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had an idea in this forum

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/439535.page

looted wagon with grot riggers, ard case rpj, and 2 big shootas 65 points
10 grots with ruth 40 points

105 points total

2 weapons and grots to try and keep up the vehicle, and rpj to move 7 inches and shoot while still getting hit on 6's

likely mostly try to keep it out of LOS to most things but within 13 inches of an objective to claim in the last turn

G00fySmiley wrote:and rpj to move 7 inches and shoot while still getting hit on 6's

If moving at 7" (6" + 1" for RPJ) you're still moving at combat speed, so 4+ to hit in CC.

Still, a fairly cheap objective snatcher.

righto, my bad, still mostly i'd hide the thing like i would grots, but av11 with ard case i'm probably going to try it in an 1850 tourney this weekend, i'll report how it goes unless somebody has a good reason not to

It's kind of a funny idea, if you could take 6 as dedicated filled with grots then 3 others in the heavy slots filled with nobs would be laughable. But a single one I can't really see the point.

wait i think 7 inches counts as 6 for shooting but still get hit on 6's due to rpj as you take the advantages nto the disavantages, thats why i take it on my battlewagons anyway 7 inches then unload 4 big shootas per turn generally.

and i wouldn't throw a full list of em, its jsut somethign to throw on the field and hope it gets ignored and is just a objective taker, its an 1850 tourney with 3 battlewagons in it already(1 is nobz dedicated transport)

RPJ lets you move 7" but you're still moving at combat speed. So it is definatly 4+ to hit in close combat. It's a bonus 1" it doesn't put you in a higher speed category.

Also a Battlewagon is NOT a fast vehicle. If you moved at combat speed (7" in your example) it can only fire 1 big shooter (which are not defensive weapons) not all 4.

i've been shooting to many shots then with my bw, but still the rpj it moved cruising speed, but it so it is hit on a 6+ cruising speed by definition simply means you moved over 6 inches but due to rpj you can still shoot as if you moved 6 inches

G00fySmiley wrote:i've been shooting to many shots then with my bw, but still the rpj it moved cruising speed, but it so it is hit on a 6+ cruising speed by definition simply means you moved over 6 inches but due to rpj you can still shoot as if you moved 6 inches

You can't pick and choose. The rule say you count as moving 6" that's means it counts for you and counts for your opponent.

G00fySmiley wrote:i've been shooting to many shots then with my bw, but still the rpj it moved cruising speed, but it so it is hit on a 6+ cruising speed by definition simply means you moved over 6 inches but due to rpj you can still shoot as if you moved 6 inches

Afraid not, the extra 1" doesn't count towards your speed category, you still count as moving 6" (see last sentence RPJ P93 Codex:Orks).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408384.page#3534892

been discussed many times, you move 7 and shoot as if moving 6 but count as moving cruising speed so 6+ to hit

grendel083 wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:i've been shooting to many shots then with my bw, but still the rpj it moved cruising speed, but it so it is hit on a 6+ cruising speed by definition simply means you moved over 6 inches but due to rpj you can still shoot as if you moved 6 inches

Afraid not, the extra 1" doesn't count towards your speed category, you still count as moving 6" (see last sentence RPJ P93 Codex:Orks).

This is wrong. Red paint job explicitly says that you simply increase your movement distance by one, but you will not suffer any of the drawbacks. So you count as moving cruising speed for all aspects except when you would suffer a penalty from moving that extra inch.

the grot can I am happy to report only got wrecked once. it just wasn't enough of a priority target so was able to hide near an objective and hold it unmolested... in retrospec I will use it in friendly games though as it takes up a precious heavy support slot.

still, for a low points tournament it might be worth considering

Jidmah wrote:

grendel083 wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:i've been shooting to many shots then with my bw, but still the rpj it moved cruising speed, but it so it is hit on a 6+ cruising speed by definition simply means you moved over 6 inches but due to rpj you can still shoot as if you moved 6 inches

Afraid not, the extra 1" doesn't count towards your speed category, you still count as moving 6" (see last sentence RPJ P93 Codex:Orks).

This is wrong. Red paint job explicitly says that you simply increase your movement distance by one, but you will not suffer any of the drawbacks. So you count as moving cruising speed for all aspects except when you would suffer a penalty from moving that extra inch.

Exactly. Hitting a moving vehicle is specifically only checked against the distance it actually moved, NOT the movement type declared. A vehicle moving 7" via red paint will have to be hit on 6's.

Edit: Waoh, a bit behind the buck here, apologies!

not too great when you roll a 1 and your wagon drives foward 12, taking the objective holder with it. on turn 7

Ajroo wrote:not too great when you roll a 1 and your wagon drives foward 12, taking the objective holder with it. on turn 7

Put it facing a wall as it has to move as far directly forwards as it can!

That would limit you to capturing objectives that actually have a wall(read, impassible terrain) nearby.

Jidmah wrote:This is wrong. Red paint job explicitly says that you simply increase your movement distance by one, but you will not suffer any of the drawbacks. So you count as moving cruising speed for all aspects except when you would suffer a penalty from moving that extra inch.

This has been debated to death way before this thread. Bottom line is if you come to one of my tournaments you better be ready to accept that "counts as" moving 6" works for you and your opponent.

Gladly the rule does not say it counts as having moved one less inch.

It says you may move one more inch and don't suffer any penalties from it. Getting hit on 6+ instead of 4+ is not a penalty, no matter how you look at it

Jidmah wrote:Gladly the rule does not say it counts as having moved one less inch.

It says you may move one more inch and don't suffer any penalties from it. Getting hit on 6+ instead of 4+ is not a penalty, no matter how you look at it

I (aka Tournament Organizer) rule this way is because in the example it says "you can move 13" but you still count as moving 12" just understand that just because you think it should be played another way doesn't make you wrong or right But it does mean you just better be ready to except the ruling either way when you play in a tournament until GW FAQ's it which I don't see happening anytime soon since this has been debated since the codex released.

General_Chaos wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Gladly the rule does not say it counts as having moved one less inch.

It says you may move one more inch and don't suffer any penalties from it. Getting hit on 6+ instead of 4+ is not a penalty, no matter how you look at it

I (aka Tournament Organizer) rule this way is because in the example it says "you can move 13" but you still count as moving 12" just understand that just because you think it should be played another way doesn't make you wrong or right But it does mean you just better be ready to except the ruling either way when you play in a tournament until GW FAQ's it which I don't see happening anytime soon since this has been debated since the codex released.

I guess I'lll have to avoid tournaments across the country up in michigan where somebody doesn't understand the rules, and jidmah can just avoid american tourney's all together

btw INAT agrees with em and jidmah

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.1.pdf

"do not Incure penalties"

m-w.com Incur: to become liable or subject to : bring down upon oneself.

So with the word incur all straightend out, a penaltie to you is ok but the orks are not subject to them.

pg 63. "only take into account the actual distance covered from its origional position."

I would say that you would need 6's to hit the bw

I think the Red Paint Job discussion belongs in the YMTC section.

the grot can I am happy to report only got wrecked once. it just wasn't enough of a priority target so was able to hide near an objective and hold it unmolested... in retrospec I will use it in friendly games though as it takes up a precious heavy support slot.

still, for a low points tournament it might be worth considering

Glad you had fun at the tournament with it, man!

G00fySmiley wrote:btw INAT agrees with em and jidmah

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.1.pdf

INAT also ruled you could not della rolla vehicles.... then there was a GW FAQ... I don't want to knock INAT but just because they ruled it doesn't make it biblical. Either way I've been down this thread many many moons ago so you all have fun.

General_Chaos wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Gladly the rule does not say it counts as having moved one less inch.

It says you may move one more inch and don't suffer any penalties from it. Getting hit on 6+ instead of 4+ is not a penalty, no matter how you look at it

I (aka Tournament Organizer) rule this way is because in the example it says "you can move 13" but you still count as moving 12" just understand that just because you think it should be played another way doesn't make you wrong or right But it does mean you just better be ready to except the ruling either way when you play in a tournament until GW FAQ's it which I don't see happening anytime soon since this has been debated since the codex released.

There is no point in arguing with a TO on site, ever. If have seen a TO rule that crates of melta bombs start deep striking the second he yelled it across the room or randomly calling "Rock 'em boyz"(d3 10" destroyer blasts with d6 feet scatter) on tables he walked by, nothing you can do about that.

I personally still think it's unfair to induce penalties on the ork player when the rule says the exact opposite. Just like dropping a create of melta bombs on a unit of 29+2 gretchin next to a landraider.