Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Models with Machina Malefica can’t regain wounds by any means other than inflicting wounds in close combat.

This looks like it can't get healed by anything except this ability, but I thought I read somewhere it was turn based. I'm probably confusing this rule with another model's similar rule.

Looking for suggestions on my 2k alpha legion list, against some real competitive guys so want to at least put up a fight.
Planning on fielding: batallion:
Lord W jumppack
Sorcerer w jumppack
40 cultists
2x12 cultists
10 noise marines
Patrol:
Bloodmaster
30 bloodletters
Heavy detachment (can't remember name):
Lord w jumppack
2x3 oblits
Havocs w heavy bolters
Havocs w lascannons (and some extra bodies)

Have about 230pts left for something really nasty that I can deploy at start of the game, could anyone help with suggestions?
Thanks!

How about a sicaran? You'll run up against flyer -hit stuff I'm sure.

the.cobb wrote:

the.cobb wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Ive been battlescribing some lists with it, as an alternative to a predator and a rhino in a Night Lords army, but that's mainly because of the Accursed Phylactery being a Ld rebuff and with a relatively wide reach as well. Which could be a lot of fun when combined with -3ld from NL, -1 from raptors, -1 from IoD and -2ld from butcher cannons for a potential -8ld total; just have to kill one or 2 and watch even ld9 melt. But I don't think these lists are 'competitive' and I haven't trialed them yet.

I'm also not certain the Butchers Cannon debuff stacks with the others though...

So spartan is better? For non NL I mean

Yeah I think it might be, except the for eating 1/6 of the models in it, and being a LoW, as you said. More wounds and firepower and transport capacity for not much more points.

Having 1/6 of the beserkers/NMs inside would hurt a bit; could be fun with NMs though if they get to shoot as they die.

This is not how the rule works:

In the Belly of the Beast: At the end of any Movement phase in which one or more units disembarks from a Hellforged Spartan, roll a D6. On the roll of a ‘1’, one model from a disembarking unit, chosen by the controlling player, is slain. The number of models removed due to the effects of this rule are counted as slain models for the Spartan’s Machina Malifica ability at the end of the turn.

Roll one dice. If it’s a 1, one model, of your choice, amongst the 25 models in the four separate units that disembarked this turn, gets eaten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you’re carrying 20 zerks, a DA and an EC, and a nearby cultist screen gets shot down to one man, just run that survivor inside. They can be the one that gets sacrificed when you come to disembark if you’re worried about losing a Berzerker

I’ve got my first ever 40k tournament next weekend, 1250 points no LoW or named Characters, and I was thinking about running this list.

Iron Warriors Battalion

Warpsmith with Combi-Bolter and mon
Lord with Power axe and Combi-Bolter

4 Squads of 10 cultists

Defiler stock with mon

Deredeo with butcher cannon and havoc Launcher

Renegade and heretics Spearhead

Commander

Stalker marauders with 2 sniper rifles and 1 Boltgun

Medusa
Colossus bombard
Leman Russ executioner with Plasma sponsons

What do you guys think

Hey my dudes, you guys have been a big help with finalising my first chaos list. I've been slowly building it up. (I told myself id finish painting what I've got before buyimg any more models. Yeah right!). Anyway, an idea has been itching the back of my brain and I thought I'd ask how you would minimise the obvious flaws / maximise its effectiveness.
I like the idea of brining a single squad of each of the main 4 cult marines. I'm sick of building and painting dozens and dozens of cultists. The hobby and gaming variety Id get from bringing one of each seems to scratch that itch.

So if you were building a list with the criteria of having one of each of the 4 cults, how would you make it work? Ive read enough of dakka to have a good idea on roughly how i should equip them. But how would you build a list around this to minimise the drawbacks of lack of synergy etc? Any advice on, tactically, how i could maximise thier potential?

I haven't run the numbers yet, but this is roughly what i'm thinking. It' pretty basic.

Alpha legion elite detatchment.
DP
Rubrics
Plague marines
Noise marines
Bezerkers

Black legion battalion
Abby
Sorc
3x cultists
2x obliterators

The Abby + cultist CP farm will provide enough points to infiltrate what i need to, situation depending. There'd be a good mix of special and heavy weapons. Decent CC from Abby, DP and bezerkers. No high T armour so lascannons are wasted. I know a single infiltrated bezerker squad will probably get squished asap. I could bring a rhino, but having a single vehicle doesn't seem like a good move.

Anyway, I'm rambling again. Any ideas would be welcome. Cheers.

 lindsay40k wrote:

This is not how the rule works:

In the Belly of the Beast: At the end of any Movement phase in which one or more units disembarks from a Hellforged Spartan, roll a D6. On the roll of a ‘1’, one model from a disembarking unit, chosen by the controlling player, is slain. The number of models removed due to the effects of this rule are counted as slain models for the Spartan’s Machina Malifica ability at the end of the turn.

Roll one dice. If it’s a 1, one model, of your choice, amongst the 25 models in the four separate units that disembarked this turn, gets eaten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you’re carrying 20 zerks, a DA and an EC, and a nearby cultist screen gets shot down to one man, just run that survivor inside. They can be the one that gets sacrificed when you come to disembark if you’re worried about losing a Berzerker

Thanks, I'm glad someone is actually reading the rules. I skimmed it and assumed it was the same as the rules for destroyed transports... :/

I'll be a bit more careful before throwing my opinions around in the future.

What's the best weapon load out for a Chaos Storm Eagle?

orkswubwub wrote:

Dactylartha wrote:
Orkswubwub - why not give the storm eagle a 5++ with Weaver?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nature's Minister wrote:
Can dread be healed by warpsmith? I thought only by eating people in melee

Can't be healed by smith IF it ate people in melee. Either/or

This was my understanding as well but now that I am rereading it not so sure. Is this interpretation the consensus?

The wording changed a while ago. It only heals by killing things in close combat. Warpsmiths cannot heal units with this rule.

 King Pyrrhus wrote:

What's the best weapon load out for a Chaos Storm Eagle?

Interested as well. I'm building mine with lascannon (glued) and probably autocannon (if I don't magnetize). I see people with multi melta but that's so dang expensive.

Dactylartha wrote:

 King Pyrrhus wrote:

What's the best weapon load out for a Chaos Storm Eagle?

Interested as well. I'm building mine with lascannon (glued) and probably autocannon (if I don't magnetize). I see people with multi melta but that's so dang expensive.

Are we talking competitive? It isn't really used. In terms of "best" loadout - Its already a juicy target at almost 300 points so I feel putting lascannons makes it more of an all in one basket choice. Prefer to run it light (it still has a lot of dakka) and if opponent shoots at it at least still shooting into a -1 to hit unit. A serious army of dark reaps will sink it in one turn guaranteed practically with guide. Ultimately it depends what kind of environment you are using it in and who your opponent is but I would say cheap and dirty is the best bet considering there is no invul save built in.

orkswubwub wrote:

Dactylartha wrote:

 King Pyrrhus wrote:

What's the best weapon load out for a Chaos Storm Eagle?

Interested as well. I'm building mine with lascannon (glued) and probably autocannon (if I don't magnetize). I see people with multi melta but that's so dang expensive.

Are we talking competitive? It isn't really used. In terms of "best" loadout - Its already a juicy target at almost 300 points so I feel putting lascannons makes it more of an all in one basket choice. Prefer to run it light (it still has a lot of dakka) and if opponent shoots at it at least still shooting into a -1 to hit unit. A serious army of dark reaps will sink it in one turn guaranteed practically with guide. Ultimately it depends what kind of environment you are using it in and who your opponent is but I would say cheap and dirty is the best bet considering there is no invul save built in.

That's a good tip, but I've already glued in my lascannons as my army inventory was severely lacking any (and i try to play wysiwyg when I can)

On the heavy bolter or autocannon or melta or missiles?

Biker Outriders with 3 x 3 flamers; Black Legion, or renegades?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Biker Outriders with 3 x 3 flamers; Black Legion, or renegades?

Black Legion nets you an extra 6 shots per unit at 24", hitting on a 4+.

Renegades nets you an extra 3 (6? Do they get chainswords?) attacks in melee, hitting on a 3+. Also lets you tie things down in combat.

I'd lean Renegades, since you're close anyway.

For what you want, Renegades would probably be best overall.

Here is what you are looking at.
Black Legion will let you fire your Combi Bolters after advancing, which if you advance into flamer range is a LOT of extra shots. Remember, models can fire all of their non pistol weapons.

So at 12 inches a Black Legion squad will be giving you 12 bolter shots hitting on a 4+ from the bikes, 2 bolter shots hitting on a 5+ from the combi bolter on the champ, and 3d6 flamer shots. As compared to an advancing Renegade Bike Squad which is limited to the 3d6 flamers on the turn you advanced. The question is how much you value those extra 14 bolter shots over being able to charge.

the big benefit of Renegades is it lets you advance and charge which makes the bikers more reliable for tying up shooting squads to prevent them from firing. This tactical edge is great when it comes up, or you need just a couple extra inches to make a tight charge. It also gives you an incredible threat range when paired with warptime since you can advance both times, and Bikers are guaranteed the 6 inch advance.

Finally, bikers are fast as it is, and often won't even need to advance to get into range. In these cases the Renegade and Black Legion traits are both wasted.

So which legion trait works best for Raptors? I haven't painted mine yet, so I'm leaning towards Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, or Night Lords. I use one unit with plasma, one unit melta, one unit plasma pistols. Iron Warriors trait does come in handy since I play against gun line Marines fairly often, AL is always good for durability and Forward Operative melta guns, and Night Lords are just my favorite Legion.

Nurgle Night Lord Raptors with an Icon of Despair are amazing, until you get brickwalled by something like Tyranids or Orks that ignore all your morale shenanigans. They definitely need a punchy weapon on the champion because those regular attacks aren’t doing much. Nurgle Night Lords with a Jump Pack Sorcerer also gets you potential -2 to hit units, which ups their survivability a bit.

Ld debuffs are definitely gimmicks. A hybrid list that has Ld attacks like that Slaanesh spell has potential, but most of the time when your elaborate setup even has a valid target, at best it'll just make your opponent burn 2CP. Treat the debuffs as a nice bonus that adds pressure to your opponent, but don't build an army around it.

Just to be clear my fellow DakkaDeciples...

I can't include a CSM detatchent in an army with an Astra Militarum detatchment can I?

even though a renegade tank company is giving me a massive boner right now XD

 Davidian wrote:
Just to be clear my fellow DakkaDeciples...

I can't include a CSM detatchent in an army with an Astra Militarum detatchment can I?

even though a renegade tank company is giving me a massive boner right now XD

Forgeworld has Renegades and Heretics.

But yeah, you're right.

yeah, I _have_ to take a commander at least in that case :( no renegade tank commanders for us

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So which legion trait works best for Raptors? I haven't painted mine yet, so I'm leaning towards Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, or Night Lords. I use one unit with plasma, one unit melta, one unit plasma pistols. Iron Warriors trait does come in handy since I play against gun line Marines fairly often, AL is always good for durability and Forward Operative melta guns, and Night Lords are just my favorite Legion.

i'd go world eaters for the +1 attack or renegades for the advance and assault

I think Raptors are best as a shooting unit. 5 guys, 2 specials and a matching combi weapon on the champ (or 2 plasma pistols if you want to get cute). Keeps the squad cheap, they can arrive from Deep Strike and rapid fire some plasma into whatever you like. Since the special weapons replace your chain sword, and you don't have enough attacks even with Chainswords building these guys for cc is a waste.

As others have said, Nightlords with Mark of Nurgle is great as they can potentially provide a -3 leadership buff.

Iron Warriors is solid for ignore cover. If you drop in and light up some marines in cover- they will only get a 6+ save. Half as good as a 5+ they'd get from cover normally.

While not flashy Word Bearers allows you to re roll moral which can be the difference between losing a plasma gun to a bad roll. Even with only 1 or two models left alive you can still threaten things in rapid fire range.

All in all Raptors are a fantastic deep strike special weapon delivery platform, but they sadly don't really have the stats to play an effective melee role compared to other units in the codex. So keep em cheap, load up on special weapons. And deep strike em where it will hurt.

Anyone ever tried two lord of wars superheavies list before? Like say a double Lord of skulls list? Its putting a lot of eggs into one basket, but it sounds kinda fun.

I mean, cultists are cheap, so its not like we can't run lots of cultists for bodies if we really want to even if we have two Lord of Skulls!


Anyway, using the models I do have because I don't have two Lord of skulls. Here's a list with two super heavies.

World Eaters.

Lord of skulls, hades gatling cannon, Ichor cannon - 607
Renegade Knight, stormspur rocket pod, avenger gatling, rapid battle cannon - 585

1 Chaos lord w murder sword, combi bolter - 80
1 Dark Apostle w power maul, combi bolter - 78

3 Rhinos with double combi bolters - 216

2 squads of 5 chain axe berzerkers, Champ power axe, combi bolter - 182

1 squad of 7 chain axe berzerkeers, Champ power, combi bolter - 125

1 squad of 7 chain axe berzerkeers, Champ power, combi bolter - 125

So, basically, w squads of zerkers in one Rhino. the other two has a squad of 7 and 1 HQ.

Everything drives up the field in 3 Rhinos and 2 LOW. Round 2, the zerkers will unload and go to town. There is actually some shooting too, because there are quite a lot of combi bolters in there on the Rhinos and in the hands of the champions and the HQs.

If I want to play sort of more tactical, I can unload two squads first to clear chaff along with all the combi bolter shooting. And the the characters and the other two squads will unload in the round after when hopefully the chaff has been cleared.

Bear in mind they also have two massive super heavies bearing down on them, and those two super heavies will be shooting and charging into combat too. So, this isn't going to be charge into fodder and then get shot up. It looks kinda thematic. What do you think?

 Davidian wrote:
yeah, I _have_ to take a commander at least in that case :( no renegade tank commanders for us

The renegade commander is less than the cost of two Chaos Marines though, and while he doesn’t buff anything at all, you can park him on an objective and he’ll probably just be ignored.

Totally worth it for IG tanks IMO

I think you're better off taking a primarch than a knight. LoS spamming the strategem could be good though.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Anyone ever tried two lord of wars superheavies list before? Like say a double Lord of skulls list? Its putting a lot of eggs into one basket, but it sounds kinda fun.

I mean, cultists are cheap, so its not like we can't run lots of cultists for bodies if we really want to even if we have two Lord of Skulls!


Anyway, using the models I do have because I don't have two Lord of skulls. Here's a list with two super heavies.

World Eaters.

Lord of skulls, hades gatling cannon, Ichor cannon - 607
Renegade Knight, stormspur rocket pod, avenger gatling, rapid battle cannon - 585

1 Chaos lord w murder sword, combi bolter - 80
1 Dark Apostle w power maul, combi bolter - 78

3 Rhinos with double combi bolters - 216

2 squads of 5 chain axe berzerkers, Champ power axe, combi bolter - 182

1 squad of 7 chain axe berzerkeers, Champ power, combi bolter - 125

1 squad of 7 chain axe berzerkeers, Champ power, combi bolter - 125

So, basically, w squads of zerkers in one Rhino. the other two has a squad of 7 and 1 HQ.

Everything drives up the field in 3 Rhinos and 2 LOW. Round 2, the zerkers will unload and go to town. There is actually some shooting too, because there are quite a lot of combi bolters in there on the Rhinos and in the hands of the champions and the HQs.

If I want to play sort of more tactical, I can unload two squads first to clear chaff along with all the combi bolter shooting. And the the characters and the other two squads will unload in the round after when hopefully the chaff has been cleared.

Bear in mind they also have two massive super heavies bearing down on them, and those two super heavies will be shooting and charging into combat too. So, this isn't going to be charge into fodder and then get shot up. It looks kinda thematic. What do you think?

With the new faciton keywords is it still legal to run a renegade knight like this with berzerkers?

Should be fine, what's the issue? >_< I got one batallion detachment and two super heavy auxiliary detachments. So, its three detachments total. Surely there is nothing wrong with a renegade knight fighting alongside a CSM army? They won't be able to cross use any strategems across detachments, but it should be fine using strategems within the faction of that detachment right? (Not that the renegade knight has any faction strategems it can use).

Opps, maybe I didn't label it very well, but renegade knight will belong to renegade knight faction and not world eaters.

Back once again with the Remegade Commander?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Should be fine, what's the issue? >_< I got one batallion detachment and two super heavy auxiliary detachments. So, its three detachments total. Surely there is nothing wrong with a renegade knight fighting alongside a CSM army? They won't be able to cross use any strategems across detachments, but it should be fine using strategems within the faction of that detachment right? (Not that the renegade knight has any faction strategems it can use).

Opps, maybe I didn't label it very well, but renegade knight will belong to renegade knight faction and not world eaters.

Maybe I am only looking at battlescribe but since chaos doesn't link armies anymore it is going to be either heretic astartes or faction keyword, which renegade knight lacks both?