Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/20/11306372-catholic-nuns-group-stunned-by-vatican-scolding-for-radical-feminist-ideas?lite/

A prominent U.S. Catholic nuns group said it was "stunned" that the Vatican reprimanded it for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns and not enough on abortion and gay marriage.

More and more I'm glad I'm no longer catholic....

I have edited the title of this article so as to avoid flamebaiting. ~Manchu

Thanks for another, more in depth link from Manchu:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/us/02nuns.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Religion is a scourge on humanity. That's a fact.

Casey's Law wrote:Religion is a scourge on humanity. That's a fact.

True dat.

He has a cool mobile and hat.

However that is washed out by the fact that he was a natzi and runs an organization that harbors pedophiles...

So it's only gay when the boy's older than 13, right?

Slarg232 wrote:More and more I'm glad I'm no longer catholic....

If the Church was ever something you valued, you wouldn't leave it to the fools.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For anyone who is interested in the real problems at issue, rather than simply making a lot of idiotic jokes, you should take a look at this NYT piece on the Visitation, which began years ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/us/02nuns.html?pagewanted=all

Wow. Didn't think the dakka community was that narrow minded. I'm pretty shocked at the immediate response this thread got, not to mention fairly offended.

It is perfectly acceptable on Dakka to say that "religion is a scourge." You may also say things like "Tau are great in melee" or "Finecast is priced too cheaply."

Manchu wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:More and more I'm glad I'm no longer catholic....

If the Church was ever something you valued, you wouldn't leave it to the fools.

That is something I thought long and hard about when I was younger. You know what I realized? Religion is Irrational. People beleive it not because they want to beleive it, but because they feel they have to beleive it. That's why for the longest time priests have not been allowed to marry; it's just how it's always been done. Did God not create woman? Are you not spitting on his face telling him his creation isn't good enough for you, that you want to be "married" to him?

All people whom I have talked to (Read: I have not talked to every religious person) are very much the Holier than Thou type. Not even churchs, the holy places of worship, are safe from this; I can't tell you how many times I've seen people scoot away from those who have a disability or a strange physical appearance (This one lady has a black, disfigured hand that no one will shake, as though it could give them the plague). I've been called "Unchurchly" and "Satanic" for expressing a view that isn't "Hate gays, burn Abortionists". We recently had a flood up here that completley wiped out half of our state. The Churches answer? Send Money to starving kids in Africa.

God is alot like Lady Gaga in my eyes; I don't have a unfavorable opinion of them, but I can't fething stand their fan club. If anyone ever asks me, I do beleive in God. But I beleive in him on my own terms, not what some man in a pointy hat tells me.

Slarg232 wrote:People beleive it not because they want to beleive it, but because they feel they have to beleive it.

This has never been more wrong than among Catholics in 2012.

That's why for the longest time priests have not been allowed to marry; it's just how it's always been done.

Wrong again. Celibacy is a discipline required of Roman Rite priests by canon law -- and only since 1123 at that. Priests of other rites, like all the Orthodox, are allowed to marry.

All people whom I have talked to (Read: I have not talked to every religious person) are very much the Holier than Thou type.

You haven't talked to all the religious people? You clearly haven't talked to many religious people at all.

I've been called "Unchurchly" and "Satanic" for expressing a view that isn't "Hate gays, burn Abortionists".

So have I. I got over it.

We recently had a flood up here that completley wiped out half of our state. The Churches answer? Send Money to starving kids in Africa.

Yes, it's completely believable that the local parishes -- which constantly support their communities -- ceased all such efforts to further enrich those fat cats in Africa. Or at least on meth it is.

God is alot like Lady Gaga in my eyes; I don't have a unfavorable opinion of them, but I can't fething stand their fan club. If anyone ever asks me, I do beleive in God. But I beleive in him on my own terms, not what some man in a pointy hat tells me.

At some point, all of us have to grow up. You can make everything about you or you can look around and be a part of your real community. People who disagree with you will make things uncomfortable for you. They'll say "you're not really Catholic." They'll want you out of the Church so they can have it for their own agenda. If it means anything to you, anything more than another little trivial mark of identity that you can put on your facebook profile, then you'll stay anyway -- because if everyone who actually believes in the Gospel leaves then all that's left is the fear and the hate.

You give the example of a woman whose hand was disfigured so that the people wouldn't shake hands with her -- which is the sign of peace. That example is your responsibility, yours personally. It is your obligation to be there to make her welcome especially when no one else will do it. If you give up on your responsibility, fine. But own up to it. If you don't want to shake her hand, either, then don't blame it on everyone else who doesn't.

well I see NOM went straight to the top of the catholic church.

Manchu wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:People beleive it not because they want to beleive it, but because they feel they have to beleive it.

This has never been more wrong than among Catholics in 2012.

How so? It is easy to state that what someoen else is saying is Wrong, without anything to back it up.

That's why for the longest time priests have not been allowed to marry; it's just how it's always been done.

Wrong again. Celibacy is a discipline required of Roman Rite priests by canon law -- and only since 1123 at that. Priests of other rites, like all the Orthodox, are allowed to marry.

Romans.... Ain't they the guys who kinda crucified God's Son?

All people whom I have talked to (Read: I have not talked to every religious person) are very much the Holier than Thou type.

You haven't talked to all the religious people? You clearly haven't talked to many religious people at all.

Oh? Four Catholic Schools, five churches worth of people. I probably have talked to more religious people than anyone else here.

I've been called "Unchurchly" and "Satanic" for expressing a view that isn't "Hate gays, burn Abortionists".

So have I. I got over it.

Have you ever been branded as such by the entire congregation?

We recently had a flood up here that completley wiped out half of our state. The Churches answer? Send Money to starving kids in Africa.

Yes, it's completely believable that the local parishes -- which constantly support their communities -- ceased all such efforts to further enrich those fat cats in Africa. Or at least on meth it is.

This is true, your belief is not required. I truely wish I was making this up, but our Priest was hounding us to send money to Africa when we didn't have enough to rebuild houses.

God is alot like Lady Gaga in my eyes; I don't have a unfavorable opinion of them, but I can't fething stand their fan club. If anyone ever asks me, I do beleive in God. But I beleive in him on my own terms, not what some man in a pointy hat tells me.

At some point, all of us have to grow up. You can make everything about you or you can look around and be a part of your real community. People who disagree with you will make things uncomfortable for you. They'll say "you're not really Catholic." They'll want you out of the Church so they can have it for their own agenda. If it means anything to you, anything more than another little trivial mark of identity that you can put on your facebook profile, then you'll stay anyway -- because if everyone who actually believes in the Gospel leaves then all that's left is the fear and the hate.

Why do I have to stay anywhere near a Church to beleive in Gospel? "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I". The word Church is not mentioned. I do not have to be Catholic to believe in God. If everyone who beleives leaves and forms their own group, then the first group will be revealed for who they are; hate-filled "Catholics" in name only that have more in common with Westborrow than God.

Also, I took "Catholic" off on my facebook profile.

You give the example of a woman whose hand was disfigured so that the people wouldn't shake hands with her. That example is your responsibility, yours personally. It is your obligation to be there to make her welcome especially when no one else will do it. If you give up on your responsibility, fine. But own up to it. If you don't want to shake her hand, either, then don't blame it on everyone else who doesn't.

Every single day she was there and was close enough for me to get to her before the ritual went on, I shook her hand. When she was behind me, I shook her hand. When she was in front of me, I shook her hand. It is not my responsibility to go to a place of hypocrits who pat themselves on their backs thinking "Oh hey, look at me, I'm here and doing good!" while at the same time passing judgement on people and getting told not to pass judgement. That is something I refuse to do.

Casey's Law wrote:Religion is a scourge on humanity. That's a fact.

So is Science a scourge on humanity, based on your quote in your signature?

Slarg232 wrote:It is easy to state that what someoen else is saying is Wrong, without anything to back it up.

There no coercive force that compels Catholics to attend mass nor is there even significant social pressure. This isn't the 50s much less the 1550s. People, other than small children and moody pre-teens, attend mass because they want to.

Why do I have to stay anywhere near a Church to beleive in Gospel?

You don't. But you can't be a Christian by yourself:

"Where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I".

You just quoted it yourself.

The word Church is not mentioned.

And yet this is what the Church actually is: the community of believers.

Every single day she was there and was close enough for me to get to her before the ritual went on, I shook her hand. When she was behind me, I shook her hand. When she was in front of me, I shook her hand.

And if the rest of your story is true, now that you are gone, no one shakes her hand.

It is not my responsibility to go to a place of hypocrits ...

The community has bad characteristics so you leave it to those who are bad and then you complain that it's still bad? A fine position from which to call others hypocrites. In Jesus's time, too, the people who thought they were holy would not associate with those they considered sinners -- very much like you.

Haha, love it!

Dakka keeps me laughing for sure.

The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

People on the internet who don't actually care will complain about it?

Nope, that isn't new either.

Manchu wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

People on the internet who don't actually care will complain about it?

Nope, that isn't new either.

And people on the internet will complain about people complaining.

Wait a second...

LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

My awesomesauce new signature, what else?

Nothing new under the sun, it seems.

Manchu wrote:The community has bad characteristics so you leave it to those who are bad and then you complain that it's still bad? A fine position from which to call others hypocrites. In Jesus's time, too, the people who thought they were holy would not associate with those they considered sinners -- very much like you.

Right, right.

Oddly though, I don't crucify people, I just let them wallow in their ignorance. As you said; "People go because they want to". They want to go because they beleive what they are doing is right, because they are a community of Beleivers. You, nore I, can be moved from our beleifs, and nore can they. I can not show them how wrong they are, I have tried, beleive me.

Also, another difference; I was in a bad spot long before I joined Dakka. It's not a time I like to discuss, and so I won't go into detail. I was surrounded by so called Catholics who just watched me burn and did very little to help. You want to know who did help me? A whore. She drank every weekend, fethed people every other day (From the sound of it, three of them at a time were not uncommon), and even did drugs. So think about that; people in the church who are taught to love eachother and help each other out stick their noses up at people who actually need help, patting themselves on the back because "Hey guis! WE'Z SO AWESOME!" wouldn't help a person in need, but the "lowest of the low", a drugged out drunken slut, saw someone who needed help and just did what was necessary to help someone.

You guess why I hate religion so.

I can not show them how wrong they are, I have tried, beleive me.

That's where you're wrong. You can't make anyone believe differently than they do. But you can do as you believe and people will see it. And some people will find it compelling on their own terms, in their own consciences. This is how the Church really works -- no matter what the hierarchy wants to believe; no matter what people who criticize the Church want to believe.

You want to know who did help me? A whore.

I think I must have heard that somewhere before ... hmm ...

Manchu wrote:

You want to know who did help me? A whore.

I think I must have heard that somewhere before ... hmm ...

Actually, you're quite probably incorrect if you're implying that the whore/adultress from the bible was the same woman in later passages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene#As_prostitute
Just linked to Wiki because it was the quickest one.

You want to know who did help me? A whore.

Slowly but surely, Chaos is begin to grow.

Glad to have been of service, Slarg. Now I'll need 10% of your income. Since that's out of the way...

Manchu, you seem extremely defensive and offended. Not sure if that's your intention, but it makes things look fairly unobjective from your side. There *IS* significant social pressure not to miss Mass around these parts at least. Things like "You give the example of a woman whose hand was disfigured so that the people wouldn't shake hands with her. That example is your responsibility, yours personally. It is your obligation to be there to make her welcome especially when no one else will do it. If you give up on your responsibility, fine. But own up to it. If you don't want to shake her hand, either, then don't blame it on everyone else who doesn't." come off as a little presumptuous as well. Slarg isn't a bad person for feeling like a group of people who wronged him actually wronged him, nor is he bad for saying his opinion.

Hang out with more whores. That goes for everyone.

What's this? The Vatican is pro-Life? They think members of the Catholic Church should follow doctrine? What's the world coming to?

I can't help but LOL at the idea of Manchu defending his personal beliefs being somehow more "unobjective" than the... views given elsewhere in the thread.

We'll never become pyschics and do space travel and make space marines if we dont cast off the shackles of religion!

I honestly ignore anything religious now, it always ends in stupid circular arguments.

CT GAMER wrote:He has a cool mobile and hat.

However that is washed out by the fact that he was a Nazi and runs an organization that harbors pedophiles...

I'm, sorry that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

1. The Pope is not a Nazi, he was part of the Hitler Jugen... boys scouts, it was the stepping stone of becoming a Nazi, but the war ended before that could even happen. The Pope is a hell of guy and clearly has a touch more common sense then a lot of you.

2. Yes there has been a minority of pedos in the Church, but we must look back on why these things have happened, like years and years of no sex, or no sexual activity to a system that was instrumented hundreds of years ago. I mean look at the Anglican and most Protestant Churches. They allow their Bishops to marry because if they don't, things like what happened in the Catholic Church can happen to them and at least these guys are aware of the fact.

I mean Americans are cool and all, but seriously, you guys have a habit of spouting out Nazi to anyone who doesn't have the same Political or Religious views, or COMMUNIST or FASCIST.

I'm actually really surprised at the attitude of a lot of the people on Dakka. Do you guys even think about your posting. What people your offending or upsetting. Because I sure am.

Cheers Dakka.

Oh neat, another "lets bash other peoples religions" circle jerk. Can I ask why these type of threads arnt shut down immediately? Im being serious here. DAKKA shuts down threads about getting smashed and doped up from drugs, which really doesnt offend ANYONE, just annoys. Yet these threads are allowed to go fething page after page with some INCREDIBLY rude and offensive insults towards religion. I find it very insulting and unacceptable posting

LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

Ok seriously dude, shut up, because that is just really unacceptable. You really don't think do you. I can see your not a Catholic, because most people who aren't involved in the Church or don't care about it sure seem to complain about it a lot.

Grow up, and think before you speak. I'm pretty sure you get taught that at the age of five.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingCracker wrote:Oh neat, another "lets bash other peoples religions" circle jerk. Can I ask why these type of threads arnt shut down immediately? Im being serious here. DAKKA shuts down threads about getting smashed and doped up from drugs, which really doesnt offend ANYONE, just annoys. Yet these threads are allowed to go fething page after page with some INCREDIBLY rude and offensive insults towards religion. I find it very insulting and unacceptable posting

You have point. But I have lost two members of my family due to drug/alcoholic related problems, so when people start to go on about how "wasted" and "baked" they are it does tend to annoy and offend people like me. Because the people saying that crap really don't know what they are talking about.

I'm trustfully trying to show restraint, but when people start making jokes and bashing your Church that has helped you get through a lot of heart ache and difficult times like the things I've just said, you tend to get a bit upset and angry.

Poppabear wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:He has a cool mobile and hat.

However that is washed out by the fact that he was a Nazi and runs an organization that harbors pedophiles...

I'm, sorry that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

1. The Pope is not a Nazi, he was part of the Hitler Jugen... boys scouts, it was the stepping stone of becoming a Nazi, but the war ended before that could even happen. The Pope is a hell of guy and clearly has a touch more common sense then a lot of you.

2. Yes there has been a minority of pedos in the Church, but we must look back on why these things have happened, like years and years of no sex, or no sexual activity to a system that was instrumented hundreds of years ago. I mean look at the Anglican and most Protestant Churches. They allow their Bishops to marry because if they don't, things like what happened in the Catholic Church can happen to them and at least these guys are aware of the fact.

I mean Americans are cool and all, but seriously, you guys have a habit of spouting out Nazi to anyone who doesn't have the same Political or Religious views, or COMMUNIST or FASCIST.

I'm actually really surprised at the attitude of a lot of the people on Dakka. Do you guys even think about your posting. What people your offending or upsetting. Because I sure am.

Cheers Dakka.

This is why I can't stand the current pope.
He might not be a nazi, but he definitely told the people of Africa to NOT use condoms because condoms spread aids.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7947460.stm
"HIV/Aids is a tragedy that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem "

He also played a part in covering up the known child molesters:
http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/2701/Pope-Benedict-played-direct-role-in-protecting-priest-who-molested-over-200-deaf-boys.aspx
"The Catholic hiearchy has enabled and protected child rapists for decades. Over the past few months, we've seen the scandal get closer and closer to the Pope, mostly because of what's happening in his native Germany. But, this article shows that Benedict/Ratzinger was directly involved in the cover up here in the U.S."

And now apparently helping the poor comes in third after making sure gays can't get married and women can't get abortions.