Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How many points is an ork painboy? I could see it being 30 or 50. Does anybody know?

Maybe check your codex?

Assigning a number 1 through 26 to the letters of the alphabet, the cost is twice the sum of the vowels in his name.

Painboy is:

Cost of the normal ork nob + cost of the painboy upgrade

Thanks grende, The wording was different from other squad leader upgrades and I didn't want to cheat me or my opponent.

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe check your codex?

Unnecessary. There is legitimate reason to believe the painboy costing just 30 points, even one of the army examples in the very same codex gets it wrong.

But as grendel has stated, you buy a nob and then upgrade it to painboy. He also isn't exactly a squad leader, so that's maybe why he is worded differently.

Not to me there isn't, +Xpts seems very clear. Nobs are Xppm, you then have to +Xpts in order to make him a painboy. If it was 'One Nob may be a Painboy......Xpts' then i'd say it was ambiguous, but it seems very clear cut.

One Nob may be a Painboy means that you must already have a Nob there to become one, which means spending Xpts to get him, and then adding +Xpts for him to become a Painboy.

Sorry, but I saw no reason to believe it could be any different.

Avatar 720 wrote:
One Nob may be a Painboy means that you must already have a Nob there to become one, which means spending Xpts to get him, and then adding +Xpts for him to become a Painboy.

Sorry, but I saw no reason to believe it could be any different.

Well when creating the squad, as the painboy is technically of 'nob status' then it could be assumed that instead of adding a standard 20pt nob you could add a 30pt nob painboy straight off the bat. It's an option and (unless stated anywhere else) it's is not mentioned that a pre-existing nob may be a painboy via upgrade.

Look at Kommando's for example. 'One Kommando may be upgraded to be a nob' therefore a pre-existing 10pt model has an extra 10pts added for a 20pt model. Painboy isn't mentioned as an upgrade.

Therefore the models total cost is 30pts, not 50.

One nob may be a painboy

If you dont have a nob, he cant be a painboy. You have to have a nob first, for 20 points, and then a painboy on top is 30 points.

Bloodfever wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:
One Nob may be a Painboy means that you must already have a Nob there to become one, which means spending Xpts to get him, and then adding +Xpts for him to become a Painboy.

Sorry, but I saw no reason to believe it could be any different.

Well when creating the squad, as the painboy is technically of 'nob status' then it could be assumed that instead of adding a standard 20pt nob you could add a 30pt nob painboy straight off the bat. It's an option and (unless stated anywhere else) it's is not mentioned that a pre-existing nob may be a painboy via upgrade.

Look at Kommando's for example. 'One Kommando may be upgraded to be a nob' therefore a pre-existing 10pt model has an extra 10pts added for a 20pt model. Painboy isn't mentioned as an upgrade.

Therefore the models total cost is 30pts, not 50.

The Painboy is not 'technically of Nob status', he is a seperate model with a similar statline. For one Nob to be a Painboy, there must first be a Nob to become one. If you bought a Painboy for Xpts, has a Nob become a Painboy? No, since there wasn't a Nob there to start with.

You cannot upgrade models before you buy them, as they do not exist before you buy them; in order for a Nob to be a Painboy, there must first be a Nob.

It is a nob squad therefore the term 'nob' is used as a reference of a model in the unit.
Painboys are a seperate entity, a replacement, not an upgrade, just look at flash gits, a flash git can be a painboy for 30 points. If they were an upgrade then they would not lose the 4+ save, its swapping the model, not improving upon it. A 25pt flash git is replaced with a 30pt painboy.

Bloodfever wrote:It is a nob squad therefore the term 'nob' is used as a reference of a model in the unit.
Painboys are a seperate entity, a replacement, not an upgrade, just look at flash gits, a flash git can be a painboy for 30 points. If they were an upgrade then they would not lose the 4+ save, its swapping the model, not improving upon it. A 25pt flash git is replaced with a 30pt painboy.

Grab your ork codex, go to pg 83. look at the unit of 5 nobs and figure out the points he spent on that unit.

It is a nob squad therefore the term 'nob' is used as a reference of a model in the unit.
Painboys are a seperate entity, a replacement, not an upgrade, just look at flash gits, a flash git can be a painboy for 30 points. If they were an upgrade then they would not lose the 4+ save, its swapping the model, not improving upon it. A 25pt flash git is replaced with a 30pt painboy.

EDIT Why woulda model be 50pts for one unit but 55pts in another when they are both EXACTLY the same?

The term 'Nob' refers to all models that are 'Nobs'. A Painboy is a not a 'Nob' as shown by his seperate statline. If you attached a Big Mek to the squad, he is for all intents and purposes part of the unit; would he then be a Nob?

Painboys are an upgrade. Boss Snikrot for Kommandos is a replacement, since he is purchased instead of a Nob, a Nob does not become him.

You are also ignoring the fact that "One ___ may be a Painboy." requires the model becoming the Painboy to already be there. You buy a Flash Git, and then you add the points for him to become a Painboy. There is no other possible way about it. Without a Flash Git, you may not have a Painboy, and in order to have a Flash Git, you must pay Xpts for him.

Avatar 720 wrote: Boss Snikrot for Kommandos is a replacement.

Technically, this is not true. Snikrot is added to the unit, restricting it from taking a Nob, not replacing the Nob. Replacing the Nob would mean you would have one less ork.

Games Workshop Ork FAQ wrote:
Q: Several units have the option to include a named
character as a boss, are they added to the unit or, like a
nob, do they replace one of the existing boyz? (p99-
103)

A: They are added to the unit.

Edit: I think we might be saying the same thing.

Avatar 720 wrote:The term 'Nob' refers to all models that are 'Nobs'. A Painboy is a not a 'Nob' as shown by his seperate statline. If you attached a Big Mek to the squad, he is for all intents and purposes part of the unit; would he then be a Nob?

Painboys are an upgrade. Boss Snikrot for Kommandos is a replacement, since he is purchased instead of a Nob, a Nob does not become him.

You are also ignoring the fact that "One ___ may be a Painboy." requires the model becoming the Painboy to already be there. You buy a Flash Git, and then you add the points for him to become a Painboy. There is no other possible way about it. Without a Flash Git, you may not have a Painboy, and in order to have a Flash Git, you must pay Xpts for him.

A model isn't upgraded, a painboy is added instead of said unit. Tbh it's a debate that can be argued both sides due to an inconsistent codex. If you argue that though, then you are wrong about Snikrot. Snikrot isn't a replacment, Snikrot is an addition, no unit is lost, he is just 85 points for an extra model. A nob is usually caste a a leader of a smaller unit therefore you can't have a Nob aswell as Snikrot because it nullifies the point of addidng a nob for a leader.

Also refer to page 75 of the Ork codex. a 'Kommando Nob' How can he be a Kommando if he is a Nob? Because Kommando is the name of a collective aswell as the individual, the same as Nob being the collective name of a squad of Nobz.

Bloodfever wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:The term 'Nob' refers to all models that are 'Nobs'. A Painboy is a not a 'Nob' as shown by his seperate statline. If you attached a Big Mek to the squad, he is for all intents and purposes part of the unit; would he then be a Nob?

Painboys are an upgrade. Boss Snikrot for Kommandos is a replacement, since he is purchased instead of a Nob, a Nob does not become him.

You are also ignoring the fact that "One ___ may be a Painboy." requires the model becoming the Painboy to already be there. You buy a Flash Git, and then you add the points for him to become a Painboy. There is no other possible way about it. Without a Flash Git, you may not have a Painboy, and in order to have a Flash Git, you must pay Xpts for him.

A model isn't upgraded, a painboy is added instead of said unit. Tbh it's a debate that can be argued both sides due to an inconsistent codex. If you argue that though, then you are wrong about Snikrot. Snikrot isn't a replacment, Snikrot is an addition, no unit is lost, he is just 85 points for an extra model. A nob is usually caste a a leader of a smaller unit therefore you can't have a Nob aswell as Snikrot because it nullifies the point of addidng a nob for a leader.

Also refer to page 75 of the Ork codex. a 'Kommando Nob' How can he be a Kommando if he is a Nob? Because Kommando is the name of a collective aswell as the individual, the same as Nob being the collective name of a squad of Nobz.

If you go to pg 83 of the codex, then figure out the points spent on the nob unit. you can see he spent 50 pts for the painboy.

Well the picture shows 6 models (5 nobz and a painboy) so it could easily be said it's supposed to read 6 nobz, one Nob (used collectively) is a painboy, for the 30 points. Or maybe it is supposed to read 5 Nobz, but as the painboy isn't a Nob upgrade, but it's own entity, he can't be classed as a nob.

Thinking about it, it makes sense, maybe it says 'one nob may be a painboy' to stop people exploiting unit composition, so people don't have 10 nobz and a painboy. Again, confirms the term 'nob' is also used as a general term for each model in the unit.

Bloodfever wrote:Well the picture shows 6 models (5 nobz and a painboy) so it could easily be said it's supposed to read 6 nobz, one Nob (used collectively) is a painboy, for the 30 points. Or maybe it is supposed to read 5 Nobz, but as the painboy isn't a Nob upgrade, but it's own entity, he can't be classed as a nob.

Thinking about it, it makes sense, maybe it says 'one nob may be a painboy' to stop people exploiting unit composition, so people don't have 10 nobz and a painboy. Again, confirms the term 'nob' is also used as a general term for each model in the unit.

interesting, after looking at that again, I'm now inclined to agree with you. it sure does look like its a painboy for 30.

Bloodfever wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:The term 'Nob' refers to all models that are 'Nobs'. A Painboy is a not a 'Nob' as shown by his seperate statline. If you attached a Big Mek to the squad, he is for all intents and purposes part of the unit; would he then be a Nob?

Painboys are an upgrade. Boss Snikrot for Kommandos is a replacement, since he is purchased instead of a Nob, a Nob does not become him.

You are also ignoring the fact that "One ___ may be a Painboy." requires the model becoming the Painboy to already be there. You buy a Flash Git, and then you add the points for him to become a Painboy. There is no other possible way about it. Without a Flash Git, you may not have a Painboy, and in order to have a Flash Git, you must pay Xpts for him.

A model isn't upgraded, a painboy is added instead of said unit. Tbh it's a debate that can be argued both sides due to an inconsistent codex. If you argue that though, then you are wrong about Snikrot. Snikrot isn't a replacment, Snikrot is an addition, no unit is lost, he is just 85 points for an extra model. A nob is usually caste a a leader of a smaller unit therefore you can't have a Nob aswell as Snikrot because it nullifies the point of addidng a nob for a leader.

Also refer to page 75 of the Ork codex. a 'Kommando Nob' How can he be a Kommando if he is a Nob? Because Kommando is the name of a collective aswell as the individual, the same as Nob being the collective name of a squad of Nobz.

Stop ignoring my point.

In order to have a Nob that becomes a Painboy, one must first purchase a Nob.

That is completely indisputible. You cannot simply buy a Painboy, because you do not currently have a Nob to be one.

How in any way, shape or form does 'On Nob may be a Painboy' allow you to skip the purchase of the Nob that becomes said Painboy?

No Nob? No Painboy.

Bloodfever - one nob may be a painboy.

Find a nob. That cost you 20 points. Now you can have him become a painboy. That costs you another 30 points. total cost, 50 points.

Painboys are 50 points, end of. Please do a search on the number of times this comes up

Fine, ok, I will stand by my views and you have yours, I have the rules and codex to back me up plus I wasn't ignoring you, I just don't see the point in flogging a dead horse when you can't comprehend that it's possible for a nob to be a painboy before you add him to the squad! What seems more feasible, for a group of 9 nobz to add a painboy to the group or for 1 of a group of 10 nobz to just decide to be an oddboy!? If you really want to get pedantic about it, an Ork (supposed nob in nob squad) according to canon, CANNOT just 'upgrade' to be a painboy, oddboyz are oddboyz from birth, therefore an ork/nob can BE an oddboy but cannot upgrade to be 1.

So, again, yes, a nob (collective term for a member of the squad) can be an painboy BUT it mentions nothing about enhancing an already purchased model. Its exactly like saying 'A squad member may become a painboy'

and nosferatu, I HAVE searched for the same query and as hard as it may be to believe, as explained in my previous post, I have found an explanation that coincided with what I am saying, which has alot more ground to stand on than your assumptions on what is written.

Thank you

Avatar 720 , this is a thread to answer the OP's question. If you aren't interested to answer the question, or wish to talk about something else, please create a thread of your own.

It's just basic courtesy.

Bloodfever wrote:

So, again, yes, a nob (collective term for a member of the squad) can be an painboy BUT it mentions nothing about enhancing an already purchased model.

Of course it does. It talks about him replacing his slugga and choppa with a docs tools and 'urty syringe. How does he do this if your not upgrading a nob?

The Painboy costs 50 points. Any ambiguity in the cost is in the poor wording of that Army List entry and the Flash Gitz compared to the others. I made the same mistake of thinking one only cost 30 points until I submitted the list for my first Tournament. Sorry.

And even though I agree with Avatar 720, there is no excuse for anyone to be rude or pedantic. 'Check your codex' does not answer the question.

Bloodfever - no, you dont have rules on your side.

Spotted the bit where the Nobs weapons are replaced? Got there yet? That means you need a nob to begin with, in order to have any weapons to replace.

A painboy is 50 points. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bloodfever wrote:If you really want to get pedantic about it, an Ork (supposed nob in nob squad) according to canon, CANNOT just 'upgrade' to be a painboy, oddboyz are oddboyz from birth, therefore an ork/nob can BE an oddboy but cannot upgrade to be 1.

Fluff=/=rules. Don't fudge the issue.

This is alot of post for a easy answer its 30 pts

Um, no, it's 50pts.

As above, you have to buy the nob first, to convert it into a painboy.

Due to the wording on the weapon swaps there has to be a nob first.

Cpl, please cite sources. A blanket statement such as "easy answer its 30 pts" doesn't help. Everyone who is claiming 50 pts is backing it up with reasoning from the codex.