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I mean we have a blood angels codex,a DA and SW one why not give some for us Dorn guys?

White scars could pretty use one too with unique biker units. As for rules on the Dorn chapters (CF and IF and other secondary chapters), they could have power fists and not have the initiative penalty or something like that,a fists cannon perhaps too? lol

Well just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys about this.

And a Black Templars one.

IIRC Dorn's marines work in a manner way too similiar to the codex astartes toactually warrant their own codex.

Do we really need more marine codexes?

Or another codex to fall be the wayside and not get updated for several editions (Dark Angels/Black Templars.)

They could do with a seperate set of rules within their own codex at the minute though. Just a few little bonuses if you ran that particular chapter.

Nom

No, they operate the same of Codex chapters.

As has been said above; The Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists/Other successors work too closely to the Codex to really warrant their own. Any deviations and differences don't really have a noticable in-game effect.

The only exception would be Black Templars, and they already have a seperate codex.

No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels have had their own book since 2nd Edition, so there was nothing new with continuing the trend. Black Templars were the newest Marine army to take that split.

I wouldn't mind if they got a special unit for taking their SC or something, but as a codex? Not really.

djones520 wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels have had their own book since 2nd Edition, so there was nothing new with continuing the trend. Black Templars were the newest Marine army to take that split.

Yeah, catachan also had their own list. Doesn't mean they deserved it.
Hell I'm old enough to remember when BA were the "generic" space marine chapter. Then UM came along...

Joey wrote:

djones520 wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels have had their own book since 2nd Edition, so there was nothing new with continuing the trend. Black Templars were the newest Marine army to take that split.

Yeah, catachan also had their own list. Doesn't mean they deserved it.
Hell I'm old enough to remember when BA were the "generic" space marine chapter. Then UM came along...

When was BA the generic space marine chapter?

It was originally Crimson Fists, than vanilla marines, than Codex: Ultramarines.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Joey wrote:

djones520 wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels have had their own book since 2nd Edition, so there was nothing new with continuing the trend. Black Templars were the newest Marine army to take that split.

Yeah, catachan also had their own list. Doesn't mean they deserved it.
Hell I'm old enough to remember when BA were the "generic" space marine chapter. Then UM came along...

When was BA the generic space marine chapter?

2nd Edition 40k.

'twas the first edition I played ( though was about 8 at the time so didn't really understand it)

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
When was BA the generic space marine chapter?

It was originally Crimson Fists, than vanilla marines, than Codex: Ultramarines.

2nd edition had Blood Angels on the cover of the box and Codex: Angels of Death came out slightly before Codex: Ultramarines, which covered all the regular Marine armies. Crimson Fists were on the cover for RT and third edition, but their army didn't take precedence in either book. Fourth and fifth have Ultramarines on the cover, and while they got more special units in the last book their fluff presence is way stronger in the current codex.

Imperial Fists adhere closer to the Codex Astartes than anyone save the Ultramarines. Crimson Fists have fewer resources and more veterans, which is reflected with Pedro's rules that make Sternguard scoring. As someone who plays Crimson Fists, I can say there is no need whatsoever for their own codex. Black Templars are significantly different and can get a new one, but no other Marine variant chapters need to be made.

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

I'm not really sure what the problem is with the five books we have.
Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels and Vanilla all offer their own distinct abilities and justify the amount of marine kits we have at the moment.

I'd also agree with Brother SRM saying that all possible marine variants are covered, so there shouldn't be a need for more Marine books.

I definitely think GW need to think about giving the enemies of the Space Marines a more diverse selection. A lost and the damned book re-write wouldn't go amiss as a place to start.

Medium of Death wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

Spoiler:

I'm not really sure what the problem is with the five books we have.
Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels and Vanilla all offer their own distinct abilities and justify the amount of marine kits we have at the moment.

I'd also agree with Brother SRM saying that all possible marine variants are covered, so there shouldn't be a need for more Marine books.

I definitely think GW need to think about giving the enemies of the Space Marines a more diverse selection. A lost and the damned book re-write wouldn't go amiss as a place to start.

I'd love to see Tau: Outcasts as an external codex for Commander Farsight and his army.

Nah, too many codexes. Way too many codexes. I just want the tau codex to be good as it is.

Anghor prok would be a great character to bring back lol XD

Nom

I don't think GW would really do one of the "established" chapters.

If they ever do a "new" Marine Codex (not saying they should, just if), I would expect them to take a route similar to the Black Templars, but multiplied by 5th (or 6th) edition levels of "differentiation". I.e. they'd likely create a totally new chapter, or pick one where there is literally nothing in the current fluff than perhaps the chapter's name. With that, they could go off on a wild tangent to make something thoroughly different without creating too many backwards problems or aggrevating some fans of established material.

Many concepts deserve to have codices, but GW only has so much resources. On one hand yes, they deserve a codex, on the other hand it'd admittedly be at the expense of something far more interesting than another SM codex... which mean no they shouldn't have one.

GW's rewritten fluff plenty of times, so the whole "they're too much like standard SM" is kinda moot... because if GW sat down and rewrote Imperial Fists to represent the least scathed loyalist chapter or something and give them a defenders unit of power armored marines with storm shields, or a unit of marine jetbikes, a deoderant stick shaped hovertank, and a Saber variant of the vindicator that'd be enough unique things... they might be then be justifiably distinctive enough.

That said, it'd still be at the expense of something more distinctive and interesting. 50% of the game is marine codices and more the sake of variety I'd say no additional loyalist chapters deserve a separate codex.

Tell you what could work, but won't happen, is an Imperial Armour style book, or even a Chapter Approved article, that was official, and included perhaps one or two new units and/or modifications to the FOC for each original legion chapter and it's successors that allow a little bit more flavour to the list.

For instance, my personal favorites, Raven Guard
Assault marines count as troops choices, plus a new veteran unit with Scout/Infiltrate.

BOOM! Two small changes, I can now construct a fluffy and legal list.

I know this is kind of what the SCs in C:SM already do, but I resent needing to buy that character in order for the rest of my army to function how it should anyway (and, in fact, don't, but that's not relevant to this discussion!)

azreal13 wrote:Tell you what could work, but won't happen, is an Imperial Armour style book, or even a Chapter Approved article, that was official, and included perhaps one or two new units and/or modifications to the FOC for each original legion chapter and it's successors that allow a little bit more flavour to the list.

For instance, my personal favorites, Raven Guard
Assault marines count as troops choices, plus a new veteran unit with Scout/Infiltrate.

BOOM! Two small changes, I can now construct a fluffy and legal list.

I know this is kind of what the SCs in C:SM already do, but I resent needing to buy that character in order for the rest of my army to function how it should anyway (and, in fact, don't, but that's not relevant to this discussion!)

Take a look at IA7, I play Ravenguard 2 and use Shadow Captain Korvydae, he makes assault squads troops.

azreal13 wrote:Tell you what could work, but won't happen, is an Imperial Armour style book, or even a Chapter Approved article, that was official, and included perhaps one or two new units and/or modifications to the FOC for each original legion chapter and it's successors that allow a little bit more flavour to the list.

For instance, my personal favorites, Raven Guard
Assault marines count as troops choices, plus a new veteran unit with Scout/Infiltrate.

BOOM! Two small changes, I can now construct a fluffy and legal list.

I know this is kind of what the SCs in C:SM already do, but I resent needing to buy that character in order for the rest of my army to function how it should anyway (and, in fact, don't, but that's not relevant to this discussion!)

The majority of Imperial Armor books feature different Space Marine Chapters. Red Scorpions, Astral Claws, Raven Guard (I think in IA7 &8), the Shark People, and I think a few others. I know Siege of Vrakks has at least one Chapter in there.

jgehunter wrote:

azreal13 wrote:Tell you what could work, but won't happen, is an Imperial Armour style book, or even a Chapter Approved article, that was official, and included perhaps one or two new units and/or modifications to the FOC for each original legion chapter and it's successors that allow a little bit more flavour to the list.

For instance, my personal favorites, Raven Guard
Assault marines count as troops choices, plus a new veteran unit with Scout/Infiltrate.

BOOM! Two small changes, I can now construct a fluffy and legal list.

I know this is kind of what the SCs in C:SM already do, but I resent needing to buy that character in order for the rest of my army to function how it should anyway (and, in fact, don't, but that's not relevant to this discussion!)

Take a look at IA7, I play Ravenguard 2 and use Shadow Captain Korvydae, he makes assault squads troops.

So does the Blood Angel Codex.

Seriously, try it out. Ignore Sanguinary Priests, or, in fact, pretty much anything with Sanguinary or Blood in its name, and it works really well for the RG.

Dante's rules could easily represent the RG chapter master with a bit of fluff tweaking
All vehicles fast? Fits
Assault Squads as troops? Fits
Furioso Dreads, using giant lightning claws? They fit too
One of the only codexes with the Storm Raven? Fits

I don't allow myself Priests, Guard or any heavy armour (LRs or Preds) as they are documented as not favoring them (ok, have caved and got one LR Redeemer, as I'm fond of the old girl, down to nostalgia dating back to 2nd, but once it's built and painted, will only deploy it "via Thunderhawk")

With opponents permission, I normally skip the Black Rage roll, which they're normally ok with, as it could hurt them as much as it might hurt me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KplKeegan wrote:

The majority of Imperial Armor books feature different Space Marine Chapters. Red Scorpions, Astral Claws, Raven Guard (I think in IA7 &8), the Shark People, and I think a few others. I know Siege of Vrakks has at least one Chapter in there.

Totally understand that, but they stll occupy a grey area, I'm talking about a bona fide Codex style official release.

Never happen though....

nomsheep wrote:Nah, too many codexes. Way too many codexes. I just want the tau codex to be good as it is.

Agreed! Until all of the current batch of codexes have a current edition update, we shouldn't even think of new codexes.

That being said, if GW was to update all codexes in a single edition (so no one has a 4th, etc codex), then I would be cool about expanding into new races.

I was also thinking of playing Raven Guard with BA, just like you said, I'd just not take Priests and heavy armor, and I thought the black rage could be explained as something to do with the failed experiments that Corax performed.

Yep, as could Death Company if you fancied fielding it. I quite like the idea of fielding them in pure white armour, perhaps with some sort of blue insignia, but I have about 2000 points of unassembled and unpainted marines to work through first!

In danger of going OT here though, if you want to know more about it, PM me, or I posted most of my list back along if you want to have a look, just search my posts..

no, actually, none of the SM chapters deserve their own. I'll revise that opinion when the major Orks clans and Eldar craftworlds get equal treatment and all races have a decent updated codex.

wolf13 wrote:no, actually, none of the SM chapters deserve their own. I'll revise that opinion when the major Orks clans and Eldar craftworlds get equal treatment and all races have a decent updated codex.

The IoM has always been the main presence in 40k. It is moreso than ever now, though (SM, SW, BA, GK, SoB, IG.. Pretty sure I've forgotten at least 1 or 2). My main disappointment with it is that almost all of the books are written soley from an Imperial perspective. Rogue Trader had a lot more Xenos perspectives mixed in. Currently there's nothing that really steps outside of the IoM "Yay Man! Boo everything else!" mindset.

I think GW should really work on getting the other Codices right before they throw more SMs out there. Make a really kick-ass Eldar Codex, Tau Codex, Chaos Codex, etc.

Medium of Death wrote:

Joey wrote:No.
BA didn't deserve their own codex, neither did SW really, or BT.
Should have left it at Dark Angels.

I'm not really sure what the problem is with the five books we have.

You're not sure why there's a problem...with 5 themes on the same codex?
Furthermore, I am trolling for saying this is OTT?
Okay then give guard a Catachan codex, Cadian codex, Mordian, Tallern and Valhalla.
Hell why not give every codex 5 variations.
Don't get me wrong, I like marines. But 5 army books is too many.

The codex releases are largely a function of what people buy and want to play. People like SM, so GW makes lots of SM.

pretre wrote:The codex releases are largely a function of what people buy and want to play. People like SM, so GW makes lots of SM.

People like heroin, maybe they should sell that too.

Joey wrote:

pretre wrote:The codex releases are largely a function of what people buy and want to play. People like SM, so GW makes lots of SM.

People like heroin, maybe they should sell that too.

You keep on, keeping on, Joey.

For the rest of us, who aren't making absurd statements...

No. Don't need one, all marine chapters should be combined into one codex called: Codex Space Marines.