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Original Post:

My current Lore idea for my Squat Army:

~The Dawi of the Kraka System~
Shorty before the Purge of the Squat race by the mighty Tyranids, a Council was formed of the most ancient and powerful Living Ancestors, eleven in all, gathered together and discussed an event they had all foreseen. The Purge of the Squats. Going to their Lords, they beseeched them to listen, and their pleas were duly noted and then forgotten about, for it was the Festival of the Golden Keg a time of celebration and ale, not dire warnings and prophecy. Faced with the destruction of their race and culture, the Ancestors gathered the most ancient and powerful artifacts of their race, along with their Brotherhoods, and any Squats that would listen. Gathering the heart of their race into eleven great ships, and setting out for Imperial Space.

Unfortunately for their race, the Fleet was intercepted by the Vanguard of the Tyranid Invasion, and five of the great ships were obliterated in an instant, killing thousands of Squats, and destroying millions of years of culture and history. As the surviving ships broke into Imperial held Space, the remaining Living Ancestors sent a plea to Segmentum Command, asking for aid in fighting off the Tyranid invasion, but were cruelly denied by the xenophobic Commander. Watching in horror as the Homeworlds were ravaged and destroyed, the small fleet landed on nearby Mars, a relatively safe and familiar place to many Squats due to their extensive relationship with the Mechanicus.

Using their connections within the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Squats worked for many years to gain an audience with the High-Lords of Terra, eventually trading several relatively minor STCs that the Squats had held for an age so they could finally have their say. Once before the High-Lords the Living Ancestors spoke of the betrayal of the Segmentum Command, the long and dedicated service of the Squats to the Imperium, and the great benefits the Squats had provided. Offering up one of their final bargaining chips, a STC for a mining machine that would mine ores almost as well as a Squat could, while still far better then any current human or device. The Ancestors begged to be granted a few ore-rich planets and have the current Squat Regiments of the Imperial Guard to be recalled, and be allowed to resettle their race. The High-Lords accepted their plea to a certain extent. In exchange for the STC, and in repayment for the Squats loyal service to the Imperium, they would be granted a small System of ore-rich Planets located in the far reaches of Ultima Segmentum, but the current Squat Regiments were to stay in active duty. The Ancestors, realizing that the Imperium was being vastly generous to a race that they could destroy on a whim, accepted the offer gratefully.

Settling down in the mining system of Kraka Secondus, the Squats initiated massive reforms in their culture, government, and military. Focusing the bulk of their remaining race to slowly rebuilding their race, while the military was culled and centralized into elite groups of soldiers, with advanced technology and equipment, that preformed missions at the behest of the Living Ancestors, often helping the Squats or Imperium achieve some goal or item from the Xenos and Chaos forces.

The final, and some say the most psychologically important, change was to "rename" the Squats, adopting the old Homeworld language's word for Squats....The Dawi~

[NOTE:] This is not a place to proclaim the awful (old GW) fluff and/or silliness of Squats, so try not to rage~

heh ugh squats so Op just ugh


Now something helpful. I do not know if any homeworlds survied, it is unlikely, but they should be some still roaming around . Units already made, or people living off world. You could go a few ways here.

1: A normal army containing some "Homeless" squat units.
2: A very small army made up of homeless squats;
3: A whole regiment made up of squat regiments that have fallen low in numbers and have been "Combined"

I would go with number 3, it gives a cool backstory and allows you a lot of leway in both type of unit and looks as they used to be many regiments but now have been moved around and broken up and used to restock an older regiment.

Edit:

On the tech, I would go normal Guardmen tech, however if you go with type 3 listed above, it would allow other options of gear you "inherited" along with the fresh troops.

Hey there, I'm doing a 'Dwarf in Space' army so I thought I would offer some thoughts!

First of all, I think it's important to have a think about how you conceptualise the army. The only thing we really have to go off as far as 40k is concerned are the Squat range, a now rather aged (both in model line and concept) of what 'Dwarves in Space' actually are. If you look at how the 6mm Epic line developed, I think you have more of a cohesive vision of the DiS (Dwarf in Space). Very high technology base, combined with the standard fantasy dwarf trope - So, long lived, stern miners and engineers, with a rich tradition who don't forget slights against them easily!

Regarding your comments on the background, I think the general consensus (there is a massive thread on Warseer regarding this subject) is that there is room for manoeuvre. The 40k galaxy is a big place. Undoubtedly, some squats would have survived, both those away from the homeworld and those that fled. It is irrational to suppose that every single squat was consumed by the Nid invasion, and essentially that was just a justification and fan service for them not featuring in the current 40k model range. There are also the 'Demiurg' which, other than BFG miniatures, some quite old concept sketches and the odd mention in a BL book are generally a wide open space for you to fill with an army concept,. But also, bear in mind that you do not necessarily have to anchor yourself to the current 40k time-line. The FW 'Badab War' books focus on events thousands of years before the current time line. Pre-Heresy gaming has never been more popular - there is a huge gap there for both a squat army to exist, as well as any other alien/human race offshoot that the Great Crusade expeditions might have encountered. The current Ork codex writes that Ghazkull invaded the Homeworlds of 'Golgotha' (point of origin of the Squats) relatively recently, so you have a large area of time to play with.

I think once you have a clear concept in mind in terms of how and where the DiS exist, then you can go from there. For my own army I am creating an empire encountered by the Great Crusade prior to the Horus Heresy. They are known as the 'Somek Confederacy'. They are dwarf like in size and stature, and fit the basic Dwarf fantasy tropes I mentioned above. They have a very high technology base, at the very least comparable to the Imperium. Not that in the background Squats had a higher level of technology in some areas. The Imperium tried to replicate their plasma field technology which apparently resulted in a destroyed planet and an entire region of space becoming uninhabitable! These do not follow the now quite out of place squat concept of dirty, beer-guzzling bikers wearing flak armour. So, for models I am using Mantic's 'Forge Father' line of models, which I think are probably closest to what GW Squats would be had the concept been updated, and also have the bonus of being very cheap! Here are a couple of models below:





And some unpainted minis:




For rules, looking at the rules for Mantic Forge Fathers for Warpath, it is almost perfectly lined up with Codex: Space Marines. You can use the old 'Exo-armour' squats as Terminators, the ForgeFather Hellstorm Canon as a Whirlwind, and the forthcoming Iron Ancestor is a Dreadnought. The 'tactical marines', or basic dwarf troopers, deploy from the tunnelling machine pictured below ('counts as' drop pod)



I think the stat line of a marine is probably the closest you will get to the concept I have set out: Guardsmen even in carapace armour are nothing like tough or brave enough, and Orks with BS2 is no good. For friendly games, I plan on changing the stat line to +1 LD (perhaps with 'stubborn' special rule) and -2 Initiative. We might also reduce Str. to 3 along with a small point discount.

However, if you wanted to follow the more traditional 'Squat' 1st edition 40k concept, I would probably recommend Codex: Grey Knights. You can use Inquisitor Corteaz (a 'living ancestor' who even has a hammer!) to allow you to take henchmen as a troops choice, 'Crusaders' as hearth guard and 'Servitors' as Thunderers. There are a number of other parallels you can make.

Hope this helps! There are lots of different ways of doing things (of which my way is only one) but I would definitely be interested to see what kind of concept you can come up with.

Alright, I think I'm going to do kind of combination of you two's suggestions. I'm thinking shortly before the attack by the Nids, perhaps some of the Living Ancestor's had a meeting, bringing some of the more venerated Squat artifacts and relics along with much of their history, and a full brotherhood/clan and a unit of Hearth Guard as a security detail. Realizing that the Homeworlds were to be lost, they fled, taking the soldiers, relics, and history with them. Upon beseeching the Imperium for help, the Imperium would of course deny help, and send the Ancestors to some backwash planet with warnings not to get to active if they want to stay alive. The Ancestors and their guard details would then settle the world, and attempt to reform the Squats, changing there name to the "Dawi" and forming an elite army, that carries out the world of the surviving Ancestors.

Most likely I'll use the GK Codex to deal with their advanced tech, few numbers, and their elite training. In order to keep them from becoming a joke, they will be almost exactly WFB in space, and while that will keep them serious, it will also be kinda silly in it's own right~

The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

A far flung homeworld is very unfluffy, due to the fact that the Squat homeworlds were very close together as they formed before long distance warp travel was available again. Although it is more than likely that some squats survived as the IoM is very large, but it is more likely that those that survived are of more value to the IoM as craftsmen and engineers than soldiers.

So some options present themselves:
1. Use them as ab-humans, non-squats but with a similar background.
2. Set your army as a pre-genocide force
3. Have an IG army with squat advisor minitures.

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

Squat Imperial Guard regiments were retconned, and GW's staff have been very explicit that all were killed.

Demiurg are the answer. But remember that Demiurg are not Squats, they are an entirely separate race with their own background and none of the silly hairy biker nonsense.

Can I suggest a related but slightly different path for
a "squat" counts as army- Space Wolves?

Looking at the old Squat Army list

Wolf Lord - Warlord
Wolf Guard - Hearthguard
Grey Hunters - Squat Combat Squad
Long Fangs - Brotherhood Weapon Team
Iron Priest - Guild Master
Swiftclaw Biker Pack - Guild Bike Squad
Rune Priest - Living Ancestor

Kanluwen wrote:

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

Squat Imperial Guard regiments were retconned, and GW's staff have been very explicit that all were killed.

Demiurg are the answer. But remember that Demiurg are not Squats, they are an entirely separate race with their own background and none of the silly hairy biker nonsense.

There have only ever been 2 comments officially from GW about squats:
- A condescending reply to a letter in WD answering a customer query about them. I paraphrase, "they were an awful army, just buy something else"
- Jervis Johnson's letter, which went some way towards fan appeasement and at least spelled out why they had to go.

But, there has never been explicit mention of every single one of them being destroyed. And indeed, on a galactic scale (assuming that the Tyranids didn't put a 'free beer' sign above Golgotha 1 month prior to the invasion) it would be ludicrous to imagine that they had been made completely extinct. Indeed, in the letter that JJ wrote he encouraged the use of the models as stand-ins for Imperial Guard etc.

In any case, you can always just pull out the 'but a wizard did it' card. In this case, simply creating a Squat force based just before the Tryanid Hive Mind closed in on them. GW may be strong, but they cannot defeat time travel

Although I agree that the original concept was poorly thought out by modern standards, it wasn't for the time, and indeed nestled nicely in amongst the other Rogue Trader concepts for different races. However, in the same way that any other background/models fair poorly when measured with the modern yardstick, so to have the squats. I agree, the Squat concept is horribly outdated, but I'm sure the Demiurg (should they ever be taken any futher) will be quite different. Reading the background for the Mantic Forge Fathers, if you swapped a few of the names around I think it is exactly as you would imagine a new version of 'Dwarfs in Space' in 40k to be.

Personally, the original Squat concept would not be my cup of tea (and I think they would sit awkwardly amongst the rather more po-faced imagining of the universe these days), but I would never try and talk someone out of attempting such a project. In fact I would love to play a game and for someone to put down that kind of army opposite me!

BluntmanDC wrote:A far flung homeworld is very unfluffy, due to the fact that the Squat homeworlds were very close together as they formed before long distance warp travel was available again. Although it is more than likely that some squats survived as the IoM is very large, but it is more likely that those that survived are of more value to the IoM as craftsmen and engineers than soldiers.

So some options present themselves:
1. Use them as ab-humans, non-squats but with a similar background.
2. Set your army as a pre-genocide force
3. Have an IG army with squat advisor minitures.

I've thought about having them be a different breed of ab-humans, but I find the Squats background has/had a lot of potential, and would rather work with that. As for having a pre-genocide Squats army, that would mean using the Squats in the same silly biker way they were, and I would rather use their potential for what they would be like if GW kept them around~

Kanluwen wrote:

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

Squat Imperial Guard regiments were retconned, and GW's staff have been very explicit that all were killed.

Demiurg are the answer. But remember that Demiurg are not Squats, they are an entirely separate race with their own background and none of the silly hairy biker nonsense.

Exactly, Demiurg are not Squats. The reason I'm choosing to try Squats instead of Demiurg is because I don't want to field Demiurg, I want to field Squats. I see no reason why the lore can't be bent, or re-imagined in places, like in the possible lore I posted above.

Mr Morden wrote:Can I suggest a related but slightly different path for
a "squat" counts as army- Space Wolves?

Looking at the old Squat Army list

Wolf Lord - Warlord
Wolf Guard - Hearthguard
Grey Hunters - Squat Combat Squad
Long Fangs - Brotherhood Weapon Team
Iron Priest - Guild Master
Swiftclaw Biker Pack - Guild Bike Squad
Rune Priest - Living Ancestor

In fact, Space Wolves were my first thought, seeing as their old statlines were, in fact, very similar. But, after giving the matter some though, I figured that any surviving Squats would be very small in number, and extremely elite. I also figured the Space Wolves would, of course, play alot like Space Marines in general, and as I play Salamanders I wanted to go for something different~

Well, other than the whole "Squats being dead" issue there's no reason the lore can't be bent...

Well I doubt the Chaos Squats came back to help their brothers so I guess they are still around, eh Kan?

Howard A Treesong wrote:Well I doubt the Chaos Squats came back to help their brothers so I guess they are still around, eh Kan?

I feel like Chaos Squats must be the butlers and servants of the Chaos community~

Howard A Treesong wrote:Well I doubt the Chaos Squats came back to help their brothers so I guess they are still around, eh Kan?

Pft.

Everyone knows the Chaos Squats were destroyed by the Chaos Toilets revolting.

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

No, its not imposable. Unlikely yes but far from impossible . Guard units get decimated all the time, many are "New" units with the name of an older unit. And from what little I recall they were not a far flung race. Its all really in what "year" you set your unit in.

Hunterindarkness wrote:

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

Well, it's slightly impossible for every Squat in the universe to have died. Their were active Squat Imperial Guard regiments, and there's a fairly high chance their were other Squat colonized worlds.

No, its not impossible. Unlikely yes but far from impossible. Guard units get decimated all the time, many are "New" units with the name of an older unit. And from what little I recall they were not a far flung race. Its all really in what "year" you set your unit in.

Yes, very true. Bad wording on my part. I'll be posting a finalized concept for my Squats/Dawi shortly.

Added an updated concept of what the surviving Squats might be like. I would also like to point out that Lexicanum states some Homeworlds did indeed survive, so if you guys find the lore I can up with to implausible, I'll just make up a Homeworld that survived~

Kan, I hope you realise that you are coming across as rude and condescending here.

Wondering if I should move this into P&M blogs and start on the army. Dakka's thoughts?

Kanluwen wrote:The race effectively known as "Squats" are dead. None survived. They fought to the end, and got eaten for their troubles.

If you really want "Dwarfs in Space", look into the Demiurg. They are Squats 2.0, an effective overhaul of the concept.

You can ask people to accept the impossible but not the improbable.

If he wants to do a squat army, let him do a squat army. There are assuredly some squats that survived the attack and that is entirely probable. All you've done this entire thread is be abrasive and every single post of yours in this thread is repeating the same thing over and over again. It'd probably be better if you took a break from this thread.

@ The OP, the Forgefathers are awesome and would make for an awesome squat army. Honestly, I maybe even recommend the Spacewolves codex since they have a lot of firepower potential. That's just me though.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

Play pre-heresy Squats

Everyone seems to be going googly-eyed over pre-heresy (fill in your chapter here) so there's nothing stopping you from enjoying some Squats circa 30.000...

I would do SW (but for Grungir's sake no TWC, make them squat trikers ) or maybe regular SM or guard.

I've thought about doing one based on Orks before, with a Land Train built from several BW's (seperatable to use as BW as needed) or one based on Marines, with LR land trains..

The Chibihawk could be reimagined if you went BA, as a Squat Gyrocopter, as could the IG Valkyrie..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dawi-Marine'Va wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Well I doubt the Chaos Squats came back to help their brothers so I guess they are still around, eh Kan?

I feel like Chaos Squats must be the butlers and servants of the Chaos community~

Remember that the Chaos Squats build the Necrons too