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Hi everyone,

I've recently returned to 40k after a 6-7 year absence and this weekend picked up a copy of White Dwarf. Now this used to be an essential purchase each month. After a quick flick through it would sit next to the toilet for a couple of weeks so I could slowly digest the wealth of information contained within. Imagine my horror when after a cursory glace at the latest issue I found it extremely light on content and little more than endless promotions of the latest models.
Without intending to start an arguement about prices, this cost me the same as a metal blister used to. Suffice to say next month I'll put my fiver toward a shiny new Tyrannofex instead.

Has it been a slow decline to this standard or did I miss a depressing watershed moment in my absence?

Yeah it's been like that for some years now. It's still useable in your toilet, but there are cheaper (if less satisfying) alternatives for that as well.

A devoted team of dakka editors is busily working on a hobby web-zine to fill the void though, so keep an eye out for that.

Thanks TiB, I figured that was the case. If I had to be honest I'm pretty disappointed about many things that have changed. I suppose it's easier to notice them after a long gap.

It won't keep me away though

Boggy79 wrote:Thanks TiB, I figured that was the case. If I had to be honest I'm pretty disappointed about many things that have changed. I suppose it's easier to notice them after a long gap.

It won't keep me away though

Attaboy, that's the attitude that GW loves and wants!

I mourn the White Dwarf I remember too, back before the days of the internet when one had genuinely no clue what excitement or disappointment (depending on what models you collected) awaited you each month.

I remember whole rulesets (Confrontation, which evolved into Necromunda) whole adventures for WHFRP, plus templates for building things from plasticard (had a go at an Ork battlewagon once, think it was a Gobsmasha, even though I have never played Orks!) all being included.

It used to be special.

I built a couple of baneblades based on the templates in white dwarf... numerous WFB buildings too... I miss hobby stuff like that.

I think it essentially comes down to GW not putting as much money into it these days - less money = less journalists = less articles which have required journalistic input. Regardless of who is writing for it these days, it has undoubtedly lost the feeling that readers often have with magazine. i.e. the feeling of familiarity with the staff that have written the magazine - the in-jokes, the quality of writing, the feeling that it is an actual person writing the magazine is a hobbyist like you or I, rather than regurgitating sales blurb and competing about how many adjectives they can use to describe a new release. The likes of "I don't even collect 'x', but the model was just so fantastic I had to buy 8 of them" makes me want to reach for the barf bag, it is just so false.

Secondly, when Rick Priestly left GW a couple of years ago, he mentioned in an interview that the sales department was directly involved with changes to rules and updates of army books/codecies - that's why we have had the likes of Carnifex being reduced in capability in the last codex, and most strikingly the improvement of giant blocks of Infantry within the 8th edition WFB rules (compounded with the reduction of minis per box + the price increase).
However, I think it's also possible to draw comparisons to WD as well these days - the magazine essentially serves as a sales brochure for forthcoming releases, and when someone upstairs is dictating 'dedicate 5 pages to showing sprues of x' in the magazine, when only 6 pages are available (and there might otherwise have been something worth reading in that space) then immediately the hands of the journalists writing the magazine are tied.

TBH I thought the 25th anniversary edition of WD was appalling. There was nothing like the material such an event deserved, and I think most fans could have come up with better ideas in 10 seconds of thought. It would be interesting to see what the actual sales figures of the magazine are like. In between the drop in content, and reduced availability (removing the magazine from the shelves of WH Smiths, which was an absolutely nuts thing to do), I'm wondering how many people actual read it.

That 25th anniversary has done it for me. It was such a worthless mag, literally just an infomercial for LOTR, which doesn't even look like a game that's worth playing.

If I'm buying a hobby mag it'll be fine scale modeler only from now on.

Cave_Dweller wrote:That 25th anniversary has done it for me. It was such a worthless mag, literally just an infomercial for LOTR, which doesn't even look like a game that's worth playing.

If I'm buying a hobby mag it'll be fine scale modeler only from now on.

Actually LotR is a great rule set. They use the same mechanics in Legends of the Old West ( another good game). I don't get all the LoTR hate. Have you tried playing the game?

I don't know about LoTR since they changed to War of the Ring, but it used to be a good skirmish game.

I have found in my personal experience most people who 'hate' on LotR are 40k or WHFB fanatics who only play one system and have never even given the game a try. I am far from a fan of LoTR but I did enjoy it somewhat. I would never pay the prices they are asking for the figgies now and their asthetic doesn't really do it for me as I prefer 20mm or 6(3) mm scale models personally.

White Dwarf has been getting better, but it's still nowhere near good enough to justify the $9 pricetag. It was worse a year ago, definitely, but not even close to how good it was in the early-mid 2000s.

Ah the good old days when white dwarf contained instructions on how to build a baneblade using only cardboard. That is the true spirit of 40k, but no way to run a stock-listed company!

TiB wrote:Yeah it's been like that for some years now. It's still useable in your toilet, but there are cheaper (if less satisfying) alternatives for that as well.

A devoted team of dakka editors is busily working on a hobby web-zine to fill the void though, so keep an eye out for that.

Serious? Yes!

Yeah, it's not really worth it to pay 10dollars for a catalogue up-date each month.

Argos give you their catalogue for free


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White Dwarf Excerpt:

To build the army, Andy made extensive use of his CITADEL glues and cutters, ensuring he used CITADEL files to get rid of those pesky mould lines. To ensure comfort as he did this, he made gratuitous use of his CITADEL hobby chair, its comforting back-rest relieving him of much of the physical duress of extended hobbying. Andy also ensured he remained hydrated by drinking his CITADEL mineral water....

You get the idea.

It is just a bunch of glossy commercials, shoved between a usually nice piece of cover art and one more commercial.


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Finding useful content inside the newest edition of White Dwarf is harder than finding Waldo.

You mean except for the actual new gaming rules that have appeared in most issues lately? SoB codex, apocalypse formations, and warhammer civil war rules?

I picked up this months white dwarf; first one I've bought in quite a while.

Quite frankly I was pleasantly surprised. They actually talked about the models, had a couple painting articles, and generally felt like there was much more content than had been there since.. well, I can't remember how long ago.

I think they are starting to take it in the right direction; but some old habits die hard.

Once a year I think about getting a subscription... In the past 4 years it's gone from "**** No!" to "If they keep going this way, it should be worth it soon..."

I was looking through some older WD's today, and think I found the last worthy issue - namely 314. Lots of articles on new releases, two battle reports, some terrain modelling, a specialist game article (Mordheim), tale of 4 gamers, and even though it was an old mag I spent a good hour (inc. a toilet read) going through it. Perfect.

But, there on the back cover, like an omen fortelling the coming of dark times, was the large fun-house-mirror version of an ogre that is the plastic Giant.

The 'Giant issue' is generally regarded as being the first truly poor WD, beginning a dynasty of appalling WD's that a lot of people would argue has never really ended. So, what was the difference between those two mags? What happened in the space of an issue? The date specifically was April 2006. It would be interesting if there was anyone in the know who might be aware of what happened to the magazine (or perhaps the staff) during that month.

This months issue wasn't bad, but it wasn't good. It definitely still retains the catalogue feeling, but the few articles talking about the new Tyranids were okay. Though I'd have much preferred it if they dropped the article where Cruddace blathered on for a page and replaced it with the model designer talking about why he took the Tervigon kit in the direction he did (like they did with the zombie dragon).

The highlight was the 2 paragraphs and full two page spreads they gave Phil Kellys, Keith Robertsons and Tom Hutchings Tyranid armies. It was nice to see some studio armies for once, rather than Eavy Metals usual stuff.

Get your hobby knife. Buy some document protectors and a binder. Remove all the Eavy Metal turtorials and picks of cool stuff. Toss.

Atleast this way you get a free masterclass reference out of it. I buy it whenever its non LOTR. Im usually bummed, but yeah its good for a dump or two.

We no longer need the magazine.

We now have websites like this one, with hundreds of hours of reading for tutorials, gaming, battle reports, interactive discussion etc. Other than reading on the crapper, why do any of us really lament the passing of that magazine. I miss how it was 10 to 20 years ago, so it's long dead to me and whilst I have forums like these for my hobby needs, who really cares about the mag, it's a catalogue for the company's product. It's also ball-breaking expensive.

So, instead, contribute $25 and support this site.

Its become a $10 flyer for all the new models that are "totally super awesome!". All the background stuff, expansion stuff, hobby stuff is mostly gone.

As sad as it might be, gamers killed White Dwarf. Back in the pre-internet days, the only way to share information with gamers was through printed publication. If you wanted inspiration for terrain or conversions, new rules, more background information, you had to get White Dwarf. If you wanted to see other peoples armies and paintjobs, painting articles, articles about games and rules discussions, a Tale of Four Gamers, interesting hobbiests and collections, you had to get White Dwarf.

But the the internet happened. And now I can get all of that stuff, plus more to boot, for free. And at a high level of quality, at least as high as those old WD articles. So as an editorial team, why would White Dwarf offer the same articles I can get for free?

They can't. It's not sustainable. And they can never offer better articles either, the level of effort that we gamers put into our resources can be staggering.

So what can they do? They offer something else. Promotions of new models, articles about the GW personalities we know and love (interviews with designers, Jervis' column, etc) and showcases of new models and rules. Theres just no other material out there to offer.

TiB wrote:Yeah it's been like that for some years now. It's still useable in your toilet, but there are cheaper (if less satisfying) alternatives for that as well.

A devoted team of dakka editors is busily working on a hobby web-zine to fill the void though, so keep an eye out for that.

It'll never work. For the same reason outlined above, the articles I want are all out there for free, and are freely available. While a dakka e-zine might be free, it is still limiting. I'll never bother downloading a dakka e-zine unless it offers exactly what I want AND offers it exactly when I want AND is free.

Further, the void that exists is NOT for great hobby resources and articles. Those are a dime a dozen on the internet. What is lacking are those same articles in a shiny printed magazine, for a very low price. No e-zine will ever fill that void. As the OP said, the beauty of the WD was that it could live on the coffee table, or the toilet, or by the bed so you could browse it without having to be anti-social and use the internet, and in places where internet access was impractical.

Thats why I still buy WD. So I can see and read about the new rules, read about the design studio personalities, and because I can do it in the traditional magazine-reading paradigm: on the couch while my wife is watching daytime TV, in bed before we go to sleep, in the car if I'm waiting for something, on the toilet, etc etc etc.

Heck, anyone who has ever bought any kind of special interest magazine will know this phenomena is not isolated to WD. The price is very standard, and the article content is also.



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Cave_Dweller wrote: just an infomercial for LOTR, which doesn't even look like a game that's worth playing.

Well, thats your loss. LotR is a great system, far more user-friendly and intuitive than 40K

I don't think your being very fair. There has been a wealth of useful content such as painting guides, rules updates, rules expansions etc. it's not all a shiny product catalogue.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:We no longer need the magazine.

We now have websites like this one, with hundreds of hours of reading for tutorials, gaming, battle reports, interactive discussion etc. Other than reading on the crapper, why do any of us really lament the passing of that magazine. I miss how it was 10 to 20 years ago, so it's long dead to me and whilst I have forums like these for my hobby needs, who really cares about the mag, it's a catalogue for the company's product. It's also ball-breaking expensive.

So, instead, contribute $25 and support this site.

I'm not sure I agree with this (and this reply is to Kaldor also really, who is saying the same thing). There are still magazines available for any hobby or pastime you can mention. The key is that they have survived, in the face of the internet onslaught, by keeping to good journalistic standards. While the internet is wonderful for obtaining information quickly, it is not always the best when you want informed, or just well written, material. You also have the situation of people just wanting to read in a format other than a computer screen.

But, and this is the key, you have to have that journalistic content if you want to compete with the internet. The adverts and new product review are fine, but there has to be material in-between that makes it possible for you to get your teeth into it. While WD often has less interesting articles than a lot of internet blogs, that doesn't mean it is inherently because of the rise of the internet - other magazines in other fields have proved that is not the case - but rather just a failing of WD in particular.

So in that case I would rather WD was done properly - Games Workshop, pay writers to make well written, informed and interesting content for the magazine, or else give it to someone who is capable of doing so. Specifically, I'm thinking that Black Library might be the ideal candidates here.

It went downhill way before 6-7 years ago... But second the still useable in the toilet, pretty expensive stuff, perhaps it's what Kirkby uses to show off

Go pick up a copy of No Quarter instead, they know what they're doing.

Kaldor wrote:It'll never work. For the same reason outlined above, the articles I want are all out there for free, and are freely available. While a dakka e-zine might be free, it is still limiting. I'll never bother downloading a dakka e-zine unless it offers exactly what I want AND offers it exactly when I want AND is free.

Well I disagree. The fact that there is actual quality control will make a big difference. I think lots of people would like a collection of well-written and well-photographed quality articles and tutorials put together in a nicely desiged package, rather than having to sift through the 'I only have my crappy phone camera so deal with it' chaff every time.

Also I suspect it will be a great help to newcomers who do not yet know the way to all the gems buried out there.

LoTR might be a great system, but it looks uninteresting, the models are inspired from the movies and are essentially a movie promotion. The sculpts arent even that great, compounded by the fact that theyre sold at GW prices. No one at my FLGS plays it and they cant even sell the stuff. And I'm just not that into LOTR.

It needs to go away IMO.

I thought things were picking up with the SoB rules but sadly the alleged new policy of bringing actual content into the mag hasn't been proven to be true.