Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Do the IG have elite units, such as a kind of Spartan, or are the Stormtroopers and Kasrkin the only real elites?

Some regiments are just better than others. In terms of fluff, Cadians are supposed to be the best of the Imperial Guard. As for special troop types that aren't stormtroopers, the best you've got is the Imperial Guard veterans.

In the fluff the Crusade-era Imperial Army had (seemingly) elite formations like the Geno-Five-Two-Chiliad, who possessed limited genetic enhancement and suchlike. Whether such units still exist in the 41st millennium Imperial Guard, however, is anybody's guess.

After a fashion all of the fleshed-out Guard regiments (Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, Valhallans, Tallarn, etc.) are portrayed as "elite" by the Guard's standards - they are at least depicted in the fluff winning battles, rather than being slaughtered to a man before the Astartes arrive.

Storm Troopers and Kasrkin tend to be the elite soldiers of the Guard. They are considered in some fluff to have training similar to Astartes without all of genetic enhancements, and equipment. Commissar Cadet squads are highly elite units that operate in the Guard, though the they aren't represented on the table top.

Grenadiers are considered elite in most Guard regiments also, and can be represented by Veteran Squads with the Grenadiers upgrade on the table top.

Commissars aren't really front-line troops, though. They're morale and discipline officers, and ensure that the actual soldiers around them are fighting their hardest and the command staff's orders are being carried out... while making sure that the officers themselves are living up to the examples their rank should make them.

I'm not really sure I would consider them an "elite fighting force" in the same way that a Stormtrooper or Kasrkin is, as a Commissar's job is not really combat-centric.

ironhand45 wrote:Do the IG have elite units, such as a kind of Spartan, or are the Stormtroopers and Kasrkin the only real elites?

Storm Troopers are the IG's most elite soldiers. Kasrkin are the Cadian equivalents, born and bred on Cadia and attatched permanently to the regiments of that world.

The way I tend to think of it, is that if the average Guardsman can be roughly equated to a regular Army soldier, then Cadians are perhaps USMC or US Army Rangers, and Storm Troopers are SAS/Green Berets. Of course, it's not a perfect fit, and there are other more overt comparisons (*cough* Catachans-as-Vietnam-GIs *cough*).

Does anyone remember that crazy albino special ops IG group? I think it was in the WD with alternate doctrines like the beastmen upgrade for conscripts?

I think it was something about genetic engineering related to the inquisition? I think they may have been drop troops with something involving exceptionally bad luck and night fighting?

Am I full of the crazies?

They were called "Afriel Strain Troopers".

They weren't "genetically engineered", they hailed from a world with pretty much nothing but darkness. They had no actual eyes and were albinos. Extremely proficient tunnel fighters; but something about them was always "off" to the regular Guardsmen.

Cool, thanks for the correction.

Psienesis wrote:Commissars aren't really front-line troops, though. They're morale and discipline officers, and ensure that the actual soldiers around them are fighting their hardest and the command staff's orders are being carried out... while making sure that the officers themselves are living up to the examples their rank should make them.

I'm not really sure I would consider them an "elite fighting force" in the same way that a Stormtrooper or Kasrkin is, as a Commissar's job is not really combat-centric.

In the fluff, Commissariat Cadet squads sometimes get attached to other regiments and they function as elite units while they're their.

Were they (the Afriel Strain, that is) not also supposedly clones of various Imperial heroes, of am I confusing them with something else?

I'm looking to see if I can find the WD in my collection, might be a bit though.

I remember there was a mystery surrounding them and possible cloning, like the english assassin says. Think the fluff was that the experiment to create them was something of a failure or distasteful and they were shunned by other regiments. Were supposed to be represented as more high tech than other guardsmen. Pretty sure they have eyes but are albinos. Remember thinking they were pretty cool. They appeared in an article on Abhuman units within the imp guard



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I remember there was a mystery surrounding them and possible cloning, like the english assassin says. Think the fluff was that the experiment to create them was something of a failure or distasteful and they were shunned by other regiments. Were supposed to be represented as more high tech than other guardsmen. Pretty sure they have eyes but are albinos. Remember thinking they were pretty cool. They appeared in an article on Abhuman units within the imp guard

One of those great footnotes in the 40k universe that could have been explored... While 3rd edition didn't do great things to the game, I really loved those WD extra entries w/ supplementary rules that were around in 3rd.

bmoleski wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Commissars aren't really front-line troops, though. They're morale and discipline officers, and ensure that the actual soldiers around them are fighting their hardest and the command staff's orders are being carried out... while making sure that the officers themselves are living up to the examples their rank should make them.

I'm not really sure I would consider them an "elite fighting force" in the same way that a Stormtrooper or Kasrkin is, as a Commissar's job is not really combat-centric.

In the fluff, Commissariat Cadet squads sometimes get attached to other regiments and they function as elite units while they're their.

If by "elite units" you mean "Commissars", then, yes, that's true.

They're not storming the beaches or standing as the tip of the spear of a massed infantry assault (like Stormtroopers) or standing face-to-face with daemonic troops and talking smack (like Kasrkin)... that's simply not what Commissars Who Aren't Named Gaunt do.

the DkoK can be seen as Elite.

Utterly fearless soldiers mass produced with vita-wombs purely for war. So hardcore they nuked their own planet to hell and back and still badass enough to keep fighting.

bmoleski wrote: Commissar Cadet squads are highly elite units that operate in the Guard, though the they aren't represented on the table top.

I thought I read somewhere once that commissar cadets served as storm troopers? Or that many/most commissar cadets were chosen from the storm trooper regiments?

No. Both Commissars and Stormtroopers come from the Schola Progenium programs, but one goes either to the Commissariat or the Storm Trooper Regiment, not both.

its kind of like the exceptional individuals become Commissars and the less exceptional ones become Stormtroopers.

Both are highly indoctrinated and hard bitten.

Eh, sorta. A Commissar needs a totally different set of skills than a Stormtrooper. Nahum Ludd, for example, was a Junior Commissar, but had never been in combat until Ancreon Sextus, if I remember correct.

Grey Templar wrote:the DkoK can be seen as Elite.

Utterly fearless soldiers mass produced with vita-wombs purely for war. So hardcore they nuked their own planet to hell and back and still badass enough to keep fighting.

Quite so and their skill with the sword & bayonet is unmatched amongst the Guard (which is why DKoK get WS4 in their FW list). But the DKoK are rather unique compared to most other IG formations.

As far as augmentation & so on goes, there are cases in 40k of Guard regiments being 'augmented' to suit the battlefield they're fighting on. Best example I can grab is Sergeant Stone, a 'Gland War Veteran' of the 23rd Lostok fighting on Dantis III. Guardsmen of several companies had injectors & secretion glands placed into their bodies by TechPriests to allow them to survive without external protection in Dantis III's hellish environment as well as boosting their combat skills.

Would the DKoK or Kasrkin units deploy squads to destroy high valued targets like a comm jammer or a certain gun. Or maybe even a boarding action of some sort?

Kasikrin yes.

DkoK would just conduct a frontal assault or blast it with their artillery. Boarding, yeah they would probably be up for that.

Psienesis wrote:

bmoleski wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Commissars aren't really front-line troops, though. They're morale and discipline officers, and ensure that the actual soldiers around them are fighting their hardest and the command staff's orders are being carried out... while making sure that the officers themselves are living up to the examples their rank should make them.

I'm not really sure I would consider them an "elite fighting force" in the same way that a Stormtrooper or Kasrkin is, as a Commissar's job is not really combat-centric.

In the fluff, Commissariat Cadet squads sometimes get attached to other regiments and they function as elite units while they're their.

If by "elite units" you mean "Commissars", then, yes, that's true.

They're not storming the beaches or standing as the tip of the spear of a massed infantry assault (like Stormtroopers) or standing face-to-face with daemonic troops and talking smack (like Kasrkin)... that's simply not what Commissars Who Aren't Named Gaunt do.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commissar#Commissar_Training_Squads

Commissars in training fight in the fiercest battles so they can learn what the soldiers they are going to be inspire and disciple some day have to go through.

"Commissar Training Squads" aren't exactly mentioned in fluff these days.

Absense of mention doesn't mean they don't exist anymore.


Maybe GW feels they don't need to go into more fluff because it already exists.

Fluff only gets invalidated if directly contradicted.

Or it doesn't get mentioned because they don't exist anymore.

It seems like the best commissar-cadets gets promoted straight out of the schola. While the less spectacular serve as Cadet-Commissars in training squads. Well promotion from cadet to full is totally on the whim of a Commissar-General so you can have a guy at 150 still being a Commissar-Cadet because his Commissar-General doesn't promote him (Oktar laid that plan with Gaunt though that was with love).

I would say the PDF are the Imperium's Territorial Army in terms of size and training, while the massed bulk of Guardsmen, regardless of world, reflect standard army units with Stormtroopers as Marines/SAS. Although Guardsmen from different worlds may have varying skill levels, they're identical in role.

I would say, in terms of individual skill alone, DKoK and Valhallans represent lower-tier armies while Cadians, Catachans, Tanith and similar are at the top with Stormtroopers and Kasrkin as the very best.

TrollPie wrote:I would say, in terms of individual skill alone, DKoK and Valhallans represent lower-tier armies

The individual skill of each Korpsman is very high. They're good shots & excellent bayonet fighters. In game terms this is represented in their army list as basic Korpsmen having BS3 (as standard for Guard) and WS4, displaying their fearsome capability with their bayonets.