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When I say horde, I mean trying to get as many bodies on the board. Is it possible? I think so. The aim of this post is to make horde lists that would be fun and maybe even "competitive" I know BA can do it really well. I saw a battle report with a BA horde list:

Libby, jp, Fear, Lance
2x priests, jp, melta bombs,
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile

about 1850pts i think, and it did really well. It takes advantage of the Libby's shield, and the priests FNP. I want to know if other SM armies could do it. I'm in the middle of making a1500 horde with grey hunters, sky claws, and long fangs. Feel free to post some SM horde lists and how you would use them on the table.

BT can do it, but its basicly black and white orks. Codex marines can't, because their troops are underwhelming. You can do it with wolves, but its strictly worse than their other options.

Libby, jp, Fear, Lance
2x priests, jp, melta bombs,
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile

Played against something almost identical at NOVA this past year. It is actually pretty good. Scaling up a second Libby and another Priest are nice. Something my opponent didn't do but that I would recommend is taking a non-jump Priest and placing it in the Devs. That would have given him resilience to things like Venoms (which ate them fast).

JGrand wrote:

Libby, jp, Fear, Lance
2x priests, jp, melta bombs,
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
10 Assault Marine, 2x melta, pf
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile
5 Devs, 4x missile

Played against something almost identical at NOVA this past year. It is actually pretty good. Scaling up a second Libby and another Priest are nice. Something my opponent didn't do but that I would recommend is taking a non-jump Priest and placing it in the Devs. That would have given him resilience to things like Venoms (which ate them fast).

yes I would love to face that army, so much love. run around eating red marines for breakfast lunch and dinner.


Its not a bad list, in fact i think it is a very good and fun list but it will have problems with some armies. Everyone does mech for a reason.

I've played a couple games using mass assault marines. They are great against mech armies, but falter against units with a lot power weapons. I find assault terminators compliments assault marines.

It's a fairly solid list and has beat me a couple times. Grey knights can do a similar all PA list with large Strike squads or large purifiers. Marching 50+ dudes across the table with psycannons blazing is a scary thing for a lot of opponents. Just watch out for tau and guard.

notabot187 wrote:BT can do it, but its basicly black and white orks. Codex marines can't, because their troops are underwhelming. You can do it with wolves, but its strictly worse than their other options.

Foot SW horde actually isn't bad. Tons of GH, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard with Cyclones make a nasty list.

Vanilla can actually do it a bit as well if you play a pedro or shrike list. It's not necessarily good...

Currently playing around with MEQ hordes myself, I've recently played quite a lot with foot wolves.

My current list looks like this at 1500pts:
Runepriest, jaws, lightning
5 Wolf Scouts, melta, WG, c-melta, powerfist
10 Grey Hunters, 2 melta, WG, termie, c-melta, powerfist, cyclone
10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma, WG, termie, c-plasma, powerfist
5 Grey Hunters, melta, WG, termie, c-melta, power sword
5 Grey Hunters, melta, WG, termie, c-melta, power sword
2 Thundercav, powerfist
6 Long Fangs, 5 missiles
6 Long Fangs, 5 missiles
6 Long Fangs, 5 missiles

It is very enjoyable to play with, and it works surprisingly well. I havn't gotten to play against many different types of lists yet, but it does very well against draigo-wing in all missions. I make extensive use of reserves to give me more tactical options. I'll be able to test it against a purifier MSU army this week, so looking forward to that challenge. I would think that these kinds of lists should do fairly well against MSU armies, but all that 2+ to wound shooting will certainly take its toll, and purifiers aren't pushovers in assault either. I do believe longfangs will win me the shooting war against AV11 razors and AV12 dreads, and then it will be up to the rest of the army to win against the purifiers.

Fast heavy hitters in assault seem to be the number one enemy of lists like this. If I'm up against dual raider with assault termies f.ex, I am certainly the underdog, and I will have to resort to unconventional tactics to win. A real thundercav-star will also be a major pain.

I've also looked at BA's, and have come up with very similar lists to the one above. I think it can work very well. BA's have much worse long range shooting than SW's, but they make up for it with great mobility. The list does have bad match-ups, but the devs + mobility of the rest of your army gives you options to play around those weaknesses.

I think this army-style is viable for at least BA, SW's and GK's. Possibly also for chaos and BT. DA and C:SM can't hang when it comes to MEQ hordes.

IMO, having quite a lot of firepower is needed with these armies. Your units aren't good enough at assaults to allow you to lean heavily on that, so you need firepower to give yourself options. Without being able to kill the enemy from afar (or through other means such as DS), you will always be obliged to run into the gauntlet of enemy fire, and you also need options to take out those units that you can't fight in cc.

I think a MEQ horde can be done efficiently by SW and GK in addition to BA. But those are Shooty hordes while BA is assaulty. Still think BA can do horde best since they are more mobile and resilent thanks to FNP.

The BA list does have a few bad match ups. For example Draigowing is very difficult to beat since when you try to melta paladins you get charged by them the next turn.

To OP: No Shield needed with pure infantry lists since its usually very easy to get cover. If you looked att the batrep there was one sqaud in the front giving all the others cover.

Vasara wrote:Draigowing is very difficult to beat since when you try to melta paladins you get charged by them the next turn.

So play smart? Paladins are super-slow. If they are in a full unit, they are super-resilient, but have horrible mobility, so just take out their support and play the mission.
If they are half or smaller units, they are much more vulnerable and they loose their firepower much faster. Focus missile-fire on one squad and then jump the remnants with as many meltas as possible when the opportunity arises. Repeat against the other squad.

Draigo-wing is one army MEQ-hordes do well against IMO. Draigo-wing has poor anti-MEQ firepower and is a slow army. If you play smart, it should be a decent match-up.


Armies like genestealer horde, thunderstar and death wing are larger threats to MEQ-hordes IMO.

I've tried the MEQ horde foot army with Black Templars a few times.

My buddy's IG army blasts if off the table. My other buddy's Eldar in their space elf buggies just play keep away.

I haven't tried it for a while.

My friend runs SW MEQ horde

basically its

wolf guard battle leader, frost blade X4
GH squad, power weapon, mark of wolfen, 2 meltaguns X4
attached wolf guard w/ termie armor and powerfist

+2 squads of wolf guard with max combiweapons in pods.

it isn't too bad, the squads are pretty vicious in cc but with the amount of upgrades he's tossing around he hasnt reached the critical mass of a real horde

Illumini wrote:

Vasara wrote:Draigowing is very difficult to beat since when you try to melta paladins you get charged by them the next turn.

So play smart? Paladins are super-slow. If they are in a full unit, they are super-resilient, but have horrible mobility, so just take out their support and play the mission.
If they are half or smaller units, they are much more vulnerable and they loose their firepower much faster. Focus missile-fire on one squad and then jump the remnants with as many meltas as possible when the opportunity arises. Repeat against the other squad.

Draigo-wing is one army MEQ-hordes do well against IMO. Draigo-wing has poor anti-MEQ firepower and is a slow army. If you play smart, it should be a decent match-up.


Armies like genestealer horde, thunderstar and death wing are larger threats to MEQ-hordes IMO.

Paladins are slow yes but very hard to remove form objectives. And ten paladins can control quite a few objectives. Dreadknights aren't slow but they can be killed with good counter assaults. And kill point missions...
You are right about the other bad match-ups although genes and termies are quite easy to the charge witch is the key against them.

I would love to face a MEQ horde army with my Tyranids. Not saying it'd be easy but I'm sure it could be an exciting game.

Chaos SM horde:

Fabius Bile
4x 20 Enhanced Chaos Space Marines w/mark of Tzeentch, las cannon, meltagun, champion w/ fist.

80 str 5 or 6 marines with 5+ invulns, fearless, and some punch with las, melta, bolters, and pistols. Not to mention the str 10 powerfists.

That's 4 squads. Yeah, 80 guys are impressive, but 4 squads? ouch.

CSM is about force concentration much more than SM is. CSM does better when it has fewer larger squads.

If all MEq is on the table, I was going to chip in a version of a khorne list I've been working on.

1850
Kharn

13 berzerkers, champ with fist
14 CSM, IoK, 2x melta, champ with fist
14 CSM, IoK, 2x melta, champ with fist
14 CSM, IoK, 2x melta, champ with fist

2x obliterators
2x obliterators
4x missile launcher havocs with IoCG

or something like that.

The problem with the CSM and C:SM lists is that you have no speed and only limited range on the majority of your guns if you move. I think necron immortals can also make a viable MEQ horde. Crypteks plug a lot of the holes and you can add lords and vielteks to cover your assault weakness and mobility issues. If I had a bunch of old school necrons laying around, I would try this. At least for fun.

Dok wrote:The problem with the CSM and C:SM lists is that you have no speed and only limited range on the majority of your guns if you move.

Do not take this as a personal attack, you just bring up a topic many people are ignorant of.

Knowing when to move a Marine and when to stand and shoot is the difference between people who think Tactical Marines suck and people who know they do not.

Foot lists of rapid fire type guys can and do win games. Nothing is slow in 40k on a standard table. You just have to move at the right times.

No offense taken. That is exactly what I was talking about.

I have to disagree with your statement that nothing is slow. Speed is relative in the game. It will be incredibly difficult to catch a DE or CE player with a bunch of footslogging marines when they can basically redeploy their army on any given turn.

HQ
WG battle leader, TW mount, wolfkin, frost weapon -155

Elites
WG (3) 2 PF, PW, melta bomb -109
Wolf scouts (5), 2 PW, 3 melta bombs -120 (WG, PW, melta bomb here)

Troops
Grey Hunters (10) 2 meltas, PF -180 (WG, PF here)
Grey Hunters (10) 2 meltas, PF -180 (WG, PF here)

Fast Attack
TW clavary (4) boltgun, pistol/ccw, pistol/ccw/melta bomb, pistol/frost weapon -230 (WG battle leader here)
Wolves (15) -120
Wolves (15) -120

Heavy Support
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140

---------- 1494

Wolves act as meat shields. Thunder wolves death star (avoid other death stars). long fang for support. Wolf scouts aim for support units (enemy long fangs, devs artillery) grey hunters have plenty of PF and meltas to scare off walkers and other troops(I hope).

DarknessEternal wrote:Knowing when to move a Marine and when to stand and shoot is the difference between people who think Tactical Marines suck and people who know they do not.

Foot lists of rapid fire type guys can and do win games. Nothing is slow in 40k on a standard table. You just have to move at the right times.

Quote for frikkin' truth.

The only thing I'd add is that with these kinds of lists, you really need to know how to use your small arm. I'd say that's also one of the big things that separate people who like power armor armies and those who can't figure out how to use them properly. If you're looking at CSM or C:SM and are judging it solely by the quality of its special units and upgrades, you're missing the point.

DarknessEternal wrote:Knowing when to move a Marine and when to stand and shoot is the difference between people who think Tactical Marines suck and people who know they do not.

Foot lists of rapid fire type guys can and do win games. Nothing is slow in 40k on a standard table. You just have to move at the right times.

While I agree with the last part of the quote, tactical marines still suck

Illumini wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Knowing when to move a Marine and when to stand and shoot is the difference between people who think Tactical Marines suck and people who know they do not.

Foot lists of rapid fire type guys can and do win games. Nothing is slow in 40k on a standard table. You just have to move at the right times.

While I agree with the last part of the quote, tactical marines still suck

Tacs aren't bad for troops, but troops generally suck, and marines cost too much. I don't feel bad when I play DE and get 4 warrior squads and 2 wyche squads. They are powerful units that don't cost much. When I buy even 3 full tac units I realize I have less firepower with those 3 units than I should for the points. Paying so many points for effectively 3 ML and 3 flamers is painful. I don't really count the bolter fire, because small arms don't really count for much. You notice it when its not there, but it really doesn't kill as much as the special and heavy weapon do. If tacs had the unit options that scouts have (being cc, shotguns, or snipers instead of bolters 24/7) I wouldn't dislike taking them so much.

As a result I've been taking mostly scouts as my troops, I've gotten good at keeping them alive (which is the reason why tacs don't completely suck, durability), and they have much more tactical flexibility than tacs do. And they don't really lose all that much fire power when you really think about it. 85 pts can get you a ML or HB and 4 guys. 170 gets you a ML and flamer and 8 space filling bolter holders. With the points saved I can splurge on filling up my FOC with firepower units like stern guard, dreads, preds, devs, ect.

notabot187 wrote:but troops generally suck,

I disagree. There are more armies with great troops than there are armies with all crappy troops. SW, GK; IG, BA, DA, CSM, Orks, DE to mention a few that have very good troop units.

The only troop-challenged armies seem to be: C:SM, BT, Eldar, Tau.

So troops can be great. Tactical marines are bad for their pts. At 14pts per guy, they would be great. At 16, they are bad.

notabot187 wrote:, but troops generally suck,

I'm not so sure about this either. Lets look at the following troops that are decent.
Orks : Boyz
GK : Purifiers/Strike Squads/Paladins
DA : Terminators
BA : Assault marines
SW : Grey Hunters
IG : Vet Squads

Now lets look at the armies with OK troop choices
DE : Warriors/Wytches
SoB : 10 woman sister squads
Necrons : Warriors
CSM : These range from OK to poor, but lets say OK.

Now lets look at armies that have poor troop choices
Tau : Fire Warriors
Eldar : Dire Avengers/Guardians
C:SM : Tac Marines (bike armies can be OK)

I don't know about daemons or nids to rate them fairly.
Looking at these choices, I see quite a few good choices available as troops. I just think that marines got the short end of the stick.

labmouse42 wrote:
Now lets look at armies that have poor troop choices
Tau : Fire Warriors
Eldar : Dire Avengers/Guardians
C:SM : Tac Marines (bike armies can be OK)

Now I just think you're gaslighting me. Tactical Marines in the same category of effectiveness as Guardians? That's asinine.

My main problem with labmouse42's argument in regards to all the MEQ style troops is that all of those 'good' troop choices are DIFFERENT than tacticals. They are basically tac marines + something or a substitute for tacs.

DA = terminators (duh they are better than tacs, they are an ELITES choice filling in for troops)

BA = assault marines (same but a fast attack choice)

SW = Grey Hunters. Basically a tactical marine that is also an assault marine w/o a jumppack and they also have a special countercharge rule (also probably one of the best troops in the game IMO).

Now, in my opinion, tacticals can prove to be very lackluster for 80% of the situations they are used in besides being a massive bullet sponge (especially now that there are so many cover saves being thrown around). As an Ork player I am basicaly undeterred by bolters due to cover. W/o cover however, bolters can obliterate anything with low armor values such as orks, some basic eldar, DE, IG etc. I think that if more people used troops as they are written in their book, then it wouldn't be such an issue, but it seems to me many of the troops heavy lists are simply people replacing their standard troops with elites or others but can go in a troop slot. I don't know whether GW intended this or not, but for the most part troops in general are just there to take objectives at the end and let the big boys do all the fighting (which I think is totally dumb but w/e).

In my opinion Orks are one of the only examples where their standard troops are an essential part of their army. W/o a decent number of boyz an ork player will lose. Boyz are effective for their points and do what they are supposed to do which is namely stand and soak up fire, capture objectives, and be the grunts of the army. However, they can also dish out quite a bit of pain if need be.

Personally, i just feel that a lot of troops in the game are very underwhelming for the fact that they are what is supposed to be most of your army...


sorry for the rant haha. just getting it all out there.

-VardenV2

Well both Tau and Eldar tend to stock up on thier MEQ mobs in the elites slots (Battlesuits and Wraithguard respectively) so I would agree their troops are lack luster,
even though the Eldar can still grab the Wraithguard as troops for a hefty price.

A little bit of history;

The Eldar have long set the star standard in the troops choices (the Guardian Defender with Warlock, conceal and scatter laser) for several editions now. The unit is
cheaplybought, has great damage potential, is flexible and decently survivable and all it takes is a little practice and some luck to use well!

It's not really suprising that today, the old star standard is looking weak compared to other standard troops as most 'basic' troops are wolves in sheep's clothing.
It's not the fault of the Eldar codex, which has often been look upon as decent and strong without high resilence on 'filler' units and has unblinkingly managed to keep pace
with newer codexes. Did you know that the now standard universal rules are/were mostly spawned from older versions of the Eldar codex? Eldar are the only codex that currently does not enjoy an Army-wide special rule (fleet? that'san universal rule now)-but most units in the army have many unique selections of special rules.

One can hope that the current edition doesn't see that all basic troopers become obsolete. Afterall, its not as much fun to beat on tanks all day nor sucide against other elitist
units. It's really the simple little guys that make the game worthwild and give the big guys that look and feel of awesome when they get into the fray.