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Had an interesting mention of the interaction between Crowe's Cleansing Flame and Master Swordsman rule:

As per the GK FAQ:
Q: Is Cleansing Flame a shooting attack or a close
combat attack? (p31)
A: A close combat attack.

And Master Swordsman States:
His (Crowe's) close combat attacks have the Rending special rule, and will rend on a to Wound roll of 4 or more.

So if all Crowe's close combat attacks rend on a 4+, and Cleansing Flame is a close combat attack that wounds on a 4+, does that mean when Crowe uses Cleansing Flame he ignores armour saves? Seems somewhat beardy to claim his psychic attack of holy fire suddenly ignores armour saves because he's good with a sword. But of course, on the other hand it seems silly Wyches get their invulnerable save against a blazing inferno because they're agile.

What do you guys think?

It seems to interact.
Nasty.

by that i would say yes as well, very deadly

It doesnt "to wound" on a 4+, it causes a wound on a roll of a 4+, meaning no rends

As much as I'd like it to rend, I have to agree with nos

nosferatu1001 wrote:It doesnt "to wound" on a 4+, it causes a wound on a roll of a 4+, meaning no rends

That does indeed seem to be the dealbreaker. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm, a member of another forum mentioned Sniper weapons. They also have the wording 'wound on a roll of 4+' instead of a 'to Wound roll', and are also Rending. Same with poisoned weapons.

Actually sniper weapons modify the to wound roll to always wound on a 4+. To quote: "Sniper hits wound on a roll of 4+, regardless of target Toughness."

While Cleansing Flame causes a wound on a 4+ roll. To quote: "... suffer one wound on a roll of 4+."

It's only a slight difference in wording, but it means that sniper weapons are still doing a "to wound roll that causes a wound on a 4+" while cleansing flame is a "4+ roll that causes a wound". So in the latter case you aren't doing a "to wound" roll while in the sniper case you are (and rending only happens on "to wound" rolls).

Plus for cleansing flame he does not use the sword. It's similar in that regard to any character who has multiple weapons. The cf weapon if you will is his mind.

Redemption wrote:Hmm, a member of another forum mentioned Sniper weapons. They also have the wording 'wound on a roll of 4+' instead of a 'to Wound roll', and are also Rending. Same with poisoned weapons.

Sniper weapons roll to hit, then roll to wound - they successfully wound on a to wound roll of a 4+, rending on a 6.
Same with Poison weapons.

Cleansing Flame rolls a bunch of dice, and causes a wound if the dice come up a 4+. That's not a To Wound roll, it's a Cleansing Flame roll that causes wounds.

rigeld2 wrote:

Redemption wrote:Hmm, a member of another forum mentioned Sniper weapons. They also have the wording 'wound on a roll of 4+' instead of a 'to Wound roll', and are also Rending. Same with poisoned weapons.

Sniper weapons roll to hit, then roll to wound - they successfully wound on a to wound roll of a 4+, rending on a 6.
Same with Poison weapons.

Cleansing Flame rolls a bunch of dice, and causes a wound if the dice come up a 4+. That's not a To Wound roll, it's a Cleansing Flame roll that causes wounds.

Agreed. While both are worded nearly the same, the two rules refer to two fundamentally different processes (rolling to Wound as per Shooting or Assault rules versus a special effect resulting from a specific roll - in this case an automatic wound).

Draigo wrote:Plus for cleansing flame he does not use the sword. It's similar in that regard to any character who has multiple weapons. The cf weapon if you will is his mind.

The Sword has nothing to do with the Master Swordsmen special rule. if somehow the Blade of Antwer was taken away from Crowe he would still have the Master Swordsmen rule, his fists would rend on a 4+

Grey Templar wrote:

Draigo wrote:Plus for cleansing flame he does not use the sword. It's similar in that regard to any character who has multiple weapons. The cf weapon if you will is his mind.

The Sword has nothing to do with the Master Swordsmen special rule. if somehow the Blade of Antwer was taken away from Crowe he would still have the Master Swordsmen rule, his fists would rend on a 4+

Point being they're seperate and I doubt his fists wound rend but ya never know. lol

Tycho's fists are power weapons.

Hmmm.... Rending fists! maybe I have them! *punches wall* Jesus Christ! Stupid freakin' wall, let me rend you!!!

Only JCVD has rending fists... And rending splits...

If you read crowes fluff it says he doesn't use the sword but protects it from the clutches of evil. So indeed his fists rend the sword is a supremely daemonic weapon that if used could consume a mans being.

decoste007xt wrote:If you read crowes fluff it says he doesn't use the sword but protects it from the clutches of evil. So indeed his fists rend the sword is a supremely daemonic weapon that if used could consume a mans being.

A Grey Knight with a daemon weapon? HERESY!

No fluff in the universe can justify this, it flies in the face of everything about the grey knights. Immune to curruption or not. Whole guard regiments have been executed for less.

Sorry rant over, I just strongly dislike even the idea of Crowe and his daemon weapon. The designer should have been shot by the nearest commissar... I know, I read the background. Still Heresy... *mumble* *grumble* *heretics*

grendel083 wrote:

decoste007xt wrote:If you read crowes fluff it says he doesn't use the sword but protects it from the clutches of evil. So indeed his fists rend the sword is a supremely daemonic weapon that if used could consume a mans being.

A Grey Knight with a daemon weapon? HERESY!

No fluff in the universe can justify this, it flies in the face of everything about the grey knights. Immune to curruption or not. Whole guard regiments have been executed for less.

Sorry rant over, I just strongly dislike even the idea of Crowe and his daemon weapon. The designer should have been shot by the nearest commissar... I know, I read the background. Still Heresy... *mumble* *grumble* *heretics*

You really think you know lot's of fluff don't you?

Try searching radical inquisitors on the Lexicanum.

Grenedel im gonna cry.....
One of the biggest things all over "Grey Knight" inquisition is using the Daemon against itself. Fighting fire with fire as it were. Many if not most inquisitors have either daemonic weapons, powers, or familiars (lets not even begin to discuss the daemonhost......)

Oh I know, just being psykers is embracing chaos. I just think carrying a chaos blade is a step too far. They'd execute a civilian for being on the same planet as a chaotic artifact (just to be safe), and there's Crowe walking around carry the damn thing.

I'd expect it from an Inquisitor, radical devils that they are.

grendel083 wrote:Oh I know, just being psykers is embracing chaos. I just think carrying a chaos blade is a step too far. They'd execute a civilian for being on the same planet as a chaotic artifact (just to be safe), and there's Crowe walking around carry the damn thing.

I'd expect it from an Inquisitor, radical devils that they are.

So...I'll have to give you the link myself.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Radical#.T3jbrZhnIy5

Yes, the GKs would shoot someone for carrying a Daemon Weapon around and then give it to a Purifier to carry around.

Its not Hypocracy, its simple pragmaticism. Only GKs, and purfiers specifically, have the Spiritual Purity to be immune to the corruption of the Daemon artifact. The Blade of Antwer is sentient and needs to be under constant guard and its too dangerous to just leave in a case back on Titan, so Crowe carries it around and constantly battles with the Daemon inside it. Crowe is currently the best guard for the blade and so where he goes it goes.

Actually he DOEWS use it. Physically. He just doesn't use the mega awesome God killing poroperties to end everything. He still attacks with it, but for any the sharp the Daemonmetal blade is, he might as well be using a lead pipe. If he were an ork it might work. It's a seriously choppy looking choppa.

I merely posted what I read in the GREY KNIGHT CODEX... why the hate? don't be hate'n brah!

Was that directed at me? If so, I would like to say I wasn't hating just corrrecting a statement.

Yes, he does use the blade physically, but his 4+ rending comes from a special rule and not because he's using the blade. He would rend on 4+ with anything, even a wet noodle.

Ah yes. I was talking fluffwise sorry. The statement sounded like a fluff reference.

You really think you know lot's of fluff don't you?

Try searching radical inquisitors on the Lexicanum.

No Deadshot it wasn't directed at you, was directed at jgehunter.

grendel083 wrote:

decoste007xt wrote:If you read crowes fluff it says he doesn't use the sword but protects it from the clutches of evil. So indeed his fists rend the sword is a supremely daemonic weapon that if used could consume a mans being.

A Grey Knight with a daemon weapon? HERESY!

No fluff in the universe can justify this Not true *BLAM*, it flies in the face of everything about the grey knights. Immune to curruption or not. Whole guard regiments have been executed for less.

Sorry rant over, I just strongly dislike even the idea of Crowe and his daemon weapon. The designer should have been shot by the nearest commissar... I know, I read the background. Still Heresy... *mumble* *grumble* *heretics*

And what I wrote was directed at this, srry if you took my tone badly but I was just making it clear that having a Demon Weapon is not precisely fluff-breaking

Yeah, its hard to break fluff that didn't really exist prior to this Codex.

The DH codex was pretty ambigious about fluff. Only character mentioned was Brother Captain Stern and there was almost nothing about how the chapter operated or was put together.

Mat Ward has actually created the first solid GK fluff that wasn't completely mysterious sounding. People just raged because it wasn't how they would have imagined it to actually be. I admit, it wasn't how I imagined it either but I actually like most of it. They fit their tag line pretty well. "A line of shining silver seperating the light from the darkness" They are the Grey between Black and White.