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Like, I'm sure there's a really simple answer that I'm just not seeing, but...

I'm really new to 40k. I've played all of 6 games and I have a small Dark Eldar force that I really like, but I can't seem to figure out how to use them against the big bulky marine armies. The only unit I have any success with is Incubi and my Agonizer Hekatrix/Archon. All the rest of my weapons sort of bounce off, and trying to rapid fire at a marine squad with kabalites doesn't get me anywhere than a whole bunch of bolter rounds to the face. I've got a few blasters and lances, which're nice, but they're still only one shot per turn. Is there some secret weapon/unit/upgrade/whatever that I don't realize makes Marines easier to fight?

Right now I have an Archon with an agonizer, 20 Warriors w/ Raiders, 8 Wyches+Agonizer Hekatrix that go in a raider, and 5 Incubi with their own raider who the archon usually goes with. I usually end up playing against CSM and Space Wolves with troop-happy lists; the chaos player has a thing for plague marines and Vindicators.

What do? :s

4 x Trueborn with Blasters in a Venom with the second Splinter Cannon upgrade is a pretty decent unit that are effective against pretty much anything.

Beastmasters with Razorwings can help against Plague Marines in combat as they have rending attacks. As you have discovered, Incubi are a nightmare for marines to deal with in combat.

Liquifier guns are nice on marines as well as multiple squads unleashing splinter hell. Ravagers are good anti tank units, the list goes on...

It's fair to say a well built/used DE list can be darn effective at shredding power armour.

Maybe post a list of what you are using and let people see if they can advise you some more.

Boar

DE have a pretty easy time with marines and CSM. Ravagers and Raiders open up the transports while venoms gun down the infantry.

Plague Marines still die to Splinter fire or you can sue trueborn with blasters. A wych squad wont do too badly either if it has an agonizer in it.

If you are thinking of Kabalite Warriors as a damage producer, that is your problem. Take small 5 man squads with a blaster. Think of it as a blaster with 4 ablative wounds that can capture objectives.

Vaelidaar wrote:trying to rapid fire at a marine squad with kabalites doesn't get me anywhere than a whole bunch of bolter rounds to the face

Bad tradeoff.

DE excel in small games due to their easy access to superior long-range firepower, and it's this aspect you'll likely want to focus on.

1st step: cripple his AT. Most Codex armies rely on their vehicles for AT. Be sure to include a (couple of) Ravager(s) or something to deal with that posthaste.
2nd step: cripple his Transports. More Ravagers is never a bad idea. Once relegated to footslogging, muhreen infantry are easy pickings for your Splinter Cannons.
(3rd step: ) Incubi are exceptionally good against muhreens. At <1500pts battles, you probably won't have room for them though.

tl;dr: Stack up on Ravagers and Venoms, and abuse the hell out of 12" Move/36" Range.

With what you have I would give the Archon an Agonizer and a Shadowfield. Put him with the Incubi and when the time comes to disembark and assault break the Archon off and engage a seperate unit. I find that an Archon with Incubi hitting one unit is overkill. The Archon and Incubi tend to be standing there in the open after chewing up whatever you hit with them.

If most of the Marines you play are foot-slogging and very low on vehicles, you could replace the Dark Lances on your transports with Disintegrators.

I've also heard that Monoscythe Missiles are great at it. They don't cut through Power Armo(u)r, but you're forcing so many saves that it'll do the job against just about anything.

I think part of it depends on what else you're willing to invest in, money-wise. Dark Eldar has answers, they may just not be in the models you have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking over what you have again, you might want to look into Huskblade/Soul Trap. Seems quite good once you get it going. More as a general thing rather than specifically to murder Marines.
Speaking of the Archon, might want to drop his reitune down to four and put them in a Venom. More anti-infantry if you give it Splinter Cannons.

Like you, im still getting used to DE. However, last night I crushed a marine army @750 points. Even though they stole initiative to go first, I controlled the entire game. There were 3 objectives and by the end of turn 4 I controlled 2 and tabled him.

The first thing to realize is that you absolutely need cover. Keep everything you can between you and your opponent until you are ready to strike.

Next, proxy the archon as a haemoncullus. I played probably 15 games tryin to make an archon work at less than 1k points. With webway, without, various wargear.. It didn't seem to matter. As soon as he poked his head out he went splat.

The haemi will give you an extra paint token to pass onto the group he's with. Very important. Drop your wyches down to 9 and make him ride with them. The FNP you get from the token will help.

Next, get a venom and put the incubi in that. Use the splinter canons to soften the target and incubi to crush their big guys.

Warriors are pretty good against marines. Give one a dark lance or blaster to help with big targets.

Now I haven't had much luck with dark lances on my raiders. Each raider manages to have exactly one dl shot land each game. That said, swap it out for disintegrator canons.

Target selection is important. So is position. Divide and conquer: that means try and split their army do that you can bring your full force to bear on only part of theirs leaving as much of their army as possible with nothing to do.

You might try proxying one of your raiders for a Ravager. 3 dl shots usually mean one goes through. Lately I have been reserving a Ravager that way it gets a shot off before taking fire. Try to get it in cover and pop whatever you can.

The game I mentioned:
Haemi + 9 wyches in raider wih flicker
10 warriors in raider with flicker
3 trueborn with blasters in venom
3 trueborn with blasters in venom
Ravager

Marines:
Libby
5 terminators ( with sarge)
5 marines ( with sarge )
5 marines
8 marines ( with sarge)
Predator

I lost one venom, one raider, one trueborn and one wyche. He lost everything.

I stayed in cover and came out onl when I had a clear advantage.

clively wrote:Now I haven't had much luck with dark lances on my raiders. Each raider manages to have exactly one dl shot land each game. That said, swap it out for disintegrator canons.

Dissies are only good in a world without transport and cover. Dark lances on Raiders are perhaps the best firepower availible to DE as you never overspend. Occationally a ravager or trueborn will all hit, all pen and overkill something. With Single dark lances sometimes you wiff but if you stun or destroy something you can start shooting at other things.

For those plagues you wanna take disintegrator cannons on some of your transports. Remember that ap 1-2 removes FNP so maybe give the incubi raider a disintegrator and make them both attack those plagues to negate their armour and their FNP.
Don't over rely on them though as I learnt quick that sticking just disintegrators on my units quickly causes my downfall, dark-lances are still essentials.
I personally have disi's on my transports and lances on the ravagers and razorwings. I haven't tried trueborn yet but I have heard good things about them so they are likely worth it for the vindicators (although no idea if you deep-strike them or what).
I think liquifier guns are great in transports too, although havent run them myself so once again that is only what ive heard.

One other quick thing: Don't get attached to your units.

What I mean by this is that each unit is a weapon with a given life span and purpose. Kind of like a knife you throw at someone. If it hits, it'll do damage. Regardless, once released you aren't getting it back so no point giving it a pearl handle..

For example, consider a unit of Reavers. Their primary "weapon" is that they move extremely fast. Normally, I will take a group for late game objective grabbing. I'll reserve them and hide them somewhere behind cover on the board. They'll pop out (and back again) in order to take pot shots until its time to hustle to the objective.

However, a few games back my opponent had placed a group of 5 long fangs in the corner with missile launchers. Those missiles where going to rain hell on my raiders/venoms/ravagers and due to my deploymnet and lack of terrain I had to cross a wide open space in order to get close enough to deal with them.

So, I sent a group of 3 Reavers up. This gave me a bit of cover while I moved a raider w/wyches + haemi into place. The long fangs tore the reavers a new one, but when my turn came around I was close enough to hit them with a DL, 9 splinter pistols and then close combat.. They died.

Point is, although my normal game plan was to keep those reavers back I absolutely had to rethink my strategy to deal with a threat that could have downed most of my vehicles within a turn or two. The solution was to give up 66 points in order to buy time to save another 500 points or so in vehicles.

Against marines I have found kabilite gunboats with splinter racks absolutely shred them.

I also have found that 1 archon with agonizer+ blast pistol and 1 klivex with blood stone and 3 incubi all in a venom absolutely wreck any space marine squad in combat.


Take all of this with a pinch of salt

Mr.Pirate wrote:Against marines I have found kabilite gunboats with splinter racks absolutely shred them.

Precisely. Many armies can make a legitimate decision on whether to put Troops in a transport- sadly, with DE, it's a must. When your Troops are so flimsly and yet so expensive, you need that added speed and protection.

Mr.Pirate wrote:I also have found that 1 archon with agonizer+ blast pistol and 1 klivex with blood stone and 3 incubi all in a venom absolutely wreck any space marine squad in combat.

Have you tried fighting Assault Terminators yet?

As Dark Eldar we take care of marines the same way we take care of everything else.

Lots of poison, lance and haywire hits.
Be it ranged or in CC.

It's the nice thing about DE, we don't really care who we face for what our weapons can do, it's pretty much all hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's, glancing on 2-5 / 4's, penning on 6s /5+'s.

Ovion wrote:As Dark Eldar we take care of marines the same way we take care of everything else.

Lots of poison, lance and haywire hits.
Be it ranged or in CC.

It's the nice thing about DE, we don't really care who we face for what our weapons can do, it's pretty much all hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's, glancing on 2-5 / 4's, penning on 6s /5+'s.

Not to mention Dark Lances. Rains on people's parade any time...

Cameron Baum wrote:Rains on people's parade any time...

Black Templar