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Hey Dakka Dakka
I am returning to 40k after 5 years of absence. Before my break I was still quite new to 40k and playing CSM. With my return I have decided to switch to DE who had always interested me and now more so with the changes they received while I was away.
I understand that DE can be unforgiving and as such am doing a lot of research on them and their Tatica before my first miniatures arrive and I get to a table.

When I finally get an army fielded my main opponents will be three of my friends who now have these last 5 years worth of experience on me. They play GK's, Mech IG and Necrons.
I doubt the games I play with them will stay at the lower point bracket for long so please assume that the games are 1500pts and upwards.

I have grabbed a copy of each codex of theirs to read and will be looking over their own Tatica as well as game records for similar match ups but any tips you can give me for facing these 3 army's would be most welcomed.


If it's any reference my 500pt list that is on order currently is;

2 units of 5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster each in a Venom with Splinter Cannon upgrade. 2x 125pts
1 unit of 9 Wyche with Hekatrix w/ Agoniser accompanied by a Haemonculus with a Liquifier Gun all in a Raider with Flicker Field 250pts
500pts exactly.


Thanks in advance for your advice.

I can't speak for playing against GK or Necrons,, but, I do play IG. When you go against IG, get into them as fast as possible. We cannot handle how fast you get across the table. Once you get us in close combat, we are done.

It really depends vs the GK guy, if he is going Paladin's then you will want 3x Ravager's and lots of Dark Lance fire. If he is playing anything else, the only thing I would really worry bout after that is Pysrifle's & Razor Spam, which Dark Lances again can deal with. Remember to take Haywire Grenades on Wyches. After that its kind of general DE Shooty or Stabby. I rather use Wyches against GK then Warrior Venom spam but it can work. I'm not sure about the Necron stuff but I would say it depends on if he takes the Cannon Barrage Thingies that shoots crazy stuff. Or if he takes a lot of Scarabs. But I can say as a DE player you definitely need 3x Ravager's ASAP(Competitively speaking). Your 500 pt list is great, I like it, it has a mix of shooty and stabby. That can make a lot of games annoying though applying two tactics at once though so you know.

Far as if you are looking toward the future with things you are probably looking at Trueborn with Blasters, Venom Warriors, Wyches. But definitely have at least 2 Ravager's in your 1k most people will tell you 3 though. I think your alright you just have to apply DE correctly at the start, then slowly push over. Your friends play pretty competitive it seems from the army choices. Do you even know the lists they run? Or you just know its GK, IG and Nec and they just bring whatever? Have you sat in on a few of there games to scout out what will possibly be thrown at you?

-Sincerely Viri

I haven't yet had a chance to see much of what they run with.
I will try to get into watch some games when I can but what I know so far from conversations is that the Nec player is approaching 10k worth of models with triple Monoliths and the IG player has a favor towards making an Iron Wall of Tanks. I know very little of what the GK player fields baring what models he had 5 odd years back.
At a guess I would say the Necron player is the most likely to have very competitive lists closely followed by the GK's. IG player is more likely to field chooses he enjoys.

My next purchases will defiantly be a few Ravager's for there I may have to look at whether I want to go CC or Shooty.

Necrons:

You never really know what tactics will be used, because the army lists will vary so widely. Here's some general things to watch out for:

1. Necrons do not scale down well. At 500 points, you really cannot lose. Necrons are almost unplayable at such a low point level. Just make sure you have some reliable anti-tank, and it's game over.

2. Wraiths will ruin your day. They have a 3++, lash whips, 2 wounds, varying wargear, WS 6 and a lot of attacks. They're JI and ignore terrain.

3. Solar Pulses will mean that you and only you will be fighting in the dark for up to two turns.

4. Overlord on Catacomb Command Barges will be swinging a Warscythe and cackling maniacally like the Green Goblin while they destroy your vehicles during the movement phase. All they have to do is pass over even a tiny corner of your vehicle, and the Overlord gets to swing 3 times at Str + 2 + 2D6. Again, this occurs during the movement phase, so they can still potentially get out and assault you. Also, the Barge is fast and AV 13.

5. Crypteks! They do all sorts of wacky stuff. Lanceteks have Assault 1 Str 8 AP 2 36" cannons. Expect to see lots of these. There can be up to 5 Crypteks per Overlord.

6. Deathmarks. I seem to be the only guy that really utilizes these, but just in case, here is what they can do: they get to mark one of your units as their prey. Then, the entire unit gets to hit & wound on a 2+ in shooting and CC against that marked unit. Combine them with a Cryptek that allows teleportation and carries a Str 8 AP 1 flame template, and they become a nasty assassination team. Guard your flanks and protect your backfield heavy weapons crews, because Deathmarks will eat them.

7. Your Lances mean you no longer have to fear the Monolith. It is now a slow-moving piece of terrain. Just don't let it get close.

keep in mind you out range pretty much everything except heavy destroyers by a solid 12". take night fields and you now have an 18" cushion. use it. the key i have found to beating necrons as DE is to focus fire and completly eliminate one unit before moving on. use your speed and range to do so, and try to avoid CC. crons have alot of tricks to negate DE speed. (shooting before you reach CC but after you declare your charge, reducing your init to 1, etc). i would say, just load up as many splinter cannons and lances as possible, and focus fire. word of caution: i have seen imotekh+veil cryptek+immortals do scary things. that unit aside from the ongoing nightfight, and lightning strikes can teleport around, and shoot a good amount of shots. plus they can take a solid beating as well, and even allocate some wounds around. the unit sucks gak in CC though, so charge em with wyches or something to tie em up and prevent more teleporting shenanigans.

but basically, mech up, use speed to stay away while you snipe. dont be afraid to flatout move out of trouble if you get cornered. better to not shoot, and survive, then maybe kill something and get ganked. at the very least you should be able to play to a solid draw.

for GK, same thing kind of. most weapons are 24" aside from dreads. pop those first, or at least knock the weapons off, then focus in on the knights. they tend to only pack storm bolters (str 5) and psycannons at str 7 rending, but psycannons are usually 1 or 2 a squad, depending on the size. palladins i think can have 2 per 5 men, but they are very pricey. same deal tho - focus fire untill something dies, then move on and get the next. presenting alot of targets helps, so load up as many units as you can, get everything a transport and use your speed.

IG are harder. a gunline will out range you, and out shoot you. your best bet here i think is to get up close and personal. gaurd tend to not do well in CC or close range fire fights where they dont get cover. so close the gap fast, and assault everything possibl. even your warriors will have a decent chance of taking down gaurd troopers or heavy weapons, and if your smart with your moves, you should win the mech war as well. try to hit side armor, since most gaurd stuff is high front armor. although with lances - that dosent matter. still i prefer shooting armor 11 over armor 12.

azazel the cat wrote:Necrons:

2. Wraiths will ruin your day. They have a 3++, lash whips, 2 wounds, varying wargear, WS 6 and a lot of attacks. They're JI and ignore terrain.

Wraiths aren't WS6...
The rest of the advice has been good though. Remember to really utilize the excellent range on venoms, particularly when against Necrons. Night shields really help against GKs and 'Crons too.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Necrons:

2. Wraiths will ruin your day. They have a 3++, lash whips, 2 wounds, varying wargear, WS 6 and a lot of attacks. They're JI and ignore terrain.

Wraiths aren't WS6...
The rest of the advice has been good though. Remember to really utilize the excellent range on venoms, particularly when against Necrons. Night shields really help against GKs and 'Crons too.

Plenty of armies struggle with Wraiths, but for Dark Eldar they are right at the bottom of the priority list tbh. Lances instant kill them (yes they get a save, I don't care when I fire 20 S8 shots at you, the unit still dies) and pretty much any DE army is going to be packing enough Venoms to delete a unit of Wraiths in a couple of turns as well. You then also have to factor in that you are faster than him and they need to get into assault to hurt you, and when they do its going to be needing 6's to hit. Beasts still do pretty well against them assuming you get the charge (and put the useless Beastmasters into the Lash Whips to neutralise them) and have some way of keeping wounds off Razorwings (enough Beastmasters and some Khymerae, or a supporting charge to absorb attacks).

If you take Night Shields (which I think were borderline useful when the codex came out, but now well worth it with the increase in use of 24" range shooting from GK and Necrons) then very little in his army can hurt you unless its right in your face, at which point your counter assault units (stuff like Beasts assuming you have them) can jump on him. Lance Crypteks are the biggest concern, since even with Night Shields they will still get range on you (since they can move and shoot), and they will hurt your vehicles badly. Overlords will hurt as well, but are far easier to counter. Firstly they tend to end up right next to you after they sweep attack you, so you just zoom around to his rear and blast him. More importantly he actually has to be able to land on the other side of you, otherwise he can't sweep you. This means that if you can judge your distances well and get your placement right placing your vehicles two deep can stop him attacking you (he would have to land in front, giving you are turn to blast him before he flies over you). The main potential issue with this is the Tesla Arc rule, which usually means your vehicles should be more than 6" apart wherever possible, but with Night Shields you can usually get a turns grace in this regard.

You need to put some BLOS building or ruins or hills on the map, that helps a lot.

Against GK and Crons, you have a range advantage and a speed advantage. Take night shields and dance. Find that sweet spot where you are doing more shooting damage than they are and wittle them down.
Try to kill their longer range stuff and get them to commit and break up their force. Then pounce.
Obviously some GK and crons are different, so knowing their list and codex is an absolute MUST.

Against IG they have a definite range advantage so get as close as possible. stunn things and move on to try to surpress everything they have. Mech IG is a real tough one

Orthien - At 500 points, your necron friend would be a fool to put wraiths in a game that small. Unless it was just one. Honestly, I'd prepare for troop spam. If I was the necron player at 500 points, I'd bring as many immortals as I could and probably a veil-tek. There is not much room for anything else in our army at 500 points. Maybe a CCB or annihilation barge MAYBE! Otherwise, don't expect much variety or competition from the necron player at that level.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Necrons:

2. Wraiths will ruin your day. They have a 3++, lash whips, 2 wounds, varying wargear, WS 6 and a lot of attacks. They're JI and ignore terrain.

Wraiths aren't WS6...
The rest of the advice has been good though. Remember to really utilize the excellent range on venoms, particularly when against Necrons. Night shields really help against GKs and 'Crons too.

My bad, I meant Str 6.

Anyway, Wraiths won't be included at 500 points.

Thanks for the great advice everyone.

I will have to find out some of their list specifics so I can get a solid counter list sorted.

When CC with wyches against IG do as little CC damage as possible to the infantry on round 1. The best way to avoid dumping too many attacks into the infantry is to multi charge a tank. The goal should be to have IG stick around for a 2nd CC phase, and then to slaughter them on the IG assault phase. That keeps your wyches safe in CC. When wyches kill their playthings outright they tend to eat hull mounted Chimera heavy flamers on the next shooting phase.

Also be sure to block access hatches in case you get a can't shoot/stunned/imobolized combo. The squad inside is then stuck inside and won't be able to shoot.

Watch out for Hydras. I only play with one but I my dice turn angry the minute my hydra has a shot on a DE skimmer and it tends to knock one out of the sky every turn. Hydras can't move and shoot both AC so the only real chance DE have of avoiding being shot is 50% of the model being obscured by cover. Also remember besides ignoring flat out for cover saves the range on a hydra is 72" not 48".

The last thing to watch out for is the CCS in a Chimera. It can move 12" and issue orders in a 12" range after popping smoke. The order DE need to concern themselves with the most is fire on my target which forces the reroll of successful cover saves including but not limited to flat out cover saves on skimmers after melta vets dump a trio of BS4 melta shots on one.