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If my opponent does not have a scatter die, and asks to borrow mine, would it technically be legal to give him a die with no "Hit" facings?

I can't find anything in the rulebook against it, or any language that specifies what constitutes a scatter die.
I'm well aware that its very unsportsmanlike. In my opinion though, so is requiring that your opponent supply you with tools to beat them.

It wouldn't be a proper scatter die without 2 Hit facings, so no it wouldn't be legal to give him that die. That being said if it is a tournament setting feel free to dock him points for not being prepared for the battle.

Archim3des wrote:If my opponent does not have a scatter die, and asks to borrow mine, would it technically be legal to give him a die with no "Hit" facings?

I can't find anything in the rulebook against it, or any language that specifies what constitutes a scatter die.
I'm well aware that its very unsportsmanlike. In my opinion though, so is requiring that your opponent supply you with tools to beat them.

Seriously? You'd rather cheat than let someone use your dice? Of course there is nothing in the rulebook saying 'don't cheat'. It also doesn't say 'don't punch your opponent in the jimmy'.

That being said 40k is a permissive ruleset, so if you haven't explicitly been given permission to punch your opponent in the jimmy, you probably shouldn't.

You are not obligated to provide your opponent with 'gaming resources.' If you do not plan to DS/Fire Blasts then you could even leave the scatter in your bag or at home.

It is up to them to bring it, if they do not have one, then I guess they effectively forgot the ammunition for their vindicator.

In a serious tournament w/o sportsmanship I would probably tell them to go find their own dice. Not bringing the right equipment is more rude than me refusing to let you borrow mine.

This is a much more hardcore set of responses than I expected to see here.

You really wouldn't let your opponent borrow a scatter die if he forgot his at home, calypso2ts, unless you'd be docked in sports?

I'm competitive as the next guy, but I also like to have fun in a game. If the sports sheet lists 'prepared for game', sure I'm going to dock him, but not lend him a die because he doesn't have one... Weak.

Perfectly legal. And if they need to borrow a tape measure, feel free to replace the tape with a spring-loaded snake. If they need a chair: whoopee cushion. Or, you know, just lend them a proper die and get on with the game.

Wow... this is possibly the most ridiculous topic I have ever seen on any site. If this is a joke, kudos. If not, please do not continue playing in this hobby.

To answer the question, no it's not legal. It is not a legal scatter dice let alone your sportsman morals.

I should have been more concise as to why I would not provide them with dice in a tournament w/o sports. If I provide them with dice, I would check the little box that says 'unprepared' in the sportsmanship score.

If there is no sports score, then I have no way to appropriately penalize them for being unprepared. This is not in casual play or my local RTT, I am talking about a 6 round GT (serious tournament).

They can very easily buy some dice at the tournament and if they did I would not dock them at all for it. All they need to say is 'excuse me I seem to have forgotten my scatter dice, I need to buy some I will be right back.'

If they are not docked for it in some way, then I am just reinforcing bad behavior.

Naturally I would consider mitigating circumstances, but my default response would be to dock them or if I cannot then to tell them to find a scatter dice. They would need to provide the reason to change it.

I also despise the excuse 'It's not my fault'

Edit: I am in no way shape or form advocating providing a 'bad' scatter dice if they ask, if I provide them with gaming resources I am going to do so with legitimate and accurate tools. To do anything else would step over the line (imo) from having high expectations for people to being a jerk.

Please discontinue playing 40k. You are giving tournament players everywhere a bad name.

I understand this post will get me a warning, well worth it.

poor mans scatter die, this is what a group of guys told me to use.

regular d6 1/6 are hits anything else is a scatter

if it scatters where ever the 1side is facing and what what ever angle the dot is at is the direction of the arrow.

i was surprised so i just offered him my scatter die cause i have never heard of such a way before. i don't think its cheating in anyway nor do i care to find out.

calypso2ts wrote:If there is no sports score, then I have no way to appropriately penalize them for being unprepared. This is not in casual play or my local RTT, I am talking about a 6 round GT (serious tournament).

I get what you are saying, I just think that it is a little OTT. This is just a significant difference in opinion in how we approach a simple mistake.

@Bluedagger: No reason to be extreme about it. He's giving his opinion.

No, what the OP is trying to do is cheating. Just be a good sport and let him borrow your normal scatter die.

The minute you cross your arms and say, "No, go find your own scatter die." you'll look down and realize you've forgotten your small blast marker.

There is no reason to condone such things. We are talking about the fact that someone forgot their scatter die.. seriously folks. This isn't a guys being a jerk, this isn't someone who chipped the paint on your model while being an idoit, this isn't a player that threw his dice because his biffed a roll... rather it's someone who forgot their scatter die because they may have dropped it out of their carrying case.

Refusing to allow them to borrow a die or giving them a trick die, speaks infinitely more about that person's sportsmanship failure then the guy that forgot a simple die.

Wouldn't it be pretty easy to just take a regular die and, using a sharpie or pen, write hit on 2 faces and arrows on the others? That's not against any rules is it?

that is poor sportmanship dude just let it go and let him use your scatter dice. Or do as i do (have 4 scatter dice) and curse under your breath at your traitorous die that always hits dead on.

BlueDagger wrote:

Refusing to allow them to borrow a die or giving them a trick die, speaks infinitely more about that person's sportsmanship failure then the guy that forgot a simple die.

This.

As above. People are human, and its easy to forget things.

Plus - not all GTs are played in a shop. We run a 5 round tournament every uyear, and we're a good 20min walk away from any shops

Good job we have sensible players locally.

BlueDagger wrote:

Refusing to allow them to borrow a die or giving them a trick die, speaks infinitely more about that person's sportsmanship failure then the guy that forgot a simple die.

This.

So much this.

Personally, I'd report him to the TO, refuse to play him and get him blacklisted from the local gaming circuit.

No, hang on,

I'd just get a grip and lend him a dice.

If your opponent asks for a scatter die and you say sure and give him a die with no "hit" facings, you haven't actually given him a scatter die. A scatter die is well defined in the rulebook.

Rulebook page 2:

"The scatter dice is marked on four sides with an arrow, and on two sides with a special 'HIT' symbol."

So, no, you can't use anything other than that for a scatter die.


A D6, however, is just defined as a "standard six-sided dice". So, you would be technically correct in using a d6 with every side labeled as six, or even every side labeled as 20. Of course, if that's your plan, be prepared to never find someone willing to play 40k, or any other game or activity of any kind, with you.

Is this a serious thread? Would you honestly not let your opponant use a scatter dice or template if he forgot one?

just FYI this is a game played for fun.... just wow

I'm not sure what is worse, that someone would give their opponent a scatter die without hit facings, or would ask a forum dedicated to rules query if this would be legal. If someone tried that with me, they would immediately be labeled as TFG/WAAC and no one would play with them until they learned better sportsmanship.

curran12 wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Refusing to allow them to borrow a die or giving them a trick die, speaks infinitely more about that person's sportsmanship failure then the guy that forgot a simple die.

This.

So much this.

And even more of this.

calypso2ts wrote:I should have been more concise as to why I would not provide them with dice in a tournament w/o sports. If I provide them with dice, I would check the little box that says 'unprepared' in the sportsmanship score.

If there is no sports score, then I have no way to appropriately penalize them for being unprepared. This is not in casual play or my local RTT, I am talking about a 6 round GT (serious tournament).

They can very easily buy some dice at the tournament and if they did I would not dock them at all for it. All they need to say is 'excuse me I seem to have forgotten my scatter dice, I need to buy some I will be right back.'

If they are not docked for it in some way, then I am just reinforcing bad behavior.

Naturally I would consider mitigating circumstances, but my default response would be to dock them or if I cannot then to tell them to find a scatter dice. They would need to provide the reason to change it.

I also despise the excuse 'It's not my fault'

Edit: I am in no way shape or form advocating providing a 'bad' scatter dice if they ask, if I provide them with gaming resources I am going to do so with legitimate and accurate tools. To do anything else would step over the line (imo) from having high expectations for people to being a jerk.

Anybody who decided to be such an ass in any tournament I was running would be immediately ejected. Forgetfulness happens and can be forgiven. Asshattery happens and should not be rewarded. Grow up a little bit and learn what sportsmanship truly is.

The_Happy_Pig wrote:I'd just get a grip and lend him a dice.

Bobug wrote: FYI this is a game played for fun.... just wow

BlueDagger wrote:There is no reason to condone such things. We are talking about the fact that someone forgot their scatter die.. seriously folks. This isn't a guys being a jerk, this isn't someone who chipped the paint on your model while being an idoit, this isn't a player that threw his dice because his biffed a roll... rather it's someone who forgot their scatter die because they may have dropped it out of their carrying case.

Refusing to allow them to borrow a die or giving them a trick die, speaks infinitely more about that person's sportsmanship failure then the guy that forgot a simple die.

At least the above posts show that there are still a lot of fair minded players left to play out there. Certain Posters have built a scenario around the OP's post that he didn't mention or do you know more than the rest of us? My view is simple, I would loan you the item.

Who knows, next time it may be me that forgets.

I have so many multiple dozens of scatter die, if someone had lost one (as they do go missing) or didn't have it, I would just give them one. During a game, he can totally use mine.

Really, who cares?

I actually lost my GF9 6" multimeaure tool and ended up struggling with some measurements and my opponent actually let me use his and told me I could keep it which was very nice of him. I feel like that tool now has good mojo and use it all the time now.

People do come prepared to tourneys... things also go missing like templates and dice. Doesn't mean the person is a negligent hump.

Looking for ways to ding someone's Sportsmanship score is asshattery of the worst kind, and unfortunately is very common in tournaments from TFGs.

He would eb well within his rights to tank your sportsmanship score for either telling him to feth off and get his own dice or for dinging him for unpreparedness over one dice, IMO.

I have no problem lending my dice, markers, objectives, glue, zipkicker etc. It's a fething game, not a bitchy highschool cheerleader clique

Of course anyone borrowing my scatter dice must accept the 'my scatterdice curse' that will result in every shot scattering off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And offering what is effectively a fail-loaded dice... yeah, nuff said.

Ascalam wrote:


Of course anyone borrowing my scatter dice must accept the 'my scatterdice curse' that will result in every shot scattering off.

I usually notice that cursed dice only affect the owner and will usually only roll hits for opponents thus maintaining the curse upon the owner.

This is why I don't go to tournaments.

I suspect I'm not alone.

I'd like to be judged on my ability to play a game tactically. If I wanted to spend my life arguing nuanced rules in front of indifferent crowds, I'd have become a lawyer. At least then I'd have a nice suit.

Not mine.

The dice gods HATE my scatter dice, and will happily curse anyone else who touches them too

I would much prefer that to mine then, at least then my opponents wont get all hits vs my units.