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I'm very new to W40k so forgive me if this question is a little basic but for Ork boyz is it better to take Shootas or Slugas and Choppas?

I tend to run full 30 boy squads with a nob but my point is boyz have 2 attacks and are listed as having Sluggas and Choppas. Does that mean they have 3 attacks because of the close combat weapons or 2 because their profile is set up with the combat weapons included?

If I substitute the Shootas in do my boyz lose an attack?

Again, sorry if this is ridiculously basic but which combo would you run with?

The boy is 2+1 = 3 attacks when setup with Sluggas and Choppas. The slugga gives an extra attack because it is considered a pistol. If they are the unit assaulting another then they will have 4 each.

If the boy armed with a shoota they only have the boyz base 2 attacks unless they are the assaulting unit when in hand to hand. In that instance they will have 3 attacks.

As to which one is better that is completely based upon preference. I would rather have the shoota so all my boys are setup this way because I would rather have the option of standing and launching 60 shoota attaks before assaulting. Really, it won't matter.....if you are running 30 boys you will have plenty of attacks either way. However, there are many strong adovates for each setup.

Rule of thumb is, if the boyz are in a trukk or BW, then sluggas, as they are mainly just hitching a ride strait into close combat. And if on foot, then shootas. PErsonally I like shootas, and run them pretty much regardless

KingCracker is pretty much correct. I always use shootas as they are a fire support and have a big mek with Kustom Force Field. They march forward blasting away and getting the shield cover save to take objectives. They can also run in and countercharge if need be. For the most part, I find shootas more versatile so I prefer them, however if you are going to be exclusively using your boyz for melee, then that extra slugga attack is absolutely devastating. One attack may not seem like a lot but add +1 x 30 is a **** ton of attacks haha.

-WAAGH!

Only if the unit states the bonus attacks for two weapons are listed do you not need to add it into the profile. Ork boyz have a standard 2 attacks, 3 if the take slugga choppa.

I always run with slugga/choppa. 4 attacks on the charge is hard to resist.

Shooting at your enemy can deny you the charge, orks want to charge.

I find that Shootas on foot is the main stay for any foot slog army. But I'm different, I run half and half so I can still bring the hurt when it comes to CC and bring the pain when it comes to shooting. Mhmmm 63 shots from one squad.....

I run a trukk army, and honestly... you need Shootaz.

Sluggaz and trukkz are fun, but there are millions of tactical situations in which its far better to shoot. Orks are pretty good at CC, but there are a LOT of troops which are WAY better at CC. Throwing sluggaz at a deathstar is not an efficient way to kill it.

My advice would be to take at least 2, 20 strong mobz of shootaz. The best way to kill things is to force them to take saves. Just pile on the shots. A unit like lightning claw terminators has to be killed from range.

Shootaz are quite a bit better than sluggaz for another reason. Initiative. Its way better to shoot on the way in, kill 2-3 models, lose 3-4 orks to the opponent striking first, kill the rest; than to kill 1-2 models, lose 4-6 orks, kill the rest.

Sluggaz are better for killing things that AREN'T good at close combat.

I tend to go 50/50 with both because I'm indecisive like that I guess, feel they both have their uses and if you've got them both there you can pick and choose.

when i played 40k my basic setup was 3x30 shoota boyz with 3 big shootas each and a PK nob. it seemed to work out well.

Slugga boyz are a 1/3 more effective in combat, however less then half as effective at range if you count in shoota boyz extra range. Also count in versitality....and remember 3 attacks on the charge each is still a lot of attacks.

If your boyz arn't ganna get to shoot - or be close enough that the range difference won't matter i.e. they are in battlewagons then choppahs might be better suited.

However sluggas are cheaper if you buy assault on black reach boyz from ebay.

If your getting sluggas there's always someone here on dakka trying to get rid of AoBR Boyz!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I agree, I was using a modified aobrork army 500 and 750 pts and the sluggaboyz just didn't do a whole hell of alot, I'm working on converting and resupplying to shootaz, will keep the sluggaz forwhen I get trukk or BW

I am sure OP is more confused now, but this is such a great ork debate. I personally bring 2 packs of shootas to one pack of choppas. I like to put the shootas up front and get them in range asap. I also always recommend 2 big shootas in a 20 pack of shootas. big shoota is a great upgrade for 5 points. 3 str 5 shots at 36" range for 5 points, can't beat it. I would buy ten of them if I could. behind the shootas I like a 30 pack of choppas. This basically guarantees me the charge cept for deepstrikers/out flankers. I like to have 30 in this situation as well since I lose furious charge. Shootas I think are better for holding an objective/flanking/support. choppas in trukks, if you want something dead send two groups of 12 not just one trukk of 12. At low point games though, I definitely recommend only 20 packs of shootas with PK/Nob, because they are definitely more versatile. When you get into some of the higher points games,, the 30 pack of choppas is what you need.

of course all of this is determined by play style and preference, welcome to the Waaagh!

If you buy a boyz set you may as well go for shootas as AoBR provides cheap sluggas.

The difference between the two is actually quite small. After battles you will still be none the wiser as to which the best choice would have been.

I usually go for shootas but that is because I am wimp.

The extra shootas also seem nicer in the current play environment with lots of Grey Knights. You mostly don't want to assault Purifiers ever. Shooting them to death avoids you losing nearly half your unit before anyone even swings.

Mannahnin wrote:The extra shootas also seem nicer in the current play environment with lots of Grey Knights. You mostly don't want to assault Purifiers ever. Shooting them to death avoids you losing nearly half your unit before anyone even swings.

30 cyborked choppas w the mad dok will take care of those purifiers . Mad dok has his issues but vs Gk he is gold.

Oh, you can kill them, but it still sucks to lose 10+ Orks before you even get to swing.

Cleansing flame is one of those abilities, that should of been left out of the codex.

I just started running Shootas and they haven't done much for me over Sluggas. Probably due to my inexperience.

Proxy a mob of each in some test games before investing in Shootas. For your dollar or Pound, Sluggas are almost given away compared to Shootas. Also, never count out 20+ Slugga shots. It can still kill Termies, which is always a hoot!

BTW welcome to 40K. You already picked the best army in the game, so congrats on that!

you will normally lose less than 8 guys w cybork +FNP. More like 3-6. I agree w King Cracker though in that cleansing flame is BS.

if they would :

1. Turn it into a template-either large or the flamer template I am even fine with.
2. Not make the wounds count towards combat resolution.

then the ability would be fixed.

As is, it is completely frigging broken. The idea that 2 guys could assault 60 orks and do 30+ wounds to them is game breaking.

Everyone has some great points here on tactical advice and Grey Knight Cheese!! The thing to remember above all else.....it doesn't really matter in the end what kind of boy you bring as long as you bring a whole freaking crap ton of them!!!

Grots R OP wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The extra shootas also seem nicer in the current play environment with lots of Grey Knights. You mostly don't want to assault Purifiers ever. Shooting them to death avoids you losing nearly half your unit before anyone even swings.

30 cyborked choppas w the mad dok will take care of those purifiers . Mad dok has his issues but vs Gk he is gold.

30 cyborked choppas w Mad Dok costs 530 points.....just saying.

Seven diversified nobz are about 320, and will rip purifiers apart, be it two or ten.

juraigamer wrote:Only if the unit states the bonus attacks for two weapons are listed do you not need to add it into the profile. Ork boyz have a standard 2 attacks, 3 if the take slugga choppa.

I always run with slugga/choppa. 4 attacks on the charge is hard to resist.

Shooting at your enemy can deny you the charge, orks want to charge.

The boyz can also shoot their sluggas on the way in as well if they did not fleet (waaaaaagh)

labmouse42 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:Only if the unit states the bonus attacks for two weapons are listed do you not need to add it into the profile. Ork boyz have a standard 2 attacks, 3 if the take slugga choppa.

I always run with slugga/choppa. 4 attacks on the charge is hard to resist.

Shooting at your enemy can deny you the charge, orks want to charge.

The boyz can also shoot their sluggas on the way in as well if they did not fleet (waaaaaagh)

I may be misreading your point, but shootas can shoot and still charge in, since their weapons are assault weapons (as long as its not on the WAAGH! and you chose to run towards assault instead of shooting) Or did you mean that the volley of shootas can destroy the unit entirely before charging happens? If so, then it wouldnt really matter either way, because weather you shot the unit to death, or crushed them in the assault, your boyz will more then likely, still be in the open, and still be a fire magnet.

But this thread perfectly shows that either is a fine option as long as they are used correctly. Because the guys that swear by shootas, swear by shootas, and the guys that swear by sluggas, swear by sluggas.

KingCracker wrote:But this thread perfectly shows that either is a fine option as long as they are used correctly. Because the guys that swear by shootas, swear by shootas, and the guys that swear by sluggas, swear by sluggas.

This is a rather good summery, to be honest.

I personally run three units of Sluggas in their own rukks (looking to up that to four, as soon as I can), and have two large units of shootas on foot. They Shootas don't always see the thickest of action, but they firstly act as a fantastic tarpit to any potential surprises, and secondly provide a surprising moral killer for an opponent when they see that many orks on the table. The sluggas are the first wave, as it were. The trukks don't always survive, but if they do somehow all make it to their targets intact, their impact is quite potent, allowing the rest of my slower force to march up so that my second, third, and fourth wave can hit home - depending on the opponent's army and layout.

I have 2 units of slugga/choppas and 1 unit of shootas (all 3 are 30 "man" squads with 3 big shootas).

I like the pros and cons of each.

KingCracker wrote:I may be misreading your point, but shootas can shoot and still charge in, since their weapons are assault weapons (as long as its not on the WAAGH! and you chose to run towards assault instead of shooting)

Yes, shootas can fire on the way to assault as well. The comparison between the two is not a zero-sum game.

My point was simple this -- sluggas also can shoot some shots on the way into the fight. People equate the 2 shoota BS 2 shots as an extra CC attack on the charge. This is an accurate description, as the two shots have a 55% of scoring at least one hit, which is what boyz can expect to have on nearly all targets in assault (hitting 50% of the time).

However, the sluggas can also shoot their sluggas on the way into the assault. Sure, its not much, as you won't have your entire mob within 12", but from experience, its not uncommon to get 12 or so slugga shots into the equation. As mentioned, its not much, but its an often-overlooked value of the slugga boy.

KingCracker wrote:Or did you mean that the volley of shootas can destroy the unit entirely before charging happens?

That's a different point, and not one I was making. Shooting on the assault is often a tricky problem, especially when you run across a crafty marine player who knows how to use combat tactics.

For example, I often run a marine bike army, which are fairly weak in assault. I would not want to get them tied up in a unit of 20-30 boys with a PK nob, as the bikes would be lost. As the squad costs me 245 points, getting assaulted is a big problem. As I'm likely to be killing 2-3 regular boys per round, the chances of me being able to fall back out of assault are fairly small.

However, if I am shot on the way in, I can pull the 2 bullet catchers from the squad, then fall back 3d6" well out of assault range. As marines have 'as they shall know only ', they auto-rally 3" and then can shoot TL bolters to their liking.

Another common problem is when a clever player pulls the models closest to your boys away and then you boys are out of a 6" assault range.

However, in each of those situations (and 95% others you will see), the 20-30 boys can do the job even without those incoming shots, so a moot point. I guess the morale of the story is that ork boys are good.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The extra shootas also seem nicer in the current play environment with lots of Grey Knights. You mostly don't want to assault Purifiers ever. Shooting them to death avoids you losing nearly half your unit before anyone even swings.

30 cyborked choppas w the mad dok will take care of those purifiers . Mad dok has his issues but vs Gk he is gold.

30 cyborked choppas w Mad Dok costs 530 points.....just saying.

Yup I know, I find it worth it though at 2K points. I usually go 20 boyz at 1500. It honestly is the only thing I know that can stand up to purifiers boyz wise. If you talk to someone that plays purifiers, they really don't like FNP units. Figure a 10 pack of pallies+coteaz+GM has to be around 400 points. Granted I still think flame is nonsense, but FNP negates most of it.

Grots R OP wrote:

Yup I know, I find it worth it though at 2K points. I usually go 20 boyz at 1500. It honestly is the only thing I know that can stand up to purifiers boyz wise. If you talk to someone that plays purifiers, they really don't like FNP units. Figure a 10 pack of pallies+coteaz+GM has to be around 400 points. Granted I still think flame is nonsense, but FNP negates most of it.

There is that. Before Codex: GK I never considered cybork boyz and Grotsnik to be worth anything; too expensive, not choppy enough, they do give cover saves to things behind them but there are other ways of getting that. Now. . . well, they're still very situational, but they do actually have a viable use as Purifier insurance now. Cyborked boyz with Grotsnik will take 1/3 as many casualties from Cleansing Flame as regular boyz. Hmm . . .

It has more than a few drawbacks, your unit is no longer effectively scoring(i bring an extra grots unit). it is expensive yes. It works well behind a Kan wall though, instead of 2 groups of 20 you have one big monsterous group of 30+cybork.

1 bet 30 boyz + dok could multi assault charge two groups of 10 purifiers and do pretty well. Just keep dok away from hammers on the charge. Or better yet just put him at the back-he will never make it into combat on the charge so no enemies will be in base w him the first round.

Flame from 2 groups of purifiers = 60*.5 =30 wounds -cybork save = 20 wounds taken. After FNP = 10 wounds. (this raises a good question does cleansing flame even stack?)

Purifiers with hammer hand do 20 attacks, 5/6 wounds of which 3/4 go through cybork.

Then 15 boyz attack 20 Space marines w 4 attacks each.

They will kill 6-8 marines, nob kills 1-2, hammers kills 1-2 more boyz prolly.

30 orks down to 12-15 boys, gk down to 12-14 or so purifiers.

it's a tarpit at this point.

Also, remember if Dok is in contact w another IC like Coteaz or something w hammer then you are better going at initiative w the Urty Syringe.