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What's the general consensus ?

Can you avoid Deep Strike Scatter if you Teleport within 6" on an enemy Teleport Homer?

BRB FAQ:
Q: Am I able to gain the benefits of any of my
opponent’s wargear or special rules, such as Teleport
Homers, Chaos Icons, Tyranid Synapse, Necron
Resurrection Orbs etc?
A: In most occasions this is clear, as the rules use the
words ‘friendly’ or ‘own’ to indicate your units, and
‘enemy’ for the opponent’s. On the other hand, some
rules clearly specify that they affect ‘friend and foe’. A
few rules are, however, slightly ambiguous as they
don’t clearly specify this distinction. As a general
principle, we recommend that you cannot use or gain
the benefits from any of the wargear or special rules of
your opponent’s army, unless specifically stated in the
rule itself (‘friend or foe’) or in an official FAQ.

No.

Games Workshop Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: Am I able to gain the benefits of any of my
opponent’s wargear or special rules, such as Teleport
Homers, Chaos Icons, Tyranid Synapse, Necron
Resurrection Orbs etc?

A: In most occasions this is clear, as the rules use the
words ‘friendly’ or ‘own’ to indicate your units, and
‘enemy’ for the opponent’s. On the other hand, some
rules clearly specify that they affect ‘friend and foe’. A
few rules are, however, slightly ambiguous as they
don’t clearly specify this distinction. As a general
principle, we recommend that you cannot use or gain
the benefits from any of the wargear or special rules of
your opponent’s army, unless specifically stated in the
rule itself (‘friend or foe’) or in an official FAQ.

Edit: DAMN NINJAS!

puma, I like your ninja better.

Fair enough but not sure that helps much, I'm always a bit concerned about things that say "As a general principle we recommend" which seems to be passing the final judgement to the players rather than laying down a specific ruling.

For example the description in the Grey Knight books says "Grey Knight Strike Squads, Interceptor Squad or models in Terminator armour"

The entries for the mystic and servo skulls however specifically mention "friendly unit".

That seems to say to me that the "always on" teleport homer is a beacon for all where as the "think about it when I want to" ability of the Mystic and the "discrete datalink" for the skull is for friends only ?

Magpie wrote:Fair enough but not sure that helps much, I'm always a bit concerned about things that say "As a general principle we recommend" which seems to be passing the final judgement to the players rather than laying down a specific ruling.

Then you're in a bit of a fix wherever any of GW's FAQs are concerned.

If you're accepting GW's FAQs as a guide for how the game 'should' be played, then 'we reccommend' is ultimately no different to 'do it this way'...

Sure I am with you on that one, thing is they they do point to the specific rule and the specific rules do indicate that it is any GK Strike Squad , an Interceptor Squad can (GK or otherwise, ok granted their are none) and any model in Terminator armour , without qualification.

So a Purgugation squad cannot benefit from a teleport homer nor can an Inquisitor unless they are wearing Terminator armour for example so too a Chaos Terminator.

The Mystic however allows all your units to home in but not the enemy's.

That seems to be specifically stating friend or foe, in fact specific friends in one case.

Magpie wrote:That seems to be specifically stating friend or foe, in fact specific friends in one case.

How is it specifying that your enemy can use it?

A rule that says that any model can use it is not specifying any model in particular. What the FAQ is saying is that the item has to specifically allow enemy models to use it in order for them to be able to do so. Which means it actually needs to state that all models, friend or foe (or words to that effect) are subject to its effect.

Sure I see that but I am taking "words to that effect" to be "Specific Unit" , "Specific Unit" , "General Model" thing is it doesn't effect all models just a few specific ones, as listed.

And with the Servo Skulls and Mystic it is specific to Friendly only.

Common sense would point towards being only able to access friendly ones, you'd think a homer would be coded so only your mates could use it or you only turn it on when you want to use it.

But that isn't always the guiding factor in 40k I am finding

Astorath's special rule regarding the Red Thirst in Codex Blood Angels is an excellent example of what insaniak is talking about.

Fair enough and that rule is quite clear, would be nice if all rules were like that.

What I am thinking tho' is that that rule is more blanketing is says ALL Blood Angles where as the teleport homer only applies to very specific units and models.

You would expect that the teleport homer line should read "models in Terminator Armour (friend or foe)" or "friendly models in Terminator Armour" but it isn't as clear as that.

Magpie wrote:
You would expect that the teleport homer line should read "models in Terminator Armour (friend or foe)" or "friendly models in Terminator Armour" but it isn't as clear as that.

It is as clear as that.
It's a permissive rules set. You have permission to use your teleport homer.
Your opponent does not have permission to use your teleport homer.
How much clearer do you need?

rigeld2 wrote:How much clearer do you need?

Clear enough to ensure that "models in Terminator armour" actually means "friendly models in Terminator armour"

Magpie wrote:Clear enough to ensure that "models in Terminator armour" actually means "friendly models in Terminator armour"

Thanks to the FAQ, it doesn't need to specifify friendly models.

It doesn't specifically say 'enemy' models in terminator armour, nor does it say 'models in terminator armour, friend of foe'.

If it doesn't specify, it doesn't apply to enemy models. It's that simple.

Simply generally recommended but fortunately logically too,

shame, would have added some real spice to have Chaos Terminators dropping out of the blue onto my libby, who is calling in the deep strikers and summoning.

The phrasing could have been more authoritarian, but I think the ruling is clear.

True enough, but maybe not so clear to all and worth asking the question.

I mean the ludicrous thread on "compulsory multiple attacks" is onto the 6th page with an argument based on the difference between "can" and "must".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK with that one cleared up, what do we think about the process of deep striking?

Can you measure the 6" and then place your unit or do you land and hope for the best?

Magpie wrote:
I mean the ludicrous thread on "compulsory multiple attacks" is onto the 6th page with an argument based on the difference between "can" and "must".

Welcome to YMDC.

I believe the general consensus is that you place the model down, and then measure to see if it is within range.

Magpie wrote:Can you measure the 6" and then place your unit or do you land and home for the best?

Do you have permission to premeasure?

In general, players are not allowed to measure any
distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after
declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out
a rule’s area of effect, when deploying their forces, etc).

I would have thought means you can measure to work out the rule's area effect and also "when deploying forces" ?

I'd think you measure the 12" deployment area THEN place your models rather than place them and then measure?

Yes, you measure out the deployment area, then place.

In the case of the teleport homers, the deployment rules are irrelevant.

Seriously, you're reading too much into the rules. Sometimes there are weird interactions, but most of the time it's pretty straight forward.

Please Deep Strike model. Measure for 6". If outside, scatter.

I'm not reading too much into the rules at all mate, simply asking questions to get some feed back that's all.

"Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the
rules for reserves and then deploy them as follows."

If deep striking isn't deploying then what is it?

Thing is I am simply using that as an example of a non-combat/non-movement case where you can measure.

Actually, in our gaming groups (and tournaments), we measure off of teleport homers/chaos icons etc. We measure out 6" and you can place there without scatter. Otherwise, you place and then roll as normal.

Never even thought about doing it a different way.

You place then measure. If you're within 6", no scatter.

Lesser Daemons in Chaos Space Marines are a different matter; they can't be placed outside 6" of an icon, so premeasuring is necessary.

puma713 wrote:Actually, in our gaming groups (and tournaments), we measure off of teleport homers/chaos icons etc. We measure out 6" and you can place there without scatter. Otherwise, you place and then roll as normal.

Never even thought about doing it a different way.

Yeh I was thinking along those lines too mate and was a bit surprised to see such strong contention that it is otherwise.
There really doesn't appear to be anything that stipulates the order, like with firing.

Do you do it to just the first model? or do all of them have to come within 6" ? I have seen some who say ALL models must be within the 6.

Ninja Edit: I agree with what Puma is going to say in the future about seeing and understanding a point of view without agreeing with it

Mannahnin wrote:You place then measure. If you're within 6", no scatter.

I'm not sure I agree. The rules for teleport homer state:

". . .to teleport onto the battlefield via deep strike and choose to do so within 6" of a model carrying the teleport homer, then they won't scatter."

How do you choose to deep strike within 6", if you're not allowed to see if you're within 6"? Grammatically, "within 6"" is a complementing preposition describing how you're choosing to deep strike.



Edit: I should edit for clarity here. I definitely understand rigeld and Mannahnin's point-of-view. I'm just not sure I agree with it 100%.

You have to chosen to deepstrike close to your models; whether that is found to be within 6" or not, you are choosing where to place the moels. Nothing in there allows you permission to measure this distance, as it is not necessary to comply with the no-scatter effect

Do you need to be specifically granted permission to measure a distance?

Yes - or it be required in order to complete a requirement, such as Lesser daemons.


Lesser daemons MUST be deployed within 6" of an icon, so you MUST measure - otherwise you risk not complying with the rules

Here if you are not within 6" you scatter, if you are within 6" you do not scatter - nothing specifically states you can premeasure, and not measuring doesnt break a rule