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Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes





So I'm sick of buying rhinos. They literally cost almost as much in real money as the point value to field them. I would rather field more ranged anti-tank, than field more tanks myself.

Here's my main questions

1. Is it just plain dumb to hope to be competitive and field 1-3 MEQ squads on foot?

2. Will good opponents keep me out of combat until turn 3-4 consistently?

3. Large squads or small squads? (I play CSM so I'm always at x10) But if playing a loyalist codex is (x2)x5 a good or bad idea for footslogging squad.

4. Is there a lot of negative backlash if you fail to seize the initiative starting the game?




My main goal with dropping rhinos is to skim points for more long-ranged dakka. I understand that if my "only goal is go get into combat with my squads" than the rhino is almost necessary.

Anyone with experience involving transport less MEQ squads from any codex?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/01 22:07:50


The purpose of argument is informative discourse, not to see who finishes in front.


 
   
Made in au
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




Australia

I understand what you mean mate, I run a IG army and Ultramarine 4th company, and that's vehicle city so I got sick of buying Chimeras and Rhinos a long time ago!

As for practical advice, you could always grab a few drop pods, similar cost issues but at least its something different. Put some of the fancy sternguard squads inside and let them get shot up while your other forces advance. As for combat squads, great idea in theory, but in practice, they can get shot up pretty bad for not a huge amount of advantage and more fall back tests etc. Sure, you auto regroup, but you can still lose inches!

Try a landraider...or two...my best mate runs two crusaders in a space wolf list and they blow my guard off the board everytime! If nothing else, they are cheaper monet wise for the points.

I don't think that's its dumb to try what your aiming for, but against more competitve players, you'll get spanked more!

You could always try a thunderhawk...?

4th company
The Screaming Beagles of Helicia V
Hive Fleet Jumanji

I'll die before I surrender Tim! 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes





Yeah I feel the same way about Drop Pods as I do rhinos. I'd rather buy a rhino if I was going that direction.

Thanks for the input and I appreciate it. Land Raiders are always an option that I tend to haze over just because their point value.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/01 22:43:04


The purpose of argument is informative discourse, not to see who finishes in front.


 
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





somewhere in the northern side of the beachball

There are two list that I know use footslogging marines. One is thousand sons (I like gift list) and the other fabius bile man pile list.

Neither is competitive but both are fun. TS ditching out gift of chaos 16 times per turn and fabius bile with his 60 str 5 powerarmoured drug addicts which you can pimp out with various icons.

Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.

If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





illuknisaa wrote: and fabius bile with his 60 str 5 powerarmoured drug addicts which you can pimp out with various icons.


Fearless too, so you don't have to worry about pesky things like pinning tests or sweeping advance.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not sure what codices you are considering here.

Razorbacks or drop pods would be a solution.

Vanillareads and scouts or bikes or shrike.
Blood AngelsoA
Dark Angelseathwing or Ravenwing or Dualwing
Space wolves: Logan wing
Black Templar:Normal shooty list but with crusaders just loose not in rhinos or beside lasbacks.
   
Made in au
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




Australia

I've had another idea, one that I plan to use soon, you use that Khan guy with his special rule that lets all infantry units outflank? That would get you closer, quicker and without getting shot to bits!


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I forget his name because I only use Ultramarine characters, but that's just me!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/02 01:05:34


4th company
The Screaming Beagles of Helicia V
Hive Fleet Jumanji

I'll die before I surrender Tim! 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Mpls, MN

You're thinking Khan, and thats only if they're in a Dedicated Transport. The only footslogging SM list I've seen do fairly well is a Horde SM list, and I think it was a BA list at that. Basicly you have around 80+ MEQ models on the board and give your opponent a migraine. Fun to play i will say though

REPENT for tommorrow you DIE!!!!

Chaos


I am Red/Black
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

1.) no 2.) yes 3.) large 4.) no

With a 3+ save, cover only helps you against a small range of weapons, so you're freed up to play more aggressively. All you need to worry about is those things that specifically bust power armor, but that comes pre-ameliorated by the fact that you're bringing a "horde".


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Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre





Richmond, VA

1: Not if your chaos or black templars, or jump pack marines for blood angels

2: Sometimes, but not always.The key is making sure they can't get around you. flood the field. Think orky.

3: The larger the squads, the better. More coverage, more cover.

4: Other than the fact you're not going first, it doesn't matter.

I run foot chaos, and since I don't have any vehicles, the fools running the local meta are stuck using lascannons on marines in cover. Fun times.

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Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Mpls, MN

My bad, i read Khans rules wrong. Troops do get to outflank, as well as dedicated transports. Could be fun with Horde SM, but then you're not starting your 6 ML/Lascannons on the board right away, unless you combat squad and hope you're not playing KP.

REPENT for tommorrow you DIE!!!!

Chaos


I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
<small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>

I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

if you want walking marines it is best to have them ALL walk. dont take any tanks and just have hordes of Meq.

That way all your opponents AT is just picking up 1 mech a turn, probably less with rolling to hit and cover. Try and get 100 meq bodies on the field at 2000 points. If you come close you will probably win.

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Made in us
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader




Pacific NW

Koski wrote:Anyone with experience involving transport less MEQ squads from any codex?


Why yes, with Space Wolves. There recently was a thread about Foot Wolves in this very forum. I even did it for much the same reason (Rhinos are expensive and while I had a glorious 3000 point Space Wolves 'rhino rush' army list in 3rd edition, it apparently didn't survive storage at my parent's house while I was in college).

Koski wrote:1. Is it just plain dumb to hope to be competitive and field 1-3 MEQ squads on foot?


Mech makes things easier. Their more predictable in what they are capable of. They can almost always move their max range for example, while on foot you have a dice roll for running and difficult terrain. This is why competitive players like them. It limits the Luck factor.

How many units you take depends on the size of the game though.

Koski wrote:2. Will good opponents keep me out of combat until turn 3-4 consistently?


Depending on terrain, objectives, and desire... Yes. Keeping you out of combat is not the same as keeping you out of shooting range, even for Rapid Fire.

Koski wrote:3. Large squads or small squads? (I play CSM so I'm always at x10) But if playing a loyalist codex is (x2)x5 a good or bad idea for footslogging squad.


On foot you don't want less than 8 I find. Even then its a bit painful as shooting casualties will see you taking more leadership tests. You're going to want 10+ in a squad, and possibly a larger squad as well (if your Codex allows it).

Koski wrote:4. Is there a lot of negative backlash if you fail to seize the initiative starting the game?


Not at all.


Look, if you are designing an army to be entirely foot based you are starting out with different requirements than a mech based list. There are certain things you have to bring and certain sacrifices you will have to be ready to make, both in list building and when you are on the table. Maneuvering is a lot more complex, especially against other foot lists. Deployment is all kinds of different as well. Going first or second doesn't matter so much, but your first two turns are very important and the game can go south quickly for you if you aren't careful or the enemy is lucky.

I like it because its slightly more of an uphill battle and I find the game too easy except against a few specific opponents in my local area.

The biggest weaknesses? You have to commit to objectives a bit earlier (usually right away) and Tank Shock can be a problem towards the end of the game if you aren't careful. Primarily from lists with Fast Skimmers that may or may not still be floating around (Eldar/Dark Eldar).

I could make a massive post about it to be honest. Surgeon's Law is very much the case with regards to arguments against foot lists. They are workable but you really just have to know the downsides of certain matchups ahead of time so you can try to mitigate them. In a tournament setting you'd have to be a strong player to be able to deal with it.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Exergy wrote:Try and get 100 meq bodies on the field at 2000 points. If you come close you will probably win.


My two lash princes and nine obliterators disagree with you!
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

Kevlar wrote:
Exergy wrote:Try and get 100 meq bodies on the field at 2000 points. If you come close you will probably win.


My two lash princes and nine obliterators disagree with you!


o sure there are armies that can beat 100 meq bodies. but there is always something to rock any scissors.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Westchester, NY

I'd say if you're chaos use fabius, have some obliterators deepstriking in next to your icon and a lot of long range firepower to make sure the enemy comes to you.... and having at least one fast counterassault unit like raptors is good. use large 15 to 20 man squad, take the cheap heavy weapons, probably mark of nurgle, and a lash whip sorcerer hidden in the big squad to pull the enemy in for assault. but b sure to spread out your dudes to protect against blast weapons and to cover the board. the bright side is that in Dawn of war, you can deploy two huge squads in the middle of the field! instead of just one rhino with dudes in it and the rest are screwed, and if some oblits deepstrike they can come in by your icon and pop tanks.

 
   
 
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