weapon...

Lets say a bolter were to hit my model... Would I get a FNP save?

What about an AP3? AP2? AP1?

Or does this only rly work against weapons that are AP- and regular close combat attacks?

Basically FNP boils down to these two questions:

Does the attack cause Instant Death?

If the answer is yes, you can not roll for FNP, if no the move to question 2:

Can a model with a 2+ armor save take their armor save against the wound?

If the answer is yes, you can roll for FNP.
if no then you can not roll for FNP.

**usmcmidn**

Cool thx guys!

**Nungunz**

-sigh- this again. Might as well write the list out.

Things that Ignore FnP:

1) AP1 or AP2 Weapons/Powers
2) Power Weapons
3) Weapons/Powers that always ignore armor saves
4) Weapons/Powers that cause instant death
5) Weapons/Powers that do not cause wounds (JotWW, Last Laugh, Sweeping Advance, etc)
6) Failing Dangerous Terrain Tests

Might be more to add to that, but I think that covers almost all of it.

**Grots R OP**

Nungunz wrote:-sigh- this again. Might as well write the list out.

Things that Ignore FnP:

1) AP1 or AP2 Weapons/Powers
2) Power Weapons
3) Weapons/Powers that always ignore armor saves
4) Weapons/Powers that cause instant death
5) Weapons/Powers that do not cause wounds (JotWW, Last Laugh, Sweeping Advance, etc)
6) Failing Dangerous Terrain Tests

Might be more to add to that, but I think that covers almost all of it.

This should be a forum sticky. FNP is so damn confusing at first and so many people do not know how it works. This is a really helpful list.

**DeathReaper**

My two question system is easier to remember :-)

But I agree with you on the forum sticky, so many people have questions about FNP.

**juraigamer**

Grots R OP wrote:
Nungunz wrote:-sigh- this again. Might as well write the list out.

Things that Ignore FnP:

1) AP1 or AP2 Weapons/Powers
2) Power Weapons
3) Weapons/Powers that always ignore armor saves
4) Weapons/Powers that cause instant death
5) Weapons/Powers that do not cause wounds (JotWW, Last Laugh, Sweeping Advance, etc)
6) Failing Dangerous Terrain Tests

Might be more to add to that, but I think that covers almost all of it.

This should be a forum sticky. FNP is so damn confusing at first and so many people do not know how it works. This is a really helpful list.

Nah, this question gets asked enough, good for increasing forum post count.

**Steelmage99**

I just don't understand why this question keeps popping up.

Just like wound allocation, the rules are perfectly clear.
One just have to read them, and I mean really read them, instead of skimming and guessing at the intent.

Both wound allocation and FNP works fast and easy in in-game situations.

**leohart**

Interesting, then I must have been cheating since I didn't allowed a FNP to be taken against Flame Storm Cannon (Str6 AP3)

**nosferatu1001**

Yep. It ignores AN armour save, not ANY armour save. If they were T3 then they wouldnt get FNP

**DeathReaper**

It is simple, print this flowchart and you will understand FNP.

**sudojoe**

what if you lose you armor due to entropic strike? where does that put you on this thing? Feel no pain from the scarab nibbling your arm seems convincing from fluff anyway.

**kirsanth**

sudojoe wrote:what if you lose you armor due to entropic strike?

See above.

**rigeld2**

sudojoe wrote:what if you lose you armor due to entropic strike? where does that put you on this thing? Feel no pain from the scarab nibbling your arm seems convincing from fluff anyway.

If you're asking if a FNPed entropic wound still removes your armor save, there was a long thread about that, with no consensus. INAT seems to imply that you don't lose your save, but that's not RAW.

If you're asking if you still get to FNP after you lose your save to entropic strike, see the chart - it doesn't change.

**DeathReaper**

rigeld2 wrote:If you're asking if you still get to FNP after you lose your save to entropic strike, see the chart - it doesn't change.

This is 100% Correct.

**XC18**

Hi,

what about Force Weapon ?
I can't remember if they ignore armor , but they can ID without being 2xStr : so ... do they still qualify as "ignore-FNP" hit ?

**foolishmortal**

p75 BRB
"This ability cannot be used against wounds from weapons that inflict instant death (by having a high enough Strength or a special rule to that effect; even if the model is an eternal warrior)"

**DeathReaper**

XC18 wrote:Hi,
what about Force Weapon ?
I can't remember if they ignore armor , but they can ID without being 2xStr : so ... do they still qualify as "ignore-FNP" hit ?

Look at the flow chart.

Does the attack cause Instant Death?

If yes go to...

**Happyjew**

Force weapons are power weapons, so the ID ability doesn't matter.

**sfshilo**

Flow Charts 4TW, GW should take this and run with it in 6th.

**DeathReaper**

Happyjew wrote:Force weapons are power weapons, so the ID ability doesn't matter.

That was not the point.

I was answering the question:

If something causes ID without being 2xStr do they still qualify as "ignore-FNP" hit?

Just look at the flow chart, its not tough to understand.

**Happyjew**

And I was referencing the "I can't remember if they ignore armor" bit.

And just to prevent it, and please, please, PLEASE do not go off on this tangent.

There has been debates on whether things such as the Hexrifle would allow FNP/Hexrifle toughness test.

**DeathReaper**

Happyjew wrote:And I was referencing the "I can't remember if they ignore armor" bit.

Force Weapons are explicitly defined on Page 50 BRB.

**sudojoe**

kirsanth wrote:
sudojoe wrote:what if you lose you armor due to entropic strike?
See above.

so... according to the chart, none of my plague daemons should ever be allowed to make a FnP save?

**nosferatu1001**

No. Not at all. Did you even read the chart? Note it is can A model with a 2+ save...

Sigh