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2012/04/02 23:47:02
Subject: Heresy Averted
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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All kinds of Horus Heresy spoilers ahead.
I quite like hypothetical scenarios, and I've found that w40k lends itself very well to 'what if' situations.
So I tried to think of the biggest potential game changer, and the answer was obviously the Horus Heresy. The age of stagnation and all round grimdarkness of the current IoM can all be traced back to the Horus Heresy, so my question is where would the Imperium be if things turned out differently.
The main question becomes under what circumstances the Heresy was averted, and the most logical scenario I can come up with is that everything up to Horus arriving on Davian's moon happens as stated in the HH books. But instead of acting like an enraged toddler when he gets there and is attacked by the undead, Horus realizes that something is horribly wrong and orders everyone off the moon and orders it to be blown to smithereens.
Realising that Erebus tried to lead him into a cluster$*%! of epic proportions, Horus contacts the Emprah, and together they figure out that Chaos has take hold of some of the Space Marine Legions. Planning and acting in secret, they set up the loyal legions in positions to exterminate the ones turned to chaos, and basically instead of the traitor legions taking the loyalists and the Big E by suprise, the position is reversed.
The Traitor legions and their Primarchs get their asses handed to them in a bad way, pretty much eliminating them all, and decimating the rest in such a way that they no longer pose any kind of threat to the now 'Enlightened about Chaos' Loyalists. Horus was never turned, and becomes closer to his Daddy than ever through them both scouring the ranks of the IoM of traitors.
Fast forward to the 41st millennium, where would the imperium be? What would the Galaxy look like if the Horus Heresy was nipped in the bud?
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2012/04/03 00:50:38
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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The emperor would still be alive, the Iom webway would be built and most if not all xeno races would be wiped out, which would mean they would focus their entire forces against the tyranid threat and take them out as well. Then bored Sm's with nothing to do but sit and twiddle their thumbs would likely cause a rebellion anyway, if they hadn't already.
Nom
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/03 00:51:25
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2012/04/03 04:08:37
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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1) The Webway is under complete Imperial control
2) All Humans are psykers
3) Space Marines are as good as Custodians
4) Custodians are unimaginably good
5) Chaos Powers are destroyed and the warp is partially stable
6) All Eldar are extinct
7) The Orks are contained
8) Human technology is unmaginably advanced and composed of improved and innovated Golden Age of Technology tech, Eldar, and Ork tech
9) Necrons are contained
10) Tyranids are constantly repelled
How this happens:
1) The Emperor let all the Primarchs in on His plan from the beginning
2) Horus gets a seat on the Council of Terra
3) The Emperor/Horus reconciles Dorn and Perturabo, not to mention the other troubled Primarchs
4) Magnus helps the Emperor with the Webway and never made a pact with Tzeentch from the beginning
5) The Black Library is captured, and Commoragh destroyed
6) All Craftworlds are destroyed and the Eldar's technology studied and reverse-enginneered then adapted for Human use; same technology used to safely accelerate Human psychic evolution
7) Ork DNA is taken apart to learn superior shield and teleporter technology
8) An STC is recovered, which allows access to all Golden Age of Technology achievements
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/04/03 04:30:07
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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I think the Heresy was inevitable. Chaos always finds a way. It's effects could've been lessened maybe, but it never could've been prevented.
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2012/04/03 04:41:23
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Confident Marauder Chieftain
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Always like what if stories :-) what would happen if the emperor fell to chaos instead of horus. All the events upto davin take place but instead of listening to erebus horus listens to magnus. The chaos powers instead start whispering to the emperor and somehow manage to corrupt him (before anyone says its a what if) and those legions that remain loyal in the current story were the ones to be corrupted
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 I could Murder a cup of tea  |
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2012/04/03 04:58:26
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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And they all lived happily ever after (exept for anyone not in the Imperium, they all got killed or supressed to the point of near non-existance).
After that. ther eis the possible chance of extention beyond the Milky Way (using a faster then light travel tech that does not rely on the Warp, engineered from Ork/Eldar/STC tech.) and the Crusade of a Thousand Galaxies begins as the Imperium begining expansion beyond the Milky Way.
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Regiment: 91st Schrott Experimental Regiment
Regiment Planet: Schrott 
Specialization: Salvaged, Heavily Modified, and/or Experimental Mechanized Units. 
"SIR! Are you sure this will work!?"
"I HAVE NO IDEA, PULL THE TRIGGER!!!" 91st comms chatter.  |
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2012/04/03 05:29:12
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Scuttling Genestealer
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Tadashi has it pretty well summed up, although Chaos had been manipulating the galaxy to cause the HH for century's, so it was almost impossible to stop, as much as I love the fallen Primarch's (Pre-Heresy) over the Loyalists.
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GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
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2012/04/03 05:38:22
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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GentlemanGuy wrote:Always like what if stories :-) what would happen if the emperor fell to chaos instead of horus. All the events upto davin take place but instead of listening to erebus horus listens to magnus. The chaos powers instead start whispering to the emperor and somehow manage to corrupt him (before anyone says its a what if) and those legions that remain loyal in the current story were the ones to be corrupted
Okies then.
So what if it was the emprah corrupted? what would happen then?
Nom
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2012/04/03 05:51:13
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Sinewy Scourge
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I think it would be very much the same as it is now... SMs would be fighting other SMs all the time because there's nobody else to fight except minority races here and there.
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2012/04/03 15:39:23
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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nomsheep wrote:GentlemanGuy wrote:Always like what if stories :-) what would happen if the emperor fell to chaos instead of horus. All the events upto davin take place but instead of listening to erebus horus listens to magnus. The chaos powers instead start whispering to the emperor and somehow manage to corrupt him (before anyone says its a what if) and those legions that remain loyal in the current story were the ones to be corrupted
Okies then.
So what if it was the emprah corrupted? what would happen then?
Nom
The Emperor knew of the existance of chaos and the chaos gods. He actively had been taking steps to destroy them. He chose to not tell his sons of chaos, so as to avoid any of them becoming suspicious. He worked with them to make his sons in the first place. There is no way that he can be corrupted. I understand the idea of what-ifs, but this one is completely impossible.
Just look at the Grey Knights. Essentially impossible to corrupt to chaos. Now imagine that same resistance to temptation unimaginably maginified.
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2012/04/03 15:43:04
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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In the noble, bright future of the 41st Millennium there is only HIGH ADVENTURE!
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
 The Empire : ~60-70 models.
 1500 pts
 : My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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2012/04/03 16:51:07
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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Brighthammer - A hippies paradise? or a warmongers hell? or alterntively what i reckon might happen to the imperium should the heresy never have occured.
Nom
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2012/04/03 17:06:38
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Aye, a constant state of cold war but nothing like what we have now.
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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2012/04/03 18:23:11
Subject: Heresy Averted
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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LoneLictor wrote:I think the Heresy was inevitable. Chaos always finds a way. It's effects could've been lessened maybe, but it never could've been prevented.
I agree with that, but think how differently it would have turned out if the Emprah and the loyalists got the drop on the traitors instead of the forces of Chaos catching them with their pants around their ankles. No drop site massacre, no loyalists refusing to believe their brothers have turned until they get shot by them, and most importantly, no Warmaster Horus leading them. If Horus had never been turned the Heresy would have been substantially smaller and easier to snuff out.
Tadashi wrote: 5) Chaos Powers are destroyed and the warp is partially stable
I've seen people talking about this a fair deal and it always confuses me. How could the Chaos Powers be defeated, or even weakened for that matter?
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2012/04/03 18:44:45
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Roaring Reaver Rider
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Like any gods chaos is sustained by belief mostly.
No belief = no chaos powers
Nom
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2012/04/03 18:56:44
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Fixture of Dakka
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Tadashi wrote:
5) Chaos Powers are destroyed and the warp is partially stable
6) All Eldar are extinct
Those two don't really go together.
If 5 happened, there's no reason for 6 to occur. Eldar would happily get out of Humanity's way and basically become idle and agreeable if it was Humanity that defeated Chaos.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2012/04/03 20:08:45
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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DarknessEternal wrote:Tadashi wrote:
5) Chaos Powers are destroyed and the warp is partially stable
6) All Eldar are extinct
Those two don't really go together.
If 5 happened, there's no reason for 6 to occur. Eldar would happily get out of Humanity's way and basically become idle and agreeable if it was Humanity that defeated Chaos.
They may become agreeable with Humanity, but Humanity would not tolerate the existance of the Eldar. Just because Chaos is gone doesn't mean the Emperor would just leave them be. Remember that most Imperial citizens do not even know of Chaos at all. So the Emperor tolerating the existance of the Eldar wouldn't make sense to the average citizen. Opening up another can of worms.
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2012/04/03 20:30:59
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Fixture of Dakka
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The Emperor was never that intolerant of other races. He was pro-human, not anti-xenos. Anyone willing to get out of humanities way was welcome to it.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2012/04/03 21:32:58
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Chaos is impossible to destroy. It's only partially powered by belief and worship. The rest of their power comes from emotion.
The Emprah would pretty much have to lobotomize/kill everyone, including himself, if he wanted to permanently get rid of Chaos forever.
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2012/04/03 21:42:35
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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nomsheep wrote:Like any gods chaos is sustained by belief mostly.
No belief = no chaos powers
Nom
Wrong, actually. The chaos gods draw power from emotion, they just get more power from it if the emotion is dedicated to them beforehand. By stopping religion, the Emperor was denying the gods some of this power. They could have survived feeding off other races and a small amount from humanity if the Emperor wasn't thorough enough.
DarknessEternal wrote:The Emperor was never that intolerant of other races. He was pro-human, not anti-xenos. Anyone willing to get out of humanities way was welcome to it.
How so? Humans found to be working with Xenos were given the option to cut ties with them or be exterminated, and even races that didn't attack humans, like the Laer, were only left alone because it would take to long to kill them. Even if the Emperor himself wasn't anti-xenos, his administration certainly was.
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Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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2012/04/03 22:18:10
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Durza wrote:nomsheep wrote:Like any gods chaos is sustained by belief mostly.
No belief = no chaos powers
Nom
Wrong, actually. The chaos gods draw power from emotion, they just get more power from it if the emotion is dedicated to them beforehand. By stopping religion, the Emperor was denying the gods some of this power. They could have survived feeding off other races and a small amount from humanity if the Emperor wasn't thorough enough.
I do have to wonder, where did this opinion that "Belief" somehow created the Gods of Chaos?
Every single Chaos God is essentially a Psychic Reflection of the amassed amount of emotion of every sentient being in existence that registers in the Warp.
ie: Khorne isn't merely the God of Violence - he is Violence. So long as someone out there is smashing skulls in the name of (fill in favorite cause/group) Khorne is getting his "cut" of that - regardless of whether those beings even know he exists.
Durza wrote: DarknessEternal wrote:The Emperor was never that intolerant of other races. He was pro-human, not anti-xenos. Anyone willing to get out of humanities way was welcome to it.
How so? Humans found to be working with Xenos were given the option to cut ties with them or be exterminated, and even races that didn't attack humans, like the Laer, were only left alone because it would take to long to kill them. Even if the Emperor himself wasn't anti-xenos, his administration certainly was.
Now you see, i've seen it argued both ways - which is probably the way that GW wishes it to be so.
Count all the Fluff Materials and the HH relevant work - we're always approaching the Emperor from the Outside. He's always a figure someone else is encountering and reacting to (even if its momentarily).
In other words - we never...ever..ever get to see what's going in between his two ears. The First Person point of view is denied to our relatively Omniscient Bird's Eye Reader's viewpoint. ergo, what's going on in his mind is always a mystery.
Maintaining the mystery of the Emperor is again, a good business/literary practice for GW - it also causes threads like this to be born and helps fuel the minds of the fanion. 
The one thing i have seen that kinda fits the two points together is the following:
Again - what is the Emperor's Primary Purpose? Like from the beginning? - [b]Beat Chaos and Ensure the Survival/Dominance of Mankind in the Universe.
That's the 1 thing we can point to as an overriding goal whether its told via story or told to us explicitly in the various compendiums.
It all comes down to a question of -> How?
This isn't a math equation with a single correct answer at the end. He's had since the Neolithic period to ponder "well how the heck am i going to pull this one off?"
It seems that around the time prior to the Unification of Terra he came up with the following propositions:
1.) The Chaos Gods must draw their power of Belief. Because they are capable of hiding under various guises, it would be difficult to parse out what is a "non-Chaos feeding" religion vs. one that is.
Answer: I need to Eliminate Religion altogether. Its the only way to be certain.
Caveat: Did the Emperor make a mistake here in diagnosing the problem? Did he really think it was Belief (in which case he was wrong) or did he know what it was Emotions feeding the Warp entities (in which case this wasn't a means to terminate the problem - just alleviate).
How you answer the Caveat effects the Xenos Question
2a.) If the Emperor thinks its Belief that is the Issue, then he has to Eliminate the Xenos. Not out of any particular hatred (although the Cultivation of that Hatred might be useful in the Human population that has to go off and actually do the dirty deed), but because he can't possible control the Social Practices of every single sentient species in the universe.
ex. The Frog People of Planet X getting down on their amphibian knees and worshipping BLARGH the Great Frog may in fact be worshipping Khorne, or Nurgle, or Slaneesh - and not even know it!
So if Goal = Eliminate Chaos Gods,then he's going to have to eliminate the Xenos species because (unlike humanity) he can't get them all to Not accidentally worship Chaos.
2b.) If the Emperor thinks that Emotion is the issue - then he's got a problem.
The whole "Great Crusade" is actually one of the largest Buffets that Khorne has gotten in the last millenium or so. Nurgle and Tze are also chowing down - it is a War after all.
The elimination of the Xenos is less a part of the "great master plan" and more of a matter of expediency. Species Y is simply just "in the way" of the Unification of the Imperium.
The Emperor knows he's on a time limit here - he's gotta finish the Webway project and shut off the Great Crusade lest the Chaos Gods gorge themselves on the amount of pain, sufering,and death that has resulted from it.
Now is not the time to sit down and have a cup of tea with say the Eldar (well, esp. not the Eldar).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
All of the above is complicated further by that damnable Old One Tablet found in Xenology.
If that tablet actually implies that one of the surviving Old Ones from the War in Heaven is in fact the Emperor, then it shapes the options above.
In which case - eliminating the Xenos species is simply a way to manuever his own favored servitors (us) above those of his peers.
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2012/04/04 01:06:44
Subject: Heresy Averted
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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I've always thought that the Emprah's Hatred of Xenos and the fact that the great crusade did exterminate a bunch of alien species originated from the big E realising that certain aliens had deeper emotions, and thus a bigger impact on the warp.
The Fall of the Eldar really screwed humanity over by making the warp nearly intraversable for a loooong time, and he wants to avoid something like that again.
Also the vast majority of Xenos attack humanity at the first sight of them, so the hatred is partially justified.
Where can I read more about the theory that the Emprah is really an Old One?
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2012/04/04 01:54:26
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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The Fall was what let the Emperor leave Terra at all. It was surrounded by warp storms until Slaanesh blew them away.
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Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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2012/04/04 02:00:16
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Fixture of Dakka
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Durza wrote:
How so? Humans found to be working with Xenos were given the option to cut ties with them or be exterminated, and even races that didn't attack humans, like the Laer, were only left alone because it would take to long to kill them. Even if the Emperor himself wasn't anti-xenos, his administration certainly was.
Don't believe everything the Abnett-verse tells you.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2012/04/04 02:39:33
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Kabalite Conscript
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The Emperor had two fold goal when he launched his great crusade.
1. Unite the scattered empires of humanity across the galaxy under totalitarian rule (his).
The launching of the Great Crusade and the spread of the "Imperial Truth". The Emperor and the imperium were very xenocidal becuase fundementally they believed no alien could accept that it was humanities destiny to rule the stars. The imperium viewed the human genome as perfect and anything different was imperfect. The Emperor and by extention the Imperium/Humanity at the time of the heresy believed that it was humanities manifest destiny to rule the material universe with the BELIEF in the imperial truth. This "Truth" was based out of ignorance. How can one know truth when one doesnt know what reality is? The imperial truth while based on ignorance of the immaterium was the truth in the matterium. The emperor was in effect trying to alter reality itself through belief. The Emperor knew the nature of the chaos gods. He had enough forsight to realize that the chaos was to be the bane of humanity. It could never be defeated in the matterium. With this knowledge the emperor knew that he would have to conquer the immaterium as well for humanity to survive.
2. Conquer the Webway to emilinate the need for Psykers and Astrotelepathy.
This was the goal that the emperor wished to keep secret from those closest to him. The more people that knew about what he was truely intending the more potential for disaster it could lead to. With the chaos gods starved of worship as they knew it the Emperor gambled that he had enough of the galaxy pacified to begin the conquest of the immaterial universe.
This is where the Primarchs potential could come into play. The primarchs were the only successful union of the Material and Immaterial universe. They were created with the purpose of being conquerers in both realities. With them the Emperor would be unstoppable and the chaos gods knew this. This was why chaos needed to appeal to the one part of the primarchs that gave them their power: Their humanity. The chaos gods cannot exist without humanity they are so heavily invested in us that if the human race were ever to fall they would go with us.
I believe the Emperor knew that chaos could never be destroyed. I think he took the gamble that if humanity could conquer the galaxy and the webway the more positive aspects of the chaos gods would be ascendent as opposed to the ones that would destroy humanity. The only way to achieve this was to unite humanity under one rule, eliminate the reliance on psykers and the warp and replace chaos with stability that was more pro "humanity"....Matial honor, The will to survive, the quest for knowledge ect ect..... All this could have been achieved with the heresy averted.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/04 02:44:46
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2012/04/04 04:57:30
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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DarknessEternal wrote:Durza wrote:
How so? Humans found to be working with Xenos were given the option to cut ties with them or be exterminated, and even races that didn't attack humans, like the Laer, were only left alone because it would take to long to kill them. Even if the Emperor himself wasn't anti-xenos, his administration certainly was.
Don't believe everything the Abnett-verse tells you.
I'm curious as to where you get your information then. If we are not to listen to the Authors of the Black Library, then where should we get any information found outside GW published material?
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2012/04/04 06:43:46
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ignatius wrote:DarknessEternal wrote:Durza wrote:
How so? Humans found to be working with Xenos were given the option to cut ties with them or be exterminated, and even races that didn't attack humans, like the Laer, were only left alone because it would take to long to kill them. Even if the Emperor himself wasn't anti-xenos, his administration certainly was.
Don't believe everything the Abnett-verse tells you.
I'm curious as to where you get your information then. If we are not to listen to the Authors of the Black Library, then where should we get any information found outside GW published material?
This is kind of the primary problematic of "arguing canon" with any of GW material. We've gone through like 5 revisions of Warhammer with great variances occurring depending on which designer is in the driver's seat.
Don't believe - well does Spiritual Liege ring a bell? Good. Moving along..
This is further complicated by the BL novels - esp. when they run counter to GW's only established material. Some characters in Abnett's books for instance take the place of established characters in the codexes. How does BL resolve the conflict? Simply put - "Its another Multiverse.
The "Warhammer 40k has many multiverses" is the great big get out of jail free card for the BL writers. It allows them to create interesting stories set in the 40K universe without lugging around a giant codex meant to crossreference every detail in the fluff.
This is further enhanced by the overall tenuous nature of the accounts written.
ex: Ciaphas Cain's memoirs for instance are his own rendition of how events went down in his life - with a bit of hyperbole - further edited by the Inquisitor who was not only his accomplice in many of these ventures but an old lover to boot. Does anyone here think then that we're getting an unbiased account? of course not.
the same can be said with the HH novels. This is especially true regarding the glimpses of the Emperor. We never get an unmediated account of him, rather only the impressions that others have of him.
So when one of the Primarchs or his subordinates in one of the Traitor Legions (but prior to his fall) says that the Emperor is a big SOB - do we believe him? Would that statement be different if it were coming from Rogal Dorn, Robert Guillaume, Leman Russ or one of their loyal subordinates?
everybody sees the Emperor differently - and we only have access to their perceptions and thoughts of the person, not an unbiased viewpoint.
In truth, we are not meant to have access to an unbiased view of the Emperor - that would kill the mystery and torpedo fan speculation.
ie: Its not in GW's interests to give any definitive answers on the subject.
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2012/04/04 10:20:36
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Enron wrote:
I believe the Emperor knew that chaos could never be destroyed. I think he took the gamble that if humanity could conquer the galaxy and the webway the more positive aspects of the chaos gods would be ascendent as opposed to the ones that would destroy humanity. The only way to achieve this was to unite humanity under one rule, eliminate the reliance on psykers and the warp and replace chaos with stability that was more pro "humanity"....Matial honor, The will to survive, the quest for knowledge ect ect..... All this could have been achieved with the heresy averted.
I like the idea...in effect, the Emperor was not only trying to stabilze the warp, He was also trying to purify the Chaos Powers...maybe so when Mankind was completing it's evolution into psykers, Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle would be like the old Eldar Gods, less malevolent and more benign with regards to Mankind. Only then would the Emperor allow them to be worshipped/revered.
Not Slaanesh, though.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/04/04 15:47:11
Subject: Heresy Averted
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ignatius wrote:
I'm curious as to where you get your information then. If we are not to listen to the Authors of the Black Library, then where should we get any information found outside GW published material?
GW maintains that the universe presented by the Black Library is not canon. You can only get information about the real 40k universe from 40k products. Automatically Appended Next Post: Enron wrote:The Emperor and the imperium were very xenocidal
The Imperium is, the Emperor wasn't. He was willing to accept submission from xenos to Humanity. None ever did, but he was willing to accept it.
Submission though, not equality, not even tolerance.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/04 15:48:15
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2012/04/04 16:41:23
Subject: Re:Heresy Averted
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
somewhere in the northern side of the beachball
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Tadashi wrote:1) The Webway is under complete Imperial control
2) All Humans are psykers
3) Space Marines are as good as Custodians
4) Custodians are unimaginably good
5) Chaos Powers are destroyed and the warp is partially stable
6) All Eldar are extinct
7) The Orks are contained
8) Human technology is unmaginably advanced and composed of improved and innovated Golden Age of Technology tech, Eldar, and Ork tech
9) Necrons are contained
10) Tyranids are constantly repelled
How this happens:
1) The Emperor let all the Primarchs in on His plan from the beginning
2) Horus gets a seat on the Council of Terra
3) The Emperor/Horus reconciles Dorn and Perturabo, not to mention the other troubled Primarchs
4) Magnus helps the Emperor with the Webway and never made a pact with Tzeentch from the beginning
5) The Black Library is captured, and Commoragh destroyed
6) All Craftworlds are destroyed and the Eldar's technology studied and reverse-enginneered then adapted for Human use; same technology used to safely accelerate Human psychic evolution
7) Ork DNA is taken apart to learn superior shield and teleporter technology
8) An STC is recovered, which allows access to all Golden Age of Technology achievements
Nope.
Blackfang almost killed horus, dorn and mortarion (all of their forces were pretty much wiped out) and only E's intervention saved them.
Orks would be a bigger menace than they are now. IoM has only been able to contain one (normal) ork in it's entire history.
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Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. |
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By the time they scream... It's too late. 
