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I know this topic has been started several times in the past, but I'd like to do an up-to-date version.

So what do you guys think the strongest CC in 40k is at this time? Also, I am talking on a point for point basis here so no 30 man death company squads that cost as much as an army.

What I am talking about is normal squads that you would likely see in game.

Personally it has to probably be Death cult assassins and the only thing I can think of that can match them would be wyches or preferably bloodbrides.

I know Black templar LC termies are pretty devastating as well with FC and preferred enemy, and so are purifiers against hordes. If you want add to this list and let me know what you guys think is a top contender.

10 man Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield Termies?

2+ 3++ is quite sick.

Bloodbrides only have 4++ and poison against Termies = who cares.


I guess if strong means hitting power or general surviving?

Cause Incubi can hit like a ton of bricks but they drop like spastics....

TWC with hammers and shields maybe; I'm not entirely sure.

Ogryn plus a Commie.

TH/SS's are definitely great but they are best for taking on elite units I find such as Paladins or most other really tough units.

On the other hand, they suffer to hordes and I am pretty sure someone else ran the math but 10 DCAs, and an inquisitor with psychostroke grenades, rad grenades (190pts) against a 200pt TH/SS... long story short the DCA's murder them even with their 3++ invuls. just the sheer amount of attacks wounding on 3+ and also WS5.

Secondly, wyches or bloodbrides with shardnets, can easily get enough guys in a 10 man squad in base to base so they only have 1 less, or 2 less attacks.

A 10 girl wych squad, hexatrix w/ agonizer, 2 shardnet.. pretty much annihilates a normal GKSS squad and can pretty much rival purifiers in CC... they also woop the crap out of vanilla marines both tactical and assault.

The above wych squad is only 150 points to boot and totally dominates other units in CC per points costs.

A squad of 10 DCA for 150 also destroys pretty much anything of equal points costs.

I don't think that there are many others in the game that rival these two point for point in CC, but if you can think of some please post here!

Also, don't just say mow them down with bolters or flame them to death with heavy flamers... this thread is strictly about CC.

There hasn't been much change since two weeks ago since last this came up.

Nearly every army has at least one strong CC option. They just express that quality in different ways in the context of different armies.

It would be more useful for you to name a codex and ask what units are good in CC from that codex, rather than to ask what all CC units are in the entire game.

Sorry Ailaros but I have been working lately and haven't had that much time to check a lot of posts, I also typed this in a while back and could only find threads from 2011.

Anyways, maybe you can give some insight on the post I just put up.

A mix of TH/SS and LC terminators are your best bet for the best unit in CC.

CountDeath wrote:Anyways, maybe you can give some insight on the post I just put up.

Well, so, for example, take two good CC units. Khorne berzerkers and Imperial Guard power blobs.

Berzerkers are great because they're fearless, wear power armor, and are in an army that can give them land raiders to ride in. They're more expensive than regular marines for virtually no more staying power - all of that cost getting put into furious charge, +1A, and +1WS. This means that khrone berzerkers are an utterly destructive killing machine on the charge, but are not much more than expensive marines when they don't. The way that you do close combat with them is to put yourself in a position where you only get into a close combat on your terms (with the charge), and you kill stuff so fast that they can't really hurt you back. You then want to repeat with as many charges as you can get off in a single game.

Power blobs are a very, very different beast. Because of their size, they're never going in a transport. Because of their size, you can pump a LOT of firepower into them, and they just don't really care. You killed 5 guardsmen? Here, have 5 more, I insist. Then, when they get into close combat, their WS3 S3 means that they're not doing very much damage up front, or really on any given turn. This would be bad were it not for the fact that there are just so many guys, and they get Ld9 with a reroll and stubborn, which means no fearless saves. They just stay there, turn after brutal turn, applying a small amount of damage every time until the opposing unit is eventually ground to a bloody pulp through pure attrition.

Both berzerkers and power blobs are really good in close combat. The difference is that they apply that killing power in a very different kind of way, and are backed up by very different kinds of armies. The same is true for more or less every codex (except, like, tau, of course). They have at least one good CC option, but they're all kind of different, and are in different contexts in their respective armies. This makes putting them up against each other in a 1 on 1 in a vacuum kind of pointless. Berzerkers may be good against power blobs, but not when they eat a battlecannon to the face (or two) before they get there. Likewise, blobs are good, but berzerkers come in an army that can field an awful lot of boltguns...

Paladins put the pwnage on everyone. Add a Librarian and they'll roflstomp any other unit in combat, bar none.

Abaddon with 10 Chosen Chaos Terminators all with pairs of Lightning Claws, icon of Slaanesh

All the terminators are I5 with 4 attacks standard and then 5 on the charge, They have re-rolls to wound and Abaddon can deliver 6 - 10 (11 if charging) attacks that are strength 8 at I6 with re-rolls to wound.

In total that is 40/50 attacks from the Terminators and 6-10 (11) from Abaddon, IMOH that gaks on everything

Thanks for some of your input Ailaros, I do agree that power blobs are very good at tarpitting, and are surprisingly good in CC considering they are an imperial guard choice and generally are not known for their CC prowess.

And Kaldor although I do agree that paladins are pretty good, I think they themselves would get roflstomped by an equal point squad of TH/SS and equal point amount of DCAs.

I also think wyches or bloodbrides more specifically would not destroy them by any means, but tarpit them all game so they can't do much. Each paladin only has two attacks base, if they are charged by bloodbrides or even wyches with shardnets they are only ever getting one attack. Actually, even if they were to charge I am sure you could pretty easily get a 5 man paladin squad in base to base with three shardnets and limit them to one attack even if they charged! Then they get the 4++ invul save in close combat.

If you do the math on that you're killing about 1-2 wyches per turn :p.

IXLoiero95XI wrote:Abaddon with 10 Chosen Chaos Terminators all with pairs of Lightning Claws, icon of Slaanesh

All the terminators are I5 with 4 attacks standard and then 5 on the charge, They have re-rolls to wound and Abaddon can deliver 6 - 10 (11 if charging) attacks that are strength 8 at I6 with re-rolls to wound.

In total that is 40/50 attacks from the Terminators and 6-10 (11) from Abaddon, IMOH that gaks on everything

Paladins go first (I6, or I10 with a Librarian) with 4 attacks each at S7, with master-crafted force weapons. Chaos Terminators are dead before they get to strike.

Don't get me wrong though, I love paladins and they definitely do have their place... they just aren't a unit that kills everything in the game well (although they do crush most other units with ease aside from wyches, TH/SS, DCA... that's pretty much it).

CountDeath wrote:Don't get me wrong though, I love paladins and they definitely do have their place... they just aren't a unit that kills everything in the game well (although they do crush most other units with ease aside from wyches, TH/SS, DCA... that's pretty much it).

They'll stomp TH/SS with ease. They just can't make ALL those 3++ saves, and DCA don't have grenades so are striking last and also getting pasted. I'm not really familiar with Wyches.

I should add that I'm referring to Paladins with a Librarian

Kaldor wrote:

IXLoiero95XI wrote:Abaddon with 10 Chosen Chaos Terminators all with pairs of Lightning Claws, icon of Slaanesh

All the terminators are I5 with 4 attacks standard and then 5 on the charge, They have re-rolls to wound and Abaddon can deliver 6 - 10 (11 if charging) attacks that are strength 8 at I6 with re-rolls to wound.

In total that is 40/50 attacks from the Terminators and 6-10 (11) from Abaddon, IMOH that gaks on everything

Paladins go first (I6, or I10 with a Librarian) with 4 attacks each at S7, with master-crafted force weapons. Chaos Terminators are dead before they get to strike.

write the entire thing, where they getting 4 attacks from ? and strength 7 ?

Guessing he is giving them a banner, and then the libby plus the squad goes like this. 1+STR from squad hammer hand, 1+STR from libby hammer hand and 1+ str from might of titan.

Yeah, 2 attacks standard, +1 for a banner, +1 if they assault +1 for any that have Falchions. So if we assume that they have 7 Halberds, 1 Warding Stave, 1 Hammer, and I usually give the Librarian a Warding Stave and include an Apothecary.

So on the charge they'll be getting 44 attacks, master crafted (so maybe ten re-rolls?) at S7 (S10 for the hammer) and I10.

Defensively they'll still be 21 attacks at I6, six attacks at I4, and three attacks at I1, master crafted, at S7 (S10 for the hammer) and counting as in difficult and dangerous terrain.

And you don't even want to think about adding another character to the mix. A Grandmaster with psychotroke and rad grenades is just nasty...

So he has 10 Paladins, 9 of them have Halberds 1 has a Banner, that's 550 points, my terminators only cost 515, for another twenty points I could get all 4++ saves instead of I5, but then again my only have one wound. Abaddon could potentially kill all of them, he is double there toughness and hits 3+ and then 2+ and re-rolls any ones but what it the likely hood of seeing 10 Paladins with Halberds and a Banner with a Librarian ??

I field Abaddon and 10 Slaanesh Chosen Terminators a lot.

Why are there neither Nobs nor Genestealers on that list?

You had to change it while I typing my post lol but that would cost a lot I imagine

Luke_Prowler wrote:Why are there neither Nobs nor Genestealers on that list?

Because they are both not as good as TH/SS terminators.

and technically they are, did you see the "Other... please specify in post!" option?

IXLoiero95XI wrote:You had to change it while I typing my post lol but that would cost a lot I imagine

lol, it comes in around the 750 mark! I've run it a few times for gaks and giggles, and while it does stomp anything it gets into combat with, it can be a struggle to use that to your advantage.

I added nobs, genestealers, power blob and banshees to the list...

So for far DCA and "other" are tied...

Kaldor wrote:

IXLoiero95XI wrote:You had to change it while I typing my post lol but that would cost a lot I imagine

lol, it comes in around the 750 mark! I've run it a few times for gaks and giggles, and while it does stomp anything it gets into combat with, it can be a struggle to use that to your advantage.

I could imagine, I hate playing Grey Knights, their rules are a bit over the top for CSM codex since were old lol BTW you avatar is mad where you get it ??

Pretty soon the new CSM edition will be out, which a lot people are assuming will be "Chaos Legions".

I think that some of the stuff in that codex will be able to go toe-to-toe with paladins when the time comes.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a unit that is just as powerful or perhaps even more powerful than paladins.

I mean look at Necron Wraiths, you don't think of Necrons as being extremely CC oriented, but for X amount of points (can't post because I don't want to violate), and they are significantly cheaper than paladins, also have two wounds and a 3++.

IXLoiero95XI wrote:I could imagine, I hate playing Grey Knights, their rules are a bit over the top for CSM codex since were old lol BTW you avatar is mad where you get it ??

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Chaos codex. I used to like the idea of streamlined army design but the more time goes on the more I find myself loving the intricate flexibility I find in the newer codecii.

My avatar is from the cover of the BL book Victories of the Space Marines

Where are ork Boyz? That would be my choice.

DeathReaper wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:Why are there neither Nobs nor Genestealers on that list?

Because they are both not as good as TH/SS terminators.

I agree due to the survivability of termies outside of combat, but it's funny as toxin stealers counter TH/SS termies quite nicely.

Other: Ork Boyz.