Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Drewtavian**

Hi would some one be able to work out the equivalent damage potential of destroyers vs centurions. Are they worth the pts. Do they compare etc.

Thank you for any help on this

**skoffs**

Let's not worry about "how to fix" the issues. There's literally nothing any of us can do about that.
Let's just focus on what's wrong, so people are aware (and if GW stumbles across it, they can figure out how to address those concerns themselves)

**DaKhriS**

Nogil wrote:
torblind wrote:

Consider the following:

Spoiler:

Tomb Sentinel
+Higher T, thou no -1 to hit
+Deepstrike
+Living metal
+Average 3.5 shots from exile cannon, hitting 1.75, wounding almost everything on 3+, flat 3dmg
+Can be equiped with gloom prism for 5pts for some potential anti-psychic
+Good in melee, not great but not bad

Acanthrite
+has -1 to hit in shooting phase
+Fly, can fall back and shoot with its melta, meaning you might be very well in melta range
+Great in melee, 3A per fly at ap -3, shredding MEQ/TEQ
+Has the canoptek keyword, meaning our new lovely stratagem works on them (they can be up to 9 in a squad)
+assault weapon, though short range, but high mobility and high dmg output, even higher if you get within melta range

This doesn't help me choose :p
The stratagem would help me lean to the acanthrites, but Deep Strike straight into short range is quite good.
granted they will prob die next turn, but still, flying acanthrites towards your targets takes time and they have no ++ to help them.

Whichever I'd use would be used alongside Wraiths, Scarabs, Destroyers and Warriors, so I need it as a kind of anti-tank.
Not sure how effective the flies will be in AT (and while rez is ok, we usually don't have CP's to spare).

I get 3 acanthrites for 1 Sentinel..
that's Assault 3 S7 AP-4 D6 melta against Heavy D6 S10 AP-4 3 damage.
T7 versus T5 matters against plasma and heavy bolters and such, but -1 to hit helps against the big shots.

This is a hard choice...

**Nogil**

DaKhriS wrote:
This doesn't help me choose :p
The stratagem would help me lean to the acanthrites, but Deep Strike straight into short range is quite good.
granted they will prob die next turn, but still, flying acanthrites towards your targets takes time and they have no ++ to help them.

Whichever I'd use would be used alongside Wraiths, Scarabs, Destroyers and Warriors, so I need it as a kind of anti-tank.
Not sure how effective the flies will be in AT (and while rez is ok, we usually don't have CP's to spare).

I get 3 acanthrites for 1 Sentinel..
that's Assault 3 S7 AP-4 D6 melta against Heavy D6 S10 AP-4 3 damage.
T7 versus T5 matters against plasma and heavy bolters and such, but -1 to hit helps against the big shots.

This is a hard choice...

Yea I get your feeling, and it is a hard choice.
I like them both, but recently the sentinel has been an almost autoinclude in my army, it such a fantastic and goodlooking model and the deepstrike option with the gloom prism is just fantastic, even though it kinda lacks survivability.
I always deepstrike it, footslogging it would be terrible - deepstriking it gives you many options, waiting a couple of turns, see the enemies movement etc.

And if you want to use the acanthrites i would recommend atleast a squad of 5 (or 2x3), now with our new stratagem, that way if 2 or more die, you can try and res them.
If you go for 3 acanthrites, you need to hide them so they dont die early, your opponents will want to kill them before they get close obviously.

I would say the sentinel is more of a support antitank than an actuall antitank while the acanthrites fill the roll of antitank more - though I use them both as an addition to any other antitank I might have, like a support role for maybe a DDA or TA.
The sentinels have atleast no deteriorating profile! oh and also, charge with them!
One thing to consider with the Acanthrites is the damage of the melta, its D6, given you can reroll the damage with a CP, they can overall deal more damage than the sentinel.

All in all, it comes down to your own playstyle and which model you prefer most, which is most estheticly pleasing.
You could always proxy them and try them in a couple of games? that way you get a more accurate profile of which ever might fit you the most!

**DaKhriS**

On a side note, how do you all equip your Wraiths?
I have 12 of them tot probably use in 2x6.
The whip coils are pretty meh, unless fighting a CC army, to give to 1 of 2 of the 6 who then get kill removed first when in CC.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Particle caster is a S6 pistol to shoot pointblank in CC.
But the Beamer is better at melting MEQ/TEQ but as Wraiths are supposed to be in CC...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot that Transbeamers would be nice for surprise mortal wounds top...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd rather use those Canoptek rez stratagem for my Wraiths tot make them even harder to wipe. The Sentinel would however he quite the fire magnet, as a surprise Carnifex

**Klowny**

I find sentinels average at best, quite easy to kill, 12" heavy d6 hitting on 4's all the time isnt as efficient as a TA, and its much, much stronger than one.

Wraiths I run naked, they dont do enough damage to warrant more shooting damage and are very expensive as it is, but they are very hard to kill, so as cheap as possible to fill their intended role.

In regards to what is broken I find it is the obvious, what has been said:

RP is broke, (seriously, rolling in each players phase is a very quick and easy fix, makes it significantly more powerful without changing the mechanic at all)

We have a very slow army, and our transports rules are broken, meaning half the units are shelved until we get mobility options that work.

We are a very expensive army, which is fine if RP worked properly, but it doesn't so we end up paying too much for nothing. Fix RP, and i feel even then a points decrease would be appreciated.

**Nogil**

Klowny wrote:
I find sentinels average at best, quite easy to kill, 12" heavy d6 hitting on 4's all the time isnt as efficient as a TA, and its much, much stronger than one.

Yea the TA is superior, QS 3+/5++ and regen + its "roll 1 additional dice when charge and remove the highest roll", also great weaponry, they should add it to the ark box, full plastic!

RP is broke, (seriously, rolling in each players phase is a very quick and easy fix, makes it significantly more powerful without changing the mechanic at all)

That wouldn't fix the biggest issue with RP, considering a fully wiped out unit, that problem would still adhere.
It would however work very well with living metal.

What about 3rd editions RP? without the phase out and "double str kills it" etc, if an entire unit is wiped out just roll in the beginning of your turn on a 4+, it stands up where last model died (rougly), otherwise its removed?
Maybe that would be wiffy anyway, idk, just a thought.

**torblind**

What about unit coherency? If the unit moved away 3 turns since the model died?

**SHADOWSTRIKE1**

Hey guys,

I haven't been active in the 40K scene in a few months (shortly after 8th dropped). Anything new come up for Necrons rules-wise? Any recent FAQ or addendum change things for us? I was originally going to sit out until our codex came out, but I want to participate in some events at my local shop, so I figure I better get reacquainted with our latest strategies.

Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

**Requizen**

Yeah if it was something like this I'd be happy:

"Roll a dice for each model in a unit that died. On a 5+ they stand up again.

Additionally, when the last model in a unit dies, instead of removing it from the board, lay it down at that position. At the start of your next turn, roll a Reanimation roll for the model. If you fail the roll, the model is removed from play as normal. If you pass the roll, you may place that model within 1" of the point where it died, more than 3" from enemy models. You may then roll Reanimation for the unit as normal."

This way, killing a unit is still a way to stop it, but for the Necron player, there's still a chance that the unit can come back if it gets focus fired. Especially useful for small units like Tomb Blades, Destroyers, or Praetorians.

**torblind**

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Hey guys,

I haven't been active in the 40K scene in a few months (shortly after 8th dropped). Anything new come up for Necrons rules-wise? Any recent FAQ or addendum change things for us? I was originally going to sit out until our codex came out, but I want to participate in some events at my local shop, so I figure I better get reacquainted with our latest strategies.

Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

You could say that the problem is that too little has happened, the other codices and indeces have sped ahead while we remained, an already weak position getting even weaker.
First post of thread has unit review

**Cmdr_Sune**

Fixing the current RP is tricky since it scales with game point size. Although if they balance it for 1500 - 2000 point games it should work for most situations.

Let's analyse why it doesn't work:
- Unit gets wiped = no RP, forces you to take big units.
- Easy to wipe some units (Warriors, Immortals not in cover, Heavy Destroyers)

When does it work?
- With big tough units (Lychguard, Praetorians, Destroyers, Tomb blades)(The problems these units have doesn't have as much to do with RP as other factors)

So what units are in most need of buffed RP?
- Warriors
- Immortals
- Heavy Destroyers

How can this be fixed?
- Stratagem that allows RP after wipe for Warriors and Immortals only.
- Buff Heavy Destroyers (and Destroyers) to 2+ save. Also helps Destroyer Lord.

How about Dynasty traits?
- -1 to hit will help a lot.
- 6+ fnp will help and will also give a nice buff to vehicles.
- Always in cover would give a nice buff to warriors and Immortals not in cover. Will also make all other units that are hard to get in cover tougher (Tomb blades, Lychguard, vehicles)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
These fixes together with lower prices, fixed transports and more firepower would help tremendously.

The biggest problem remaining will be low amount of CP and no cheap troops to use as screens.

If we just could have another troop choice below warriors costing 6-7 points.

**Nogil**

torblind wrote:
What about unit coherency? If the unit moved away 3 turns since the model died?

Sorry, I meant if the entire unit was wiped out, then you could still res them (like in 3rd edition necron) and place them roughly where they died.

**SHADOWSTRIKE1**

torblind wrote:
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Hey guys,

I haven't been active in the 40K scene in a few months (shortly after 8th dropped). Anything new come up for Necrons rules-wise? Any recent FAQ or addendum change things for us? I was originally going to sit out until our codex came out, but I want to participate in some events at my local shop, so I figure I better get reacquainted with our latest strategies.

Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

You could say that the problem is that too little has happened, the other codices and indeces have sped ahead while we remained, an already weak position getting even weaker.
First post of thread has unit review

Bummer. The reason I took a break was because I felt we were a bit too vulnerable and wanted to wait for our codex. I was hoping that if anything, other factions' codices would balance them a bit more, but from what I've heard, it's only helped them.

**Requizen**

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
torblind wrote:
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Hey guys,

I haven't been active in the 40K scene in a few months (shortly after 8th dropped). Anything new come up for Necrons rules-wise? Any recent FAQ or addendum change things for us? I was originally going to sit out until our codex came out, but I want to participate in some events at my local shop, so I figure I better get reacquainted with our latest strategies.

Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

You could say that the problem is that too little has happened, the other codices and indeces have sped ahead while we remained, an already weak position getting even weaker.
First post of thread has unit review

Bummer. The reason I took a break was because I felt we were a bit too vulnerable and wanted to wait for our codex. I was hoping that if anything, other factions' codices would balance them a bit more, but from what I've heard, it's only helped them.

When 8th came out, I was singing praises because everything we got was either a sidegrade or a straight upgrade from 7th edition. However, we went up, but other armies went up more, leaving us behind.

Looks like we should get a book Jan or Feb, though, so it's not too long a wait.

**skoffs**

You guys seem to want to spend a lot of time focusing on theoretical fixes.
That kind of discussion might be best had in the proposed rules section-

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/16.page

As for the current actually situation,

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

Almost always taken =
• Tesla Immortals buffed with MWBD (probably from an Overlord)
• Scarabs
• Tesseract Arks
• Big Pylon (less so, now)
Pretty good =
• Gauss Tomb Blades
• Wraiths
• Named C'tan
• Triarch Stalkers
• Doomsday Arks
Has its uses =
• Warriors
• Annihilation Barges
• Praetorians
SHOULD be good, but something wrong =
• Destroyers
• Flayed Ones
• Deathmarks

Everything else is pretty rarely if ever considered because they don't really perform.

**DaKhriS**

Requizen wrote:
Yeah if it was something like this I'd be happy:

"Roll a dice for each model in a unit that died. On a 5+ they stand up again.

I don't want our exclusive mechanic to become a FnP, too much of those already... Of do you only intend this after a wipe and in addition tot the normal RP?

**torblind**

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

...

Bummer. The reason I took a break was because I felt we were a bit too vulnerable and wanted to wait for our codex. I was hoping that if anything, other factions' codices would balance them a bit more, but from what I've heard, it's only helped them.

It seems their strategy has been to dump down the powerful codices from 7th, and then use codices to adjust them back up. Just sucks to be last codex up.

**Odrankt**

DaKhriS wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Yeah if it was something like this I'd be happy:

"Roll a dice for each model in a unit that died. On a 5+ they stand up again.

I don't want our exclusive mechanic to become a FnP, too much of those already... Of do you only intend this after a wipe and in addition tot the normal RP?

The problem with "fixing" Reanimation Protocols is what do GW need to fix?

1.Do they move it to another phase to make it work better?
2.Do they allow all RP units to never go below 1 model to prevent RP from never working?
3.Do they make RP harder for units that got wiped e.g. a unit of 10 warriors is wiped and instead of never coming back they now RP on 6+ only and can be buffed to a 5+ via Cryptek.
4. Do they let us RP wiped units but set up the unit within ,3" of our table edge?
5. Do they give us 7th edit. RP back and just nake it a FnP but with current rules e.g. models that die turn 1 and still come back in other turns until the unit is wiped.

RP is probably at it's best atm in terms of how the rule for it works in that we can always bring models back in later turns and everything comes back with Full wounds. The issue is the wording, what happens to expensive wiped units and how it affects our models interms of points and playability.

**Grimgold**

Fixing repair protocols is tricky, without some way to bypass it, necrons would be unkillable, but the current way it's handled it's trivial to bypass on units that matter. Frankly GW has painted themselves in a corner, and I don't think anyone is going to be happy with how it's fixed.

Instead I think we are going to see a stratagem that lets you blow CP to make RP rolls for a unit that gets wiped out. that way necrons can save a valuable unit, but it won't make them unkillable since a stratagem can only be used once per phase and there is a limited number of times it can be used. It will cost 3 CP since the reroll ones stratagem cost 2 CP. So once or twice a battle we can basically ignore an opponent's concentrated fire.

That will allow us to limp along with the current RP rules, but doesn't address our other issues. QoL issues like the range on cryptek auras (which will probably be fixed), and how MWBD blows compared command auras (which will probably not be fixed). However if they get the points adjustment correct I can live with those issues as being overcost is one of our main issues.

**arhurt**

What's the best weapon to use against Quantum shielding? I was thinking Auto Cannon, but then the S is 6 so it wounds on a 5+

Is it plasma cannon?

**Arachnofiend**

Necron vehicles are T6 and the autocannon is S7, so it's wounding on a 3+.

**skoffs**

Fixing

Please knock off the proposed rules discussion in the tactics thread.

**Halfpast_Yellow**

Necrons are plenty vulnerable to Plasma, because it wounds on 3+ and does either 1 or 2 damage which evades quantum shielding.

T8 Monolith is better able to withstand Plasma, but then it presents a nice fat target for Lascannons, so it's swings and roundabouts.

**Maelstrom808**

skoffs wrote:
Fixing

Please knock off the proposed rules discussion in the tactics thread.

While I agree with what you are trying to do, leave the modding to the mods. Report the posts and leave it at that. Red Text of "OBEY" is their gig, not ours.

**skoffs**

It was more so it would be seen this time.
(Had already mentioned it twice before but apparently it hadn't been noticed)

**sieGermans**

skoffs wrote:
It was more so it would be seen this time.
(Had already mentioned it twice before but apparently it hadn't been noticed)

I think a lot of these proposed fixes are hypotheticals to illustrate the problem currently. They aren’t proposed rules, per se, but talking points around the issue.

**Cmdr_Sune**

skoffs wrote:

As for the current actually situation,
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Can someone give me a quick rundown of generally what units we've deemed as not very useful and the ones that are must-haves?

Spoiler:

Almost always taken =
• Tesla Immortals buffed with MWBD (probably from an Overlord)
• Scarabs
• Tesseract Arks
• Big Pylon (less so, now)
Pretty good =
• Gauss Tomb Blades
• Wraiths
• Named C'tan
• Triarch Stalkers
• Doomsday Arks
Has its uses =
• Warriors
• Annihilation Barges
• Praetorians
SHOULD be good, but something wrong =
• Destroyers
• Flayed Ones
• Deathmarks

Everything else is pretty rarely if ever considered because they don't really perform.

What I try to always include:
Tesla Immortals
Scarabs
Tomb blades - Both Gauss and Tesla are good.
Deathmarks - Used to harass and grab objectives.
CCB - My prefered HQ because of the large aura and it can actually do something compared to the normal OL.
(TA - Don't own any, but I guess they would be here.)
(Tomb Sentinel - Seems to be obe of Necrons best units.)

After I have taken the above mentioned units I also include some of the following:
Wraiths - Good to lock up enemy vehicles and units. Too bad the stratagem is 2CP, if it was 1CP I would always include them.
Destroyers - Large unit incl. 1 heavy. Their mobility and move and fire is the key. Combine this with a CCB with res orb and you are good to go.
Stalkers - With gauss. Perhaps one with heat ray if you push it forward.
Heavy destroyers - If buffed by a OL and placed in cover where not many units can see them they are a solid choice. Reliable shooting... if you manage to wound.
Deceiver - The redeploy is strong and combine this with the Veil gives you a mobile army.
DDAs - Amazing at times and other times they do nothing. The reason why I usually take one is that they are often a priority target for your opponent and can take a lot of damage. Would I use Tomb sentinels or TAs I would leave out the DDA.

What I don't take (anymore):
Cryptek - If I field a battalion I might include a Cryptek, but another OL might be the best bet.
Annihilation barge - I would really like for these to come down in price because I believe they can be viable thanks to 12" move, fly and QS.
Praetorians - Also a unit I would really like to use. 12" move would help and so would a Dynasty keyword. 10 Praetorians accompanied by a CCB with res orb would be nice, but expensive.
Nightbringer - Too slow. In an expensive army there are better choices.
Warriors - Nope
Special characters - Haven't really used them so I have no opinion on these
Everything else - Nope

**Requizen**

I would be ok with the price of Destroyers, Praets, Lychguard, etc if they reduced all incoming damage by half. Too expensive for multiwound models considering everything has D3 or D6 damage readily available.

**DaKhriS**

Requizen wrote:
I would be ok with the price of Destroyers, Praets, Lychguard, etc if they reduced all incoming damage by half. Too expensive for multiwound models considering everything has D3 or D6 damage readily available.

What if Destroyers were 2+ or had 5 wounds