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Can somebody tell me why it is that Salamanders dont use jump packs in their army lists ... I cant seem to find it

Nocturne has messed up gravity, making the use of Land Speeders and Bikes (not sure why bikes) difficult. Combined with their lower-than-normal reflexes, the Salamanders just put more emphasis on shooting people. They still have Assault Squads, Bikes, and Land Speeders though.

I've seen it mentioned that Salamanders have 'slower' reflexes than other Astartes(which to me, is BS fluff, if it's true). That, combined with the really funky gravity on Nocturne makes their fast attack approach minimal at best.

A better explanation might be that they prefer a 'hardier' approach to combat.

So that's my input.

For what it's worth I think that this mostly comes from the Codex: Armageddon release way back in third addition. This was the first time that the Salamanders got their own army list (before this they were just green space marines). If I recall correctly the limitation on jump packs and speeders was for two reasons. 1) as previously mentioned Nocturne has funky gravity which makes training with them difficult/impractical. 2) Salamanders are "slower" than other space marines and prefer a more methodical way of fighting (this was actually represented by giving them an initiative of 3).

This idea seems to have been mostly dropped from the fluff though, as far as I can tell.

*Note: I've not read the Salamanders BL books, so it may be more thoroughly explained in that series.

andain841 wrote:For what it's worth I think that this mostly comes from the Codex: Armageddon release way back in third addition. This was the first time that the Salamanders got their own army list (before this they were just green space marines). If I recall correctly the limitation on jump packs and speeders was for two reasons. 1) as previously mentioned Nocturne has funky gravity which makes training with them difficult/impractical. 2) Salamanders are "slower" than other space marines and prefer a more methodical way of fighting (this was actually represented by giving them an initiative of 3).

This idea seems to have been mostly dropped from the fluff though, as far as I can tell.

*Note: I've not read the Salamanders BL books, so it may be more thoroughly explained in that series.

Nope, nothing talks about it. And they easily fight on equal terms with any chaos marines so I don't think the speed bump is still in the current fluff.

Also, the ending is totaly awesome epic.

(giant huge ass spoiler about ending of the trilogy, not a joke, biggest spoiler possible for the tome of fire series)

seems like the fire guys would like jump packs... its not like they do a lot of fighting ON Nocturne, right?

I glad they phased out the lowered reflex fluff, it sort of makes them the bottom of the barrel if it's applied to their stats and choices of weapons. Saw a salamander army with a jump pack troop last Sunday. Got wiped out leaving a single guy retreating and then rushing back in to assualt a Orc biker squad all by his lone some but point is they can be used now so its not a issue! Yay!

Since were on the subject of salamander fluff, is their anything note worthy about the salamanders? I ask SM players and they just say they are green ultramarines for the most part then mention a HQ named Vulcan then the talk of twin linked flamers follows and being a CSM guy I just get lost.

I wouldn't exactly call them Green Ultramarines.

The do generally follow the Codex Astartes, with a slight change in Company structure (7 larger companies instead of the standard 10). As a side effect, this means that they have more veterans, yay!

They have a great love of forge work and artifice. Every Salamander has some skill as an armorsmith/weaponsmith, and their Techmarines are the best in the business. As a result their gear is top notch and always maintained at the highest levels. They also have a lot more terminator armor than most chapters.

They do love, as you mentioned, flamers and also thunder hammers. Once again, the whole "warrior blacksmith" think. Their big long term "side mission" is the recovery of the nine Artefacts of Vulkan. They appoint a single marine with great promise as Forgefather, who's duty is to lead this effort for the rest of his life.

I haven't seen it so much in the newer fluff, but it was stated in the past the the Salamanders are much more involved in the lives of the people of their world than most. While some marines are stationed at the fortress monastery on the moon of Prometheus, many also spend time among the people of Nocturne, serving as leaders and teachers. They are still objects of awe to these people of course, but not nearly as distant as most marines are to their mortal vassals.

RustyKnight wrote:Nocturne has messed up gravity, making the use of Land Speeders and Bikes (not sure why bikes) difficult.

In the case of bikes, it's because Nocturne has a lot of very dangerous terrain, making the use of bikes pretty risky.

Rex - Isha is right, of course. In game terms, they can take a special character who gives them twin-linked flamers and meltas, as well as master crafted thunder hammers.

Isha has most everything, but the thing I like about them most (and part of the reason I play them!) is that they view their primary duty as 'protectors of humanity' rather than 'warriors in service to the Emperor.' There aren't a lot of 'good' people in the 40k universe, but the Salamanders (usually) are.

Tears of Isha wrote:I wouldn't exactly call them Green Ultramarines.

The do generally follow the Codex Astartes, with a slight change in Company structure (7 larger companies instead of the standard 10). As a side effect, this means that they have more veterans, yay!

They have a great love of forge work and artifice. Every Salamander has some skill as an armorsmith/weaponsmith, and their Techmarines are the best in the business. As a result their gear is top notch and always maintained at the highest levels. They also have a lot more terminator armor than most chapters.

They do love, as you mentioned, flamers and also thunder hammers. Once again, the whole "warrior blacksmith" think. Their big long term "side mission" is the recovery of the nine Artefacts of Vulkan. They appoint a single marine with great promise as Forgefather, who's duty is to lead this effort for the rest of his life.

I haven't seen it so much in the newer fluff, but it was stated in the past the the Salamanders are much more involved in the lives of the people of their world than most. While some marines are stationed at the fortress monastery on the moon of Prometheus, many also spend time among the people of Nocturne, serving as leaders and teachers. They are still objects of awe to these people of course, but not nearly as distant as most marines are to their mortal vassals.

A lot of Salamander still actively know their parents. They also go out of their way to save civilians in crazy situations. The audio short Vulkans shield, has a thunderhawk going into a city that will be getting an orbital bombardment in 6 minutes, just to evac a school.

Soladrin wrote:A lot of Salamander still actively know their parents. They also go out of their way to save civilians in crazy situations. The audio short Vulkans shield, has a thunderhawk going into a city that will be getting an orbital bombardment in 6 minutes, just to evac a school.

There's a blurb in either the current or previous C:SM that mentions a Salamander coming to blows with another loyalist astartes over shelling innocents.

What books deal with the salamanders? I read the tome of fire trilogy and would like some more. Do they, or Vulkan (primarch) appear in the horus heresy at all? Soladrin mentioned a "audio short" about them. are there more like that? and if so where could i find them?

I'm new to the 40k universe but so far i've been enjoying the fluff, so if someone could point me in the right direction that'd be great.

Wow thanks for the answers! I'm new to 40k and funny thing is the only space marines iv played against are a army of salamanders. Now I think they are my favorite SM chapter after all I have heard here =D

Do the salamander deal with any one threat more than the others?

RustyKnight wrote:

Soladrin wrote:A lot of Salamander still actively know their parents. They also go out of their way to save civilians in crazy situations. The audio short Vulkans shield, has a thunderhawk going into a city that will be getting an orbital bombardment in 6 minutes, just to evac a school.

There's a blurb in either the current or previous C:SM that mentions a Salamander coming to blows with another loyalist astartes over shelling innocents.

It wasn't with other Astartes, but with Armageddon Imperial Guard, who shelled a refugee camp to kill some Ork Kommandos there.

Lexicanum wrote:. According to rumors, Tu'Shan himself came to blows with Captain Vinyar of the Marines Malevolent, when the latter shelled a refugee camp the Orks had penetrated.7 Vinyar is said to have left the civilians to die because he "hadn´t time" to defend them, a notion which greatly angered the Chapter Master.3

They get into an arguement with the BTs too in the BL book Helsreach on treatment of civilians

@RustyKnight yes they did rebuke the Marines Malevolent for wanton disregard for civilians in the whirlwind artillery strikes into the ork camp where some thousands of human captives were held.

The Marines Malevolent were deployed during the Third War for Armageddon. They deployed two companies, a pretty small number, although evidence shows they had Whirlwind artillery support.

They have an arrogance about them which has brought many requests for Inquisitorial investigation. An example of this was during an Ork attack on a refugee camp near Hades Hive. In excess of five thousand Orks penetrated the defences of the camp and took the entire population, over 12,000 refugees and nearly 1000 member of the Adeptus Ministorum as hostages. The Marines Malevolent proceeded to use their Whirlwind anti-personal artillery pieces to bombard the Orks while they were still in the camp. On the proceeding attack to retake the camp, a huge amount of collateral damage had been done to the camp's population. Nearly four thousand refugees had been killed, but the Marines Malevolent seemed to believe them to be acceptable casualties. In a conversation with Colonel Destrier Celestine of the Armageddon Command Guard, the Marines Malevolent Captain Vinyar gave a speech that was tantamount to saying that those in the camp were not worthy of living and about his force's supremacy in war, before turning round to face the Salamanders Chapter Master Tu'Shan, who verbally rebuked Vinyard on his chapter's actions, saying they had betrayed those they were sworn to protect.

So if I wanted to add a vangaurd verteran squad wit hstorm sheilds and thunderhammers to my army list ... and gave them the jump packs ... it wouldnt be too anti fluff ?

ADVeretto wrote:So if I wanted to add a vangaurd verteran squad wit hstorm sheilds and thunderhammers to my army list ... and gave them the jump packs ... it wouldnt be too anti fluff ?

Nope...
Expensive though...

Ronin-Sage wrote:I've seen it mentioned that Salamanders have 'slower' reflexes than other Astartes(which to me, is BS fluff, if it's true). That, combined with the really funky gravity on Nocturne makes their fast attack approach minimal at best.

A better explanation might be that they prefer a 'hardier' approach to combat.

So that's my input.

Wouldnt heavy gravity make their reflexes stronger when outside of the gravity?

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:I've seen it mentioned that Salamanders have 'slower' reflexes than other Astartes(which to me, is BS fluff, if it's true). That, combined with the really funky gravity on Nocturne makes their fast attack approach minimal at best.

A better explanation might be that they prefer a 'hardier' approach to combat.

So that's my input.

Wouldnt heavy gravity make their reflexes stronger when outside of the gravity?

I don't like the 'slow reflexes' part, and I'm fairly sure it's too old to be considered canon, so I'm not going to defend it :p

Wouldnt heavy gravity make their reflexes stronger when outside of the gravity?

I've been saying that for years.

Ogryns anyone?

I know a few people mentioned the Salamanders spending time with the people of their world, this is true.

I think I remember something saying that they went home to their families when not out fighting the enemies of mankind.

If I were to start a SM army(im necrons) Salamanders would be it, the badass blacksmiths, the firery eyes, the meltas, the fact that they ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT PEOPLE of the Imperium. ^I think the Salamander commander actually sucker-punched the Marines malelavent commnader unconcious after he said he "didnt have time to save them". In a Hours Heresy short, a Salamander in a crashing Thunderhawk uses his own un-armoured body to protect a Remembrancer while a Ultramarine asks "why?" Vulkan is also the STRONGEST PRIMARCH and was described as throwing tanks with his bare-hands while on Istvaan.

I too never liked the whole "slower than other SM" fluff, so instead I think that the Salamnders fighting style is more 'solid' or 'earth-element'(in asian martial-arts) rather than they are actually slower ie you hit me with a few quick strikes but now I have you arm in a death grip and my fully-pulled-back fist is flying toward your throat. LOVE THEM!

Other than vulkan do the salamanders have any other named chapter members available in the actual 40k game ( or can be made with conversions)

It makes sense that being subject to strong gravity would affect their physical constitution to the point they're sturdier than average, and thus less nimble. As to whether that would make them more agile in different environments, well, imagine an elephant frolicking on the moon... I'm not convinced.

But of course it's not fun if they have a disadvantage, uh ?

The whole thing with the bikes and jump packs... I guess you could use it?

Bikes because, well nocturne is in constant flux right? So as someone said, dangerous terrain not suitable for bikes, you'd need flat open plains for bikes, doesn't really work when your open plains can all of a sudden open up into a chasm every couple months or so.

Jump packs makes more sense with regards to the whole terramorphic happenings, more mobility on wonky terrain.

Actually jump packs kind of make the most sense to me, so it wouldn't be too far off to have assault salamanders, I mean they added sky wolves didn't they? If you gave assault salamanders some fire spewing things Dragons anyone?

DeathRex wrote:Other than vulkan do the salamanders have any other named chapter members available in the actual 40k game ( or can be made with conversions)

They have 2 hqs in the badab war book, captain pellas, and bray'ath ashmantle (who's an hqs dreadnaught.) forgeworld has a ashmantle model available that looks incredible and pellas is just a captain with 2 power swords, so not that hard to convert.

Mongooli wrote:

DeathRex wrote:Other than vulkan do the salamanders have any other named chapter members available in the actual 40k game ( or can be made with conversions)

They have 2 hqs in the badab war book, captain pellas, and bray'ath ashmantle (who's an hqs dreadnaught.) forgeworld has a ashmantle model available that looks incredible and pellas is just a captain with 2 power swords, so not that hard to convert.

Thanks alot!

The lower reflexes, less fast attack etc. has been retconed thankfully.