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Pretty simple, so simple that it's probably been done a billion times before.

Nevertheless, post the ways you would like your most used codex 'fixed' - items that need balancing, units need a boost or a hit, etc.

I'll go with Imperial Guard:

Primaris Psyker: Psychic Hood +10pts

Company Command Squad: Creed gets Kell thrown in for +15pts
Company Command Squad: Medic - 20pts
Company Command Squad: Bodyguards can take Combat Shields (5++) +5pts
Company Command Squad: Vox Network +25pts (whole army counts as having Vox)

Lord Commissar: Wargear to ignore first ID wound +5pts

Penal Legion: Squad size 10-30 models, 8pts/model.
Veterans: Doctrines 20pts each, third special weapon additional 10pts (hard to find that many Plasma Guns!)
Conscripts: 3pts each
Infantry Squad: Mortar/Heavy Bolter +5pts
Platoon Command: Medic - 20pts

Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Ogryn: 30pts each, Bone 'Ead +40pts with option for Power Weapon +10pts
Stormtroopers: 16pts each, Assault 2 18" Hot-Shot Lasguns, WS4
Stormtrooper Doctrines: 1x Re-roll Deep-strike, 1x Infiltrate + Stealth, 1x Demolitions (as per Vets)

Hellhound/Devildog/Banewolf: come with Smoke Launchers
Vendetta: Transport Cap. 6 models, 150pts
Valkyrie: MRP - 20pts
Scout Sentinels: 25pts each
Armoured Sentinels: 50pts each, possible move to Elites?

Leman Russ Eradicator: AP3, 190pts, or Heavy 2 gun, same points as now.
Leman Russ Punisher: Either as is but 155pts or twin-linked Punisher at 175pts
Leman Russ Vanquisher: Co-axial Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter +10pts, AP1, 165pts base.
Basilisk: 110pts
Deathstrike: Special Rule: Can't fire T1, Fires T2 on 3+, T3 on 2+, T4 auto.

Camo Netting: 10pts
Extra Armour: 5pts
Sponson Heavy Flamers: can fire both counting as 1 main weapon.
Sponsons: may fire both at visible target in front arc, counting as one weapon but twin-linked.

Nothing major (I don't think) but may see some of the less used choices more often, or at least a more difficult choice not to take them now!

I'm...well...oddly fine with most of what is said here.

I was truly expecting a bunch of making stuff more OP, but this steps in the right direction of balance.

I really like the Veteran third weapon change. I really like the Vendetta price boost. I'd love cheaper sentinels (30pts would be reasonable), and armoured ones in the elites slot (45-50 would be nice).

More expensive chimera with autocannon option would be nice. Maybe 10pts for the autocannon, considering how easy you can spam it.

Yes to smoke on Hellhounds standard. Yes to Eradicator change. Yes to Punisher. Yes to Vanquisher. Basilisk looks good. Deathstrike change would go a ways to helping it.

Not sure on the master vox network. I'd like voxes to be unlimited range if both units have one.

evilbishop wrote:Pretty simple, so simple that it's probably been done a billion times before.

Nevertheless, post the ways you would like your most used codex 'fixed' - items that need balancing, units need a boost or a hit, etc.

I'll go with Imperial Guard:

Primaris Psyker: Psychic Hood +10pts

Don't see why not unless there's some fluff reason. As far as I know it's Imperium tech, right?

evilbishop wrote:
Company Command Squad: Creed gets Kell thrown in for +15pts
Company Command Squad: Medic - 20pts
Company Command Squad: Bodyguards can take Combat Shields (5++) +5pts
Company Command Squad: Vox Network +25pts (whole army counts as having Vox)

Agreed about Kell being cheap with Creed - since Creed costs so much anyway.
Personally I don't see the point of FNP on a T3 unit anyway. If it's in it should be dirt cheap.
And I'm really not a fan of cc gear in the IG. Keep it for the marines.

evilbishop wrote:
Lord Commissar: Wargear to ignore first ID wound +5pts

Would be a bit weird. I'd rather he was assigned to a unit during deployment and was no longer an IC. Solves him being squished in CC easily.

evilbishop wrote:
Penal Legion: Squad size 10-30 models, 8pts/model.
Veterans: Doctrines 20pts each, third special weapon additional 10pts (hard to find that many Plasma Guns!)
Conscripts: 3pts each
Infantry Squad: Mortar/Heavy Bolter +5pts
Platoon Command: Medic - 20pt

Agree on all of these. Not sure what you mean about veterans though.

evilbishop wrote:
Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Not sure about this. Could pop light armour with nothing more than a transport wall. Would make mech guard even more powerful.

evilbishop wrote:
Ogryn: 30pts each, Bone 'Ead +40pts with option for Power Weapon +10pts
Stormtroopers: 16pts each, Assault 2 18" Hot-Shot Lasguns, WS4
Stormtrooper Doctrines: 1x Re-roll Deep-strike, 1x Infiltrate + Stealth, 1x Demolitions (as per Vets)

I'm down with that.

evilbishop wrote:
Hellhound/Devildog/Banewolf: come with Smoke Launchers
Vendetta: Transport Cap. 6 models, 150pts
Valkyrie: MRP - 20pts
Scout Sentinels: 25pts each
Armoured Sentinels: 50pts each, possible move to Elites?

Everyone knows Vendettas need a point increase. Agree on everything else, would also like to see Armoured Sentinals moved to elites - even with the Vendetta increased in price there's little reason to take Armoured Sentinels.

evilbishop wrote:
Leman Russ Eradicator: AP3, 190pts, or Heavy 2 gun, same points as now.
Leman Russ Punisher: Either as is but 155pts or twin-linked Punisher at 175pts
Leman Russ Vanquisher: Co-axial Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter +10pts, AP1, 165pts base.
Basilisk: 110pts
Deathstrike: Special Rule: Can't fire T1, Fires T2 on 3+, T3 on 2+, T4 auto.

Punisher would be fine at 160 points I reckon. It definitely doesn't need a twin-linked variety, that would be over-kill.
Also agree with the Vanquisher, it needs some love.
Deathstrike is a stupid vehicle. It shouldn't be in the codex at all.

Blacksails wrote:
Not sure on the master vox network. I'd like voxes to be unlimited range if both units have one.

Good idea, seems entirely reasonable. I mean, you can communicate between different corners of the Galaxy, but not 100ft over there? I suppose they were thinking of Electronic Warfare type interference on the battlefield but then surely they wouldn't work at all and you'd just be shouting?

Joey wrote:And I'm really not a fan of cc gear in the IG. Keep it for the marines.

Neither am I, yet the Power Weapons, Fists, Priests, etc, present in the list mean the options are there. This was supposed to add a tiny bit of depth to the options already available.

Joey wrote:

evilbishop wrote:
Lord Commissar: Wargear to ignore first ID wound +5pts

Would be a bit weird. I'd rather he was assigned to a unit during deployment and was no longer an IC. Solves him being squished in CC easily.

Thought about that. Then immediately thought about squads of 50 Conscripts with LC + Camo Cloak. Probably a bit too cheap for such a good tarpit/wrap unit (~230pts... for 51 Ld10 Stubborn models... with these changes).

Joey wrote:

evilbishop wrote:
Veterans: Doctrines 20pts each, third special weapon additional 10pts (hard to find that many Plasma Guns!)

Agree on all of these. Not sure what you mean about veterans though.

Say, 10 Veterans, 3 melta would be 40 points for the melta. Three Plasma would be 55 points. Diminishing returns in an army that generally spends as few points on a unit as possible, in order to get more units. Justification could be that even veterans would be hard pushed to find/scavenge that many of one type of a relatively rare weapon?

Joey wrote:

evilbishop wrote:
Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Not sure about this. Could pop light armour with nothing more than a transport wall. Would make mech guard even more powerful.

True, although the extra points for transport + gun would likely mean either a) you would face fewer Chimera's or b) the rest of the list would be lacking. Multi-lasers are also still a good weapon. 10 points might be more reasonable... but then for an extra 5 points you could get a Hydra...

Joey wrote:

evilbishop wrote:
Armoured Sentinels: 50pts each, possible move to Elites?

Everyone knows Vendettas need a point increase. Agree on everything else, would also like to see Armoured Sentinals moved to elites - even with the Vendetta increased in price there's little reason to take Armoured Sentinels.

I occasionally take one to tie up a squad in combat, but it does use a FA slot and is another kill point.

Joey wrote:Punisher would be fine at 160 points I reckon. It definitely doesn't need a twin-linked variety, that would be over-kill.

I don't think twin-linked would be that bad. Unless you play Orks or Foot IG or something. 160 seems fair.

Joey wrote:Deathstrike is a stupid vehicle. It shouldn't be in the codex at all.

Agreed

evilbishop wrote:
Neither am I, yet the Power Weapons, Fists, Priests, etc, present in the list mean the options are there. This was supposed to add a tiny bit of depth to the options already available.

Personally I don't think CCS should have many combat options at all. But support options in 40k are limited. If they gave a good boost to nearby troops, they'd instantly be targeted and wiped out.
Giving the veterans close combat shield options is kind of meh though. No one would take them when for 5 points more they could get melta guns.
The fact that they will always be T3 I3 4+/5+ armour save means they just can't do CC no matter how many points you throw at them. I'd like to see more options for the company commander though. You could fluff-wise justify giving him a load of pimp wargear.

evilbishop wrote:
Thought about that. Then immediately thought about squads of 50 Conscripts with LC + Camo Cloak. Probably a bit too cheap for such a good tarpit/wrap unit (~230pts... for 51 Ld10 Stubborn models... with these changes).

Hmm that's true. But the status quo renders him useless. Giving him immunity to the first instant death seems too much like a patch to me.

evilbishop wrote:
Say, 10 Veterans, 3 melta would be 40 points for the melta. Three Plasma would be 55 points. Diminishing returns in an army that generally spends as few points on a unit as possible, in order to get more units. Justification could be that even veterans would be hard pushed to find/scavenge that many of one type of a relatively rare weapon?

Ah that makes sense. I approve, though I would also approve of vets having only two special weapons. As much as it would nerf my mech guard, it's pretty insane gameplay and fluff wise.

evilbishop wrote:
True, although the extra points for transport + gun would likely mean either a) you would face fewer Chimera's or b) the rest of the list would be lacking. Multi-lasers are also still a good weapon. 10 points might be more reasonable... but then for an extra 5 points you could get a Hydra...

Yeah but hydras can't carry 3 meltaguns in the back too. An autocannon glances a rhino on a 4, penetrates on a 5 or a 6. To my mind that's a big shift in the dynamic of a mech list. I no longer have to take dedicated anti-light infantry. More Vendettas!

evilbishop wrote:
I don't think twin-linked would be that bad. Unless you play Orks or Foot IG or something. 160 seems fair.

A twin-linked gatling cannon deals out 15 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead vs MEQ. Add in sponson heavy bolters for another dead.
4.4 MEQ dead from a single round of shooting is pretty devastating. Not saying I wouldn't LOVE it, but it'd be an auto-take in any of my lists.
Add in Pask and you're looking at 20 BS 4 twin-linked shots with re-rolls against MCs. Say goodbye to 'nid MCs.

One thread for everyone's ideas on every codex is not going to be a very good thread. Consider renaming this thread to "my IG desires".

Fixing GKs:

Get rid of TL autocannon options on dreads.
Make Coteaz 150 points.
Henchman cannot take a rhino or razorback.
Increase points of rhinos and razorbacks to 50 and 55 points respectively.

That should help some. (I'm a GK player)

Codex: Space Marines:

Librarians given a 4+ Invulnerable save as baseline, wrap it into the Psychic Hood. (Can do this for all Librarians)

Command Squads/Honor Guard Squads cheaper, give Epistolarys the ability to take an Honor Guard, same with Masters of Sanctity(next), and normal Librarians/Chaplains Command Squad

Chaplains can be upgraded to Masters of Sanctity, making them WS6, 3 wounds, gives their Re-roll ability to all units in Close Combat within 12inches. Upgrade costs 25-50pts?

For Troops, I'd leave Tactical Squads alone. Maybe give Scout Squads BS/WS4 back, since, wow, that was a harsh nerf.

Elites... I'd maybe give Terminators +1 WS for Assault Terminators/ + 1 BS for Shooty Terminators. Give them all more options. Give the Terminator Sergeant the option to take a Power/Chainfist. Give the Assault Terminator Hammer/Shield Upgrade +10 pts, so, LCs are 40pts, TH/SS termies are 50.

Sternguard can now take their Special Ammunition on Storm Bolters. Bump up Stormbolters to +5pts, instead of +3pts

Techmarines given something useful. No idea what. Maybe make vanilla Techmarines an HQ attachment to the Command Squad, but can move seperately?

Dreadnaughts are fine as they are. Maybe reduce the point cost of Venerable/Ironclads to make them more in line, since the vanilla dreadnaughts are carrying all the awesome. with 2x TL AC.

Legion of the Damned need a large price drop. Maybe give the option to have a commander be a Legion of the Damned, moving LoD into the Troop Choices?

Fast Attack, give Assault Marines + 1 attack, cheaper/more close combat upgrades, and maybe even reduce the price a little.

Vanguards, major price drop and upgrades made cheaper, to make them more in line with their Sternguard brothers.

Land Speeders are fine.

Bikes/Attack Bikes are fine (imo)

Heavy Support - Reduce Devastator costs on Heavy Weapons. A tactical squad can get a Lascannon for 10, but they have to pay 30? :O

Predators are fine, or might even need a price hike upwards.

Vindicators get Siege Shields rolled into their base equipment, price stays the same. maybe boost their side/rear armor a bit, since they are supposed to be used in tight, city fight conditions. Would make sense they'd be more prepared for attacks coming in on the flanks.

Land Raiders are fine.

Some special Characters need a price drop, like Calgar. Tigirius can stay the same if he gets a built in invulnerable save. Can't really think of anything else right now.

All of this is imo >.>

Necrons...

Overall, I'm cool with it.

Lets see though...

Monolith gets DS protection

Flayed ones get fixed. I suggested these rules for them here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/443028.page



Doomsday Ark...hmm what to do with it. Make it no longer open topped? I don't see how its considered an open topped vehicle.

Praetorians get +1 attack.

Destroyers get fearless (since they are basically insane and care only for killing now) and some sort of targeting system that gives them rerolls or something. They are supposed to be very calculating killers, thinking of the most efficient ways to kill their targets. It makes sense that they would have some sort of precision targeting system.

Scythes get an upgrade that forces any enemy squad they pass over to take a pinning test, to represent those insanity-inducing engines that were mentioned in the fluff.

evilbishop wrote:
Leman Russ Eradicator: AP3, 190pts, or Heavy 2 gun, same points as now.

Heavy 2 for 160 points that ignores cover? Most of this is good, but this is OTT.

evilbishop wrote:Company Command Squad: Creed gets Kell thrown in for +15pts
Company Command Squad: Medic - 20pts
Company Command Squad: Bodyguards can take Combat Shields (5++) +5pts
Company Command Squad: Vox Network +25pts (whole army counts as having Vox)

The Medic still feels out of place, Feel No Pain just doesn't seem exciting with T3 models.
I'd give Body Guards two wounds instead of Combat Shields, a 5+ invuln isn't that exciting
I'd rather have Voxes have unlimited range than a Counts As.

Penal Legion: Squad size 10-30 models, 8pts/model.
Veterans: Doctrines 20pts each, third special weapon additional 10pts (hard to find that many Plasma Guns!)
Conscripts: 3pts each
Infantry Squad: Mortar/Heavy Bolter +5pts
Platoon Command: Medic - 20pts

It seems all right.

Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Dear god no. Chimeras are fine at 75 Points and maybe an auto-cannon turret at +10-15 points more.

Ogryn: 30pts each, Bone 'Ead +40pts with option for Power Weapon +10pts
Stormtroopers: 16pts each, Assault 2 18" Hot-Shot Lasguns, WS4
Stormtrooper Doctrines: 1x Re-roll Deep-strike, 1x Infiltrate + Stealth, 1x Demolitions (as per Vets)

I don't know where you're going with the Troopers, but I'd still take Veterans. They're cheaper.

Leman Russ Eradicator: AP3, 190pts, or Heavy 2 gun, same points as now.
Leman Russ Punisher: Either as is but 155pts or twin-linked Punisher at 175pts
Leman Russ Vanquisher: Co-axial Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter +10pts, AP1, 165pts base.
Basilisk: 110pts
Deathstrike: Special Rule: Can't fire T1, Fires T2 on 3+, T3 on 2+, T4 auto.

This is where I have a major problem.

With the Eradicator being unattractive at 160 Points, giving it +1 AP is suddenly 190 Points? I'd keep the AP3 and the points cost the same.

The Punisher seems ok

The Vanquisher... What did you do to my beloved Vanquisher?! You keep it at BS 3 and make it 10 Points more expensive?! Ack!!

The Basilisk needs its blind spot chopped to 12-24", not a points reduction

The Death Strike seems a bit OP for what it does, and being able to fire it on a +3 turn two is just way too easy...

KplKeegan wrote:

Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Dear god no. Chimeras are fine at 75 Points and maybe an auto-cannon turret at +10-15 points more.

Chimeras are 55 points dude. Or are you including upgrades?

KplKeegan wrote:
The Vanquisher... What did you do to my beloved Vanquisher?! You keep it at BS 3 and make it 10 Points more expensive?! Ack!!

Co-axel weapons make the main weapon twin-linked if they hit.
So if it had a co-axel storm bolter, it'd roll to hit first and if it it hit (wouldn't do any damage to tanks anyway) then you could fire the Vanquisher main weapon as twin-linked.
I'd personally like to see the option on all blast Leman Russes. It's balanced somewhat by limitting to 24" range, the range of the storm bolter, and the fact that at BS3 it's not even guarenteed to hit.

Joey wrote:
Co-axel weapons make the main weapon twin-linked if they hit.
So if it had a co-axel storm bolter, it'd roll to hit first and if it it hit (wouldn't do any damage to tanks anyway) then you could fire the Vanquisher main weapon as twin-linked.
I'd personally like to see the option on all blast Leman Russes. It's balanced somewhat by limitting to 24" range, the range of the storm bolter, and the fact that at BS3 it's not even guarenteed to hit.

The problem is that it forces a player with a Vanquisher to get up close, which defeats the point to a 72" range gun. Also, this boosts Demolishers (which are arguably the best tank the IG have (screw the executioner, I have never needed 3 or more AP 2 small blasts per turn, and even if I did I would rather just take a demolisher which is AP 2 and +3 strength in a large blast template and toss plasma sponsons on it for less. Unless you are fighting grey knights who are spamming foot slogging terminators or something it is overkill)) a lot.

Perhaps the option to take several different coaxial options, like a coaxial storm bolter, a coaxial heavy stubber for a little more, and for a lot more a coaxial autocannon (some real life tanks have done it, don't see why IG tanks can't, especially when you would be wasting your tank if you were using it to gun down transports). Thus it allows some versatility, one can give their demolishers coaxial storm bolters since they don't need the range, and vanquishers coaxial autocannons so they don't have to get so close just to gun down a tank.

Eldar

Eldrad: Add alternate organization: Black Guardians. You may only take one non-Dark Reaper Aspect Warrior unit of any kind in your army, and Dark Reapers become 0-1. Guardian Defenders and Guardian Jetbikes have BS4 for +2 points, Storm Guardians have WS 4 for +2pts, War Walkers and Vypers have BS4 at +10pts, Falcons and Wave Serpents have BS4 at +20pts. Eldrad himself costs +15pts.

Yriel: Add alternate organization: Spirit Host. All Warlocks must take the Spiritseer power, Wraithguard are 1+, all living Eldar units are 0-2.

Additional special characters: Give Biel-Tan a special HQ (either Macha or a unique Autarch), who makes Dire Avengers 1+ and boost Aspect Warrior units within a small radius. Give Alaitoc a special HQ who can pick his targets with a sniper rifle in a manner similar to a Vindicare Assassin. Bring back Nuadhu Fireheart for Saim-Hann who limits your ability to take foot units while upgrading Vypers and Guardian Jetbikes in a similar manner to Eldrad's boosts.

Phoenix Lords: Their Aspect becomes 1+. Everyone but Asurmen gets the ability to make their Aspect scoring. 4+ Invulnerable saves for everyone. Asurmen's points cost remains the same since none of this actually does anything to him, everyone else is increased in cost by 20-30pts.

Autarchs: Give them something resembling the GK Grand Master's Grand Strategy rule, but make them closer to 100pts base.

Warlocks: Add the Bonesinger power (works identically to Blessing of the Omnissiah, but is modified only by the number of Bonesingers in a unit) for 10pts. Spiritseers are now +15pts, but increase the Initiative and Attacks of all Wraith units within 6" by one (note that this doesn't stack with each other). Witchblades wound on 4+, but are power weapons; Singing Spears cost 5pts, wound on 4+, count as S9 against tanks, and are power weapons.

Wraithguard: 5-model squads in Wave Serpents count as Troops in addition to 10-model squads. Give them a plastic box.

Guardian Jetbikes: Add the option to upgrade to Storm Guardian Jetbikes for +3pts a model, adding a pistol and close combat weapon. Storm Guardian Jetbikes can take one fusion gun or flamer per three models for +10pts instead of shuriken cannons.

Rangers: Make them work more like they do in Dawn of War 2, give them one sergeant with a sniper rifle escorted by a number of shuriken-catapult-equipped regular guys. The sergeant can pick his target out from a unit in a similar manner to a Vindicare Assassin. Probably cheapen regular guys to 15pts and make the sergeant 40-50pts to compensate, squad size is 3-5.

Tanks: Night Spinner, Firestorm, and Warp Hunter should be added to the regular Codex. Turret upgrade bitz packs should be released so you can make them without having to pay the exorbitant price of a Forge World model.

DarknessEternal wrote:One thread for everyone's ideas on every codex is not going to be a very good thread. Consider renaming this thread to "my IG desires".

True... too late now though!

KplKeegan wrote:
The Medic still feels out of place, Feel No Pain just doesn't seem exciting with T3 models.
I'd give Body Guards two wounds instead of Combat Shields, a 5+ invuln isn't that exciting
I'd rather have Voxes have unlimited range than a Counts As.

All good points, but i'd rather not remove anything from the codex, just tweak it a bit.
Vox as unlimited range seems to be popular.
The 5++ shield is more of a flavour add than giving any real game-changing benefit. You might get lucky and save the odd lascannon shot or Power Weapon wound aimed at your CO. I like the idea of Arbites-style conversions in the CCS...

KplKeegan wrote:

evilbishop wrote:Chimera: 60pts, Autocannon turret +5pts

Dear god no. Chimeras are fine at 75 Points and maybe an auto-cannon turret at +10-15 points more.

75pts + weapon is too much IMO. 120pts in the last codex for essentially the same setup as now was definately too much.
Guard should be able to field a ton of transports... maybe 70pts including the AC turret. Or just naff-off the turret altogether.

KplKeegan wrote:

evilbishop wrote:
Stormtroopers: 16pts each, Assault 2 18" Hot-Shot Lasguns, WS4
Stormtrooper Doctrines: 1x Re-roll Deep-strike, 1x Infiltrate + Stealth, 1x Demolitions (as per Vets)

I don't know where you're going with the Troopers, but I'd still take Veterans. They're cheaper.

Flexibility. Veterans are cheaper & scoring, but the better stats on the gun + WS for melee should see them be more useful for getting in the enemy backfield and doing some damage against a wider variety of targets, not just double-melta suicide. Being able to double-tap AP3 then charge with 3A would increase their killing power against small squads like Dev's.

KplKeegan wrote:

evilbishop wrote:Leman Russ Eradicator: AP3, 190pts, or Heavy 2 gun, same points as now.
Leman Russ Punisher: Either as is but 155pts or twin-linked Punisher at 175pts
Leman Russ Vanquisher: Co-axial Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter +10pts, AP1, 165pts base.
Basilisk: 110pts
Deathstrike: Special Rule: Can't fire T1, Fires T2 on 3+, T3 on 2+, T4 auto.

This is where I have a major problem.

With the Eradicator being unattractive at 160 Points, giving it +1 AP is suddenly 190 Points? I'd keep the AP3 and the points cost the same.

The Punisher seems ok

The Vanquisher... What did you do to my beloved Vanquisher?! You keep it at BS 3 and make it 10 Points more expensive?! Ack!!

The Basilisk needs its blind spot chopped to 12-24", not a points reduction

The Death Strike seems a bit OP for what it does, and being able to fire it on a +3 turn two is just way too easy...

Would you really ever take the standard Russ (or Colossus, for that matter), if for 10pts more you could ignore cover and still kill MEQs on a 2+? I don't think so. Having 72" range is nice, but not really needed for the Guard, where everyone tends to bum-rush you anyway. Maybe somewhere in between? 175pts?

Did you miss the part in the Vanquisher where it's now AP1? I think you may have...

Basilisk should have a large min-range, although 24" does seem reasonable. If that went down, points to stay as they are, as you rightly say. As it currently stands, you have to put them in harm's way to get any decent firing out of them, and they are glass cannons and not terribly effective due to cover save when firing direct. I liked them previously at 100pts + 25pt upgrade for indirect fire.

Deathstrike should be Apoc only but as it's here, might as well try and tweak it. What about 4+ on Turn 2? One of the main problems with it is that usually by the time you get to fire it, the enemy has spread out or died enough to make it entirely not worth it. Maybe make it a 0-1 choice, instead of being able to take 3?

Buttons wrote:

Joey wrote:
Co-axel weapons make the main weapon twin-linked if they hit.
So if it had a co-axel storm bolter, it'd roll to hit first and if it it hit (wouldn't do any damage to tanks anyway) then you could fire the Vanquisher main weapon as twin-linked.
I'd personally like to see the option on all blast Leman Russes. It's balanced somewhat by limitting to 24" range, the range of the storm bolter, and the fact that at BS3 it's not even guarenteed to hit.

The problem is that it forces a player with a Vanquisher to get up close, which defeats the point to a 72" range gun. Also, this boosts Demolishers (which are arguably the best tank the IG have (screw the executioner, I have never needed 3 or more AP 2 small blasts per turn, and even if I did I would rather just take a demolisher which is AP 2 and +3 strength in a large blast template and toss plasma sponsons on it for less. Unless you are fighting grey knights who are spamming foot slogging terminators or something it is overkill)) a lot.

Perhaps the option to take several different coaxial options, like a coaxial storm bolter, a coaxial heavy stubber for a little more, and for a lot more a coaxial autocannon (some real life tanks have done it, don't see why IG tanks can't, especially when you would be wasting your tank if you were using it to gun down transports). Thus it allows some versatility, one can give their demolishers coaxial storm bolters since they don't need the range, and vanquishers coaxial autocannons so they don't have to get so close just to gun down a tank.

Love the idea of co-ax autocannon.

RE: Co-ax stubber/bolter... yes it's much shorter ranged than the main cannon, but there will be relatively few times you will get to shoot at a vehicle that's over 36" away, as most armies tend to come towards Imperial Guard, maybe Spearhead deployment? Also, if something is close, you really want it dead before it hits your lines, co-ax gives you a better chance of this happening.

I play with a fair amount of BLOS terrain as well, which really limits firing lanes to sub 36".

I would only give the option to Vanquishers however, and it's only because it's a 1-shot weapon with no blast. The other tanks don'd need twin-linking on their main guns, they have large blasts.

evilbishop wrote:Did you miss the part in the Vanquisher where it's now AP1? I think you may have...

As a staunch user of the Vanquisher, I did take the AP1 into account, however, I believe keeping it at 155 with the AP1 round and giving it the option of taking a co-axial Auto Cannon for 5-10 points is a far better fit.

evilbishop wrote:Would you really ever take the standard Russ (or Colossus, for that matter), if for 10pts more you could ignore cover and still kill MEQs on a 2+? I don't think so. Having 72" range is nice, but not really needed for the Guard, where everyone tends to bum-rush you anyway. Maybe somewhere in between? 175pts?

Outside of the AP3, the Eradicator has:

A) Shorter Range
B) Lack of ID on Toughness 4 units
C) Requires LoS (In case of the Colossus)
D) Not Ordnance

So yes, it should stay the same in points and be able to contend with the Battle Cannon, because you trade some significant advantages with a Strength 8, Ordnance, AP3 Large Blast at 72"...

KplKeegan wrote:

evilbishop wrote:Did you miss the part in the Vanquisher where it's now AP1? I think you may have...

As a staunch user of the Vanquisher, I did take the AP1 into account, however, I believe keeping it at 155 with the AP1 round and giving it the option of taking a co-axial Auto Cannon for 5-10 points is a far better fit.

A co-ax autocannon vanquisher with AP1 is easily worth 175pts. That's very reliable anti-tank up to 48" on an AV14/13 tank that still has a hull weapon to boot. A co-ax stormbolter/stubber variant would be 160-165 due to the range restriction of the co-ax weapon.

TBH I would probably cost the Vanquisher like this

Base Cost: 155 (with AP 1)
Storm Bolter Coaxial: 10 Points
Heavy Stubber Coaxial: 15 Points (36" range vs. 24" range)
Autocannon Coaxial: 20 Points (48" range vs. 36" range)

Thus you are paying 155 for an AP 1 Vanquisher and give it a coaxial weapon for 10 points. For every 12 inches the coaxial range is extended you tack 5 more points onto the cost.

Thus a Vanquisher with a 48" accurate range (75% chance of a hit if the autocannon hits) will cost a good bit, but will be accurate and depending on the target the autocannon may do something. Besides, lots of people use executioners, and those cost 190 base, 230 if for some stupid reason you want to toss in plasma sponsons.