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So me and my friend got into an argument on if Dark Eldar is over powered or not and i told him that they were not that they are like glass guns they can shoot but die in an instant after being shot at if anything my firend has an overpowered army he plays space wolves.

So what do you guys think??
go ahead and leave comments if you want

If you know how to exploit their strengths DE can be a very hard army to beat, but on the other hand if you can corner them and hit them with lots of firepower they are doomed. I run a wyche cult and if I get disabled before I can get to you then my army is ineffective for the most part.

They're glass cannons, and require finesse to play well. I will say they can do an MSU spam that raises my blood pressure to an unhealthy level though. Disregarding that particular build, I think they're great and not overpowered.

SW aren't over-powered.
They are under-costed.
DE aren't over-powered they are a glass cannon army.

What part of being rather expensive and fragile would make Dark Eldar overpowered?

purplefood wrote:SW aren't over-powered.
They are under-costed.
DE aren't over-powered they are a glass cannon army.

Remind me of how many Heavy Weapons a standard squad of wolves can have?

a normal squad can take 2

purplefood wrote:SW aren't over-powered.
They are under-costed.
DE aren't over-powered they are a glass cannon army.

Under-costing is another viable form of overpowering.

a normal squad can take 2

Special weapons, not heavy. Space wolves with ML can take 5.

They look terrifying on paper.

If a perfect set up happened and I could fire every gun to max effectiveness I could do the following in one turn.

This is a 1500 point list.

x15 S8 AP 2 shots
x2 S6 AP1 shots
x94 4+ poison shots
x8 4+ poison blast templates.

Looks scary, but realize that I don't have a single armor save better than 5+. There isn't a single model with a toughness higher than 3. There isn't a single Inv save in the whole army. Any S4 or better gun has a chance to keep my vehicles from firing for 1 turn.

Yup... Glass cannon is the best description. They can destroy any list on the table, but can drop to any list as well, its all about target priority and which player does it better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

purplefood wrote:SW aren't over-powered.
They are under-costed.
DE aren't over-powered they are a glass cannon army.

Under-costing is another viable form of overpowering.

Yet they are still different. Undercosting can be fixed by outside influences (simply make everything else cheaper as well). Suddenly stuff that was undercosted is now the norm. Overpowered cannot be compensated for except by a change in mechanics.

For example - Infinite attack generating dreadnaughts will always be overpowered. 15 point grey hunters will no longer be undercosted if SM get reduced to 13 points in their next book.

Jayden63 wrote:They look terrifying on paper.

If a perfect set up happened and I could fire every gun to max effectiveness I could do the following in one turn.

This is a 1500 point list.

x15 S8 AP 2 shots
x2 S6 AP1 shots
x94 4+ poison shots
x8 4+ poison blast templates.

Looks scary, but realize that I don't have a single armor save better than 5+. There isn't a single model with a toughness higher than 3. There isn't a single Inv save in the whole army. Any S4 or better gun has a chance to keep my vehicles from firing for 1 turn.

Yup... Glass cannon is the best description. They can destroy any list on the table, but can drop to any list as well, its all about target priority and which player does it better.




They have models with a higher than T3 and inv saves

foofloof wrote:So me and my friend got into an argument on if Dark Eldar is over powered or not and i told him that they were not that they are like glass guns they can shoot but die in an instant after being shot at if anything my firend has an overpowered army he plays space wolves.

So what do you guys think??
go ahead and leave comments if you want

(Not sure if being serious and sarcastic)

Not at all. Dark Eldar have to fork out a lot of points for their transports, which are extremely easy to destroy even with the negligible defence of flicker fields (I have yet to pass a single one).They also have an expensive anti-tank weapon that can't be concentrated cheaply or bought in bulk for anything save a ravager. Even then the weapon is too low strength to efficiently blow up vehicles and so DE suffer against mech armies. Wyches also lack the punching power to kill marines unless you get lucky with drugs and your rolls; maybe with some pain tokens. Putting down necrons is a nightmare. The archons low strength and liability to instantly die mitigates against her being a CC monster, the same is true of Lelith (whose lack of combat drugs/ str boosting and re-rolls really harms effects her effectiveness). Nifty kit can upgrade them but they can't really become CC monsters. In fact they have pretty average firepower and close combat. Their primary advantage is speed and being able to overwhelm your opponent. Send two wych squads at one marine squad. Kill it. Get pain tokens. Combined with shooting and FNP they might survive the counter-shooting. In other words you take a massive gamble with DE. They really can massively go wrong.

Sorry I added my reply in to your quote ><

They're powerful in the hands of a skilled player. In the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them, they will crash and burn. That's not overpowered.

Oh Sorry i was just saying that i didn't think that they were overpowered but my friend does think they are and says so every time i play them

Durza wrote:They're powerful in the hands of a skilled player. In the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them, they will crash and burn. That's not overpowered.

This. It's pretty much the same as they always have been. They were highly competitive in the hands of experienced players back before they got a new codex as well.

I will point out that it is pretty annoying that a Space Wolves player is complaining about someone else being over powered.

thats what i am saying lol

They are one of the best balances codecii outn there right now, internally and externally.

Especially when you compare then to the batgak some of the other recent codexes can throw out.

They are vicious on offense, but lousy at defense, and can have their entire army shot off the board on turn 1 if they lose the initiative (with bad luck or enemy good luck).

They also pay a premium for their whiztricks, especially compared to similar wargeat in other codexes...

Basically they have to feth you up before you swing, or they are dead.

I hate DE, but they're not OP, I'm just not very good at adapting to their lists, and I play them so infrequently that I'm really sloppy againt them (which equates to dead), while its not like a PA list is a new thing to them.

Well over half my loses are to DE. Grrrr.

Overpowered? Compared to what? Tau? Tyranids? You betcha. Everything else? Nope. The DE are an example of a finesse army, and one that operates the way any finesse army should: manuver and target priority taking the place of good toughness and armor saves.

Emerett wrote:

purplefood wrote:SW aren't over-powered.
They are under-costed.
DE aren't over-powered they are a glass cannon army.

Remind me of how many Heavy Weapons a standard squad of wolves can have?

A standard squad? None.
A GH can take no heavy weapons.
A BC squad can take no heavy weapons.
Incidentally thank you to Jayden63

Dark Eldar isn't over powered. In fact its a very good book. Its not overpowered, but its not underpowered either. Its a great book at the moment.

definitly not over powered. some people just dont know how to play them, or see the large number of units/models they can field and get jittery - wich leads to mistakes and losses. and i find people who complain "x" is over powered are people who cant beat "x" with their "y". the DE book is one of the best gw has ever released, its rules make sense with the fluff, the fluff is believeable and the entire book has a great sense of symmetry and playablity across just about every unit (except mandrakes)

Tell your friend to save the points and play his three long fangs with 5 heavy bolters each... you will find the DE are paper airplanes and will die horribly. The thing that is counter intuitive about the DE is that ML are a true waste.
The DE can kill anything but then again the die to anything so it is pretty even.

No, they're not overpowered, at least, in my opinion anyway.

If some players would drop their Plasma Rifles or Meltas for a Flamer or two against Dark Eldar, they might have a different opinion...

the best way I can think to describe DE is as follows.

Some armies are like Oak, Solid and can take a beating far beyond any other.

DE on the other hand are like Bamboo, Fluid and have amazing flexibility, but, once a crack shows, it will shatter into a thousand pieces.

DE are a glass blade, subtle, dangerous, but if you have no idea what you are doing with them, they will break. For me, i've seen countless people buy DE because they think they are cool... trouble is they give up the moment the get beaten on and sell their armies. DE are an experienced gamers army. As are aspects of other Codices.

DAaddict wrote:Tell your friend to save the points and play his three long fangs with 5 heavy bolters each... you will find the DE are paper airplanes and will die horribly. The thing that is counter intuitive about the DE is that ML are a true waste.
The DE can kill anything but then again the die to anything so it is pretty even.

My blood angles build actually runs two units of devs, one is heavy bolters one is missile launchers. Against DE the HBs are solid gold and have surprised a fair few DE opponents. For some reason they always die quickly on the second game we play.

Jayden63 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:Tell your friend to save the points and play his three long fangs with 5 heavy bolters each... you will find the DE are paper airplanes and will die horribly. The thing that is counter intuitive about the DE is that ML are a true waste.
The DE can kill anything but then again the die to anything so it is pretty even.

My blood angles build actually runs two units of devs, one is heavy bolters one is missile launchers. Against DE the HBs are solid gold and have surprised a fair few DE opponents. For some reason they always die quickly on the second game we play.

hehe, I'd love killing your army with my my Wych cult

Thanks guys finally got him to admit he was wrong

Totalwar1402 wrote:

foofloof wrote:So me and my friend got into an argument on if Dark Eldar is over powered or not and i told him that they were not that they are like glass guns they can shoot but die in an instant after being shot at if anything my firend has an overpowered army he plays space wolves.

So what do you guys think??
go ahead and leave comments if you want

(Not sure if being serious and sarcastic)

Not at all. Dark Eldar have to fork out a lot of points for their transports, which are extremely easy to destroy even with the negligible defence of flicker fields (I have yet to pass a single one).They also have an expensive anti-tank weapon that can't be concentrated cheaply or bought in bulk for anything save a ravager. Even then the weapon is too low strength to efficiently blow up vehicles and so DE suffer against mech armies. Wyches also lack the punching power to kill marines unless you get lucky with drugs and your rolls; maybe with some pain tokens. Putting down necrons is a nightmare. The archons low strength and liability to instantly die mitigates against her being a CC monster, the same is true of Lelith (whose lack of combat drugs/ str boosting and re-rolls really harms effects her effectiveness). Nifty kit can upgrade them but they can't really become CC monsters. In fact they have pretty average firepower and close combat. Their primary advantage is speed and being able to overwhelm your opponent. Send two wych squads at one marine squad. Kill it. Get pain tokens. Combined with shooting and FNP they might survive the counter-shooting. In other words you take a massive gamble with DE. They really can massively go wrong.

I presume your talking about the dark lance? strength 8 lance isn't that bad really especially as you get one for every transport and can get 3 on ravagers and 2 on voidravens

i dont see why lances are so malinged. they do great on transports or light armor, and make tougher armors, not so much. ive had nothing but good reliable results from my lance weapons. and a lance is just as effective against a landraider or monolith as a railcannon, and more so then lazcannons. the only thing it lacks is the AP 1 for extra damage, but thats a pretty rare feature on anything except melta.

lance spam ftw