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Here is my first Chaos Space Marine army list. Please comment with thoughts.

HQ Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Slaanesh,
Lash of Submission,
Gift of Chaos,
Familiar

1 Chaos Lord (For Greater Daemon)

1 Greater Daemon

Chaos Dreadnought
Missile Launcher (Replaced CCW),
CCW With Flamer

Vehicle Chaos Rhino
Extra Armor,
Daemonoic Possession,
Havoc Launcher
X2

Khorne Berzerkers
Skull Champion
8 total

Khorne Berzerkers
Skull Champion
8 total

Lesser Daemons
10 in troop

Lesser Daemons
10 in troop

Obliterator 1(in squad)

Obliterator 1(in squad)

Obliterator 1(in squad)

Dr. What wrote:Here is my first Chaos Space Marine army list. Please comment with thoughts.

HQ Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Slaanesh,
Lash of Submission,
Gift of Chaos,
Familiar

1 Chaos Lord (For Greater Daemon)

Seems kind of a waste to take him. I'd just get more champs.

1 Greater Daemon

Chaos Dreadnought
Missile Launcher (Replaced CCW),
CCW With Flamer

Vehicle Chaos Rhino
Extra Armor,
Daemonoic Possession,
Havoc Launcher
X2

Don't take Extra Armor AND dp. In fact, I wouldn't take either on your basic troop vehicles. That'll save you a lot of points. Probably Havocs too. 50 points each rhino is a lot.

Khorne Berzerkers
Skull Champion
8 total

Khorne Berzerkers
Skull Champion
8 total

Berzerkers are cool but you need some melta and unfortunately they don't get it for you. If you're loving Khorne, go with 5xCSM with Mark of Khorne, Melta and a Champion. (130+rhino 35) You need the icons for your Lesser Daemons.
You could get 3 of these 5 man squads for the price of your Berserkers, Lord and Rhino upgrades (with a little left over for additional models or Power Weapons, etc).

Lesser Daemons
10 in troop

Lesser Daemons
10 in troop

Obliterator 1(in squad)

Obliterator 1(in squad)

Obliterator 1(in squad)

I might chop the Daemons down a bit if you need to fudge an upgrade, but they can be useful.

Saw your request in the SoB thread. I am not a Chaos expert, but have a bit of experience.

Well, I'm mostly fighting Tau...So, I figure that by maxing the defense of the rhinos, loading 1 squad of beserkers in each, put the CL in one, and the CS in the other...When I run them up there, all of the daemons come and help butcher. The obliterators pick off any escaping units or vehicles, then the rhinos can tank shock any strays right off of the table...

Dr. What wrote:Well, I'm mostly fighting Tau...So, I figure that by maxing the defense of the rhinos, loading 1 squad of beserkers in each, put the CL in one, and the CS in the other...When I run them up there, all of the daemons come and help butcher. The obliterators pick off any escaping units or vehicles, then the rhinos can tank shock any strays right off of the table...

The problem is that 50 points of upgrades doesn't make a rhino 150% more effective even though it makes it 150% more expensive. With all of the long range guns he has, you don't want to hope he rolls a 1 or 2 on the damage table so you can use your gear.

For the most part though, I build lists around playing against everyone. You want a list that can stand against any army that sets up across the table from you. Makes you a better player to learn that way.

With the original list that you proposed, if I was the tau guy I would pick off your two rhinos and then JSJ and fly the opposite way because you don't have a lot of 'get across the table' oomph.

If you're looking for a couple good reads re: CSM, check out Mannahnin's threads:

Battle for Salvation: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/403073.page
Boston Brawl: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/380621.page
1850 Army list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/278640.page

He has a lot of experience with 40k and is the top chaos general in the country right now.

Thanks for the feedback...the main problem is that money is more of a restriction than points...

Dr. What wrote:Thanks for the feedback...the main problem is that money is more of a restriction than points...

Yep, that's often the way of it.

What do you have for models?

Currently: A dreadnought that I converted to Chaos...and a Balrog from LOTR that could easily be a Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon (Same base size and model structure).

I'd say drop the lord and greater daemon and instead get a winged daemon prince of your favourite god, although not a Khorne one.

This will save you points and will perform much better although will be a target on his lonesome.

Dreadnoughts are not great I'd go for a defiler if you want something big and nasty, he can run alongside the DP then as well if needed.

Rhinos don't need DP or havocs both a waste of points, I try and give mine combi meltas as they will get up close and personal if they are transporting berzerkers.

I'd give you skull champions power fists, always worth while for taking out dreads or vehicles.

Obliterates are good, to save money make these guys from the terminator kit with some GS.

I've not used lesser daemons so cant really give advice on them but as you have no icons i'd think about replacing them with something else that can take out vehicles like Plague Marines with ttwo melta's in a rhino

Always give you HQ melta bombs you never know when they will come in handy, I found out the hard way!

I hope that helps, for chaos I've found that everything needs to go in a rhino if it can.

I think I'll drop the rhinos, and just run at the enemy, that way, i'm saving points and i still have 3+ saves...not to mention cover, I do intend for a defiler, the 72" range is irresistable...I already have 16 beserkers, but with the fearless rule, it makese more sense to break them into 2 smaller squads...

Dr. What wrote:I think I'll drop the rhinos, and just run at the enemy, that way, i'm saving points and i still have 3+ saves...not to mention cover, I do intend for a defiler, the 72" range is irresistable...I already have 16 beserkers, but with the fearless rule, it makese more sense to break them into 2 smaller squads...

You can do that, but you are going to be in a lot of trouble.

Mechanized transportation is a big part of 5th ed. It protects you from everything and without it you are very vulnerable.

So...keep the Rhinos, but get rid of the extra armor

Add a defiler, with lascannons?

cut back on daemons, 10 at most (2 squads of 5)

replace an hq with a daemon prince?
OR add a named hero? if so, which one?

Dr. What wrote:So...keep the Rhinos, but get rid of the extra armor

Add a defiler, with lascannons?

cut back on daemons, 10 at most (2 squads of 5)

replace an hq with a daemon prince?
OR add a named hero? if so, which one?

And get rid of the daemonic possession on the rhinos. Defiler isn't a bad idea. If you're going for lash, a lash sorc and lash DP isn't bad at all. Get more oblits, defiler and/or vindicator to capitalize on template goodness.

Make sure to get plenty of core marines with rhinos to make up your army. You'll need 3-4 5 man squads at minimum.

Ok:
Chaos Sorcerer with lash (Get rid of Gift of Chaos?)

Daemon Prince with lash?

No greater daemon...

No vidicator :(

Land Raider instead of 2 rhinos?

3 oblits (as originally intended) or 2?

2 squads of Khorne Beserkers

Fill the rest with marines?

Dr. What wrote:Ok:
Chaos Sorcerer with lash (Get rid of Gift of Chaos?)

Daemon Prince with lash?

No greater daemon...

No vidicator :(

Land Raider instead of 2 rhinos?

3 oblits (as originally intended) or 2?

2 squads of Khorne Beserkers

Fill the rest with marines?

I would stick with the rhinos for now. If you're sticking with Khorn Berserkers, get combi-meltas for their rhinos and then do normal CSM with melta and a rhino (combi-melta) for any other troops. You could always convert your dread to a plasma cannon and get a defiler still.

Basically, from what you've said.

Walking Lash Sorc
Lash DP with Wings
2 Khorne Berserker squads in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)
2 CSM squads with Melta in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)
Defiler
2 x 1 Obliterators
Dread

Shouldn't be too bad.

Also, any chance anybody has any extra squads they'd be willing to trade? I don't have any 40k models, but I have a LOTR fellowship and a full set of goblins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
2 Khorne Berserker squads in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)
2 CSM squads with Melta in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)

4 Rhinos? Isn't that a little pricy?

Dr. What wrote:
4 Rhinos? Isn't that a little pricy?

Indeed. 40k is not a cheap game.

pretre wrote:
I would stick with the rhinos for now. If you're sticking with Khorn Berserkers, get combi-meltas for their rhinos and then do normal CSM with melta and a rhino (combi-melta) for any other troops. You could always convert your dread to a plasma cannon and get a defiler still.

Basically, from what you've said.

Walking Lash Sorc
Lash DP with Wings
2 Khorne Berserker squads in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)
2 CSM squads with Melta in Rhinos (Combi-Meltas)
Defiler
2 x 1 Obliterators
Dread

Shouldn't be too bad.

Yeah sounds quite good if that dread has plasma it will make it more worth while with the twin lash.

I'm tight on cash, probably for years to come...

Maybe only going 2 at maximum for the marines, then having the beserkers run, and using deep striking daemons to draw fire away?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm tight on cash, probably for years to come...

Maybe only going 2 at maximum for the marines, then having the beserkers run, and using deep striking daemons to draw fire away?

pretre wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
4 Rhinos? Isn't that a little pricy?

Indeed. 40k is not a cheap game.

Aye and chaos needs its rhinos, I have a box dedicated to tanks for my CSM I call it the tank garage lol

Currently with 6 rhinos and two vindicators and a LR on the way in the not too distant future.

If anything the berzerkers must have rhinos.

Dr. What wrote:I'm tight on cash, probably for years to come...

Maybe only going 2 at maximum for the marines, then having the beserkers run, and using deep striking daemons to draw fire away?

I'm going to be honest here. If you are tight on cash, then stop where you are. 40k is a very expensive hobby and even with the best planning you will need to buy more than your original plan. As well, there are rumors that the new chaos book is coming in June/July so you might need to buy more things then. Like I said, not a cheap hobby.

That being said, if you are determined to press forward, I would encourage you to look into trades and buying used on e-bay, craigslist and the dakka swap shop.

I'll try the swap shop, most of my army will be ebay...

Rethinking it, 4 rhinos might not be bad.

Thanks for the tips! I will look for some good deals on Rhinos, and I should be set with an army.

Thanks again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, the thought of a new Chaos Codex makes me mad, seeing as I just got mine a week ago.

Dr. What wrote:
However, the thought of a new Chaos Codex makes me mad, seeing as I just got mine a week ago.

Its not quite that bad your codex will still be valid when the new one comes out, the new one will be Chaos Legions so there will be two different Chaos codex's. Well that's what's going round on the rumour vine.

I will post a revised army in about an hour for review


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my revised army, 9 points to spare...

Daemon Prince
Wings,
MOS,
Lash of Slaanesh,
*Blissgiver (given with the mark)

Chaos Sorcerer
MOS,
Lash of Slaanesh

Dreadnought
Plasma Cannon

Khorne Beserkers
7 Normal, 1 Champion
X2

Chaos Space Marines
9 Normal, 1 Champion
Meltagun for 1
Champ has Meltabombs
X2

Rhino
Combi-Melta
X4

Obliterator
X2 (2 seperate squads)

Defiler

Looking good so far you don't get Blissgiver though with the mark just +1I, using your spare points i'd spend 5 to give the sorcerer melta bombs.

For the CSM units drop the champ (leaves 10 men) and melta bombs this gives you enough for a second melta gun and icon of chaos glory.

Woops, my mistake on the Blissgiver.

Will give the meltas to the sorcerer.

And will give the meltas and CG to the extra model. Thanks!

I will be having my first battle in March against some people.

I may PM you with the results.

PS, I will attempt to scratch build the rhinos, for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, got any special strategies for such an army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, got any special strategies for such an army?

Not bad. Let us know how it works out.

I really think you should get a second melta for your CSM squads, but other than that, it looks good.

Both have 2 meltas...should I put the sorcerer in a rhino? With the berzerks?

Dr. What wrote:Both have 2 meltas...should I put the sorcerer in a rhino? With the berzerks?

That's not a bad plan. He can get the berserkers in assault or bunch people up for shooting. I feel like the skull champs should have power fists too, but not sure if there are points anywhere.

Unfortunately, due to point issues, I lost the skull champs. :(

Daemon prince can't take blissgiver, btw.