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Ok so i play Chaos Space Marines and i want to specialise my army to my fluff. I play Word Bearers and want to have named characters in my army. So like have a named HQ using an offical CSM special characters stats, having a champion in my squad and give him a name and say his power fist is special and call it something, but still using that standard costs and rules.

I started doing my HQ last night and done his profile, would you accept this in a game.
He is based off Kharn.


Dark Apostle Jarulek Cost : 165 Points

WS-7 BS-5 S-5 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-5 Ld-10 Sv-3+


Unit Type:
- Infantry
Number/Squad:
1
Wargear:
 Power Armour
 Plasma Pistol
 Frag Grenades
 Krak Grenades
 Kharnagar’s Scourge
 Personal Icon
Special Rules:
 Fearless
 Independent Character
 5+ Invulnerable Save
 Furious Charge
 Dark Rage
 Blessings Of The Dark Gods

Kharnagar’s Scourge: Jarulek carries ritually defiled Accursed Crozius called Kharnagar’s Scourge. This daemonic artefact is from the time of the Great Crusade and takes the form as a giant adamantium mace with four protruding axe blades out of its head. Jarulek’s close combat attacks always hit a foe with a weapon skill on a roll of 2+, In addition Kharnagar’s Scourge is treated as a power weapon that adds +1 to Jarulek’s Strength and Initiative (bonus already included in profile) and against units with an armour value, add D6 to Jarulek’s armour penetration rolls.

Dark Rage: Jarulek slips in and out of what is known as the Dark Rage from wielding Kharnagar’s Scourge, and as a result Jarulek may attack anyone nearby in his berserk fury, friend and foe alike! Any of Jarulek’s to hit rolls of 1 in close combat have hit his own side. Resolve the hits on a random friendly model in the same combat, as if they were hit by the enemy, using Jarulek’s weapons and profile. If there are no other friendly units in the same combat as Jarulek, these attacks simply miss.

Blessings Of The Dark Gods: Jarulek is immune to the effects of psychic powers, and force weapons count as normal force weapons against him.

For 165 points - immune to psychic powers?

I would take a tip from Forgeworld - if you're making up something you want to play for the cool factor make it slightly overcosted. Then nobody will complain. Otherwise its powergaming disguised as narrative.

That being said, not even the Emperor is immune to psychic powers.

This goes in Proposed Rules.

Nemesor Dave wrote:For 165 points - immune to psychic powers?

I would take a tip from Forgeworld - if you're making up something you want to play for the cool factor make it slightly overcosted. Then nobody will complain. Otherwise its powergaming disguised as narrative.

That being said, not even the Emperor is immune to psychic powers.

I didn't make it up, its an official stats and rule of a Kharn. i just reworded it so to speak, just so it fits the fluff of my army


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:This goes in Proposed Rules.

This isn't about rules, its asking you guys to Make Da Call on if you think this is acceptable for a legitimate game

IXLoiero95XI wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:For 165 points - immune to psychic powers?

I would take a tip from Forgeworld - if you're making up something you want to play for the cool factor make it slightly overcosted. Then nobody will complain. Otherwise its powergaming disguised as narrative.

That being said, not even the Emperor is immune to psychic powers.

I didn't make it up, its an official stats and rule of a Kharn. i just reworded it so to speak, just so it fits the fluff of my army

My bad then, I'm not familiar with Karn. If all the stats are the same, you can call him whatever you want, paint him any color, and even convert him to look the way you want.

Yes if you have the converted model the same size and same sized base as the Karn model its perfectly legal and nobody should have a problem with this.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

IXLoiero95XI wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:For 165 points - immune to psychic powers?

I would take a tip from Forgeworld - if you're making up something you want to play for the cool factor make it slightly overcosted. Then nobody will complain. Otherwise its powergaming disguised as narrative.

That being said, not even the Emperor is immune to psychic powers.

I didn't make it up, its an official stats and rule of a Kharn. i just reworded it so to speak, just so it fits the fluff of my army

My bad then, I'm not familiar with Karn. If all the stats are the same, you can call him whatever you want, paint him any color, and even convert him to look the way you want.

Yes if you have the converted model the same size and same sized base as the Karn model its perfectly legal and nobody should have a problem with this.

Ok thats what i thought, but my brother keeps saying that no chaplain is that strong, Astarte's or Traitor, and keeps saying if he was using a chaplains stats he would let it go, but there are no chaplains in the CSM dex

You don't need anyones permission to run something like this. As long as you aren't changing rules or stats, and only changing fluff, you won't have any problems.

voices is correct. You haven't changed any rules, so you just say "here is my counts as Kharn." You don't need opponent's permission for that.

If your brother is still in doubt show him the Space Marines codex. It explicitly allows you to use the rules of a special character and rename and paint it to fit your army's fluff.

That's ridiculous, he's WAY better than the tomb stalker for 40 less points...:(

You need to change a few things.

1) He needs a Mark of Khorne.
2) The Scourge doesn't add to his S or I.

Other than that, changing fluff is perfectly acceptable.

You: "This is the leader of my army, Dark Apostle Jarulek. He is a counts-as Kharn."

Conversation over.

Seriously, for game purposes, this is all your opponent needs to know. He needs to know that model is Kharn the Betrayer, that's it.

Just make him a counts as kharn model, then you can use it no matter what.

Your original idea, for the points cost is too cheap.

juraigamer wrote:Just make him a counts as kharn model, then you can use it no matter what.

Your original idea, for the points cost is too cheap.

It's functionally identical to Kharn. He just changed names around, dropped the Mark of Khorne and moved its bonus over to the CCW. You can't say it's too cheap, as it's the exact same points as an official, identical model.

Grakmar wrote:

juraigamer wrote:Just make him a counts as kharn model, then you can use it no matter what.

Your original idea, for the points cost is too cheap.

It's functionally identical to Kharn. He just changed names around, dropped the Mark of Khorne and moved its bonus over to the CCW. You can't say it's too cheap, as it's the exact same points as an official, identical model.

Sadly it's not exactly the same, due to that he would need his opponents permission.

The only thing i see different from the original kharn stuff is the extra strength from his weapon. so it doesnt look too bad to me. i would probably add 10 points just to satisfy opponents. i would accept this in a game quite happily. I see people playing counts as models all the time.

Litanyoffury1 wrote:The only thing i see different from the original kharn stuff is the extra strength from his weapon. so it doesnt look too bad to me. i would probably add 10 points just to satisfy opponents. i would accept this in a game quite happily. I see people playing counts as models all the time.

The extra strength seems to just be fluff, he states it's included in his profile (which if I'm not mistaken is the same as Kharn's). Sounds like a way of justifying why he has Kharn's strength.

I'll excuse those that haven't looked at Kharn or know his stats.

This IS Kharn. You are not only allowed to create your own characters and fluff in 40k and use the cost and profile of GW characters... YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO

This characters of yours is 100% legal. You can nicely tell your brother to shove it.

Tell any opponent "here's my counts as Kharn, I've created some different fluff for him. Would you like to see it? Here's page 48 and 91 of the Codex, so you can compare if you wish"

Any tourney that allows SC would allow this. You're ironclad. Cool character! Enjoy!

Cheers guys for all your responses much appreciated for all your help. Do you guys like the fluff part ??