American Nuns Reprimanded by Vatican

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**LoneLictor**

Poppabear wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

Ok seriously dude, shut up, because that is just really unacceptable. You really don't think do you. I can see your not a Catholic, because most people who aren't involved in the Church or don't care about it sure seem to complain about it a lot.

Grow up, and think before you speak. I'm pretty sure you get taught that at the age of five.

First of all, you're breaking your own rule. "Grow up, and think before you speak."

Secondly, is complaining about a sexist, homophobic organization that's historically responsible for countless genocides and hiding pedophiles and is currently run by a former Nazi unacceptable now? Because really, I think the Catholic Church is one of the few organizations it'd be acceptable to complain about.

Thirdly, I never insulted the average Catholic. I only insulted the top figures in the Catholic Church. There's nothing wrong with yer average Catholic.

**Kilkrazy**

Please remember that rule no.1 applies in the OT forum.

You can complain about the leadership of a religion without insulting them.

By insulting the leaders you insult the followers too, which is not going to get them on your side.

It is the followers who have the power to influence the leadership. By alienating the followers you help to perpetuate the power of the leadership.

**SilverMK2**

To be honest I would think that helping others with kindness and compassion would do more to align them with your cause than telling them they will burn in hell for doing something you don't like...

**Bromsy**

SilverMK2 wrote:To be honest I would think that helping others with kindness and compassion would do more to align them with your cause than telling them they will burn in hell for doing something you don't like...

And that is why you don't have a world spanning religion!

**Seaward**

Kilkrazy wrote:Please remember that rule no.1 applies in the OT forum.

You can complain about the leadership of a religion without insulting them.

By insulting the leaders you insult the followers too, which is not going to get them on your side.

It is the followers who have the power to influence the leadership. By alienating the followers you help to perpetuate the power of the leadership.

What if we're not particularly interested in trying to win over anyone who genuinely believes that contraception is evil? I'm fine with just writing off that section of the population as unsalvageable.

**Ahtman**

Seaward wrote: I'm fine with just writing off that section of the population as unsalvageable.

So you are essentially that which you disdain?

**Kilkrazy**

Then you are just talking to yourself.

**Private_Joker**

That little bit of comfort you find in your church is too high a cost to the rest of us. Pretty much supporting the hierarchy of any religion means you're an enabler, feeding them the right to say "Hey, we're now the majority listen to us". Well I don't want their voice to be heard if it's spewing hate filled bile, I want it to be snuffed out. Practice your religion quietly amongst your own. Don't bother the rest of us. We just want to get on with our lives. Thank you, goodbye.

**Poppabear**

LoneLictor wrote:
Poppabear wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:The Catholic Church is run by scumbags. What's new?

Ok seriously dude, shut up, because that is just really unacceptable. You really don't think do you. I can see your not a Catholic, because most people who aren't involved in the Church or don't care about it sure seem to complain about it a lot.

Grow up, and think before you speak. I'm pretty sure you get taught that at the age of five.

First of all, you're breaking your own rule. "Grow up, and think before you speak."

Secondly, is complaining about a sexist, homophobic organization that's historically responsible for countless genocides and hiding pedophiles and is currently run by a former Nazi unacceptable now? Because really, I think the Catholic Church is one of the few organizations it'd be acceptable to complain about.

Thirdly, I never insulted the average Catholic. I only insulted the top figures in the Catholic Church. There's nothing wrong with yer average Catholic.

You attack the Church, then you attack me as well, along with the other millions of Catholics as well. I just had a read of rule number one of the off topic forum, and your breaking it, you can complain about the leadership, but not about the structure or the Church in general, which you are. Now I would appreciate it if you would stop. There is no need to express your hate to the entire world, I can see you are one of those smug church haters, but you can be all smug as you will in your head.

Oh and FYI, I do think before I speak, I do for everything, I have a normal brain in which I am able to think about what is I am going to say and the reactions/consequences that will come along with what I am saying.

How bout this, go to Glasgow, and travel to Celtic Field, and shout at the top of your lungs about how the Catholic church is full of raging homosexuals and baby-touchers, then after you mayhem which will unsew, then you might get a grasp on reality and finally learn to "THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK"

Cheers

**SilverMK2**

Poppabear wrote:How bout this, go to Glasgow, and travel to Celtic Field, and shout at the top of your lungs about how the Catholic church is full of raging homosexuals and baby-touchers, then after you mayhem which will unsew, then you might get a grasp on reality and finally learn to "THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK"

If you can't see the difference between that an what and how things have been said, then I'm afraid there is not really all that much point in continuing any form of "discussion". I also like that you assume the Catholics at Celtic Field will be unable to act like reasoned, sensible people, but instead will turn into some form of foaming mob because one person is being an idiot. Way to score an own goal

**Poppabear**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Poppabear wrote:How bout this, go to Glasgow, and travel to Celtic Field, and shout at the top of your lungs about how the Catholic church is full of raging homosexuals and baby-touchers, then after you mayhem which will unsew, then you might get a grasp on reality and finally learn to "THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK"

If you can't see the difference between that an what and how things have been said, then I'm afraid there is not really all that much point in continuing any form of "discussion". I also like that you assume the Catholics at Celtic Field will be unable to act like reasoned, sensible people, but instead will turn into some form of foaming mob because one person is being an idiot. Way to score an own goal

Actually no, that is not what I assume. I assume that if someone was spouting crap about the church in the middle of one the most populated catholic zones, someone would go up to said person and kick their bloody head in. I'm not saying that 100+ people will jump the bugger and form into a huge mob, please quote the part where I said that. And if you quote the mayhem bit, don't even, cause all I meant there was that if he did he was going to end up with a broken everything.

Edit:

If I came up to you and started to say that everything you believe in, and put your faith into, was a entire hunk of crap and because you believed that, makes you an idiot and a raging homosexual that likes to touch little boys!?!?!?!? You tell me where you would reason with me in that bloody situation. My guess is that any sort of reasoning up to that point would just be thrown out the window.

And its not just someone acting like an idiot (this has happened in the past because of people who "Just wanted to see what would happen") and they end up half dead on the side walk because of "What just happened". Its someone who attacks an entire religion and culture because they think its wrong and somewhere in that person self-righteous being is a git that deserves what ever comes to him.

**blood reaper**

Casey's Law wrote:Religion is a scourge on humanity. That's a fact.

QFT

I totally agree.

**SilverMK2**

Poppabear wrote:Actually no, that is not what I assume. I assume that if someone was spouting crap about the church in the middle of one the most populated catholic zones, someone would go up to said person and kick their bloody head in.

Still not really seeing the distinction - you are still saying that people are justified to react violently, possibly seriously hurt or even kill people because they disagree with what/how someone says something...

please quote the part where I said that. And if you quote the mayhem bit, don't even, cause all I meant there was that if he did he was going to end up with a broken everything.

Sorry, but when you say "mayhem which will unsew" when talking about a large crowd of people, that implies a mob of people, not "a single person going over and kicking someone in" (which is still far more than some idiot being an idiot deserves to have happen to them).

Though to be honest, I am having a hard time following what you are actually writing.

If I came up to you and started to say that everything you believe in, and put your faith into, was a entire hunk of crap and because you believed that, makes you an idiot and a raging homosexual that likes to touch little boys!?!?!?!? You tell me where you would reason with me in that bloody situation. My guess is that any sort of reasoning up to that point would just be thrown out the window.

I would quite possibly laugh in your face. Though more likely I would shut the door in your face (which is what I have done to door to door nut jobs/Christians/etc before)/walk off if it was in public. That is the reasonable response. Being reasonable does not always mean attempting to reason with someone - especially when it is clear they are beyond reason.

And its not just someone acting like an idiot (this has happened in the past because of people who "Just wanted to see what would happen") and they end up half dead on the side walk because of "What just happened". Its someone who attacks an entire religion and culture because they think its wrong and somewhere in that person self-righteous being is a git that deserves what ever comes to him.

No, they don't "deserve whatever comes to them". No matter how much of an idiot someone is being, or how much you disagree with what someone says/does/is, does not mean you can, for example, round them up and put them into a camp where they are worked to death and/or fed into the ovens. It is especially hypocritical coming from a religion where one of the core beliefs is supposedly in being nice to people - how exactly do you reconcile that attitude to beating the crap out of/killing people who don't agree with you?

**Hazardous Harry**

SilverMK2 wrote:
No, they don't "deserve whatever comes to them". No matter how much of an idiot someone is being, or how much you disagree with what someone says/does/is, does not mean you can, for example, round them up and put them into a camp where they are worked to death and/or fed into the ovens. It is especially hypocritical coming from a religion where one of the core beliefs is supposedly in being nice to people - how exactly do you reconcile that attitude to beating the crap out of/killing people who don't agree with you?

Weeeeell, we do have laws that make racial verbal abuse illegal and the like. Not that attacking a religious organization is the same thing, but it is actually against the law to have the opinion that black people should be round up and hung (I think).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Poppabear, it seems that Lonelictor is only using the very words you used against you. Frankly If anyone is making personal attacks against individual posters, it's you.

**SilverMK2**

Hazardous Harry wrote:Weeeeell, we do have laws that make racial verbal abuse illegal and the like. Not that attacking a religious organization is the same thing, but it is actually against the law to have the opinion that black people should be round up and hung (I think).

There is no law that (as far as I am aware) determines what you can or cannot think. There are several which limit what you can and cannot say, or how you can say it. You are more than able to have the opinion that all black people should be rounded up and hung, however, to act on that opinion, or to incite hatred/a number of other things in relation to that opinion would be, in many places, illegal.

It is sometimes a fine line, and sometimes hard to tell when someone has crossed over it.

**Castiel**

Well this thread is going well. I think that the Vatican made a really daft call on this one.

On another note please stop all the bashing of religion. Live and let live, people.

**Kilkrazy**

I take it that you are deists.

**htj**

As soon as you decide that your position is irrefutable and un-open to debate, you have become as bad as the person you are trying to convince otherwise.

Why should the person whose beliefs you detest listen to your argument, if you are not listening to theirs? Blanket hate statements aren't going to get you anywhere.

I am decidedly areligious and have serious reservations about the nature of organised religion, but I cannot deny the good it can do. Whilst it does not conform to my own personal views I would never lambast those who practice it with hate-filled condescension.

It sickens me that homosexuality and contraception are decried as evil by the Catholic church, and I have debated it once or twice with those who hold it to be true. The only time I've ever made headway was when I was willing to calmly and reasonably listen to their point of view. Otherwise you sink to the level of children in the playgroud, and you only compound the views you seek to change.

**Castiel**

I'm an atheist actually, but I don't get the hatred that religion can inspire.

**Poppabear**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Poppabear wrote:Actually no, that is not what I assume. I assume that if someone was spouting crap about the church in the middle of one the most populated catholic zones, someone would go up to said person and kick their bloody head in.

Still not really seeing the distinction - you are still saying that people are justified to react violently, possibly seriously hurt or even kill people because they disagree with what/how someone says something...

please quote the part where I said that. And if you quote the mayhem bit, don't even, cause all I meant there was that if he did he was going to end up with a broken everything.

Sorry, but when you say "mayhem which will unsew" when talking about a large crowd of people, that implies a mob of people, not "a single person going over and kicking someone in" (which is still far more than some idiot being an idiot deserves to have happen to them).

Though to be honest, I am having a hard time following what you are actually writing.

If I came up to you and started to say that everything you believe in, and put your faith into, was a entire hunk of crap and because you believed that, makes you an idiot and a raging homosexual that likes to touch little boys!?!?!?!? You tell me where you would reason with me in that bloody situation. My guess is that any sort of reasoning up to that point would just be thrown out the window.

I would quite possibly laugh in your face. Though more likely I would shut the door in your face (which is what I have done to door to door nut jobs/Christians/etc before)/walk off if it was in public. That is the reasonable response. Being reasonable does not always mean attempting to reason with someone - especially when it is clear they are beyond reason.

And its not just someone acting like an idiot (this has happened in the past because of people who "Just wanted to see what would happen") and they end up half dead on the side walk because of "What just happened". Its someone who attacks an entire religion and culture because they think its wrong and somewhere in that person self-righteous being is a git that deserves what ever comes to him.

No, they don't "deserve whatever comes to them". No matter how much of an idiot someone is being, or how much you disagree with what someone says/does/is, does not mean you can, for example, round them up and put them into a camp where they are worked to death and/or fed into the ovens. It is especially hypocritical coming from a religion where one of the core beliefs is supposedly in being nice to people - how exactly do you reconcile that attitude to beating the crap out of/killing people who don't agree with you?

I am totally in my right to express angry and disbelief at people who be little my faith and pretty much call me a homosexual and that I touch little boys. And yes they may have been aiming those silly immature remarks at the hierarchy of the church, but like what has been said before, you attack the Church, you also attack its followers.

You are correct on how the Church teaches goodwill towards others, but you can keep dreaming if you think I should tolerate someones immaturity and rudeness towards my faith. Its basic human nature. If you attack something that someone holds dearly to them or try and take it away, you can bet your bloody behind that your going to get a smack in the mouth, most people just don't walk away after the crap that has been posted. And they only post this crap because there to damn scared about really saying it, bloody keyboard warriors.

If I was to post a topic about the faults of the Anglican Church on the off-topic forum, I would get half the bloody English posters raging across the post because they would be upset to see that their church/faith is being ridiculed and belittled.

You tell me where I am not allowed to express my anger towards gits who think they can joke about my faith and the people of the Church, you show me? Or otherwise you can just get off your high horse and stop thinking your better then every Catholic out there. May I ask what your faith is?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit:

On another note. The Church may see homosexuality as a evil, but most Catholics do not. I sure as hell don't. I have some gay mates who I would take a bullet for, they are a human being and they were born that way. They do not have tainted souls or have a instant ticket to hell or any of that nonsense.

**htj**

Poppabear, if you follow the teachings of Christ then you should turn the other cheek and rise above the conflict, not resort to violence and hostility. It's understandable that you're angry about people attacking what's dear to you, but your best way to prove them wrong is to accentuate the positive beliefs to which you subscribe.

**Poppabear**

Yes you are two right there. I have said what I wanted to say. If I post any more Ill just raise my blood pressure. ;D.

Thank you for reminding me.

**TheRobotLol**

blood reaper wrote:
Casey's Law wrote:Religion is a scourge on humanity. That's a fact.

QFT

Agreed.

FTW

Agreed.

**Mr Hyena**

Humans are a scourge on humanity.

**SilverMK2**

Mr Hyena wrote:Humans are a scourge on humanity.

Humanity is for the weak.

**SlaveToDorkness**

KingCracker wrote:Oh neat, another "lets bash other peoples religions" circle jerk. Can I ask why these type of threads arnt shut down immediately? Im being serious here.

Because the vaunted " Rule #1" does not apply to religion. In fact it seems to encourage bashing it. I missed that rule somewhere.

**Vitruvian XVII**

But we cant have a Emporer until we has none religions!

**purplefood**

On the plus side.
The sky hasn't fallen on our heads...
So things aren't all bad...

**SilverMK2**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Because the vaunted " Rule #1" does not apply to religion. In fact it seems to encourage bashing it. I missed that rule somewhere.

Rule #1 is just "be polite" - what different people consider to be "polite" differs, especially when it comes to expression of religious beliefs/discussion of said beliefs.

However, just to clarify what Rule #1 actually says:

Rule #1 wrote:Rule 1: Be Polite
This seems obvious, however many folks can sometimes forget that common courtesy goes a long way to lending respect to both you and your opinions. Just because you don't see the other users' faces doesn't mean they don't have feelings and won't be hurt by rude comments or offensive images. When you see something that you find silly, rude or insulting first assume that perhaps there is more to it than you initially thought. Look at it again, keeping in mind that tone and inflection is difficult to convey in a visual format. It may be that the person is attempting a joke or is exaggerating on purpose. It is best to politely request clarification before accusing someone being ignorant, a liar, or worse.

If after clarification you still disagree with the person then politely outline your points. Try to avoid name-calling or even implying insults wherever possible. These tactics generally only inflame a situation and lead to what are known as "Flame Wars." Whenever a flame war starts it usually ruins a perfectly good discussion. Others will lose interest in the thread and the site in general if this kind of interchange becomes a common occurrence.

Please remember that posting and reading online is a visual format and as such the spelling, grammar and look of your posts is the only way others understand what you are saying. Therefore, in order to be polite, all users are expected to make an effort to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation and should refrain from using internet shorthand or other distracting methods of writing, such as writing a post completely bolded, with capital letters, in a strange color, etc.

It also should go without saying that swearing, profanity, sexual references, etc, are strictly forbidden, including all images that are posted on or uploaded to our site. Remember that we have users of all ages and that Dakka should be a welcoming place for everyone to enjoy.

**Seaward**

Ahtman wrote:
Seaward wrote: I'm fine with just writing off that section of the population as unsalvageable.

So you are essentially that which you disdain?

I don't follow. I disdain individuals who believe contraception to be evil because an imaginary being told them it was so, thus I am an individual who believes contraception to be evil because an imaginary being told me so?

I don't think that logic train left the station on the right track.