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So I just started necrons, but i don't know how to field them, the two games I've played with them I won by sheer luck and just barly holding on. I really need, since I want to win at least a few games

Lists?

I only have praetorian a monolith lychgaurd Imoteky and 3 boxes of warriors

And what are you fighting and what are their lists.

Okay, so let me make sure I've got your army correct:

1x Monolith
5x Praetorians
5x Lychguard
36x Warriors
9x Scarabs
1x Imotekh

Assuming this is correct, you will need to get some support units. To decide which support units, you will have to figure out what kind of army you want to play. you're currently at a crossroads, and have to first determine if you want to run a shooting list or a combat list.

I play ba mostly so I guess shooting

Langston128 wrote:I play ba mostly so I guess shooting

Barges in both forms, are your friends.

Annilation barges put out a ton of firepower, for only 90 points. 2-3 of these, fill out your heavy support slot, and are very effective.

Catacomb command barges, are great for Warscythe toting overlords. Their sweep attacks murder vehicles, and they are very fast.

Shooting-wise, it's hard to beat Eldritch Lance Crypteks. You can get 5 of them Per court, and they pack quite a punch.

I would Avoid using Immotekh in a Shooting based army, as his abiltites favor a much more assault oriented force, because of his nightfighting.

Close combat wise, Wraiths take the cake. They are quick, durable, and hit very hard. They make great Counter assault units, and really fit well into any sort of list.

in a shooting would one catacomb command barge be enough, or should i get more?

Langston128 wrote:in a shooting would one catacomb command barge be enough, or should i get more?

If you want to bring two courts, and double the amount of court members that can go in a squad, you need two Overlords. So, you don't HAVE to bring Catacomb Command barges at all, but an Overlord with a Warscythe on one, is great Anti-tank, and can sweep infantry squads if needed as well. I bring two in my 2k lists a lot.

I'm a big fan of two Overlords w/ Warscythes on Catacomb Command Barges. For the 180 points each will cost you, you'll get a fast, reliable anti-tank threat that is great at picking off anyone carrying special equipment in enemy units once the tanks are all gone. Additionally, these have a great psychological effect to distract your opponent, because your opponent will know that if he does not make an effort to bring these down, then he will lose all of his tanks. And if he does put the effot in, then the rest of your army is safe that turn, as the Catacomb Command Barges are not easy to bring down (just make sure you always move more than 6", so that assaults will only hit the CCB on 6s). I don't like them as the only anti-tank in an army, but when paired with even one or two anti-tank guns, two CCBs can be a nightmare for people.


EDIT: Spelling!

I was thinking about splitting up the royal court in a shooty army would that help the infantry or just keep it as one solid court

It's allways good to have a res-Lord in a unit of warriors.
I for one, split up my courts.

If we're playing against BA's you're going to have the same problems with their Stormravens that we do with the GK fliers.

You need an AA Lord - take the Tachyon Arrow, it's one of the best deals in our codex. I don't see Junk or Devian or jy2 suggesting this, but it makes sense, especially against these beefed-up fliers.

Our primary AT capability is in CC w/the Warscythe lords, scarabs and wraiths. Good troops, eat tanks nom nom. Doesn't work against Stormravens. Have to roll 6's to hit against them in CC, and more importantly they're just too darned agile to close with.

I'm going to treat the GK version here b/c it's what I'm familiar with, the BA's version is similar. Both have the "Machine Spirit" special rule allowing them to fire +1 weapon so they can attack after moving flat-out (and fire regardless of crew shaken/stunned results), both have an enormous amount of firepower (the BA version having more raw firepower, but the GK version basically ignores ALL shaken/stunned results via a 10+ ldr roll). I think the BA version is generally better w/upgrades, but the GK's ability to shrug off our Gauss glancing hits may make his version better against our Necrons.

Maths - let's look at what it takes to get a "knockout" (immobilize, destroyed, exploded) hit on these things:

PULSETEK:
odds of ap2 penetrating hit resulting in "knockout" = 50%
odds of ap2 glancing hit resulting in "knockout" = 16.66%

pulsetek (8str) odds to penetrate vs. 12 armor = 4/6 * 2/6 = 22.22%
pulsetek (8str) odds to glance vs. 12 armor = 4/6 * 1/6 = 11.11%

odds of one pulsetek shot knocking out a flier = (.2222 * .5) + (.1666 * .1111) = 12.96%

TACHYON ARROW:
odds of ap1 penetrating hit resulting in "knockout" = 66.66%
odds of ap1 glancing hit resulting in "knockout" = 33.33%

tachyon (10str) odds to penetrate vs. 12 armor = 4/6 * 4/6 = 44.44%
tachyon (10str) odds to glance vs. 12 armor = 4/6 * 1/6 = 11.11%

odds of one tachyon arrow knocking out a flier = (.4444 * .6666) + (.3333 * .1111) = 37.03%

That's roughly a one-in-three vs. a one-in-nine, or a three-to-one advantage with the tachyon arrow. One shot from a tachyon arrow is a serious deterrent - enough to keep the flier moving flat-out, limiting it to only one weapon fired per fire phase and (in the case of a GK ship) disallowing use of it's "defensive" (yeah, right) mindstrike missiles.

An AckAck Lord, whether it be a Destroyer Lord, Overlord, or Anrakyr the Traveller** himself, is a must anytime we're taking one of the models in our army anyway. (** - Anrakyr's "Mind in the Machine" w/a 66% chance to take over an opponent's vehicle is also veery nice, but off-topic.)

The 30 points for the Tachyon Arrow, any way you look at it, gives you even more pop than the "to kill" numbers suggest. It's impossible to avoid, it isn't a fire-magnet b/c you'll pop it off (and basically use the 30 points) typically before our very tough lords can be killed, and it actually mixes well with an assault tactic. It's around the equivalent of 2x lascannon shots right now. (Whereas normally our lascannon-equivalents don't get 2-3 shots before dying anyway.) The Chronometron re-roll tek is benefit-multiplied with it (because it's very powerful and resolved with two rolls, the net result of one re-roll is HUGE.) And we're very sparse on anti-flyer weaponry to start with.

Just a note: if you take one or two (can't have more than two), do NOT waste them on a flyer going flat-out (with concommitant cover-save). He's giving up his firepower, you've done your job - don't eat the 50% reduction in fire effect , we're better off keeping it as a threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
to be clear - i'm counting an "immobilize" result as a "knockout" b/c that usually results in the flier's loss of effectiveness, whether by subsequently being eaten by scarabs or just not having a LOS/FOF anymore. ie, that's what really happens.

If you want advice on building a solid themed army you could do much worse than looking at Junks recent threads about certain builds. Jy2 also has a very competitive build in the form of MTO necrons. Now that people are having time to get used to the codex the current power lists out there are:

- scarab farm
- walking silver tide with AV13 support
- MTO necrons
- scythe spam
- anything with lots of wraiths in the fast slot.

The last point is completely serious. Wraiths are the stars of our codex able to fill any role you want them to due to their inv. save, high S, high movement as well as quality and quantity of attacks.

Totally agree, basing all my decisions on army composition on the theorycrafting in their threads. (with a "does it work for me" filter.)

Just sayin', if you're already taking a generic HQ unit, add the arrow. Esp. vs. BA's.

Randall Turner wrote:Totally agree, basing all my decisions on army composition on the theorycrafting in their threads. (with a "does it work for me" filter.)

Just sayin', if you're already taking a generic HQ unit, add the arrow. Esp. vs. BA's.

The Arrow is overpriced, unless you are in a unit with a Chronometron Cryptek. I can almost purchase a Wraith, for the price of the Arrow, and the Arrow has a 1/3rd chance to not to do anything.

May just be MY dice; but the arrow's never worked for me either. Kinda one of those, "Oh Yeah!.... Well crap." moments.

I am 0 for 4 trying to use the Tachyon Arrow

azazel the cat wrote:I am 0 for 4 trying to use the Tachyon Arrow

Stop firing it at units with a 2+ cover save. Seriously that's some bad dice. Did you have a chronometron with it?

First use - exploded land raider.
Second one - weapon destroyed land raider.
Third - exploded Gazkulls KFF battlewagon.

Chrono every time though.

What sort of unit do you usually have a tachyon arrow and a harbinger of eternity in? I can only really imagine it in some sort of shooting royal yacht, a foot shooting royal court (with an expensive overlord sitting around back field for some reason) or a lychguard deathstar.

I guess I can also picture this combo in a unit with an overlord, a lord, a harbinger and 7 warriors all in an ark, but I think you are paying way more than you have to for that. I'd be happier with my Overlords filling up armchairs and just sitting 2 lords in each ark with the warrior squads.

There is no way an arrow isn't worth the 30 points. I can go through any scenario you'd like and hammer the math, but it's cut and dried.

This is really my point: many of the theorycrafting threads are missing the Tachyon Arrow's value. One hit from this thing can win a battle for us, especially a low-point mission.

Sasori: "The Arrow is overpriced, unless you are in a unit with a Chronometron Cryptek. I can almost purchase a Wraith, for the price of the Arrow, and the Arrow has a 1/3rd chance to not to do anything."

That's not true (see below) - and there's a 2/3 chance it changes the game for you. In the Stormraven example it's going to neutralize a 200-250 pt. unit. For 30 points.

It's a long-range (to say the least) AT weapon that's the rough equivalent of two lascannon shots. For 30 points. If we could, we should take a battery of four on each Overlord/Destroyer Lord. Saying there's a 1/3rd chance it won't do anything is also wrong - it *forces* your opponent with Stormravens to keep moving flat-out just by being on the board, instead of hovering just out of range of your pulse-teks and butchering your scarab farm. (They're death on scarabs. Two turns of shooting from one of these fliers moving at combat speed == scarab carcass bar-b-q.)

It's also instant fire concentration. I don't think of cost-benefit the same way some of you Dakka guys do, I'm an engineer but I'm also a board game veteran and a ASL tournament champion. I'm used to thinking in terms of opportunity cost and situational multipliers (percentage chances of a unit getting a fire solution and living long enough to deliver damage.) This Tachyon Arrow thing is the easiest unit in the game to employ tactically. That's another multiplier.

The way I use them in a 750-1000pt army, btw, is on a Destroyer Lord and Anrakyr w/ the DL detaching soon after initial deployment to a full up wraith unit, and Anrakyr hanging w/an Immortal squad and a chrono-tek. Otherwise a mix scarab farm, wraith wing army. The DL sometimes hangs w/Anrakyr and the chrono for a turn or two, depending on enemy deployment, depending on whether I APC the Immortals and/or command barge Anrakyr. The arrows are not popular w/mech armies.

There is no way an arrow isn't worth the 30 points. I can go through any scenario you'd like and hammer the math, but it's cut and dried.

It's not cut and dried at all. I used the Tacyhon Arrow back when I used Anraykr, and it did not come in that handy. Most of the time I was moving flat-out in a CCB, and if I moved 12' or less, it was to get out and assault a vehicle. In the instances when I fired it, It did something sometimes, and others it didn't. It wasn't something to be relied on.

This is really my point: many of the theorycrafting threads are missing the Tachyon Arrow's value. One hit from this thing can win a battle for us, especially a low-point mission.

As I said, I've tried the Tachyon arrow. For me, I would rather Anraykr have been 30 points cheaper, than having that. Perhaps it can cause a game changer in lower point games, but I pack so much Anti-tank in my larger lists, that I'd much rather spend the points on an Arrow elsewhere.

That's not true (see below) - and there's a 2/3 chance it changes the game for you. In the Stormraven example it's going to neutralize a 200-250 pt. unit. For 30 points.

It's still not a 2/3rd chance. You still have to penetrate it, and then at least roll a 4 on the chart to wreck it, or a 5 on the glancing chart. It's much less than a 2/3rds chance at that point.

I can do all that with CCB as well, and it's not a one shot deal. I can do that with a Lancetek as well. He keeps shooting all game. The odds are no worth paying the 30 points for.

It's a long-range (to say the least) AT weapon that's the rough equivalent of two lascannon shots. For 30 points. If we could, we should take a battery of four on each Overlord/Destroyer Lord. Saying there's a 1/3rd chance it won't do anything is also wrong - it *forces* your opponent with Stormravens to keep moving flat-out just by being on the board, instead of hovering just out of range of your pulse-teks and butchering your scarab farm. (They're death on scarabs. Two turns of shooting from one of these fliers moving at combat speed == scarab carcass bar-b-q.)

A Person with Stormravens only needs 1 turn of moving flat out. The Second turn the 12' move will be plenty to drop off it's cargo, which is the point of the Stormraven. In this situation, I'd much rather use the CCB to flat out and sweep the Stormraven. It doesn't care about Cover saves. I'd also, rather use lanceteks. Volume of fire will get through that cover save, without issues.

It's still a 1/3rd chance to not do anything. My opponets were more scared of being anywhere near Anrakyr, than the arrow. I'm sure it would be the same case if I took them on my CCB Overlords as well.

It's also instant fire concentration. I don't think of cost-benefit the same way some of you Dakka guys do, I'm an engineer but I'm also a board game veteran and a ASL tournament champion. I'm used to thinking in terms of opportunity cost and situational multipliers (percentage chances of a unit getting a fire solution and living long enough to deliver damage.) This Tachyon Arrow thing is the easiest unit in the game to employ tactically. That's another multiplier.

Just because it's easy to use, does not necessarily make it good.

The way I use them in a 750-1000pt army, btw, is on a Destroyer Lord and Anrakyr w/ the DL detaching soon after initial deployment to a full up wraith unit, and Anrakyr hanging w/an Immortal squad and a chrono-tek. Otherwise a mix scarab farm, wraith wing army. The DL sometimes hangs w/Anrakyr and the chrono for a turn or two, depending on enemy deployment, depending on whether I APC the Immortals and/or command barge Anrakyr. The arrows are not popular w/mech armies.

Using it with the Chronometron, as I said earlier, is the only viable way to use the Arrow. It's worth it then, since you can re-roll the miss, or the pen dice, or(This one is debatable) the pen result.

There's also cover saves or maybe your opponent doesn't have anything that needs st10 ap1 so you spent 70 points to wound a tyrant guard or kill a warbike or something. The arrow also doesn't have a body, it isn't a thing, it doesn't contest objectives or draw enemy fire, it doesn't do anything over 5 or 6 game turns the way an actual model with a gun can. In your lancetek vs arrow example the arrow is 24.07% more likely to kill a flyer but that's still less than a 50% chance for that arrow to do anything for you while over the course of 6 turns the lancetek can keep trying or start shooting other things while adding to the numbers of an objective grabbing warrior squad and giving it a chance to ever-living come back if it's wiped out.
Which isn't to say the tachyon arrow is a bad option, it goes well on destroyer lords who can use their mobility to get good los and you're likely giving up a slew of lanceteks taking a dlord anyway so any added ranged anti tank will probably be in high demand in the list, but it's hardly auto include.

Sasori, you're not doing the math. You can't say "it's not working for me, so it's not worth it". If the dice hate you, you're going to lose a 40k game anyway.

Cost/benefit completely ignoring ease of deployment - against an AV12 target (our Stormraven, a dreadnought, that sort of thing) we have a .2407 probability of a destroyed or exploded result on one shot, or about one target destroyed for every 4 arrows. (It's more complicated than that, probabilities aren't additive and getting "average" results depends on target availability for second/third shots etc, but we're also ignoring immobilized/weapon/crew results, so it's safe to say that one kill per four arrows is conservative.)

That also means your experience of one not being any help is pretty normal.

That doesn't mean it's not worth it, though. In general, if you can engage one target worth at least 120 points, it's worth it. And there, yes, ease of deployment etc. is very definitely a factor.

Actinium: no you can't hold an objective with a Tachyon Arrow etc. And yes, if your Pulsetek can stay alive and out of CC it'll continue to fire - but the chances of a Pulsetek getting a Tachyon Arrow's worth of firing off OVER THE COURSE OF AN ENTIRE GAME aren't much better than 50-50 in my experience, and in the meantime while you're plinking away at your target it'll be firing back. With the arrow, if you kill (remember same chance as 3 PT shots) it's dead. Right now. Opportunity cost of the Pulsetek is average damage incurred from fire by the target unit during the 2-3 turns you haven't killed it.

Bottom line is you're just not thinking it through, except for target density. I'm giving you a very, very conservative back-of-napkin treatment here that's saying, "if you have a unit that CAN take a Tachyon Arrow, you SHOULD take a Tachyon Arrow".

Target density: Yep. The only valid point against the arrow is target density. Does the opponent typically take a unit with AV11+ that's worth 120 points or more? (or an equivalent w/inv you can negate etc.)And that is a valid question, and I do play with a Tyrannid guy where I've got units better suited to deal damage if he chooses a certain list. Which he actually does, now.

For fun, here's my 750 pt. list in an escalation tournament:

Destroyer Lord w/MSS, Sept Weave, Tachyon
5xWraith, some whips forget
5xWarrior
5xWarrior
2xCanoptic Spyder
10xScarabs (maybe 2 units of 5, depends)

As you can see, I'm totally in line with fast-attack slot centric design. But I'm doing what Sasori says, I'm essentially giving up a wraith for the arrow. I'm doing it because my opponent is fielding:

Gray Knights codex:
Coteaz
4x Henchman, Razorback w/Lascannon + linked Plasma
4x Henchman, Razorback w/Lascannon + linked Plasma
4x Henchman, Razorback w/Lascannon + linked Plasma
Dreadnought (forget loadout, think rifleman)
Stormraven

I'm not particularly scared of anything in that list except for the Stormraven - which does NOT load up troops, he stays at range and fires. The rest of it, unless we're playing on a flat plain, I can at least cause to sweat a little. (And yes, I did play him once on a flat plain, he tabled me. GK's tough at low points. Then I tweaked, added the Arrow & insisted on per-book terrain density - "things changed". )

Yeah...you are prolly going to lose.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah...you are prolly going to lose.

The point is we played already. Twice.

After I added the Arrow to essentially the same army, it forced his Stormraven to keep moving flat-out. Opportunity cost to him was a volley of four Mindstrike missiles and 3x3 TL Heavy Bolter shots, ie, four 4str template blasts and nine high-probability shots at strength 6 (psybolt ammo) that instakill scarab bases. Upshot was that I was able to get my scarabs within 18" of his razorbacks and move/assault, for a very strong killpoint draw. (ie, if we kept playing for 10 turns I'd have probably won.) (well, unless I rolled a lot of 1's, but what can you do.)

The Tachyon Arrow missed - I fired it just before going into combat w/the DL & wraiths. If it'd hit, I'd have won the game. (Tried to pop the Dread, ~180pt target or thereabouts.)

It paid for itself by being on the field, ie, the 13 Stormchicken shots my opponent couldn't slow down enough to take.

Sasori, you're not doing the math. You can't say "it's not working for me, so it's not worth it". If the dice hate you, you're going to lose a 40k game anyway.

I didn't just say "It's not working for me" I explained the reasaoning of how it was ineffective, on a Barge Overlord, which is how I (And a lot of people) run my HQs. It has much more to do with it being ineffective compared to sweeps and assaults from a CCB, than the dice rolling.

Cost/benefit completely ignoring ease of deployment - against an AV12 target (our Stormraven, a dreadnought, that sort of thing) we have a .2407 probability of a destroyed or exploded result on one shot, or about one target destroyed for every 4 arrows. (It's more complicated than that, probabilities aren't additive and getting "average" results depends on target availability for second/third shots etc, but we're also ignoring immobilized/weapon/crew results, so it's safe to say that one kill per four arrows is conservative.)

Here is the exact percentage against an AV12 vehicle.
Shak : 1.852%
Stun : 1.852%
Weap : 9.259%
Immo : 9.259%
Wrec : 9.259%
Expl : 24.074%

This would be great, if it wasn't a single shot.

That doesn't mean it's not worth it, though. In general, if you can engage one target worth at least 120 points, it's worth it. And there, yes, ease of deployment etc. is very definitely a factor.

As I said before, in higher point games, they are not worth it, because your entire list is bristling with Anti-tank. My Barges are not going to move slow enough to fire the arrows either, they are moving flat out, or are moving less for the assault, in which case firing the Arrow could be too risky.

Actinium: no you can't hold an objective with a Tachyon Arrow etc. And yes, if your Pulsetek can stay alive and out of CC it'll continue to fire - but the chances of a Pulsetek getting a Tachyon Arrow's worth of firing off OVER THE COURSE OF AN ENTIRE GAME aren't much better than 50-50 in my experience, and in the meantime while you're plinking away at your target it'll be firing back. With the arrow, if you kill (remember same chance as 3 PT shots) it's dead. Right now. Opportunity cost of the Pulsetek is average damage incurred from fire by the target unit during the 2-3 turns you haven't killed it.

Here is the Math for the same AV12, but with a Lancetek

Shak : 9.259%
Stun : 5.556%
Weap : 5.556%
Immo : 5.556%
Wrec : 3.704%
Expl : 3.704%

Not a Great percentage on it's own, but the great thing about Lanceteks, is you can take up to two per squad, and have them situated very safely. As you can see though, at the very least it's not difficult to shake a vehicle, which will prevent it from firing. Sometimes that's all you need. However, I take two per squad so my percentage looks more like the following;


Shak : 17.661%
Stun : 10.802%
Weap : 10.802%
Immo : 10.802%
Wrec : 7.27%
Expl : 7.27%

Which is fairly significant. Of course, it's double the cost of a single Arrow, but these can continue to fire the entire game. Over the course of 6 turns, they have done the work of 3 Tachyon arrows, which means that Lanceteks provide better value points-wise than a Tachyon arrow. These are also on platforms that you can't pick out in shooting or close combat.

Bottom line is you're just not thinking it through, except for target density. I'm giving you a very, very conservative back-of-napkin treatment here that's saying, "if you have a unit that CAN take a Tachyon Arrow, you SHOULD take a Tachyon Arrow".

The only place you can take Tachyon arrows are on an Overlord, Dlord, and Anrakyr. I would never take one on an Overlord, as I use them mounted on CCBs. Necron lists tend to be very tight in points, and there are plenty of things I'd rather spend my points on, than a once a game, 1/3rd chance to blow up an AV12 vehicle.

Target density: Yep. The only valid point against the arrow is target density. Does the opponent typically take a unit with AV11+ that's worth 120 points or more? (or an equivalent w/inv you can negate etc.)And that is a valid question, and I do play with a Tyrannid guy where I've got units better suited to deal damage if he chooses a certain list. Which he actually does, now.

There are plenty of reasons not to take one, as I've illustrated.

For fun, here's my 750 pt. list in an escalation tournament:

The game isn't balanced at this point level, so perhaps that's why you are having such a good experience with them, I really don't know. Things like Redundancy, and reliability become a lot more important in higher point games, of which the Tachyon arrow provides none.

Randall Turner wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah...you are prolly going to lose.

The point is we played already. Twice.

After I added the Arrow to essentially the same army, it forced his Stormraven to keep moving flat-out. Opportunity cost to him was a volley of four Mindstrike missiles and 3x3 TL Heavy Bolter shots, ie, four 4str template blasts and nine high-probability shots at strength 6 (psybolt ammo) that instakill scarab bases. Upshot was that I was able to get my scarabs within 18" of his razorbacks and move/assault, for a very strong killpoint draw. (ie, if we kept playing for 10 turns I'd have probably won.) (well, unless I rolled a lot of 1's, but what can you do.)

The Tachyon Arrow missed - I fired it just before going into combat w/the DL & wraiths. If it'd hit, I'd have won the game. (Tried to pop the Dread, ~180pt target or thereabouts.)

It paid for itself by being on the field, ie, the 13 Stormchicken shots my opponent couldn't slow down enough to take.

...You just contradicted your own argument there.
Since when did games continue for 10 turns?

Good luck with the scarabs though. I was expecting them to all die due to plasma and las from the razorbacks.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
...You just contradicted your own argument there.
Since when did games continue for 10 turns?

Good luck with the scarabs though. I was expecting them to all die due to plasma and las from the razorbacks.

Are you trolling? I contradicted myself exactly how? Have you never looked at the end of the game and said, "if I had another three/four turns I'd win this"?

The threat for the scarabs in that list is sustained fire from the stormraven. It has seven twin-linked autokill shots per turn, plus one volley of missiles, unless you force it to move flat-out. Even then, it'll fire the autocannon and take a heavy toll - you have to keep to cover on approach and/or close asap, plus get there when the rest of your CC units arrive and Gauss units come in range.

I don't think we can beat that army w/o cover. period. You want to throw up a 750 point try, take a shot. I'd like to see what your alternative list is, if it looks promising I'll steal it.

Sasori wrote:Here is the Math for the same AV12, but with a Lancetek
Not a Great percentage on it's own, but the great thing about Lanceteks, is you can take up to two per squad, and have them situated very safely. As you can see though, at the very least it's not difficult to shake a vehicle, which will prevent it from firing. Sometimes that's all you need. However, I take two per squad so my percentage looks more like the following;

I got the odds exactly right, partner.

If a "shaken" result was enough to dissuade a GK Stormraven, I'd depend on Gauss fire (more). You do understand that a GK ship only has a 1/12th chance to suffer stun/shaken results, right? Ignores on 10+ ld roll. (Just like their other heavy vehicles and dreadnoughts.) Shaken is worthless. (well, against GK anyway.)

If I could keep a tek within range of my scarab units, I'd consider using them for fire cover. You do understand that the Mindstrike missiles have a 72" range, 48" for their LT AC, 36" for their TL HB? You often can't even stay close enough to a closing scarab unit to keep him out of HB range. Don't have to worry about range with an arrow.

Disregarding range: Do you not understand why three shots from a tek aren't as good as one from an arrow? ie, given exactly the same percentage chance of success, the target will get to fire additional shots?

I don't know how you class the teks as "safer" than an Overlord's typical disposition, both can be attached, both can be in separate units, and while the Overlord may act independently more often you don't have to keep him alive for six turns. (though that's the plan.) Flat-out with a CCB, sure, sometimes, but if a game winning shot presents itself, you don't take it, it's on you - no need to speculate why I'm having good results.

The problem with this discussion is that you have to give the points I make, guys. I'm stipulating to your points, and identifying the circumstances where one approach is better than another. But a lot of what you're saying in this thread are half-truths, not reasoned discussion. More integrity, please.

The banter from my fellow Texans has got a bit of a heated tone to it but both Sasori and Randall make some good points. If you knock out a 120+ vehicle once every four games on the first turn the TA is paying for itself in aggregate. However, like Sasori, I like to stack the deck in my favour. I posted a list last week in Army Lists that stuck two overlords with TA's in a unit with a harp and chrono in a list with a couple of Stalkers. This way I can twin link, chrono, and harp of dissonance my way into so very good odds with the TA.
For full list clicky clicky:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431935.page#3970232

One thing in particular that drew me to the TAs in this list was the unlimited range. General idea is the immortals would footslog a flank furthest from the bulk of the enemy and send their TA/Harp completely unmolested for the first couple turns. After the first couple of turns and the TAs were gone the Overlords would primarily be used as bullet shields.