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Hey everyone this is my first post on dakka. And like the subject says I am venting and wanted to know what you guys do in ur gaming community about this. I played a game a few days ago with my ba against a guy at my local game store and I lost but that isn't why im venting. At the bringing of the game he asked if he could proxy a few models for his de list and I have no problem with that but....... he proxyed 90%of the models with flying bases for venoms and jet bike for raiders and there was 9over all. So shame on me I should of said wtf then and said no but I said whatever but I didn't. But I guess what im agrivated about is the fact he hid everything behind very lil cover and bitched about cover saves bc you couldn't see the base. Well I just wanted to know what you guys do about this kind of non sense in ur community? Sorry for any misspelling im on my phone.

Replace you marines with pennies so he can't see them coming and you always get cover saves.

Don't play him. If someone wants to proxy to try out new things I'm fine with it, but at least try to get them close to what they represent.

Yeah I don't think I ever will again

Yes.... the ultimate camophlage in 40k is the dreaded water battle tank camo, or the Coin Camo for infantry. its so good the enemy doesn't realize the troops are there until they are blown to bits with the line of "Oh yeah this bottle is a fully upgraded (insert tank/Land Raider/armored unit) and say good by to your (insert inportant unit[s])"

I myself have a limit to proxies. when i can't tell what it is off hand ill have a problem. i actully had the scenario of a guy using a ham sandwich for a chaos land raider..... its cliche yes but it happened.

If proxies consist of actual units with physical dimensions akin to what they represent then im perfectly fine.
ex: i lent a tank i built (an M3 Lee tank converted to a malcador) to my oppenent who played space marines for a Land raider, said M3 Lee is approxamatly the same length and width of a Land Raider (give or take a few milimeters). As well as a IG player trying out Chaos Marines used his IG troopers as marines with the simple concept of lasgun = bolter, plasma gun = plasma gun and so on.


if someone is totally new, doesn't have an army, etc. and wants to proxy. let there be no pennies or other random objects against my forces! heck ill give him a chunk of my army to test with in a 500 point game.

For me it goes like this.
Prxy to a limit.
If 5 dops pods are to much i understand. If you lack a single model, fine. if you use a dread for a crisis suit, fine. But try to use logic other then "I dont want to have to pay for all this, Know shoot at my empty bases"
If you think this hobby is to expensive, then dont do it. Part of the fun for alot of people is two painted armies going at it. Its an evolved version of Green Army men we played.

There's proxying, there's being a chintzy bastard, and then there's this. I wouldn't play against him until he had real models, or at least an army consisting of 75% real models.

i agree SRM i proxy my terminators as terminators with different loadouts buit never anything this bad

I 100% agree with you guys it was very irritating to say the least and every flipping turn I swear the stuff changed lol he called the game on the fourth turn when I finally got something into CC but you live and you learn I suppose


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I 100% agree with you guys it was very irritating to say the least and every flipping turn I swear the stuff changed lol he called the game on the fourth turn when I finally got something into CC but you live and you learn I suppose

Brother SRM wrote:There's proxying, there's being a chintzy bastard, and then there's this. I wouldn't play against him until he had real models, or at least an army consisting of 75% real models.

This is why I don't play. I don't ever have any money in my wallet to spend on minis and paints and because I don't want to be that guy using nothing but proxies.

I played a game on Tuesday against a friend who was Just starting Tyranids.

He has a beautiful Mawlock- which is magnetized to be a Trygon or Trygon prime at will, a Tyranid Prime, and 2 or 3 Warriors painted, all to a good standard. Everything else he was proxying (a mix between Eldar models, and bases of the correct size).

I had no problems with this, it was clear that he intended to start the army, and was expirimenting around with what he actually wanted in it. He had just purchased a hive guard and I understand that starting a new army is a big time and money investment, especially an army like Tyrnaids or Dark Eldar (my own new CSM army was quite cheap to start)

So there is nothing inherantly wrong with large amounts of proxy, as long as both parties are willing to assume that the units are the correct height. So you assume that the vehicle on top of the base in its same proportions, If he does have a venom available he should be willing to place it on any flying stand to show what can and can't be seen for a cover save. The actual flying base should have no bearing on cover or not.

as long as your opponent plays fairly, there is nothing wrong with heavy proxy, especially if they have good faith desire to buy the army.

In my world, I don't play against coins, water bottles, and empty bases. It's a bit frustrating to have to ask "what's that again?" over and over again, but at least they're actual modelsI'm asking about. If someone came to me with an army that was mostly junk, I'd offer to play a smaller game, or even a game of Killzone.

Skycrawler wrote:
This is why I don't play. I don't ever have any money in my wallet to spend on minis and paints and because I don't want to be that guy using nothing but proxies.

Just play small games and slowly build up an army!

The only time I really proxy are test games at my house. I don't every proxy outside of playing one friend, and we help each other try out new units before we buy them.

I proxy spore pods for my nids, red solo cups do the trick... albeit they may be a tad large there isnt an official model to base their size off of. I may just start using soda cans instead.

I must agree with what most people already said here. Proxying can be fine in limits, but what your adversary did exceeded those limits by far. The fact that we was trying to get an advantage out of the whole situation only makes it worse. My advice to you: don't play him again unless he changes his proxy army and his attitude.

This is a classic definition of TFG and thus, should be shunned from playing.

Yeah I am new to the wargaming side, but it seems to me he really played one over on you. He used proxies to gain an advantage. I mean I plan to use stand in tanks, but I use all the same type of model for one type of unit and the ones I use are slightly longer. But what this guy did was over and above what I myself would find to be ok

Fire_for_effect wrote:I must agree with what most people already said here. Proxying can be fine in limits, but what your adversary did exceeded those limits by far. The fact that we was trying to get an advantage out of the whole situation only makes it worse. My advice to you: don't play him again unless he changes his proxy army and his attitude.

Well said. The attitude is the real problem here. Lets say he does get a perfectly represented, non-proxied army. Even in this case, it is probably just going to be some other issue or problem.

This is the guy, back when you were six years old and playing "guns", that would never get "hit", or had a forcefield. Or whatever. It is always something. Often, they might be fun people to hang out with otherwise, but put them in anything like a competition and they turn into a git.

I once played a kid who regulars the local shop. He constantly hopped codices to whatever he thought would give him the best advantage, so now he has Necrons, in which all his tanks are chaos rhinos. So every time someone plays him, he messes with the dimensions so they're always in cover or out of sight. Half of his army is unpainted, and the other half are chaos marines. It's technically legal, but it's frustrating when I have to ask over and over which model was which, and he gets offended because I don't know.

moom241 wrote:I once played a kid who regulars the local shop. He constantly hopped codices to whatever he thought would give him the best advantage, so now he has Necrons, in which all his tanks are chaos rhinos. So every time someone plays him, he messes with the dimensions so they're always in cover or out of sight. Half of his army is unpainted, and the other half are chaos marines. It's technically legal, but it's frustrating when I have to ask over and over which model was which, and he gets offended because I don't know.

Why do you play him, then? He sounds like a serious case of TFG WAAC.

Ya know if you are gonna proxy. I would advise that they use all of one type of proxy for one type of thing and having a cheat sheet reference card to hand the other guy would only be fair. We used to do this back when i played battletech.

i actully had the scenario of a guy using a ham sandwich for a chaos land raider.

Don't Chaos Vehicles mutate?

I'm wondering if this was a proxy or just an exceptionally well-done conversion.

I'm cool with most proxies but I will not let you get cover saves due to actual size of models if you are claiming TLOS to a coin or some such thing.

Brother SRM wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:
This is why I don't play. I don't ever have any money in my wallet to spend on minis and paints and because I don't want to be that guy using nothing but proxies.

Just play small games and slowly build up an army!

Perhaps I wasn't entirely truthful, I have two reasons I don't play. The first is I have no money/way of earning money. The second reason is I have no one to play. I suppose I could try to make some cardboard cutouts or something to practice with. hmm... I must look into this.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

moom241 wrote:I once played a kid who regulars the local shop. He constantly hopped codices to whatever he thought would give him the best advantage, so now he has Necrons, in which all his tanks are chaos rhinos. So every time someone plays him, he messes with the dimensions so they're always in cover or out of sight. Half of his army is unpainted, and the other half are chaos marines. It's technically legal, but it's frustrating when I have to ask over and over which model was which, and he gets offended because I don't know.

Why do you play him, then? He sounds like a serious case of TFG WAAC.

I have stopped playing him, but I still see him around, and he's still doing it. I hear he's playing grey knights too.

Dont play him. Thats ridiculous. Im fine with people proxying stuff but at the bare minimum he should have a piece of paper the right size of the vehicle, with a folder piece of paper on top of it so it is the appropriate size.

^
_

like that but where the ^ touches the _

I only proxy for models I want to test out and only on armies that have normal 2k lists.

Like so:

" If it's cool with you I'd like to try out Tetras. I would use my Pirhanas and one of my Khorne Heralds on a Chariot as proxies. I also have the rules on hand if you would like to read through them"

Or

"If it's cool with you, I'd like to test out the Chaos Decimator. I would use my FW Broadside as proxy. I also have the rules on hand if you would like to read through them."

Models that are the size of the Model I want to proxy( or as close as possible) with the rules on hand.

What really bugged me is I once was offered to play a guy that glued a TP tube on his army box and said "This box is my army's fort. They can all be within it and shoot out with no penalties, it has armor 14, 7 void shields, and makes all weapons stronger than S8 down to S8. It's also Immune to melta and this TP tube is a Volcano Cannon. I wrote all the rules down on this Sticky note. I get this plus my full 2k army ."

He was shocked when I told him I wouldn't play a game against that.

Not really related to the topic at hand, just traversing the Memory Webway.

Yeah, as mentioned, proxying is fine, dubious proxying is dubious (though I usually let it slide), but proxying something and then specifically trying to take advantage of the rules by saying that the unit gains attributes of the proxied model is TFG.

The last game of 40k I played, it was a jetbike eldar list, and they had some old jetbikes (on 20mm flying bases), some current jetbikes (40mm bases), and some current DE bikers proxying (that he didn't get with bases, so he put them also on 20mm bases). He then got in an argument when he tried to assault them between two other close combats already going on. The 40mm base ones wouldn't fit through, but the 20mm bases one would.

TFG then goes on a rant about how "confused" he is, given that jetbikes have come on two different base sizes, and that the DE ones that he was proxying came on the small bases, so, using the "base they come on" rule, he should be allowed to assault. In the end, the people gave up and he was allowed to assault (which allowed him to contest an objective), which net him the win. I was on his team, so technically I won as well, but that experience was disgusting enough to make me stop playing 40k for awhile.

I'm bad in social situations, so I don't know how to turn down a game against him (especially in league play), but thankfully he joined the army, so at some point he'll ship out...

What really bugged me is I once was offered to play a guy that glued a TP tube on his army box and said "This box is my army's fort. They can all be within it and shoot out with no penalties, it has armor 14, 7 void shields, and makes all weapons stronger than S8 down to S8. It's also Immune to melta and this TP tube is a Volcano Cannon. I wrote all the rules down on this Sticky note. I get this plus my full 2k army ."

So.. if I manage to get first turn, I'll just deploy my army inside your box since I decide on table side right.....? Autowin!