Eldar Discussion - 2k List for Summer GT's

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**Smitty0305**

If you dont play Eldar, Please tell me what army you play in tournaments, and which list ive posted can counter it best and why. If you dont play eldar, whch one of the below lists would you be least inclined to fight?

Ive played eldar for years, I have a 10k eldar army and have and can field anything.

Ive won many local tournaments, and Ive placed top 5 in a few GT's and larger tournaments.

Eldar can still win tournaments, although its hard.

I want this to be a discussion thread about eldar. Hopefully some people can help me think of a few ideas that I havent thought of. Below, I will post my lists of Eldar that I have used.

Please post as much information as you can about Eldar to make this discussion helpful, and to help me narrow down a list for summer GTs

SkimDar List

Spoiler:

WalkDar List

Spoiler:

AutarchDar List

Spoiler:

Spamdar

Spoiler:

KarandrasSeercouncilDar

Spoiler:

Karandras sub lists

Spoiler:

SeercouncilEldradDar

Spoiler:

Double Council 1

Spoiler:

Double Seer Council 2

Spoiler:

LightningStrike Dar

Spoiler:

Conclusion

are there any aspects of eldar Im missing? Phoenix lords besides fuegan and karandras are bad. Wraithguard are slow and over costed. Harlequins I dont think are any better. Howling banshees are cool, I would love to use them in some kind of list.

Pathfinders arnt mobile enough and are over costed.

swooping hawks are bad. Besides the fact they can hit vehicles with grenades on a 4+, there a waste of an FOC. str3 weapons are aweful.
warp spiders I dont see how they are good. You shoow a space marine squad with 20 str6 shots and kill a few? then they die the next turn. I just dont see how to use them especially with them being so costly.

Dark Reapers- I think theres alot of potential and I need to figure out how to use them. Their exarch is literally amazing

Is there anything Im missing? Any other lists you guys have that you think can perform betteR?

**Powerguy**

You have managed to cover pretty much all the viable units and builds, but some still can be tweaked a bit. The Skimdar list has a Autarch + Farseer, which imo is you best HQ combination at 2000pts, but then has Guardian Defenders and Jetbikes, which aren't optimal at all. The Walker list is probably the most solid imo, it could do pretty well, but will fall over against some armies and its not an army I would ever run due to its lack of mobility. The dual Autarch list I don't rate as competitive at 2000pts, you need the support abilities of a Seer more and more people have the tools to absorb your arriving reserves. The Spamdar is very close to fully tuned, it just needs a Seer with Warding to round it out. The lists with the Councils are all rock lists, which will fall over badly against people who know how to deal with the Councils, you can't reliably expect to win more than half your games with them.

The only unit you have missed is the Nightspinner, which is a viable alternative to the a single Prism (but you wouldn't run 2 Spinners over 2 Prisms). You also missed the Hornet, which isn't legal in most tournaments since its Forgeworld, but you should always take at least 3 of them in any army if you are allowed to take them. 95pts for 2 BS4 Missiles with AV11 and high mobility is amazing, and even 60 odd points with S6 shooting is still pretty good. If you are really lucky you could run the Corsairs list, which is a pretty scary shooting list (2 Meltaguns and 2 Relentless EML per squad of 10 with BS4 is awesome).

Essentially I would say the ideal build is somewhere in between the Spamdar list and the Skimdar list, with the Walkers list also viable if you don't mind the loss in mobility. Ignoring the Council rock lists, none of these lists have double Falcons, which is a viable option. Personally my 2k list would be something like; Seer + Autarch, 3 x 5 Dragons in Serpents, 3 x 5 Avenger units (1 in Serpent, 2 in Falcons), a Flamer Guardian Squad, 2 Falcons and a Night Spinner. Any left over points go into Vypers or Hornets, and possibly an upgrade to Eldrad if I can fit 3 Vypers in first. Depending on how confident you are with scoring units you can possible even go with on 2 units of Avengers + the Guardians, but its not viable for me since local tournaments have shifted slightly to make objectives more important.

**labmouse42**

A lot of those builds look very good, and there is not much tweaking that you can do on them.
The only thing I would say is that given the current meta shift to GK/Necrons, there are two things that come to mind.

Scatter lasers might give you a better option. Anytime you are within 24" of psycannons, they can shoot a Heavy 4 shot at you. If you are further away and they are forced to move, at best they get a Assault 2 shot at you. In a best case, they can't shoot at you at all. The extra shot and the extra 12" on scatter lasers make the upgrade cost worth it in the current meta IMHO.

Also given the increasing number of necrons I see at GTs, nightspinners are more of a viable option. You can drop the indirect barrage in night fight, and still have a 55% of hitting the target with twin-linked spinners. Each hit insta-kills a scarab swarm and unless they are in area terrain they don't get cover from the indirect blast. Given the additional benefits of slowdown and dangerous terrain, its a great way to help mitigate the scarab/wrath lists out there.

**Smitty0305**

powerguy and labmouse ty for your input!

**felixander**

Walkdar list looks awesome, I've always been a big fan of WW. Shouldn't you give two DA WS Star Engines so they can move away during movement, let walkers fire, and then move back to shield 'em? Also I always love the double council lists, except the notable lack of Destructors :(

**Smitty0305**

felixander wrote:Walkdar list looks awesome, I've always been a big fan of WW. Shouldn't you give two DA WS Star Engines so they can move away during movement, let walkers fire, and then move back to shield 'em? Also I always love the double council lists, except the notable lack of Destructors :(

thats how star engines worked in 4th edition eldar, not 5th. Now they just let you move 12" more.

Destructor really isnt worth it, because when you make it into assult your going to kill everything anyways, and mass shuriken fire isnt bad.

**BlueDagger**

*forces self to read the wall o lists* For better formatting you could enclose those lists with spoiler tags and it'll cut down on the post size.

SkimDar:
- Bad: Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones, S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, Autarch power weapon has no point, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability
- Good: Variety of targets and vehicles saturation

WalkDar:
- Bad: S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, only 3 troops and fragile ones at that, eggs in one basket syndrome with the walkers (you're putting a lot of stock in an AV10 firebase)
- Good: Lots of flexibility with the EML firebase and you have plenty (if not overkill) amount of farseer powers to work with

AutarchDar:
- Bad: Autarches are eating up a PILE of points and are escorted by liabilities, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, shining spears are terrible... like way terrible, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones,
- Good: um... well... +2 reserves for round two? 5 troops, target saturation

SpamDar:
- Bad: No farseer, Short range and self-limited speed, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones
- Good: Lots of str 6, target saturation,

KarandrasSeercouncilDar:
- Bad: Phoenix lords are terrible for their point cost, Scorps are hard to get the assault off, seer needs witnessing, eggs in one basket with seercouncil which has very hard counters nowadays, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda
- Good: Very offensive list with a lot of pressure, if the opponent doesn't tie up the seer council or have a counter for them they are in for some hurt.

Karandras sub lists:
Yeahh....

Double Council:
- Bad: Auto loss vs GK Draigowing or GK Stromravens, Falcon bad weapon loadout and needs stones, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda, Seers need witnessing, one needs warding
- Good: if there is no counter to the seer council you will smash face

Double Council 2:
- Bad: Auto loss vs GK Draigowing or GK Stromravens, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda, Seers need witnessing, shining spears are terrible, too many jetbikes
- Good: if there is no counter to the seer council you will smash face, lots of swarm fire

Alot of that may have come off negative, but I wanted to give each list it's own pro/con, but they all had the same mistake which led to repetitiveness. The one thing that shocked me was that in not a single list is a Nightspinner used which is one of the top Eldar choices and is an auto include in any competitive list IMO. The current cookiecutter list IMO should be...

Eldrad
3x 5 Fire Dragons + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x 5 Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
2x Fire Prism w/ Holofield, SS
1x Night Spinner w/ Holofield, SS
71pts for upgrades

or

Eldrad (In Falcon)
3x 5 Fire Dragons + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x 5 Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
5 Dire Avengers (in Falcon)
2x Night Spinner w/ Holofield, 1 w/ SS (no SS if you take BL on Falcon
Falcon w/ EML (or BL), Holofield, SS

**Smitty0305**

BlueDagger wrote:*forces self to read the wall o lists* For better formatting you could enclose those lists with spoiler tags and it'll cut down on the post size.

SkimDar:
- Bad: Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones, S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, Autarch power weapon has no point, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability
- Good: Variety of targets and vehicles saturation

WalkDar:
- Bad: S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, only 3 troops and fragile ones at that, eggs in one basket syndrome with the walkers (you're putting a lot of stock in an AV10 firebase)
- Good: Lots of flexibility with the EML firebase and you have plenty (if not overkill) amount of farseer powers to work with

AutarchDar:
- Bad: Autarches are eating up a PILE of points and are escorted by liabilities, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S Cannons on serpents limits range/tactics, shining spears are terrible... like way terrible, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones,
- Good: um... well... +2 reserves for round two? 5 troops, target saturation

SpamDar:
- Bad: No farseer, Short range and self-limited speed, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones
- Good: Lots of str 6, target saturation,

KarandrasSeercouncilDar:
- Bad: Phoenix lords are terrible for their point cost, Scorps are hard to get the assault off, seer needs witnessing, eggs in one basket with seercouncil which has very hard counters nowadays, Prisms need Holos, Falcon needs stones, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda
- Good: Very offensive list with a lot of pressure, if the opponent doesn't tie up the seer council or have a counter for them they are in for some hurt.

Karandras sub lists:
Yeahh....

Double Council:
- Bad: Auto loss vs GK Draigowing or GK Stromravens, Falcon bad weapon loadout and needs stones, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda, Seers need witnessing, one needs warding
- Good: if there is no counter to the seer council you will smash face

Double Council 2:
- Bad: Auto loss vs GK Draigowing or GK Stromravens, Bikes without emboldenlock are a liability, S. Cannons yadda yadda, Seers need witnessing, shining spears are terrible, too many jetbikes
- Good: if there is no counter to the seer council you will smash face, lots of swarm fire

Alot of that may have come off negative, but I wanted to give each list it's own pro/con, but they all had the same mistake which led to repetitiveness. The one thing that shocked me was that in not a single list is a Nightspinner used which is one of the top Eldar choices and is an auto include in any competitive list IMO. The current cookiecutter list IMO should be...

Eldrad
3x 5 Fire Dragons + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x 5 Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
2x Fire Prism w/ Holofield, SS
1x Night Spinner w/ Holofield, SS
71pts for upgrades

or

Eldrad (In Falcon)
3x 5 Fire Dragons + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x 5 Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent w/ TL Scatters
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
5 Dire Avengers (in Falcon)
2x Night Spinner w/ Holofield, 1 w/ SS (no SS if you take BL on Falcon
Falcon w/ EML (or BL), Holofield, SS

all concerns you posted are valid. Ill work all of it into the list for this summer.

As an Eldar player which list/Build do you think will go the farthest in a tournament.

**BlueDagger**

As always, it is 100% dependent on the mission that will be played. Hell my Swooping Hawk list trumps all these lists if the mission are a certain way lol.

In a tournament using only the missions from book SkimDar if the edits are made.

**Smitty0305**

BlueDagger wrote:As always, it is 100% dependent on the mission that will be played. Hell my Swooping Hawk list trumps all these lists if the mission are a certain way lol.

In a tournament using only the missions from book SkimDar if the edits are made.

k

Did you think any of my Karandras lists were interesting? If you play the list youll find it hilarious.

**BlueDagger**

I can't justify the point cost vs usability of a Karandras/ Scorp unit. They suffer the same downsides as all other melee Eldar and costs an astounding 322pt without the Serpent's cost. That is the same cost as 2 kitted out Prism/Night Spinners or a 4 Man GJB and DA w/ Serpent.

At the end of the day, it's fun, but not competitive vs players that know what they are doing.

**Smitty0305**

BlueDagger wrote:I can't justify the point cost vs usability of a Karandras/ Scorp unit. They suffer the same downsides as all other melee Eldar and costs an astounding 322pt without the Serpent's cost. That is the same cost as 2 kitted out Prism/Night Spinners or a 4 Man GJB and DA w/ Serpent.

At the end of the day, it's fun, but not competitive vs players that know what they are doing.

I really wana show up with some creative new list tho, mechdar gets so boring sometimes.

Do you have any lists of eldar players doing well in GT's. I thought NOVA last year was won by some guy with double seer?

**BlueDagger**

I've been running triple Spinners lately which I find great fun, but honesty our creativity in lists has been neutered by recent codexes. With such hard counters out there to our units you risk a bad matchup and getting handed an autoloss.

Warlock and Farseer -> GK
Wraithguard and Wraithlords -> DE

Hell even Mechdar is having to shift tactics to deal with Crons. If you try to rush forward with Dragons you'll run headlong into Scarabs/Wraith. If you try to mech up hard with no real swarmfire wraiths will eat you. If you S6 spam you run the risk of meeting AV13 spam.

**Smitty0305**

BlueDagger wrote:I've been running triple Spinners lately which I find great fun, but honesty our creativity in lists has been neutered by recent codexes. With such hard counters out there to our units you risk a bad matchup and getting handed an autoloss.

Warlock and Farseer -> GK
Wraithguard and Wraithlords -> DE

Hell even Mechdar is having to shift tactics to deal with Crons. If you try to rush forward with Dragons you'll run headlong into Scarabs/Wraith. If you try to mech up hard with no real swarmfire wraiths will eat you. If you S6 spam you run the risk of meeting AV13 spam.

I havent played the new necrons yet >.<

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlueDagger wrote:I've been running triple Spinners lately which I find great fun, but honesty our creativity in lists has been neutered by recent codexes. With such hard counters out there to our units you risk a bad matchup and getting handed an autoloss.

Warlock and Farseer -> GK
Wraithguard and Wraithlords -> DE

Hell even Mechdar is having to shift tactics to deal with Crons. If you try to rush forward with Dragons you'll run headlong into Scarabs/Wraith. If you try to mech up hard with no real swarmfire wraiths will eat you. If you S6 spam you run the risk of meeting AV13 spam.

Lists like the one below make me question why I play eldar.....

HQ

Castellan Crowe

Elite

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammo & searchlight
Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammo & searchlight

Troops

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

Heavy Support

Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt & searchlight
Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt & searchlight

**Powerguy**

Eldar can handle that better than Dark Eldar though (I faced something worse than that over the weekend with DE and predictably got smoked), in fact the Walker list/anything with a decent amount of S8 shooting has a chance assuming you go first. You Fortune two Dragon Serpents and boost them down the flanks and hope they survive to get to the Dreads, then focus everything else into the Dreads from outside of 24" to force the Psycannons to keep moving. If that list had 6 Dreads and had a Librarian then you have issues, but then that list struggles against infantry hordes (BA Jumpers, Nids) so it balances out.

Just locally, a Mechdar player has got two top 3s (with Necrons and Dark Eldar the other top armies every time) at two of the last three tournaments (and the other one he got top 3 with Grey Knights) with a list that's very close to your Spamdar army. Only 1850pts, so one less unit of Avengers and then trims a couple of Vypers to fit in a Farseer. I ran my Eldar (roughly listed above, again -1 Troop at 1850) at one of those tournaments and got 8th. I would still rate them as competitive, but its an uphill battle against GK, Necrons, BA, Guard and a bunch of other armies.

**BlueDagger**

Oh don't get me wrong, I still place perfectly fine/win tournaments all the time. Our options are just very slim and funny enough GK hasn't been issue for me at all. The hardest counter to Eldar at the moment is still Spacewolves.

Thunderwolf cav pack + 2 IC Thundercav
3 Packs of long fangs

This will give fits all day long to the standard Eldar lists.

**Smitty0305**

BlueDagger wrote:Oh don't get me wrong, I still place perfectly fine/win tournaments all the time. Our options are just very slim and funny enough GK hasn't been issue for me at all. The hardest counter to Eldar at the moment is still Spacewolves.

Thunderwolf cav pack + 2 IC Thundercav
3 Packs of long fangs

This will give fits all day long to the standard Eldar lists.

yep

**labmouse42**

BlueDagger wrote:I've been running triple Spinners lately which I find great fun, but honesty our creativity in lists has been neutered by recent codexes. With such hard counters out there to our units you risk a bad matchup and getting handed an autoloss.

Warlock and Farseer -> GK
Wraithguard and Wraithlords -> DE

Hell even Mechdar is having to shift tactics to deal with Crons. If you try to rush forward with Dragons you'll run headlong into Scarabs/Wraith. If you try to mech up hard with no real swarmfire wraiths will eat you. If you S6 spam you run the risk of meeting AV13 spam.

BlueDagger has hit a point here right on the head.

When GK were everywhere, the Eldar codex got a minor boost as its a decent matchup vs a lot of GK. You can use suicide dragons on dreads and AV 12 spam can be a hassle for GK to deal with. Runes also greatly lower the effect of fortitude and the ability for normal squads to use force weapons.

This makes Mech'dar a good army if your facing all GK players. The problem is were seeing a rise of the Necrons in the current Meta. An example of this is the indy open a few weeks ago, where a Necron player won best general. The current necron list are a bunch of lances in small warrior squads and wraith spam. This is a hard list for Eldar to fight, and its not that great of a matchup. The wraiths can tear apart vehicles and they ignore the effects of spinners. The night fight is also a hindrance as Eldar have no searchlights.

The eldar did well vs. the scarab farms, as the spinners shut those down very well, but as we are seeing more and more of wraith spam its becoming less effective. While internet pundits will say 'just shoot your STR 6 shots at the wraiths', its not that easy. The wraiths will be able to use wound allocation tricks to lower the effect of the STR 6 spam, and night fighting makes it so you need to be close enough to get assulted by the wraiths (ie, dead serpents) in order to get your shots.

As I face more necrons and tweak my Mech'dar list Ill post the best results. Honestly I'm considering going foot'dar to see how it fares -- the problem is foot'dar have a bad matchup against IG, which is another common army.

**Clauss**

Hey smitty,
Just read through all of your lists and the comments made regarding eldars limited list choices. I personally am a daemon player, but i played eldar in 4th so i find this discussion interesting. My tactical advice regarding eldar lists would pale in comparison to bluedagger. But I did play a eldar player in the 3rd round of the NOVA Invitational who played a list that was anything but cookiecutter. He had a hybrid list that had:

Yriel
farseer(runes of both, doom, fortune)
both attached to harlequins

pack of harlequins for yriel
fire dragons

5 rangers
2 dire avenger squads (about 6-8 man) in serpents
3 manGJB squad

3 warwalkers with scatter lasers
fire prism
falcon

note this is from memory, so i do not remember what guns the serpents had. But this list succeeded on many competitive levels. i know it does not fit the avergage footdar/mechdar. So you guys may laugh at it, but he played the list masterfully. He actually won the Bugeater GT with it, which got him into the NOVA invitational, the game came down to final die roll and final wound on a daemon prince from a fire prism through a window. Luckily i rolled a 4 for my cover save and won, but it came down to tertiary. if you are curious how he ran it, he attached yriel/farseer to the harlequins, obviously kept walkers in back, dragons went into the falcon. If you are interested in how the game went, you can check my created threads and it is my only battle report posted. The players name was Marc Tomlinson I believe.

I also love the fact you are trying to create a list that is much more creative and not so cookie cutter. good luck and i hope my comment was not completely irrelevant.

**Smitty0305**

labmouse42 wrote:
BlueDagger wrote:I've been running triple Spinners lately which I find great fun, but honesty our creativity in lists has been neutered by recent codexes. With such hard counters out there to our units you risk a bad matchup and getting handed an autoloss.

Warlock and Farseer -> GK
Wraithguard and Wraithlords -> DE

Hell even Mechdar is having to shift tactics to deal with Crons. If you try to rush forward with Dragons you'll run headlong into Scarabs/Wraith. If you try to mech up hard with no real swarmfire wraiths will eat you. If you S6 spam you run the risk of meeting AV13 spam.
BlueDagger has hit a point here right on the head.

When GK were everywhere, the Eldar codex got a minor boost as its a decent matchup vs a lot of GK. You can use suicide dragons on dreads and AV 12 spam can be a hassle for GK to deal with. Runes also greatly lower the effect of fortitude and the ability for normal squads to use force weapons.

This makes Mech'dar a good army if your facing all GK players. The problem is were seeing a rise of the Necrons in the current Meta. An example of this is the indy open a few weeks ago, where a Necron player won best general. The current necron list are a bunch of lances in small warrior squads and wraith spam. This is a hard list for Eldar to fight, and its not that great of a matchup. The wraiths can tear apart vehicles and they ignore the effects of spinners. The night fight is also a hindrance as Eldar have no searchlights.

The eldar did well vs. the scarab farms, as the spinners shut those down very well, but as we are seeing more and more of wraith spam its becoming less effective. While internet pundits will say 'just shoot your STR 6 shots at the wraiths', its not that easy. The wraiths will be able to use wound allocation tricks to lower the effect of the STR 6 spam, and night fighting makes it so you need to be close enough to get assulted by the wraiths (ie, dead serpents) in order to get your shots.

As I face more necrons and tweak my Mech'dar list Ill post the best results. Honestly I'm considering going foot'dar to see how it fares -- the problem is foot'dar have a bad matchup against IG, which is another common army.

thanks for posting.

I havent played the new necrons alot. What does a wraith spam list look like and which one of the lists I posted do you think counters it the best?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Clauss wrote:Hey smitty,
Just read through all of your lists and the comments made regarding eldars limited list choices. I personally am a daemon player, but i played eldar in 4th so i find this discussion interesting. My tactical advice regarding eldar lists would pale in comparison to bluedagger. But I did play a eldar player in the 3rd round of the NOVA Invitational who played a list that was anything but cookiecutter. He had a hybrid list that had:

Yriel
farseer(runes of both, doom, fortune)
both attached to harlequins

pack of harlequins for yriel
fire dragons

5 rangers
2 dire avenger squads (about 6-8 man) in serpents
3 manGJB squad

3 warwalkers with scatter lasers
fire prism
falcon

note this is from memory, so i do not remember what guns the serpents had. But this list succeeded on many competitive levels. i know it does not fit the avergage footdar/mechdar. So you guys may laugh at it, but he played the list masterfully. He actually won the Bugeater GT with it, which got him into the NOVA invitational, the game came down to final die roll and final wound on a daemon prince from a fire prism through a window. Luckily i rolled a 4 for my cover save and won, but it came down to tertiary. if you are curious how he ran it, he attached yriel/farseer to the harlequins, obviously kept walkers in back, dragons went into the falcon. If you are interested in how the game went, you can check my created threads and it is my only battle report posted. The players name was Marc Tomlinson I believe.

I also love the fact you are trying to create a list that is much more creative and not so cookie cutter. good luck and i hope my comment was not completely irrelevant.

Yea thats an interesting idea, Ill read ur batrep.

**BlueDagger**

As I have seen it usually consists of something to the nature of....

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

3x 5 Warriors w/ Cano Lance + Ghost Ark

3x 5 Wraith w/ 2 Whipcoils

2x Annihilation Barge
1x Doomsday Barge

Every last thing in this list will hurt the hell out of Eldar in every way imaginable. It's downside though is range, so you have to outrun it and pray your Firedragons/EML/BL do their job before you get cornered. Wraiths I a bloody nightmare for us because you can not slow them down at all. They start on the 12" line and move up 13-18" per turn until they assault something and rip it to shreds. You can swarmfire it with a unit, but that unit will get eaten by the stuff right by it. S6 en masse will fail pretty had because scatterlaser simply don't have enough shots and Dual C. Cannon means that tank is dead the next turn.

The only reason I say TWC/Fangspam SW is harder to face is because you can't outrun them. You are getting shot or assaulted nearly every damn turn.

**seapheonix**

I don't know. I just played a tourney and the space wolves and grey knights were the only thing I did well against. I had a very different list though. Ran a nice big squad of warp spiders, a squad of swooping hawks, and practiced focus fire early and often. I'll have a batrep up for the grey knights and space wolves up in the next couple of days. Actually I think I used all the squads that you said you don't like.

To be fair I got totally destroyed by orks, and the fact I didn't win against the two grey knights. (Totally my own fault in tactical judgement.) Means I placed in the middle of the tourney. But one space wolf player gave up fourth turn, and the other was close to tabled in five. The second grey knight army only had two paladins left on the table.

**Smitty0305**

seapheonix wrote:I don't know. I just played a tourney and the space wolves and grey knights were the only thing I did well against. I had a very different list though. Ran a nice big squad of warp spiders, a squad of swooping hawks, and practiced focus fire early and often. I'll have a batrep up for the grey knights and space wolves up in the next couple of days. Actually I think I used all the squads that you said you don't like.

To be fair I got totally destroyed by orks, and the fact I didn't win against the two grey knights. (Totally my own fault in tactical judgement.) Means I placed in the middle of the tourney. But one space wolf player gave up fourth turn, and the other was close to tabled in five. The second grey knight army only had two paladins left on the table.

make sure you link me the batrep.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlueDagger wrote:As I have seen it usually consists of something to the nature of....

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

3x 5 Warriors w/ Cano Lance + Ghost Ark

3x 5 Wraith w/ 2 Whipcoils

2x Annihilation Barge
1x Doomsday Barge

Every last thing in this list will hurt the hell out of Eldar in every way imaginable. It's downside though is range, so you have to outrun it and pray your Firedragons/EML/BL do their job before you get cornered. Wraiths I a bloody nightmare for us because you can not slow them down at all. They start on the 12" line and move up 13-18" per turn until they assault something and rip it to shreds. You can swarmfire it with a unit, but that unit will get eaten by the stuff right by it. S6 en masse will fail pretty had because scatterlaser simply don't have enough shots and Dual C. Cannon means that tank is dead the next turn.

The only reason I say TWC/Fangspam SW is harder to face is because you can't outrun them. You are getting shot or assaulted nearly every damn turn.

can you explain the necron list a little more in depth? What do whipcoils do/cano lances? and what weapons do their tanks have.

**labmouse42**

BlueDagger wrote:As I have seen it usually consists of something to the nature of....

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

3x 5 Warriors w/ Cano Lance + Ghost Ark

3x 5 Wraith w/ 2 Whipcoils

2x Annihilation Barge
1x Doomsday Barge

Every last thing in this list will hurt the hell out of Eldar in every way imaginable. It's downside though is range, so you have to outrun it and pray your Firedragons/EML/BL do their job before you get cornered. Wraiths I a bloody nightmare for us because you can not slow them down at all. They start on the 12" line and move up 13-18" per turn until they assault something and rip it to shreds. You can swarmfire it with a unit, but that unit will get eaten by the stuff right by it. S6 en masse will fail pretty had because scatterlaser simply don't have enough shots and Dual C. Cannon means that tank is dead the next turn.

The only reason I say TWC/Fangspam SW is harder to face is because you can't outrun them. You are getting shot or assaulted nearly every damn turn.

+1 to this. There are some small variations on the list, but the focus is still the same.

Solar pulses + 2 cyrpto-lances per warrior squad. Some might foregoe the arks to get more lances. You might see 3 Annihilation barges.
Either way, its just small variations off the same basic core -- wraith and lances to make your life hard. The barges will also require your attention, or the lords will scythe your vehicles open, and the Annihilation barges put out enough STR 7 fire to shoot down serpents.

Mech'dar right now are having it tough because they have a few bad matchups that are pretty common. You match up well vs GK and IG, which are also common but badly vs Necrons and SW. This means if you go to a large event, like the bay area open, or the Nova open, your running the risk of bad matchups. Sure, you might get lucky and face 5 IG players in a row -- its happened to me before! But you might also face 5 necron players in a row.

As you win to the higher tables, the harder time you will have, as your less likely to see an army like LR spam -- which Mech'dar destroy. On those tables your going to see armies like IG, Necrons, GK, and Wolves. Given that half those are bad matchups.....

Does it mean that Mech'dar suck? No, of course not. As blueDagger mentioned, he has done very well with his list and I have done the same. You can still usually do pretty well in tourneys, and there is still the luck of the dice. If your not looking for an army that has a reasonable chance of winning a 64 player tournament, then Mech'dar is just fine. If your planning on competing on a national level, then you might find some problems. It all depends on your scale, right?
Personally, I have little kids that prevent me from traveling around the country doing lots of big tourneys, so I do local events and 1 days. I plan on doing the Nova in 2012, as its not far from my home. As such, a Mech'dar army does just fine for me. It might do the same for you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smitty0305 wrote:can you explain the necron list a little more in depth? What do whipcoils do/cano lances? and what weapons do their tanks have.

http://11thcompany.blogspot.com/

If your serious about doing tourneys, this is an excellent source point to listen to. These guys do lots of big tourneys, and describe what people are bringing to tourneys. They talk about the current meta and how to edge your game to be better at it.

In the last episode, they talked about the Necron list bluedagger mentioned in great detail.

IMHO, a good 40k player is always striving to increase their game. They also need to be on top of what is happening in the current meta. Listening to podcasts is an excellent (and cheap) method of doing this.

**Smitty0305**

labmouse42 wrote:
BlueDagger wrote:As I have seen it usually consists of something to the nature of....

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

Lord w/ Scythe
Command Barge

3x 5 Warriors w/ Cano Lance + Ghost Ark

3x 5 Wraith w/ 2 Whipcoils

2x Annihilation Barge
1x Doomsday Barge

Every last thing in this list will hurt the hell out of Eldar in every way imaginable. It's downside though is range, so you have to outrun it and pray your Firedragons/EML/BL do their job before you get cornered. Wraiths I a bloody nightmare for us because you can not slow them down at all. They start on the 12" line and move up 13-18" per turn until they assault something and rip it to shreds. You can swarmfire it with a unit, but that unit will get eaten by the stuff right by it. S6 en masse will fail pretty had because scatterlaser simply don't have enough shots and Dual C. Cannon means that tank is dead the next turn.

The only reason I say TWC/Fangspam SW is harder to face is because you can't outrun them. You are getting shot or assaulted nearly every damn turn.
+1 to this. There are some small variations on the list, but the focus is still the same.

Solar pulses + 2 cyrpto-lances per warrior squad. Some might foregoe the arks to get more lances. You might see 3 Annihilation barges.
Either way, its just small variations off the same basic core -- wraith and lances to make your life hard. The barges will also require your attention, or the lords will scythe your vehicles open, and the Annihilation barges put out enough STR 7 fire to shoot down serpents.

Mech'dar right now are having it tough because they have a few bad matchups that are pretty common. You match up well vs GK and IG, which are also common but badly vs Necrons and SW. This means if you go to a large event, like the bay area open, or the Nova open, your running the risk of bad matchups. Sure, you might get lucky and face 5 IG players in a row -- its happened to me before! But you might also face 5 necron players in a row.

As you win to the higher tables, the harder time you will have, as your less likely to see an army like LR spam -- which Mech'dar destroy. On those tables your going to see armies like IG, Necrons, GK, and Wolves. Given that half those are bad matchups.....

Does it mean that Mech'dar suck? No, of course not. As blueDagger mentioned, he has done very well with his list and I have done the same. You can still usually do pretty well in tourneys, and there is still the luck of the dice. If your not looking for an army that has a reasonable chance of winning a 64 player tournament, then Mech'dar is just fine. If your planning on competing on a national level, then you might find some problems. It all depends on your scale, right?
Personally, I have little kids that prevent me from traveling around the country doing lots of big tourneys, so I do local events and 1 days. I plan on doing the Nova in 2012, as its not far from my home. As such, a Mech'dar army does just fine for me. It might do the same for you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smitty0305 wrote:can you explain the necron list a little more in depth? What do whipcoils do/cano lances? and what weapons do their tanks have.
http://11thcompany.blogspot.com/

If your serious about doing tourneys, this is an excellent source point to listen to. These guys do lots of big tourneys, and describe what people are bringing to tourneys. They talk about the current meta and how to edge your game to be better at it.

In the last episode, they talked about the Necron list bluedagger mentioned in great detail.

IMHO, a good 40k player is always striving to increase their game. They also need to be on top of what is happening in the current meta. Listening to podcasts is an excellent (and cheap) method of doing this.

Can you please post your eldar list?

2nd, can you please post how Eldar have good match ups vs GK. I have the problem of psycannons ripping up my serpents, I also have a hard time dealing with storm ravens.

Im also not a new player, ive played eldar for a while. I win my fare share of 1 day tournaments, I got 6th general at Alamo GT, and I won best general at Railhead. Im not looking to compete on a national level, but I do want to compete in the top 10% of every tournament I go to.

and yea ill go check out that podcast.

**racta**

This thread has been great for a budding tournament player playing eldar.

As for my choice, I would go with a karandras list. Hear me out. Mechdar has been done before. And done before. And done before. It's old news honestly. I feel like you need something with a little "surprise!" to make an impact.

Think about it; we know there is some rough matchups for the normal eldar lists. So in order to win, you have to make the opponent make mistakes. You won't do that with a cookie cutter list which they have faced a bunch of times. Having a new element in the list will hopefully get people flustered and allow you to take games. Plus it will be more fun to play, and if you do well, you will earn more recognition.

**Smitty0305**

racta wrote:This thread has been great for a budding tournament player playing eldar.

As for my choice, I would go with a karandras list. Hear me out. Mechdar has been done before. And done before. And done before. It's old news honestly. I feel like you need something with a little "surprise!" to make an impact.

Think about it; we know there is some rough matchups for the normal eldar lists. So in order to win, you have to make the opponent make mistakes. You won't do that with a cookie cutter list which they have faced a bunch of times. Having a new element in the list will hopefully get people flustered and allow you to take games. Plus it will be more fun to play, and if you do well, you will earn more recognition.

Yea , its a fun list and has some great hitting power. I played it in a tournament last year and won , http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391746.page . I think with the Karandras list Im 7-1. I tabled a Space Wolf player last week, but I also lost to a really good CSM player whos a good friend of mine. The list is great, and it doesnt really have a "weakness" besides psychic hoods, mass shooting, and very good spam armies that dont make mistakes.

What list are you thinking about using?

**racta**

I ran straight cookie cutter mech in some local stuff, but it was never fully painted and I never felt invested in it enough to do it justice and take it to some bigger tournys.

Recently I've grown attached to the playstyle of footdar, and am in the process of converting and painting up a full 2k force for this summer. Even so, I am very intrigued by the karandras seer council army. Might try to whip up that scorpion unit to give it a shot sometime.

By the way, awesome reports and amazing looking seer council dude.

**Smitty0305**

racta wrote:I ran straight cookie cutter mech in some local stuff, but it was never fully painted and I never felt invested in it enough to do it justice and take it to some bigger tournys.

Recently I've grown attached to the playstyle of footdar, and am in the process of converting and painting up a full 2k force for this summer. Even so, I am very intrigued by the karandras seer council army. Might try to whip up that scorpion unit to give it a shot sometime.

By the way, awesome reports and amazing looking seer council dude.

thanks, and tell me how using Karandras goes.

Ive thought about running footdar, but with the lack of mobility its just really hard for me to see how it does well.

**labmouse42**

This is my current 1850 list.
* Yuriel
* Farseer w/Fortune + Runes of Warding
* 3 Warlocks w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Fire Dragons w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Fire Dragons w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Fire Dragons w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Avengers w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Avengers w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* 5 Avengers w/ Serpent (TL SL and underslung)
* NightSpinner
* NightSpinner

I use Yuriel as either a suicide guy, or I use him with the fortune farseer and 3 warlocks. Ive had some good effect with it, wrecking apart multiple vehicles or tearing up multiple BA assault squads. Its not a deathstar, so you can't put it face to face with T-wolves, but its not bad. Yuriel also lets you reserve your army, as they will come in on a 3+ -- which I find is overall a good tactic when you can move quickly and you want to limit the number of turns you are shot at.

When fighting GK, the biggest concern are the dreads. I will suicide the dragons and warlocks to destroy them. Once they are done, Ill target razorbacks and then infantry. So far it works fairly well. Draigowing armies are harder, and Ive not faced one yet who does what Blackmoor used. The best tactic I've seen for that is to just tank shock em off the board. What kind of GK are you facing -- there are multiple builds.

Spinners are really great. Some games they don't do much, but many other games they really prove worthwhile. The trick is to remember that the role of spinners is to disrupt enemy plans.