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Pretty sure I know how we'd do it at our local gaming club, but I wanted to see what YMDC thought of it. If its in the BRB , I apologize in advance, but mine is not with me. Here's the situation:
I have 3 Wyche squads of 9 wyches, (actually one squad is Hekatrix Bloodbrides but that takes to long to type, oh look at that, I just did).
Now , Under some good advice from other DAkkaites, I am fielding 3 Haemoncolus with them in lue ,of Hekatrixes, thus giving them Feel no Pain. Now here comes the question and my thoughts on it:
Wyches have Fleet, thus allowing them to Run, Move again then assault, but the Hammy does not have it.
How does one get around this, in order to continue to fleet the whyches? Must I detach the HAmmy each time I want to fleet to my opponants squad? My take on it is that the Wyches continue to Fleet as always , but the HAmmy will end up at the tail end of the squad, having been at the front at the end of the movement phase.
Whats the proper way of handling this, or am I correct with the Hammy playing catch up?

The Wyches (with Haemoncolus) is still able to Run (as nothing is stopping that). However, since the Hammy is not fleet, the unit would not be able to assault after running.

What he said.

If you want to fleet, you need to detach the IC in the movement phase.

See? Glad I asked that. Hammys with Wyches is a new one for me. Thank you very much Gents, I prefer doing things the right way.

give the Ham a LG, detach, and let him wander around "hopefully" nuking things.

Or put the wyches and haemonculus in a raider, move the raider, disembark the wyches leaving the haemy on board, run them and then assault.

But as said, if even one model in a squad doesn't have the fleet rule, then the unit cannot run and then assault.

That's because fleet is a USR wiht an asterisk, so the rule is lost unless all members of the unit have it.

True Story, Hammy left to wander in the raider is better idea.

worldwarme wrote:Pretty sure I know how we'd do it at our local gaming club, but I wanted to see what YMDC thought of it. If its in the BRB , I apologize in advance, but mine is not with me. Here's the situation:
I have 3 Wyche squads of 9 wyches, (actually one squad is Hekatrix Bloodbrides but that takes to long to type, oh look at that, I just did).
Now , Under some good advice from other DAkkaites, I am fielding 3 Haemoncolus with them in lue ,of Hekatrixes, thus giving them Feel no Pain. Now here comes the question and my thoughts on it:
Wyches have Fleet, thus allowing them to Run, Move again then assault, but the Hammy does not have it.
How does one get around this, in order to continue to fleet the whyches? Must I detach the HAmmy each time I want to fleet to my opponants squad? My take on it is that the Wyches continue to Fleet as always , but the HAmmy will end up at the tail end of the squad, having been at the front at the end of the movement phase.
Whats the proper way of handling this, or am I correct with the Hammy playing catch up?

Uh what? No you run the haemy in addition to the hekatrix and then leave him behind in the raider. If one member of the squad runs and another does not have fleet then in the assault phase you have to go as slow as the slowest model. In this case they guy who cannot charge if the squad ran. And it is either the squad runs or it does not, it is not this guy runs and this one does not. So yes leave the haemy behind and let the wyches/brides take the pain token from the haemy with share the pain.

worldwarme wrote:... I am fielding 3 Haemoncolus with them.

Can you field 3 Haemoncolus? Aren't they an HQ option so you can only field two?

0-3 Haem per slot.

Characters leave a unit at the end of their movement phase so long as they are more than 2" away, right? Would said squad of wytches be able to Fleet in the shooting phase if the Haemy was no longer part of the unit?

why not? At the beginning of the shooting/Fleeting phase they are now separate units.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Characters leave a unit at the end of their movement phase so long as they are more than 2" away, right? Would said squad of wytches be able to Fleet in the shooting phase if the Haemy was no longer part of the unit?

Not to nitpick, but just to clarify the term.

Fleet is not an action, it is a special rule.

Many units can run in the shooting phase, wyches among them. Fleet is the USR that gives wyches and some other units permission to assault in the same turn that they run.

And as Lunchmonkey said, if the haemy is no longer attached to the wyches (or any other IC without the fleet USR for that matter) then the wyches can indeed run suring their shooting phase and then assault in their assault phase.

I tip my hat to you, time wizard, as I should have been more clear in my statement. You are entirely correct in that Fleet is a special rule allowing a unit to assault after running during their movement phase.

The term Fleet is used (probably colloquially as a carryover from 3rd or 4th edition) in my area to represent the Running action itself, so I apologize for it's misuse.

Thanks to both you and Lunchmonkey for the verification on splitting Fleet/non-Fleet units.

Just to clarify, if you use the run to move more then 2" from Hammy (and he began the turn with them), he's still part of the squad and they cannot assault. So be sure he's in a DT or more than 2" at the end of the movement phase, not just before the assault phase.

Or more accurately, because you can only leave during the movement phase he must maintain coherency if you run during the shooting phase. So you can't run more than 2" from him during the shooting phase.

Chrysis wrote:Or more accurately, because you can only leave during the movement phase he must maintain coherency if you run during the shooting phase. So you can't run more than 2" from him during the shooting phase.

touche

Can someone please please tell me who on earth told this poor sap to remove Hekatrix's for Hemmy's? Wyches are nigh worthless w/o Agonizers.

Saptilladerky wrote:Can someone please please tell me who on earth told this poor sap to remove Hekatrix's for Hemmy's? Wyches are nigh worthless w/o Agonizers.

His opponents posting on Dakka? Always take a Hek w/ Agon. The other 8 wyches are just the transport system.

Lunchmonkey wrote:
His opponents posting on Dakka? Always take a Hek w/ Agon. The other 8 wyches are just the transport system.

That would depend on which combat drug was rolled up.

But I agree that I always include a hekatrix with agonizer with my wyches, and a syren with agonizer with my bloodbrides.

There isn't a combat drug that makes them as useful as that agonizer. And it's too hard to count on random.

Saptilladerky wrote:There isn't a combat drug that makes them as useful as that agonizer. And it's too hard to count on random.

As useful is a debatable term. I have been known to roll all misses with the agonizer, and to roll a good number of wounds with my regular wyches.

However, I agree that the agonizer ignoring armor saves is generally speaking better than the regular wyches!

But +1 to strength does nothing for the agonizer either.

Meh. +1 str still makes it so you're wounding (maybe) on 4's. +1 A only shines when you have 2 tokens for furious charge (so you can get the 4's to hit w/the extra attacks). Rerolls to wound are nice, but you're still hitting on 5's and still let them have their saves. Weapon skill is in the same boat. Usually doesn't offer any extra defense and 3's to hit with 5's to wound is still pretty subpar. Extra token is sweet, but usually means the hemmy ends up keeping one for no reason. Run distance in an all Wych army might actually be one of the strongest drugs depending on who you're playing.

All of these are very unpredictable. The Agonizer is the same every time. I know all the woes of missing all those agonizer wounds, trust me when I say that. But ultimately, it's that one piece of wargear that makes them useful in any way in CC (other than tarpitting walkers/MCs).

Saptilladerky wrote:Can someone please please tell me who on earth told this poor sap to remove Hekatrix's for Hemmy's? Wyches are nigh worthless w/o Agonizers.

Okay, first, I don't feel like a poor sap. That decision did not come as advice, it came at a points based decision to trade off the Hekatrix's extra 10+10 +2 (, Base cost, Uprade Cost , Haywire cost) cost before Power weapons. It wasn't a call that came without consideration towards the Hekatrix's strengths. I simply wanted to try it out and see how the out come came. I fielded 2 -9 man wyche squads with 1 ass wpn, haywire grenades and 2D6 for comabt drugs (as Duke was in this list) and 1 Hammy with Liq Gun and Venom blade with each I Had 2 -5 man squads with a Hek / venom blade, 1 Ass wpn and HWG, mounted in venoms(SC=GT). I also fielded a 10 man Hekatrix Bloodbride squad with 3 Ass wpns , HWG and Syren with power weapon, accompanied bt a Hammy with Liq gun and Venom Blade. The squads not in Venoms were in raiders with FF& GT.
It went very well and I detroyed my Necron opponant.
Again, not new to my army, just play testing some stuff is all.

That said, I will also state that if you Truely believe Wyches are worthless without a Hek/ agonizer, then I'd re-examine how you are assessing them, because that staement is wildly in accurate. One 4+ Power Weapon on an upgraded Character makes or breaks a squad with 4+ invul, FNP(Often), multiple assaults, ant-tank capability, Fleet? Really?

Ok you said that it was under advice from someone here on Dakka so that is what we went with. Now before your go all in with using a haemy as a replacement for a hekatrix consider that you beat necrons in CC which isn't that hard for the most part. Granted some of there things can be rough but not most. Then you loose the ability to charge after running. That's probably the biggest one.

Okay, so I hade to edit my last post because it wasn't 100% accurate as to how I was fielding the Wyches.
I'll clarify. The advice was for someone else 's army list here on Dakka, which I saw and read and said" Hmmmm ets see how that'll work for me." The poster never said trade out the Hekatrixes. I wasn't some poor fool being mislead. That particular trade out was my call, and not an easy one to come to. But in the end, giving a squad FNP, thereby giving them a hope of survivng some shooting , should I not consolidate as well as I wanted to, or get my raider shot down in an in opportune moment, it seemed like a fair trade off. In CC they'd be that much more survivable. I also liked using the liquifier gun when a fleet move wasn't required, or when my detached hammy had a taget of opportunity. Now Ideally, of course I'd want to keep the Hekatrix. But I decded that this time, I'd rather allocate those points to have a couple of other little nuisence squads kicking around. Besides, i never leave 1 wyche squad unsupported by another, so really , the hek wasn't missed. Did it work for me? Yes. Will it work against all comers? Not likely, but thats why I play tested it.
I always enjoy reading peoples comments and critiques on their posts, or on one of mine. If its advice, I'll take it or leave it, simple as that. I am not ignorant about my army, nor am I as too its potentials. I simply have enough stuff to try out a variety of lists.
And with that, thanks for the advice, the comments/ discussion and opinions

Its worth noting, you cannot disembark the wyches and leave the harm in the raider. It breaks the disembark rules and ic joining and leaving a squad rules. Squads can't leave an ic but an ic can leave a squad during movement phase, since the squad cannot partially disembark you are not allowed to leave the harm aboard the raider and let out the wyches. As you cannot disembark and then embark in the same turn (barring consolidation) the harm either has to leVe on their own or pop out the other side and wait to embark next turn.

blaktoof wrote:Its worth noting, you cannot disembark the wyches and leave the harm in the raider.

Yes you can. Look at the top right column of page 67, independent characters embarking and disembarking is the section.

The IC can leave the unit by disembarking leaving the unit on board and vice versa, as well as a few other options.

blaktoof wrote:Its worth noting, you cannot disembark the wyches and leave the harm in the raider. It breaks the disembark rules and ic joining and leaving a squad rules. Squads can't leave an ic but an ic can leave a squad during movement phase, since the squad cannot partially disembark you are not allowed to leave the harm aboard the raider and let out the wyches. As you cannot disembark and then embark in the same turn (barring consolidation) the harm either has to leVe on their own or pop out the other side and wait to embark next turn.

You may want to re-read page 67, above the "Effects of Damage Results on Passengers"

I will have to check that, thanks!