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I've always been a bit confused about the appearent lack of water-related spells in the BRB lores; sure, there's Iceshard Blizzard, but that's about it. As such, I propose adding the Lore of Water to the BRB Lores:

Lore attribute: Soothing Waves.
The Lore of Water deals with manipulating liquids. Wizards wielding the power of water range from the small but sly Goblin shamans to the mighty Slann Mage-Priests of the Lizardmen. Regardless of who wields it, the Wizard's aquamancy lets him soothe wounded companions and provide moisture to parched mouths. Any spell from the Lore of Water cast on a fleeing allied unit instantly rallies it, in addition to the spell's other effects.

Miremaster (Signature Spell): Cast on a 7+
Manipulating the water present in the ground, the Wizard turns the ground beneath his enemies to mud, slowing their advance. This spell is a Hex, with a casting range of 18". Select one enemy unit; this unit halves it's movement until the caster's next magic phase, rounding down. The Wizard can increase the range of this spell to 36". If so, the casting value increases to 14+.

1: Relentless Tide: Cast on a 9+
Snapping his fingers, the Wizard summons forth a magic wave of pure water that strengthens allies but tosses enemies around. This is an augment spell if cast at allies but a direct damage spell if cast on enemies, with a range of 24". Select a unit within line of sight of the Wizard casting the spell (this can be the wizard's own unit); if cast on an allied unit that unit's Movement value increases by 2 until the caster's next Magic phase. If cast on an enemy unit, it instead inflicts 2D6 S4 hits, increased to S5 if the enemy is standing in a marsh or a river.

2: Frosted Spears: Cast on a 6+
Willing the moisture in the air into solid form, the Wizard enchants the weapons of his allies, coating them in a razor-sharp magical ice. This is an augment spell with a range of 18". Select one allied unit; this unit gains a +1 bonus to all to hit rolls until the caster's next Magic Phase. Furthermore, both their ranged attacks and melee attacks count as magical. The Wizard can choose to amplify this spell, casting it at all allied units within 12". If so, the casting value is increased to 12+.

3: Watery Grave: Cast on a 10+
Conjuring forth an enormous orb of water, the Wizard seeks to drown his enemies with a deluge. Direct damage. Watery grave is fired just like a stone thrower, with a strength of 3(6). If you roll a misfire, do not roll on the Stone Thrower Misfire chart; the spell is simply nullified. The Wizard can choose to boost the strength of the shot to 5(8). If so, the cost of this spell is increased to 18+.

4: Waters of Life: Cast on a 12+
Summoning forth a drizzle of enchanted water over his allies, the Wizard strengthens and empowers them. Augment. This spell is cast on a single allied unit within 12" of the caster. The selected unit gains the Regeneration USR until the caster's next magic phase. The range of this spell can be increased to 24"; if so, the cost is increased to 16+.

5: Maelstrom: Cast on a 13+
Creating a vortex of water, the Wizard seeks to rip apart his foes. Magical Vortex. This spell uses the large round template. Place the Vortex as described in the rulebook, then roll 2D6 and an artillery dice: the combined result is how far the Vortex travels in inches. Should a misfire be rolled, the spell immediately ends. Any model touched by the template has to pass a toughness test or suffer a wound, with no armour saves allowed.

6: Frostburn: Cast on a 16+
Focusing his mind on a single enemy, the Wizard freezes the air around his foe, causing intense pain before freezing the unfortunate target solid. Direct damage. Frostburn is cast on a single enemy model within 24" (this can be a Champion, Character in a unit or similar). The chosen unit takes a S6 hit, with Multiple Wounds (D3), counting as a Flaming Attack. The Wizard can choose to boost the strength to 8 and to inflict D6 wounds, rather than D3. If so, the casting value of this spell increases to 22+.

Thoughts/ideas? Anything blatantly OP I've missed due to inexperience?

Pretty decent.
For the lore attribute, rather than auto-rally if targeted, I'd do an attempt to rally for any one broken unit within 24". That way you don't need the odd mix of direct damage/augment.

As for the spells:
1) Drop either the augment or direct damage, don't give options for both.
2) Rather than +1 to hit, (metal does that), I'd do fights in extra rank, and magical attacks. Boosted hits an area.
3) Should be 4(10) on boosted.
4) perfect.
5) short range, but good.
6) Call it Frost Bite and drop the flaming effect. Freezing to death should not be 'flaming'. It's too good of a sniper spell as writen. I'd allow look outs, and make it S6 (no multiple wounds) with the boosted being 2D6 hits.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Pretty decent.
For the lore attribute, rather than auto-rally if targeted, I'd do an attempt to rally for any one broken unit within 24". That way you don't need the odd mix of direct damage/augment.

As for the spells:
1) Drop either the augment or direct damage, don't give options for both.
2) Rather than +1 to hit, (metal does that), I'd do fights in extra rank, and magical attacks. Boosted hits an area.
3) Should be 4(10) on boosted.
4) perfect.
5) short range, but good.
6) Call it Frost Bite and drop the flaming effect. Freezing to death should not be 'flaming'. It's too good of a sniper spell as writen. I'd allow look outs, and make it S6 (no multiple wounds) with the boosted being 2D6 hits.

-Matt

Thanks for the interest, and I agree with your suggestions about the lore attribute. The fight in extra ranks suggestion feels a bit hard to explain fluff-wise though.
Regarding the Frostburn, dropping flaming attacks sounds reasonable enough. I'm not convinced that 2D6 S6 hits is worth a 22+ to cast though; maybe make it 1D6 S6 hits at 15+ and 2D6 at 18+?

I think it's too powerful overall. You have no magic missiles and everything is DD. That right there can't fly. Magic missiles are the default damager, with their limitations and all.

1. This would be a pretty powerful MM but you made it a DD AND an augment. Too much.
2. Way too much. It's better than Fire's sword of Rhuin at lower casting value.
3. Too powerful. Stone throwers are usually Rare, cost about as much as a (cheap) mage, and misfire. A mage with this is basically a better stone thrower except he has to cast, which is a problem of course, but he can also wear wards, hide in units, get LoS, etc.
4. Better than Life makes no sense at all.
5. Odd spell. Maelstroms are kind of anti-ship, but this is anti-infantry. I'd say something like making dangerous terrain or even impassable terrain.
6. I think this is too easy to kill other heroes. And if the other lvl 6s piss people off, this would massively. Every TK game would end almost immediately.

More importantly, I think, if anything should be a baseline for the lore it's Fire. Take Fire and do the opposite. Nearly everything here is doing damage. If it's just going to be another bashy spell lore, we have those already. Go a whole new direction. What is the THEME of water? You could say it's swiftness, muteability. Have it grant Vanguard or Swiftstride, stuff like that. Adding movement and subtracting movement seem watery to me.

What Duke said.
When I think water, I think something that is fluid and flexible, something that is capable of changing form and shape at a whim.

I like matt's suggestion about the lore attribute (as often you would want to buff a unit that is in combat currently, but rally another)

I like the regen spell and the stone thrower one, although the name is kinda wierd. Also shouldn't it be a vortex if it uses a template? ( since it can end on other units)

The concept of the dual spells is kinda wierd too, I'd rather not deviate too much since all the magic seems to be trending to the current format.

i'm also in the bandwagon that water feels like mostly augments/hexes, here is my brainstorm in that regard:

AUGMENT: Target unit gets +d3 to WS, BS, M, I until the start of the next friendly magic phase. Boosted gives d3 to all.
(based off miasma)

AUGMENT: Target unit gains Swiftstride, Strider (all), and impact hits (1) until the start of the next friendly magic phase.
Boosted gives to d3 units, or increases range
(difficult to buff movement based things since magic is after move)

AUGMENT: Wall of Ice: Target unit counts as being behind a wall until the start of the next friendly magic phase.
(for cannon shots, cover, and defended obstical bonus)

HEX: Target unit counts as being in a marsh until the start of the next friendly magic phase
boosted increases range
(could be devastating with failed dangerous on 1 and 2s, but usually avoidable if the opponent wants)

Direct Damage: Acid Rain: Every model in the unit takes a str 1 hit. No armor saves or regeneration allowed, in addition look out sir is not allowed for this attack.

I really like the idea of granting extra moves, extra movement and reforms to units as the theme of the water lore. Direct damage might feature, but it shouldn't be the theme.

So, the entire lore re-imagined, based on your feedback:

Lore attribute: Soothing Waves.
The Lore of Water deals with manipulating liquids. Wizards wielding the power of water range from the small but sly Goblin shamans to the mighty Slann Mage-Priests of the Lizardmen. Regardless of who wields it, the Wizard's aquamancy lets him soothe wounded companions and provide moisture to parched mouths. Whenever a spell from the Lore of Water is successfully cast, one allied unit within 18" of the caster may immediately attempt to regroup, using it's unmodified leadership.

Miremaster (Signature Spell): Cast on a 7+
Manipulating the water present in the ground, the Wizard turns the ground beneath his enemies to mud, slowing their advance. This spell is a Hex, with a casting range of 18". Select one enemy unit; this unit halves it's movement until the caster's next magic phase, rounding down. The Wizard can increase the range of this spell to 36". If so, the casting value increases to 14+.

1: Relentless Tide: Cast on a 9+
Snapping his fingers, the Wizard summons forth a magic wave of pure water that speeds allies up. This is an augment spell. Select a unit within line of sight of the Wizard casting the spell (this can be the wizard's own unit); this unit's movement value is increased by 2 until the caster's next magic phase.

2: Rejuvenating Spring: Cast on a 8+
Bringing forth a trickle of water from the ground beneath his allies, the Wizard imbues the warriors on his side with magic, speeding their attacks. This is an augment spell. Select one allied unit within 12" of the caster; this unit gains a bonus of 1 to either it's Initiative or Weapon Skill until the caster's next magic phase. The caster can choose to instead increase one of the stats by 2. If so, the casting value of this spell is increased to 13+.

3: Monsoon: Cast on a 11+
Creating a torrential downpour, the Wizard seeks to shield his allies from enemy missile fire. Remains in play. Select two points anywhere on the battlefield within 18" of the caster. Roll 2D6 and mark a line from one of the markers in the direction of the other, the line being as long as the result of the two D6. Any shooting attacks that draw line of sight through this line suffers a -1 modifier to hit. Shooting attacks that do not use BS instead roll a D6; on a 5+ the shot is ignored. The caster can choose to boost the effect of the spell, increasing the range to 36". If so, the casting cost is increased to 16+.

4: Waters of Life: Cast on a 12+
Summoning forth a drizzle of enchanted water over his allies, the Wizard strengthens and empowers them. Augment. This spell is cast on a single allied unit within 12" of the caster. The selected unit gains the Regeneration USR until the caster's next magic phase. The range of this spell can be increased to 24"; if so, the cost is increased to 16+.

5: Frosted Spears: Cast on a 14+
Willing the moisture in the air into solid form, the Wizard protects his allies from attack with a wall of razor-sharp ice spears. This is an augment spell with a range of 18". Select one allied unit within line of sight of the caster; any enemy charging this unit counts as charging through dangerous terrain until the caster's next Magic Phase. Furthermore, allied unit's melee attacks count as magical while the spell lasts. The Wizard can choose to amplify this spell, casting it at all allied units within 12". If so, the casting value is increased to 24+

6: Frostburn: Cast on a 16+
Focusing his mind on a single enemy, the Wizard freezes the air around his foe, causing intense pain before freezing the unfortunate target solid. Direct damage. Frostburn is cast on a single enemy model within 24" (this can be a Champion, Character in a unit or similar). The chosen model takes D6 S4 hits. The Wizard can choose to boost the strength of the spell to 6. If so, the casting value of this spell increases to 19+.

Now for some justification:

As no one complained about the signature, I left it as it was.

Dual function of Relentless Tide reworked.

Replaced Frosted Spears with Rejuvenating Spring.

Replaced Watery Grave with Monsoon.

Left Waters of Life left as is, I don't see the problem.

Replaced Maelstrom with the new version of Frosted Spears.

Weakened both versions of Frostburn.

There, 4 augments, 1 RiP, 1 hex and a direct damage spells. Thoughts?

Sig. make it D6 and 2D6 if you extend it. Rounding should be used sparingly.

1. Have this be all units within like 6" if you extend it.
2. I think this is covered by Light. And weak by comparison. Change it I'd say.
3. I think this is covered by Heavens. Water is stream/lake/river/ocean I'd think. This effect is also already used. Don't repeat.
4. I just can't see Regen existing in 2 lists and better than Life. If you'll look at the BRB, none of the fluffy spells are repeated. You want +armor you have to go metal. You want regen, you have to go Life. What special rules aren't used in spells? Like Strider, Scout, Vanguard, Swiftstride, ASL (hex) etc etc.
5. I think this is good--except for the augment. That's too powerful. A gunline that everyone has to take a dangerous test to charge is pretty sick.
6. Again, I can't see a magic sniper spell. Too many armies rely on their heroes. Look at Death's Caress of Laniph, which admittedly isn't a lvl 6, but that's because it would be crazy good. And realistically, I don't see frostburn as water. That's atmospheric, i.e., Heavens. Frostburn is caused by cold, not water. How about tsunami? Place a breath template, move it artillery, take a Str test or drown and any unit hit loses D6 movement.

I know you want to give regen, but it's too much and it cheapens Life. Add a Magic Missile. Just about every lore has one.

Damn it, always SOMETHING I miss.

Just gonna post the changed stuff I guess. Note that I won't change the sig; 1D6 feels a bit too random for me, it could either do almost nothing or completely immobilise the enemy.

2: Parch: cast on 5+
Draining the moisture from the ground and his foes, the Wizard creates an unnatural heat-wave. Remains in play. Hex. Select one enemy unit within 18" of the caster; the selected unit loses 1 M. Further casts of Parch on the same unit are cumulative.

3: Flowing Tides: Cast on a 9+
Conjuring a rapid-flowing river, the Wizard moves his allies across the battlefield with amazing speed Augment. Select one allied unit within 12" of the caster; this unit may immediately make an additional move as if it were the remaining moves phase. The unit may not march, however. The caster can choose to have this spell affect all targets within 12". If so, the casting value is increased to 18+.

4: Drown: Cast on 10+
Summoning a sphere of water around his enemy, the Wizard seeks to asphyxiate the foe. Direct damage. Select one enemy model within 18" of the caster; this model takes a number of hits equal to it's remaining wounds. These hits always wound on a 5+ and ignores armour saves. LoS! is allowed. The caster can choose to cause the spell to wound on 4's. If so, the cost of the spell is increased to 20+.

5: Watery Tendrils: Cast on a 12+
Concentrating deeply, the caster draws forth tenrdils of water from the ground that solidifies around his foes, ensnaring them. Remains in play. This is a hex spell with a range of 24". Choose one enemy unit; all models in the unit gains the Always Strike Last special rule. The caster can choose to increase the range of this spell to 48". If so, the casting cost is increased to 16+.

6: Frosted Spears: Cast on a 14+ (Moved to number 6, otherwise unchanged; 24+ is one hell of a lot, even for a spell as potentially powerful as this).
Willing the moisture in the air into solid form, the Wizard protects his allies from attack with a wall of razor-sharp ice spears. This is an augment spell with a range of 18". Select one allied unit within line of sight of the caster; any enemy charging this unit counts as charging through dangerous terrain until the caster's next Magic Phase. Furthermore, allied unit's melee attacks count as magical while the spell lasts. The Wizard can choose to amplify this spell, casting it at all allied units within 12". If so, the casting value is increased to 24+

I think it's a lot closer. I'll let other people comment a bit.

For drown, I'm a little iffy on how it penalizes solo heroes (such as guys on monsters who went to pound face). And some units could take 10 hits potentially, which makes it unbelievably useful against big things.

But I think you have a much more consistent theme overall.

Water lore would be a brilliant idea- also how about casting bonus near swamps, mires and rivers?

If there were to be such a thing as the Lore of Water, I could only see it as a buffing lore. Like mending wounds and giving defence and attack bonus. Which in fact could work out to be really competitive and good.

But I cannot see a splash of water hurting someone. I mean the OP has some really good ideas on the damaging spells. But it just doesn't make sence and seems unrealalistic. I know its Fantasy and realism is pretty much thrown out the window just from the name but still.

If someone guy in a big hat starts saying funny words like Akeem-throa-FATOOOOOOR and after that throwes water at me, I would just laugh.

Poppabear wrote:If there were to be such a thing as the Lore of Water, I could only see it as a buffing lore. Like mending wounds and giving defence and attack bonus. Which in fact could work out to be really competitive and good.

But I cannot see a splash of water hurting someone. I mean the OP has some really good ideas on the damaging spells. But it just doesn't make sence and seems unrealalistic. I know its Fantasy and realism is pretty much thrown out the window just from the name but still.

ahem, 2mins in





I don't do alot of fantasy, but I think a water lore would be cool.

Thing is, every Lore has direct damage spells. Heck, even Nehekharan Lore (which, ironically, is probably the most 'water'-ish lore) has the Skullstorm.

Water could maybe have a spell that has an additional effect of making ....

Idea.

Magical Vortex, however, instead of damaging or destroying enemy troops, what happens is it gives enormous debuffs to enemys, and gives huge buffs to allies that it passes over! It would have an additional effect where it could make swamps and rivers and such that it passes over more dangerous.

FM Ninja 048 wrote:

Poppabear wrote:If there were to be such a thing as the Lore of Water, I could only see it as a buffing lore. Like mending wounds and giving defence and attack bonus. Which in fact could work out to be really competitive and good.

But I cannot see a splash of water hurting someone. I mean the OP has some really good ideas on the damaging spells. But it just doesn't make sence and seems unrealalistic. I know its Fantasy and realism is pretty much thrown out the window just from the name but still.

ahem, 2mins in





I don't do alot of fantasy, but I think a water lore would be cool.

Doesn't count!... plus you'd need like a 28+ to cast that

I would think that to make a proper lore of water. It would require that the caster would have to have a cheap spell to summon water features permanelty. Then have the attack spells come from those bodies, such as tital waves, ect.

Glad someone else thought of arwyn (spelling) as well! That was the basis of the strider/swiftstride/impact hits spell... Well a unit running through the cleared out terrain behind a wave like that...

I'm still interested in how the lore pans out, have you done any playtesting?

Shadows aren't particularly dangerous either. I step all over mine all the time (well, almost, he's always one step ahead...).

Number 6 has waay too long a range for a snipe spell.

HoverBoy wrote:Number 6 has waay too long a range for a snipe spell.

Let's play a forum game: spot the guy who didn't read the thread!