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Hiya everyone! Posted below is a list I have been tinkering with. Any suggestions?
HQ
Flyrant 275
AG
TS
Wings
Hive Commander
Paroxysm, Psychic Scream

TROOP
30 x Termagant Brood 150

30 x Termagant Brood 150

Tervigon 200
AG
TS
Scything Talons
Catalyst

Tervigon 200
AG
TS
Scything Talons
Catalyst

16 x Genestealer Brood 360
AG
TS
Mycetic Spore

HEAVY
Trygon 220
AG
TS

Trygon 220
AG
TS

ELITE
3 x Zoanthrope Broad 220
Mycetic Spore

Total List = 1995

Please post idea's or changes you may suggest.. Thank you!

Cheers!
Catalyst

Can't say it's a bad list, looks pretty good, I'd like some Hive Guard in there though to pop some transports, or maybe split the thropes and try to get 2 units of 2, they can only fire at 1 target whilst in a unit so it wastes their S10 Lance Shots

Thanks for the advice keep it coming =)

Another Thing, I'd drop the Toxin Sacs on the Flyrant, as I'd rather wound T3-4 enemies on a 2+ rather than a 4+ with a re-roll which is what poisoned does

Still toying... New list with some suggestions taken into account.

HQ
Flyrant 265
Paroxysm, Psychic Scream
Wings
Hive Commander
AG

TROOP
20x Termagant Brood 100

20x Termagant Brood 100

Tervigon 195
Catalyst
AG
TS

Tervigon 195
Catalyst
AG
TS

17x Genestealer Brood 238

HEAVY

Trygon 210
AG

Trygon 210
AG

ELITES
10x Ymgarl Genestealer Brood 230

2x Zoanthrope Brood 120

The Doom of Malan'tai 130
Mycetic Spore

List total=1993

I took some advice and dropped the TS from some units. I than used those points plus some points from dropping 10 Gaunts from each of my packs to add the Ymgarl Stealers. I than dropped one spore and a Zoanthrope to add the Doom of Malan'tai and one more Genestealer.

So the idea would be to footslog most of the army and than use the Doom of Malan'tai to Kamakazi and cause as much trouble for the enemy as he can for his 130 points. While that madness is occurring I can outflank with a Tervigon and use the Genestealers as back up to make up a strong flanking force. The Trygons will either footslog it with the other Tervigon, Flyrant, Zoanthropes and my two packs of Gaunts or they can deep strike if I see fit.

Over all I think this list has a lot of potential but as I haven't play tested it yet I'm always concerned I'm not taking other people's lists into account. So please keep the ideas coming.

Thanks,

Cheers

I wouldn't see Ymgarl are that worth it, I'd suggest dropping them and having maybe 3 squads of 8-10 Standard Genestealers which are suffice, they do a lot of damage to units in cc but not too much to mean that you will be out in the open next turn!

I don't think Psychic Scream is too worth it, Way things go now is that most Infantry are either LD9 or Fearless due to a bubble etc so not much will run away I'd go for the S3 AP2 power as that can help recover wounds.

Okay lets try this set up

HQ
Flyrant 265
Paroxysm, Leech Essence
Wings
Hive Commander
AG

TROOP
20x Termagant Brood 100

20x Termagant Brood 100

Tervigon 195
Catalyst
AG
TS

Tervigon 195
Catalyst
AG
TS

10x Genestealer Brood 140

10x Genestealer Brood 140

HEAVY
Trygon Prime 250
AG

Trygon 210
AG

ELITES
2x Zoanthrope Brood 120

3x Hive Guard Brood 150

The Doom of Malan'tai 130
Mycetic Spore

Total: 1995

Eh?

looking better, I don't have the Nid dex on hand atm but you could drop the sacs from each tervigon and maybe upgrade to a prime on the other Trygon?

One thing to watch for, if you outflank your tervigon like you had mentioned, then he cant spawn gaunts the turn he comes in. Just make sure the tervigon doesnt get punked because there is no screen to protect him from a nasty assault unit

Don't see much reason to upgrade both to trygon to prime. I would actually consider de-priming the one you have.

I find Ymgrals to be a very useful threat. The simple fact they make all terrain a charge risk, until they actually pop up. Getting to choose +1S, +1T, or +1 Attack each assault is very nice. I like the look when you drop 10 Ymgral on a charge for 40 attacks.

I'd keep TS on the Tervigons because they give it to the gants, just like AG....so on the charge, gants within range wound T4 on a 4+ and re-roll fails, and wound on a 4+ period otherwise.

I think that one of the best use of points in a Tyranid list is TS on genestealers. Vs. MEQ....or anything T4 or less, they reroll fails....which means even more rends!

Brother Taurinus wrote:I'd keep TS on the Tervigons because they give it to the gants, just like AG....so on the charge, gants within range wound T4 on a 4+ and re-roll fails, and wound on a 4+ period otherwise.

I think that one of the best use of points in a Tyranid list is TS on genestealers. Vs. MEQ....or anything T4 or less, they reroll fails....which means even more rends!

Yeah i mssed tat out TS is worth it on the tervies but make sure it's not on the other monsters as it's just a disadvantage.

Venomthropes would be fun, they could provide a bubble for your infantry and monsters and help keep them alive and give them a boost when the enemy has to take dangerous when they assault.

Agreed.....not on MC's except Tervigons.


Personally, I need to try out venomthropes.

Let me see if I have your plan down...

OnFoot:
Flyrant 265
Paroxysm, Leech Essence
Wings
Hive Commander
AG

20x Termagant Brood 100

20x Termagant Brood 100

Tervigon 195
Catalyst
AG
TS

2x Zoanthrope Brood 120

3x Hive Guard Brood 150

Infiltrating:
10x Genestealer Brood 140

10x Genestealer Brood 140

DEEP STRIKING:
The Doom of Malan'tai

Trygon Prime

Trygon

OUTFLANKING:
Tervigon


Now not that it looks bad, it just looks a little incoherent
You have doom, a flying tyrant, and an outflanking tervi providing synapse and you dont have any raveners or other bugs that really require it I'd pull the prime from both trygons to save points:

You have two big squads of termi's but its not a footslogging list, the primary function of it seems to be to be to shore up the enemy until turn 2 when all the pain arrives, Since you are outflanking one termi, thats one less bullet screen to worry about, consider dropping one of the units down to minimium or nea rminimium and giving them devourers so you can maintain some close fire support for your tervi as he stomps up the board. Another option may be to drop one squad and just take the foot tervi as a HQ, you lose one scoring unit, but he still poops out scoring units

Zoans are a bit iffy, you are dropping 3 hammers on your opponent and you have stealers to deal with anything smaller than a land raider, i'd drop them OR give your foot tervigon onslaught so just incase the situation provides itself you can move, run, then shoot the zoans to really reach out and tag some poor vehicle. really zoans have a great use in providing big bugs a cover save, but you are a deep striking army, you don't need one.

Now with those saved points, what to do?
-toxin sacs on stealers, maybe more stealers
-gargoyles, they are OP considering their cost, and provide pressure to take some heat off the stealers on the turn 1-2 opening before your hammers deep strike in, incase the stealers get wiped they provide CC support on turn 2-3 so your hammers dont get focused down by long fangs and nonsense.
-if you end up wanting to do something funky, replace zoans with yargarbl stealers

Ok you are not going to like a lot of my suggestions at first glance.

Flyrant = = needs to go

He is the only thing that can fly, and thus either that movement (and thus the 60 points) will be wasted staying within feel no pain range. or he will end up overextended and dead.

If you take out the flyrant and 2 trygons you are sitting on 710 points. That is a huge chunk of your points. I agree that they are very killy and can be great. but in competitive environments you tend to see tons of meltas and rockets and they really end trygons.

With some of those points take more gene stealers and move your tervigons into HQ slots. (to free up the troops slots) so lets say 2 more units of 10.

Now I am going to get even more radical and most likely hated upon. Drop those trygons. I love trygons (sound bipolar don't I) but in this case you got 2 tervigons. you do not want a large number of points tied up in non scoring units. The tervigons are actually great for killing tanks.

Now you have 40 gene stealers infiltrating that is a potent force. seriously potent.

you also still have 480 points.

so get 3x more hive guard. that's 150 points you still have 400 points left (including the following). sadly to take the hive guard you have to drop either the doom ( which i would be hesitant) or the 2 zoanthropes (which for now I am going to take out for points, you can always fiddle with that ). Now the reason you want more hive guard is they are really good at popping transports, then your gene stealers can eat the guys inside. and they will. if you run across a lot of AV 14 take the zoans and take 3. if not just take more hive guard.

you are sitting on 400 points. bump all the genestealer units to 15x now you have 60 stealers on the table. 60 is a huge number of wounds to do on turn 1 and 2. as they have fleet you are pretty well guaranteed to charge with those 2 turns. you have 120 points left.

Just for fun I think you should drop the termagant squads down to 15x each, cause then you can have one of your trygons back! now you are 5 points over. I drop a termiguant and call it a nice list.

The List as I have revised for min/max

HQ
Tervigon 295
AG
TS
catylist

Tervigon 195
AG
TS
Catylist

Troops
Genestealers x 15 210
Genestealers x 15 210
Genestealers x 15 210
Genestealers x 15 210

Termigants x 14 70
Termigants x 15 75

Elites
Hive Guard x3 150
Hive Guard x3 150
Zoanthropes x2 120

Heavy support
Trygon 200


Now tactics.

Infiltrate all the stealers. use the tervigons to take objectives and hand out feel no pain to gene stealers that are out of combat. take the stealers and hop from cover to cover.

the trygon is a distraction. make people scared of him and use him to keep your tervigons alive longer.

This list is very competitive and you should not use it in just for fun games. as it will be none for the other person. you are in there face with 60 stealers round 1. that's tough to deal with even with armies like long fang spam and things like that.

Single trygon will die. Don't run that - two or not at all at 2k.

ruminator wrote:Single trygon will die. Don't run that - two or not at all at 2k.

Will it?

There are 60 gene stealers that will take shooting priority, I think that if he feel no pains it, It will either attract all the fire, and he will win cause of stealers, or it wont get shot cause of stealers and he will still win.

I personally prefer none at all in this list, BUT I did say just for fun!

This list is based off a NOVA GT based list that finished 4th, who says nids can't be competitive!

Dont get me wrong, thrawns list is strong, genestealer shock, all infiltrating for first/second turn assaults is a strong army

the issue is that it was nowhere near what the original army plan was so I ignored it, lol

Grundz wrote:Dont get me wrong, thrawns list is strong, genestealer shock, all infiltrating for first/second turn assaults is a strong army

the issue is that it was nowhere near what the original army plan was so I ignored it, lol

The orginal list was good for fun games, but he is looking for a competitive list. He had a strong infiltration combat punch with little shooting.

I maximized his combat oriented tactical advantage. I went from 2 trygons to 1 I went from 3 hive guard to 6, I dump the flyrant because they are not a very good competitive unit (love the model though). To many force weapons/ rockets/meltas/powerfist/poison.

The weakness his old list had was no real anti mass transport. rendering tervigon/gaunt shooting very very useless (with a side of dead stealers as they are trying to pry open the metal boxes). It did not have enough target saturation to ensure survivability of deep striking trygons. 2 trygons should not table a good player and he needed some sort of true combat punch. If he does not have enough stealers (I don't) i would be happy to work with him on how we can get units in this list that will complement, what is quickly becoming, the ubiquitous shock units.

The list is not radically changed. I just basically dropped a trygon and a flyrant and found the points to really make it more intimidating.

I really like thrawns mods to the list. I tend to outflank more than infiltrate, but that is more I think a case of not enough terrain at the FLGS

In reality there's really only 3ish viable, "good" cookie cutter bug lists

1. lots of stealers, and some heavier backup, everything infiltrates

2. "supprise c*ckfags" bugs, being heavy infiltrators, yargarble stealers, ect and a big deathstar or swarm rolling up the middle

3. gargoyle spam with backup

basically all of them, you have to be in the enemies face, quickly and overwhelm him. bugs are a very front-heavy army, everything is dangerous in cc to some extent, but weak against shooting, if you aren't playing the right list, cover is too sparse, or any number of other factors, you'll likely get blown off the table.

as bugs remember: any army will wipe you out if you give them time, your best units are overpriced and easily taken down by the same missle launchers that sometimes struggle against chimeras

Thrawn2600 wrote:

ruminator wrote:Single trygon will die. Don't run that - two or not at all at 2k.

Will it?

There are 60 gene stealers that will take shooting priority, I think that if he feel no pains it, It will either attract all the fire, and he will win cause of stealers, or it wont get shot cause of stealers and he will still win.

I personally prefer none at all in this list, BUT I did say just for fun!

This list is based off a NOVA GT based list that finished 4th, who says nids can't be competitive!

It will attract all the high str shooting while the stealers get all the bolter fire. Problem wth big MCs is that S8/9 weapons wound on 2s and ignore armour - even with catalyst (which won't work on AP2 weapons) a 2k list can take the tyrgon out quite easily.

barnowl wrote:I really like thrawns mods to the list. I tend to outflank more than infiltrate, but that is more I think a case of not enough terrain at the FLGS

thanks!

It will attract all the high str shooting while the stealers get all the bolter fire. Problem wth big MCs is that S8/9 weapons wound on 2s and ignore armour - even with catalyst (which won't work on AP2 weapons) a 2k list can take the tyrgon out quite easily.

Exactly! I could not agree more, which is why i dropped one! The thing is you still want one to draw some fire away from the tervigons so they can be more useful. I still think that 6 wounds is a lot. He might make it into combat with 2.

those stealers will get tons of bolter fire. but on occasion you will get some first turn charges. those are always great. and besides 60 of them can take some wounds! I really think that even if you have to proxy to test the list you DEFINITALY should try it.

Please though,

MAKE YOUR INTENTIONS CLEAR!

I am a big spirit of the game person. TELL your opponent that your list is competitive and tell them to bring all the shennagins and cheese they can. after all thats what you want to be able to beat.